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View Full Version : Indoor or outdoor lamp oil? Also Copydex alright?



Kokain
07-29-2015, 06:06 PM
I bought some lamp oil to use as a booster but when I walked in I had 3 options and wasn't sure if I made the right choice. There was 5 liters of paraffin, 1 liter of outdoor lamp oil and 1 liter of indoor, I went for the indoor which was also the most expensive. On the back it says one of the ingredients is paraffin anyway and something about being more pure.

http://i.imgur.com/LdbQjkO.jpg

Have I made the right choice or is the outdoor I need? Or is paraffin the best from all 3?
I also stopped by office supplies and bought some Copydex which came up on search in this forum as good cheap alternative for regluing rubber. How many coats of glue do you normally apply? Does the amount make difference in performance?

UpSideDownCarl
07-29-2015, 06:43 PM
Paraffin definitely causes the sponge to expand which is what causes the boosted effect. So plain old paraffin would have been fine. But there may be other ingredients that also cause the rubber to expand. Try it out. See how much it causes the rubber to dome up and curl. That would tell you if it worked.

Most oils cause sponge to expand like baby oil, olive oil and WD40. Many flammable solvents like lamp oil, lighter fluid, paraffin and gasoline will cause the sponge to expand. Any Volatile Organic Chemical (VOC) should do the trick.

Them saying it is more "pure" is probably that they have done something to the paraffin to give it a whiter flame and to make it smell less like paraffin. But the chemicals they used to get that result could actually help with boosting.

Test that lamp oil out and let us know how the rubber plays after. It should do the trick.


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fais
07-29-2015, 07:24 PM
When using oil vs boosters, do u still add a layer of glue first or boost first? I inderstand with boosters u add a layer of glue first to keep too much booster from soaking/ruining topsheet?

jeffre4
07-29-2015, 07:45 PM
how about not cheating

UpSideDownCarl
07-29-2015, 08:03 PM
When using oil vs boosters, do u still add a layer of glue first or boost first? I inderstand with boosters u add a layer of glue first to keep too much booster from soaking/ruining topsheet?

I would do it with the glue already on.


how about not cheating

I guess there are many ways to see this subject. I personally use rubbers that I don't feel I need to boost. Some people use slow, hard Chinese rubbers and boost them. And by doing that they save $40-$50 (USD) and I personally think, if it makes playing more affordable, I think that is okay.

There is one more scenario where I think it is not really a big deal: when your rubbers are just about worn out and it is time to change them, you can do a few things to make them last another month or so. So that would also be about saving some money. If money is tight, I have no problem with other people doing those things even if, technically, it is against the rules.

But I also think the rules may not be 100% for the best outcome for table tennis. When they banned speed glue they originally said it was because of the danger of the VOCs. But then they also banned all boosters including the ones that are completely safe. So I am not sure why they really banned boosting. It could have had to do more with TT companies making more profit. I don't know.

Then there are guys who use stuff like Tenergy and boost. Now I don't play at a world class level. But all the guys in the top 50 are boosting so it is hard not to if you are at that level.

The new boosters they have from the companies don't use VOCs and work really well. So I am not 100% sure why they are against the rules. But, the truth is, they are and the top pros boost anyway.

Does it matter at a club level? I don't think so, even if I don't boost. But, hey, I kind of feel like they never should have banned "frictionless" pips (aspect ratio) so, that is just how I feel.


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fais
07-29-2015, 09:35 PM
how about not cheating

I've never boosted before but I've been curious (after watching Dan's howto vid) for quite a while now on the effect/feel boosting has on rubbers.

by the way, pros circumvent the boosting rule by have the factory boost to their exact specifications. Heck, we get boosted rubbers whenever we purchase DHS neo rubbers or Yinhe Maxtense rubbers, sooo.. if ITTF says i can't do it but others can, then suffice to say F**K ITTF.

UpSideDownCarl
07-30-2015, 12:37 AM
Yep. I was about to go there because it just came into my mind. But, fais, you beat me to it. Why is it legal if it boosted in the factory before packaging. But not legal for you to add the boost yourself? That is a big question. Because a lot of popular rubbers are "factory tuned".


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Machine_Head
07-30-2015, 01:10 AM
Kokain, the lamp oil available in my country is made by Konice, I belive this is a Korean company. The label says it is 99% pure and the color of the liquid is green. It is odorless and the consistency is like water. I use this to boost of my Chinese rubbers such as H3 Neo, TG3 Neo, Globe 999, etc. It works really well. It really softens the sponge to make it very lively.

Recently, I boosted my TG3 Neo with 10 layers on bare sponge. The rubber curled up like a scroll. I had to wait about 4 days before I glued it on my blade. When I glued it I noticed the rubber expanded 2-3mm and I had to cut the excess. The TG3 is now very lively, it blocks really well, and it seemed to increase spin that my usual sparing partner had a difficult time blocking my loops.

Give it a try and let us know how it goes. :)

Der_Echte
07-30-2015, 05:16 AM
What is legal is sometimes not moral or RIGHT, and often, what is morally right is certainly illegal. It is all about money in these situations in most cases in life.

fais
07-30-2015, 06:52 AM
Hit the nail right on the head...because money. Boosting isnt unsafe (most boosters are voc free), and boosting gives sponsored players an unfair advantage by creating a glass ceiling. (They can get equipment to their specifications, and we are stuck with bottom tier eauilment WITHOUT any options to upgrade.)

Its like letting nfl players use steroids but preventing ncaa players from doing so, and then pitting the two against each other and calling it fair game... sorry if the analogy is terrible, its late and i should be sleeping.

Liten
07-30-2015, 08:26 AM
As I don't play official matches or tournaments I use the booster to get my old rubbers back in shape. Once you take the plunge, the procedur is actually quite meditative.. Sort of like guncleaning.. :)

The chinese rubber do need loads more tuning than other rubbers imo..

3 layers on my old taiphoon rubbers made them curl up like a ball! The TG2 neo is still flat after 3 layers. :D

Suga D
07-30-2015, 09:09 AM
As far as i've been told, that copydex glue is almost the same as that revolution3 glue, which has ITTF approval, so it should be pretty safe using it as well.
I just bought a glue called "connect speed" from a small german company called www.soulspin.tt which is also a latex water based glue, and i asked the guys if that glue is 'legal' and they told me that it's totally legal!
That's when i thought to give it a try.
I put 2 layers on the blade and four on the rubber, and it really makes a difference in performance, but nowhere close to VOC containing speed glue. :-)

Machine_Head
07-30-2015, 11:13 AM
Boosting is not allowed in ITTF tournaments but it is not illegal. Police will not charge through your door and arrest you if you boost. To me, boosting is just another geeky thing I enjoy playing around with. I agree with Liten, it is meditative and therapeutic as well. I know, it's strange. :)

Kokain
07-30-2015, 08:36 PM
The stuff I'm using is odorless and it has no color, it's almost like water until you touch it. Applied 1 coat last night and the plan was to glue it tomorrow (day 3) but after 24 hours I noticed it has dried nicely so I applied a 2nd light coat just now. About mid day tomorrow I will glue it at work and vice it together for 6 hours before my matches. It will be good to see how much of a difference it makes
http://i.imgur.com/v5tBs4l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sVBCIHp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qPYm1xz.jpg
I will also try it on old club blade and rubber from a member who wants his equipment swapped on a different old blade. If mine works well I will boost his old 5-10 year old coppa rubbers to resurrect some of the spin back. He will be pleasantly surprised. By the way I'm planning on doing 2 coats on rubber and 1 coat on blade, will this suffice? 1st coat is just in case the sponge soaks it up...

Machine_Head
07-31-2015, 01:30 AM
The stuff I'm using is odorless and it has no color, it's almost like water until you touch it. Applied 1 coat last night and the plan was to glue it tomorrow (day 3) but after 24 hours I noticed it has dried nicely so I applied a 2nd light coat just now. About mid day tomorrow I will glue it at work and vice it together for 6 hours before my matches. It will be good to see how much of a difference it makes
http://i.imgur.com/v5tBs4l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sVBCIHp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qPYm1xz.jpg
I will also try it on old club blade and rubber from a member who wants his equipment swapped on a different old blade. If mine works well I will boost his old 5-10 year old coppa rubbers to resurrect some of the spin back. He will be pleasantly surprised. By the way I'm planning on doing 2 coats on rubber and 1 coat on blade, will this suffice? 1st coat is just in case the sponge soaks it up...

Has your rubber domed yet? I believe you have to let it dome otherwise you won't be able to experience the effect.

UpSideDownCarl
07-31-2015, 05:33 AM
With lamp oil you apply it differently than with the boosters like Haifu Sea Moon. You can apply layer after layer until it domes up and starts curling you don't need to wait hours to put a second coat on. It should sink into the sponge in 5-10 min or less. Then you apply the next coat.

When I used to use Chinese rubbers and boost, I would boost till it started doming up and then I would glue it on maybe 15-20 min after. Sometimes it would curl away from the blade after I glued it and then, when that happened I would take it off to let it air for another 20 min. But I was not going to wait for it to undome after doming. That is like wasting a good part of the booster's effect.

When the rubber starts to curl, that is because the sponge expanded. The sponge expansion gives the boost effect. If you wait for it to undome, that happens because the sponge shrunk some and the topsheet stretched some. Both mean less boost effect.


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Liten
07-31-2015, 06:03 AM
With hard sponges, thats easier. Try gluing down two old stiga taiphoos rubbers with 3 coats of booster.. Their like those babies who squirm and twist out of your hands.. Jeeeez :D

Kokain
07-31-2015, 06:11 AM
Sorry photo is missleading. It has 2 coats applied on the rubber, but I moved it prior to taking pictures and the tackiness of the rubber kept it sucked in flat to the table. The rubber domed just as expected, it pops back out after couple of minutes sitting on the table. And yes I wouldn't wait for the rubber to undome for weeks like I've read some people have done as that makes no sense since the oil will dry. Plus this only will last for few weeks of play before the effect is gone. I also agree that with this paraffin stuff you don't need to wait long before reglueing as you can see how nice it dries. For example if I leave diesel sitting it won't dry for days, but on a test patch of lamp oil it evaporated pretty much after 4-5 hours. Touch dry this was ok after 1 hour sitting outside. If Im not mistaken in a old thread some guy mention 1 coat 24 hours then 2nd coat and 3 hours after reglue, so it's very well possible. I just woke up so it had plenty of hours to dry completely and by the time I botch a little vice I will glue it around midday today so it's ready for action tonight.

To Liten......yes that's true M2 blue curled a little more than the powergrip green

milly86
07-31-2015, 08:24 AM
I bought some lamp oil to use as a booster but when I walked in I had 3 options and wasn't sure if I made the right choice. There was 5 liters of paraffin, 1 liter of outdoor lamp oil and 1 liter of indoor, I went for the indoor which was also the most expensive. On the back it says one of the ingredients is paraffin anyway and something about being more pure.


Have I made the right choice or is the outdoor I need? Or is paraffin the best from all 3?
I also stopped by office supplies and bought some Copydex which came up on search in this forum as good cheap alternative for regluing rubber. How many coats of glue do you normally apply? Does the amount make difference in performance?
How much have you cost ?

Machine_Head
07-31-2015, 03:44 PM
When i boost my rubbers they curl up like a scroll, both ends touching each other. How do you glue it on a blade with that kind of dome?

Even if i wait for the dome to settle down, the sheet has expanded considerably. I had to cut away about 2 to 3mm on all sides.

UpSideDownCarl
07-31-2015, 07:28 PM
When i boost my rubbers they curl up like a scroll, both ends touching each other. How do you glue it on a blade with that kind of dome?

Even if i wait for the dome to settle down, the sheet has expanded considerably. I had to cut away about 2 to 3mm on all sides.

I would glue them on as soon as I could. But if they are seriously curled up you do have to wait a little.

Kokain
08-06-2015, 07:36 PM
I'm back with some feedback. This is some good stuff, very pleasantly surprised of the effects from tuning the rubber. Speed and spin as expected was definitely noticeable and it just felt like the first day I played with the rubbers. The bounce was very pronounced. The fact that it softened the sponge helped with both rubbers hugging the ball more and producing incredible spin. This was especially cool on hard sponge like Rasant Powergrip.
So yeah good stuff. I'm also happy with Copydex, it's much easier to remove compared to the other water base glues, and you can either just catch one end and rip it off or as Der_Echte said in another thread, put some more paraffin, come back after 10min and just rub it off.

By the way I decided to restore my friends old rubbers too and he is amazed of the speed and spin his old Coppa's and Friendship feel. Here are some pictures
http://i.imgur.com/bsS9MrT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ilObmUO.jpg
My ghetto hardware vice is outstanding, I botched it on Friday while I was at work using nothing but a hand saw.
I think the older denser sponges respond very well to boosting. They did require a lot more layers though before they started to curl and absorbed the oil immediately.

Right, somebody asked me about costs. The indoor lamp oil was around 5.90 and the 125ml Copydex I picked up for 6.25. Keep in mind this was on our account so I technically didn't pay for it, otherwise yes when I initially saw the price I thought might as well order TT glue. After coming home and checking the prices online you can pick the Copydex for as low as 2.80 and the lamp oil was 3.00 for a liter. That's more like it. Keep in mind you want the liquid bottled version and not the toothpaste of Copydex. I can highly recommend you this affordable, easy to find and tuning friendly method. It's really worth it. I even gave one of the Coppa sheets a bit of a voodoo with some lemon juice and honey to get the tackiness back. Didn't last long but it produced some wtf serves that were just too much lol :-)

UpSideDownCarl
08-07-2015, 12:11 AM
I like that homemade clamp. Good stuff.


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igorponger
04-15-2018, 02:20 PM
HAPPY JAPANESE ..

Every booster does contain some dose of a poison. [:(:] Manufacturers do use toxic materials and they always keep the factual composition of booster in secret, not for public knowledge.

China and Belgium produce boosters in plenty.
Japan prohibited selling and using boosters for all domestic retailers and players.

Japanese do care of their children wellbeing so much. Chinese do not.. Sorry.

Astorix
04-15-2018, 03:03 PM
HAPPY JAPANESE ..

Every booster does contain some dose of a poison. [:(:] Manufacturers do use toxic materials and they always keep the factual composition of booster in secret, not for public knowledge.

China and Belgium produce boosters in plenty.
Japan prohibited selling and using boosters for all domestic retailers and players.

Japanese do care of their children wellbeing so much. Chinese do not.. Sorry.


in europe a very popular booster is the Dymax Maximizer. it is said Dima likes this one very much. It is open to the market and everyone can buy it. it is made in germany and on the bottle they print the incredients.