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Shiro
04-05-2015, 12:55 AM
Hi everyone,
I am a high toss server. I will have my palm open and the ball resting on my palm. I will then toss it up, not roll it off my fingers, and then hit the ball with spin. When i was playing, my opponent said my serve is illegal because my ball is spinning when tossed up. Wouldn't my serve be legal as it is open palmed? or is it illegal because it is spinning?

Der_Echte
04-05-2015, 01:28 AM
Here is the link from USATT web page containing a MS Word file with the Laws.

http://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_Table_Tennis/Documents/Rules/USATTRulesDec%202013-final.doc

This is the extract from the Laws concerning serving. You tell us what you think the laws of TT (in USA) say...

2.6 The Service

2.6.1 Service shall start with the ball resting freely on the open palm of the server's stationary free hand.
2.6.2 The server shall then project the ball near vertically upwards, without imparting spin, so that it rises at least 16cm after leaving the palm of the free hand and then falls without touching anything before being struck.
2.6.3 As the ball is falling the server shall strike it so that it touches first the court and then, after passing over or around the net assembly, touches directly the receiver's court; in doubles, the ball shall touch successively the right half court of server and receiver.
2.6.4 From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall be above the level of the playing surface and behind the server's end line, and it shall not be hidden from the receiver by the server or his/her doubles partner and by anything they wear or carry.
2.6.5 As soon as the ball has been projected, the server’s free arm and hand shall be removed from the space between the ball and the net.
Note: The space between the ball and the net is defined by the ball, the net and its indefinite upward extension.
2.6.6 It is the responsibility of the player to serve so that the umpire or the assistant umpire can be satisfied that s/he complies with the requirements of the law, and either may decide that a service is incorrect.
2.6.6.1 If either the umpire or the assistant umpire is not sure about the legality of a service s/he may, on the first occasion in a match, interrupt play and warn the server; but any subsequent service by that player or his/her doubles partner which is not clearly legal shall be considered incorrect.
2.6.7 Exceptionally, the umpire may relax the requirements for a good service where s/he is satisfied that compliance is prevented by the player’s physical disability.

Der_Echte
04-05-2015, 01:31 AM
Another thing to consider is if the match is being umpired or not.

If I was in a sanctioned tourney and someone had some objection to how I did (or did not) do something, then I wouldn't argue or get into a pissing contest, I would simply tell the other player I will find the referee and tourney director and ask them for an umpire to officiate the match.

UpSideDownCarl
04-05-2015, 01:49 AM
2.6.2 The server shall then project the ball near vertically upwards, without imparting spin, so that it rises at least 16cm after leaving the palm of the free hand and then falls without touching anything before being struck.

That is the pertinent rule to your question. It is against the rules to impart spin on the ball during the toss. So if you have figured out how to toss from your palm and impart spin on the toss, then that is against the rules. But how would you be imparting spin on the ball if you are tossing the ball from an open palm?

Shiro
04-05-2015, 01:54 AM
That is the pertinent rule to your question. It is against the rules to impart spin on the ball during the toss. So if you have figured out how to toss from your palm and impart spin on the toss, then that is against the rules. But how would you be imparting spin on the ball if you are tossing the ball from an open palm?

I am not sure why Carl. When looking at my palm, it is open all the way and i just toss it up? Is it possible to have just a little spin on it? To me it seems impossible to have a high toss serve and not have a little spin on it.

UpSideDownCarl
04-05-2015, 02:03 AM
I am not sure why Carl. When looking at my palm, it is open all the way and i just toss it up? Is it possible to have just a little spin on it? To me it seems impossible to have a high toss serve and not have a little spin on it.

If you are not trying to spin the ball that probably fits the rule because it is really almost impossible for there to be no spin whatsoever.

Do you know any coaches or people who referee tournament matches? If you do, you could ask them to look at your serve and tell you if it is legal.

You could also make a video and post it here and see if people think it is legal or not.

Der_Echte
04-05-2015, 05:05 AM
I am not sure why Carl. When looking at my palm, it is open all the way and i just toss it up? Is it possible to have just a little spin on it? To me it seems impossible to have a high toss serve and not have a little spin on it.

It is entirely possible for the ball to spin as a result of tossing it up, especially if you do a high toss serve. It is very difficult to stop the ball from spinning more than a few revolutions on such a high toss. This happens, because we have a hard time keeping the ball perfectly centered and stable with an OPEN palm.

It really depends on what "Imparting Spin" is interpreted by the other player objecting or an umpire (for the 5% of your sanctioned tourneys where you will have one).

Myself, if I was your opponent and your high toss serve had even ten revolutions on it, I would not object. I do not see that as your serve getting a spin advantage, the high toss will already give it a potential for high spin. I am more concerned about opponents hiding ball with body, tossing it backwards, no toss, or leaving arm out.

I can see why you are puzzled that someone is objecting to your high toss serve.

In actuality, a high toss serve is difficult to hide and is difficult for the server to time to fool an opponent, so a player objecting to a high toss serve being illegal because it has SOME spin is either a blind A-Hole, has no common sense judgment, or is too hard headed and sees things black/white without considering the entire situation. There are many of them like that out there (the last type) and in their mind, they are right and fully justified. I used to be like that, but 30 yrs in teh military drove home some practical common sense (but it took 15 yrs).