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foz
04-10-2015, 04:37 PM
Hi,
I'm just looking at ordering some 40➕ Plastics, I have played the BTY and its a big no for me, ( see my review in balls section) I have also played the DHS which I find quite comfortable, nothing special but then again did nothing particularly wrong, apart from being a little slower than a cell, but I think that looks set to be the norm for all makes, so if anyone has any recommendations for a conventional Rev rubber game style, that would be great.
Also, I've heard that of all the name/makes of new ball, there is only a few actual manufacturers making most balls being the Same! Is there any truth in this?

UpSideDownCarl
04-10-2015, 05:20 PM
Yep. All the seamed balls seem to come from a few factories. Most of them in China. I can't remember where they are.

All the seamless balls are from XSF.

The Nittaku Premium is by far the best seamed ball. None of the others compare. It is more durable and plays way better than any of the others. Not the Nittaku Sha ball. That one is from China and not so good. In my opinion all the seamed balls except the Nittaku Premium are basically junk. Even if they play okay, they break way to easily. In almost every match I have played with a seamed plastic ball, they have cracked at some point in the middle of the match. I have not seen any seamed plastic balls last more than 3 hard played matches.

The best bet is the seamless balls. They are pretty good. Almost as good as the Nittaku Premium and they are the sturdiest balls around. The durability is as good or better than the old celluloid balls. I would go with any brand of seamless 3-Star 40+ ball. Nexy sells good ones. So does Yinhe. I use the Nexy 40+.

foz
04-10-2015, 05:32 PM
Thanks USDC,
that all sounds like good advice, I will take a look at all seamless balls and take an educated guess depending on availability to UK!
Thanks again

UpSideDownCarl
04-10-2015, 05:36 PM
Thanks USDC,
that all sounds like good advice, I will take a look at all seamless balls and take an educated guess depending on availability to UK!
Thanks again

Yep. That makes sense. Since all the seamless balls are really the same ball regardless of which brand, get the one that is most available and best price for your region.

TTHopeful
04-10-2015, 10:38 PM
I have used the DHS and its pretty good. ITTF really need to sort out the ball situation! Really bad!

foz
04-10-2015, 10:52 PM
I agree, I can only find one non seamed ball in the UK , xushaofa / which I've never heard of. And why BTY balls made in China for petes sake? I'm confused with the whole situation! Ittf - what is going on, I'm not buying any more balls until this all becomes clearer with better quality stuff!

TTHopeful
04-10-2015, 11:09 PM
I agree, I can only find one non seamed ball in the UK , xushaofa / which I've never heard of. And why BTY balls made in China for petes sake? I'm confused with the whole situation! Ittf - what is going on, I'm not buying any more balls until this all becomes clearer with better quality stuff!

Yeah, I agree with you. This is really bad from ITTF. It is like if you were to buy a 'top class' football and every 1 in 3 would break easily or not perform well you would get your money back. This would simply not happen in football. Table Tennis manufacturers + ITTF must be racking in the money from the ball situation right now.

JHB
04-10-2015, 11:38 PM
Whatever else you do, buy half a dozen Xushaofa 3 star and try them out, they're not stupidly expensive and you've nothing to lose.

TareqPhoto
04-11-2015, 12:06 AM
My friend, a coach, asked me to buy stuff including poly balls, and he recommended or he chose to go with Nittaku, he asked to have 30 balls as one pack has 3 balls, so 10 packs, but the site didn't allow to have more than 5, so i ordered 5 from Nittaku, and 2 6balls-packs from DHS and 1 Yasaka of 3balls pack so he can try them all and see which is the best, but we were late about very slightly days as i saw XSF became available, so i added that one for next order, but once the first one first coming then i can order again, maybe i change my mind if i or the coach test the balls and give his review or impression about it.

the_gift
04-11-2015, 06:48 AM
As USDC said, Nittaku Premium probably the best seamed ball on the market, Tibhar poly's also in good quality. The worst seamed ball that I've played was Butterfly.
But seamless balls, it's something absolutely different, they're so fast and so bouncy, that after playing with them i can't play with rest of the plastic's, feel some kind of slow motion... :)

Tony's Table Tennis
04-11-2015, 07:50 AM
Some info on manufacturers:
China
XSF - seamless
DHS - seamed
Double Fish - seamed

Japan
Nittaku - seamed

Germany
Weener - seamed (nothing yet in the market)

So, all seamed balls made in China, are either from DHS or DF
All seamless balls in the market, are from XSF
All made in Japan balls (which there is only 1 in the market) is made by Nittaku

TT4Life
04-11-2015, 08:40 AM
Any poly ball in color yellow yet ?

foz
04-11-2015, 11:43 AM
Thanks for all your input guys, it seems there is no clear way forward atm, still waiting to hear if my two local leagues are going with or without the new ball for the forthcoming season, if it's with, I'll order some xushaofa and see how it goes. The fact that there is no sign of a yellow/orange ball just lends me to believe that we are being used as guinipigs in a test of whether this ball actually works or not! Probably ending in the ball being scrapped if the current standard is anything to go by? ��

UpSideDownCarl
04-11-2015, 01:54 PM
Thanks for all your input guys, it seems there is no clear way forward atm, still waiting to hear if my two local leagues are going with or without the new ball for the forthcoming season, if it's with, I'll order some xushaofa and see how it goes. The fact that there is no sign of a yellow/orange ball just lends me to believe that we are being used as guinipigs in a test of whether this ball actually works or not! Probably ending in the ball being scrapped if the current standard is anything to go by? ��

Lets hope because the price of the balls, and then if you factor in how easily they break, unless they are seamless, ends up meaning a lot of money for anyone really wanting to play, especially clubs.

UpSideDownCarl
04-11-2015, 02:18 PM
And people should really know that they only Nittaku ball that is made in Japan is the Premium. The Sha ball is made in one of those two factories in China.

And regardless of what people say, all the seamless balls made in China are really low quality. They bounce funny. When it bounces on the seam it gives a noticeably different bounce than when it doesn't. And they break so easily. If you or the person you are playing against has good contact and hits hard, the ball will not last more than a handful of games.

The only seamed ball worth playing with is the Nittaku ball from Japan, the Premium. But, at almost $4.00 (USD) a ball, is it really worth it? The XoaShuFa balls are not cheap either. But they definitely don't break and they play well. They are not as fast as the Celluloid balls. They do not spin as much. But they are a consistent product that is hard to break and lasts a long time and they are not as expensive as the Premium balls. They are about $2.00 per ball.

The real problem with all this is Adham Sharara. Before he mandated the plastic ball, he made a deal with XaoShufa and got them to Patent their process for making seamless balls. Then he mandated a change to plastic, SEAMLESS BALLS. Because of the patent, this would have meant that all table tennis companies wanting to manufacture and sell plastic balls would have had to either pay XSF for the patent to use the process and produce the balls themselves or simply buy the balls from XSF.

The major companies fought this and made the ITTF allow them to develop seamed Poly Balls that "met" ITTF requirements. The companies won that battle. But the whole thing stinks of dirty politics.

Part of me doesn't want to use the XSF balls because of that. But there is nothing as good or as durable. And the whole plan, in its origin, was obviously to line the pockets of XSF and Adam Sharara, rather than for any other real reason.

JHB
04-11-2015, 08:05 PM
Regardless of their quality, the Nittaku Premium 40+ balls are in fact vapourware. None have been available in Europe so far this year and there doesn't appear to be any sign of this changing - Tabletennis11 says "coming soon" but I don't know how long that's been on the site. Why Nittaku can't produce enough to be able to sell outside Japan I have no idea, but whatever it is they're keeping quiet about it.

As regards orange/yellow balls, someone recently posted a picture of a box purporting to be DHS 3-star 40+ orange but that was just one post on one site and I've seen nothing since to back it up. Who knows !!

UpSideDownCarl
04-11-2015, 11:42 PM
You are right. The Nittaku Premiums are pretty hard to find, almost non-existent. Also, same experience with yellow Poly balls.

Given the fact that it is a decently long time since the Poly balls became the international standard for World Tour play, it seems crazy how badly this is going, how bad the balls are, how much they cost, how easy they break, how unavailable the good ones are!!!!!!!

This really should be seen as a bit of a nightmare for the sport and the ITTF, and someone should wake up and smell the coffee. If they can't produce enough balls to do this and they can't make decent balls that don't just break, it really does look bad for the sport from a professional standpoint. It really does look like ITTF are dropping the ball big time on this in so many ways. This can't really be good for the sport.

Because the material is so hard, when there is a seam, which is reinforced (thicker than the rest of the ball), it causes the ball to be less well balanced and the hardness also makes it easier to split right at the seam.

How many pro matches have you seen with the plastic ball where the ball flat out cracked and they replayed the point. That never happened, that I can remember, with the celluloid balls. Even when a celluloid ball breaks, you end up playing several rallies before you realize it is broken. These poly balls just split instantly.

There is one positive I see with the Poly balls: they are so much slower that the rallies the pros are having, now that they are used to the Poly balls, are definitely more competitive and going longer than they were with the celluloid balls.


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Tony's Table Tennis
04-12-2015, 02:56 PM
I posted 40+ DHS orange balls on my facebook, maybe some of you saw it on there.
DHS has plans to release it

ITTF article did note that orange is also an official ball colour for 40+, but obviously the focus currently is on white

JHB
04-12-2015, 06:08 PM
I can't have seen it there Tony, your timeline isn't visible to non-friends.

UpSideDownCarl
04-12-2015, 06:18 PM
I do think someone posted that same photo to TTDaily as the Original Post of a thread that did not have too many comments.


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Tony's Table Tennis
04-13-2015, 10:57 PM
http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?10058-Finally-orange-poly-balls-has-been-launched!!!&highlight=orange

UpSideDownCarl
04-14-2015, 02:28 AM
There you go. It would be nice if yellow poly balls became a reality.

I wasn't playing when they did the switch from 38mm to 40mm balls.

(I played in the 70s 80s and early 90s on and off but mostly at a recreational level. In the early 90s I found a great club that I started playing at for a while and got to watch some good tournaments at the club and they were always watching videos of the Swedish and Chinese teams and some of the other great European players from that time like Gatien and Saive. But then I got a full time job and moved too far away from the club and it wasn't as important to me back then as it is now so I stopped playing from around 1992-2009. When I started again I found out about the ball size change, the speed glue ban and the change of score from 21 to 11 all at the same time. The layoff probably made handling those adjustments much easier.)

When they went from 38mm to 40mm, was it this disorganized where you couldn't buy the balls because there weren't enough produced this long after the switch? Did they have as much trouble figuring out how to make balls that were round, had a consistent bounce and did not break so easily?

Anyone out there really remember how that change went back then?


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mr. tom
04-14-2015, 07:38 AM
The impact on the availability, production,...wasn't as big as now. This isn't just a bigger ball; it's a whole new material and I suppose the production process is heavily changed. Back then the goal wasn't making a ball that would perform the same; it was supposed to be slower, easier to play,...

I do remember the change was (very!) annoying, but atleast you could buy enough balls from a good quality and I don't think there was such a big price issue as now.

Kobe02
04-14-2015, 08:03 AM
Hard hitting with a top edge seems to be the way that a lot get cracked or shatter - and this includes the seamless ones.


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Hayatott
04-14-2015, 08:38 AM
hello.

I am new here, I have one recommend is to buy on ttnpp.

I have buy 3*star double happy, good quality ball to training. butterfly is more premium for playing than training.

hope I helped you! :)

hayato

Iczy
04-15-2015, 01:52 AM
How about Palio seamless balls? Are they re-branded Xushaofa balls?
I asked because in Thailand, Palio ball is officially used in all TTAT-approved tournaments.

UpSideDownCarl
04-15-2015, 04:39 AM
How about Palio seamless balls? Are they re-branded Xushaofa balls?
I asked because in Thailand, Palio ball is officially used in all TTAT-approved tournaments.

I could be wrong, but, as far as I have been led to believe, at this point, the only seamless balls are being made by XSF.

Iczy
04-20-2015, 02:46 PM
I ordered a batch of Xushaofa and Palio 3 star ITTF-approved balls.
Bounce test of both balls are identical so the conclusion that both Palio and Xushaofa balls are from the same factory seems correct.
Next, I compared Palio and Stiga Optimum 40+ balls. The Palio ball bounced higher and longer.
Finally, I bounced Palio and Andro Speedball (celluloid). To my surprise, the bounce are nearly identical except the last bounces. The Palio ball bounced longer but marginally.

Flash Gordon
04-21-2015, 10:35 AM
the nittaku premium is very good, great bounce, good weight and its worth its money. japan know quality

mahomedy13
04-21-2015, 10:58 AM
Never read the comments above,but my experience with the Nexy poly balls is very satisfactory.I reccomend them

raazzz
04-21-2015, 06:13 PM
Never read the comments above,but my experience with the Nexy poly balls is very satisfactory.I reccomend them

How would you say the spin is compared to the celluloid ball?

Iczy
04-22-2015, 03:00 AM
More update:

Luckily, I was given some DHS poly balls which were prepared to be used in Grand Finals 2014 in Bangkok. The DHS ball's bounce characteristics is identical to Stiga Optimum 40+ ball. I think both DHS and Stiga balls are the same. Both bounces less than Palio/Xushaofa and Andro Speedball (celluloid). Makes me wonder why ITTF used seamed poly balls at all.

Tony's Table Tennis
04-22-2015, 07:40 AM
I could be wrong, but, as far as I have been led to believe, at this point, the only seamless balls are being made by XSF.

You are not wrong
This information is shared by ITTF to the world, thus is pretty much general knowledge now.
All seamless ball is from the same and only factory in the world - thus there is no difference at all - or at least for now

Tony's Table Tennis
04-22-2015, 07:42 AM
More update:

Luckily, I was given some DHS poly balls which were prepared to be used in Grand Finals 2014 in Bangkok. The DHS ball's bounce characteristics is identical to Stiga Optimum 40+ ball. I think both DHS and Stiga balls are the same. Both bounces less than Palio/Xushaofa and Andro Speedball (celluloid). Makes me wonder why ITTF used seamed poly balls at all.

The goal was seamless, but obviously factories encountered difficulties, hence seamed versions being approved too.
Yes, Stiga balls are from DHS factory

I am trying to find out which factory Butterfly is from, and why is Butterfly charging more for the same ball etc

Tony's Table Tennis
04-22-2015, 07:44 AM
How would you say the spin is compared to the celluloid ball?

Reduce, but better imo than seamed versions.

Imo, don't focus on how different it is to celluball, as cellu ball lifespam is gone already - and if not the case, will be gone by end of June 2016. So we need to adapt to 40+, even if it is reduce spin, or reduce speed or does any other funny thing

TTHopeful
04-22-2015, 09:39 AM
The goal was seamless, but obviously factories encountered difficulties, hence seamed versions being approved too.
Yes, Stiga balls are from DHS factory

I am trying to find out which factory Butterfly is from, and why is Butterfly charging more for the same ball etc

Butterfly probably make them, themselves. I think the quality of DHS balls like the Stiga ones which you mentioned are better quality than the Butterfly. I definitely think Butterfly balls are not made from same factory as the DHS ones. I saw on TTD reviews the Butterfly ball reviews are poor: http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/equipment/balls/9950-3-star-40

I definitely prefer the seamless ones at the moment. Butterfly do have this Easy ball coming out, that could be something...

Tony's Table Tennis
04-22-2015, 09:47 AM
Butterfly probably make them, themselves. I think the quality of DHS balls like the Stiga ones which you mentioned are better quality than the Butterfly. I definitely think Butterfly balls are not made from same factory as the DHS ones. I saw on TTD reviews the Butterfly ball reviews are poor: http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/equipment/balls/9950-3-star-40

I definitely prefer the seamless ones at the moment. Butterfly do have this Easy ball coming out, that could be something...

No, Butterfly does not have a factory to produce 40+ balls, as it stands, there is only 5 approved by ITTF and 4 in action.
Butterfly is not one of them.

So there is a chance that Butterfly has an early version DHS ball (which is really bad quality), or they using DF balls.
And then charging a huge premium for the logo

TTHopeful
04-22-2015, 09:59 AM
No, Butterfly does not have a factory to produce 40+ balls, as it stands, there is only 5 approved by ITTF and 4 in action.
Butterfly is not one of them.

So there is a chance that Butterfly has an early version DHS ball (which is really bad quality), or they using DF balls.
And then charging a huge premium for the logo

You really are in the know Tony. Thanks, yes it could be a early version. I feel Tibhar, Butterfly and Joola are on similar qualities. Maybe they are same batch they all feel very similar. The Stiga and Donic feel a touch better. I have yet to try the Nittaku balls. There are two types from Nittaku (Sha + Premium) What's the difference?

TT4Life
04-22-2015, 10:04 AM
one made in Japan , the other Sha are made in China, i'm using the 2 stars Nittaku made in Japan for training and the 3 stars for games. Best of all seam plastic balls right now.

brabhamista
04-22-2015, 10:11 AM
I have yet to try the Nittaku balls. There are two types from Nittaku (Sha + Premium) What's the difference?
They are both Nittaku poly balls, are both white and round, but have different playing characteristics to each other, are made using different techniques and in different factories. Not in the least confusing, eh? :p

Nittaku SHA is a DHS clone made in China and plays like all the other DHS/DF clones.

Nittaku Premium is made in Japan in Nittaku's own factory. It's a seamed ball, but the seam is very thin compared to DHS/DF. The Nittaku Premium ball reportedly plays better (closer to celluloid) than DHS/DF or XSF, but it's fragile and expensive.

akoozab
04-22-2015, 11:11 AM
For now,i think KINGNIK+YINHE+XUSHAOFA=ARE THE BEST.Dont bla-bla,just try it!

TTHopeful
04-22-2015, 12:48 PM
They are both Nittaku poly balls, are both white and round, but have different playing characteristics to each other, are made using different techniques and in different factories. Not in the least confusing, eh? :p

Nittaku SHA is a DHS clone made in China and plays like all the other DHS/DF clones.

Nittaku Premium is made in Japan in Nittaku's own factory. It's a seamed ball, but the seam is very thin compared to DHS/DF. The Nittaku Premium ball reportedly plays better (closer to celluloid) than DHS/DF or XSF, but it's fragile and expensive.

I understand now. Nittaku seem to be the pioneers in balls, I am surprised they are not using it at this years World Championships. Thanks again.

TareqPhoto
04-22-2015, 01:32 PM
To be honest, i played with poly balls and i don't feel that it is very different than cellu balls, in fact i played once just practice with someone and we were using different balls, to my surprise the balls were, 1 poly, 3 different cellu one of them is 1 star, so i don't care if i play with celluloid or poly or even gold ball.

SquareBall
11-22-2015, 09:54 AM
I have ordered some plastic XIOM balls since that's the only xushaofa I can find in Greece. Did look at tt11.com website just to double check the price and saw another new ball appearing in the front page, XIOM Pro Select 40+*** (seam plastic ball). Price is the same as the XIOM Seamless Plastic Ball. Is the new ball like DHS and all those bad quality, easy breaking balls?

PalashBindal
11-22-2015, 12:59 PM
I have ordered some plastic XIOM balls since that's the only xushaofa I can find in Greece. Did look at tt11.com website just to double check the price and saw another new ball appearing in the front page, XIOM Pro Select 40+*** (seam plastic ball). Price is the same as the XIOM Seamless Plastic Ball. Is the new ball like DHS and all those bad quality, easy breaking balls?
If it says seamed, expect it to be similar to dhs or double fish plastic balls. However if it says seamed and made in Japan or Germany, expect it to be similar to nittaku premium 40+ or butterfly G40+. And if it says seamless, expect it to be similar to Xushaofa 40+.

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SquareBall
11-22-2015, 01:37 PM
At XIOM.us there is no reference to this ball..

Baal
11-23-2015, 04:24 AM
Some people will probably like the G40+ from Butterfly. I think they are better than any Chinese seamed ball. I still prefer the Nittaku Premium 40+ from Japan, and also XSF.