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Aussieron50
08-16-2015, 10:25 AM
I have a jar of falco booster and it says to apply to rubber , shouldn't that be apply to the sponge ?

UpSideDownCarl
08-16-2015, 01:23 PM
I have a jar of falco booster and it says to apply to rubber , shouldn't that be apply to the sponge ?

Yep. You don't usually apply booster to the topsheet. They must have meant the word "rubber" as the general term. Like, I don't usually say: "I am going to get a set of Tenergy topsheets and sponges." But you are 100% correct that they should have specified which part of the rubber to apply it to: ie: the sponge.

Booster causes the sponge to expand which is where the enhanced performance comes from. So that is usually where you put it. Every so often someone puts something like baby oil, olive oil or WD40 on the topsheet to revive its grip. I am not sure that the full strength booster would work for that but it might if you put a very small amount. For that, I like WD40 best. It makes the topsheet grip better for a few extra weeks. But WD40 would not work well for boosting the sponge.

Also, I would only apply WD40 to the topsheet of a rubber that is pretty close to dead: one that I would switch out if I didn't revive the topsheet and get it to have more grip.

In other words, to boost the sponge you want to apply Falco Booster to the sponge.

I guess that is a long way of saying: yes, you are right. [emoji2]


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joskelly
08-16-2015, 01:36 PM
Yep. You don't usually apply booster to the topsheet. They must have meant the word "rubber" as the general term. Like, I don't usually say: "I am going to get a set of Tenergy topsheets and sponges." But you are 100% correct that they should have specified which part of the rubber to apply it to: ie: the sponge.

Booster causes the sponge to expand which is where the enhanced performance comes from. So that is usually where you put it. Every so often someone puts something like baby oil, olive oil or WD40 on the topsheet to revive its grip. I am not sure that the full strength booster would work for that but it might if you put a very small amount. For that, I like WD40 best. It makes the topsheet grip better for a few extra weeks. But WD40 would not work well for boosting the sponge.

Also, I would only apply WD40 to the topsheet of a rubber that is pretty close to dead: one that I would switch out if I didn't revive the topsheet and get it to have more grip.

In other words, to boost the sponge you want to apply Falco Booster to the sponge.

I guess that is a long way of saying: yes, you are right. [emoji2]


Sent from my Phone using Tapatalk

Thanks for that explanation. I've wondered about this myself. Perhaps you can answer another question that's perplexed me about boosting? If boosting say an H3 rubber significantly improves it due to softened sponge etc. Why don't the rubber manufacturers just make the rubber/sponge that way in the first place?

Hamasaki_Fanz
08-16-2015, 01:41 PM
you better learn how to play against players with junk rubbers instead of posting how to boost your rubber !!

Joke aside, yes you put it on the sponge... What do you think the best way to boost rubber, Carl?
WBG-booster(x times)-WBG or
(WBG-booster repeat x times)- WBG or
Booster(x times) - WBG ?

Ilia Minkin
08-16-2015, 02:37 PM
I can't post links, so go to YouTube, find user 'ppball' and its video 'Table Tennis Booster'.

UpSideDownCarl
08-16-2015, 03:33 PM
I can't post links, so go to YouTube, find user 'ppball' and its video 'Table Tennis Booster'.

Here is your video for everyone on TTDaily.


http://youtu.be/5F3yzZ7yJ3Q

Like in the video, when I boosted, I put the boost on after the glue.


If boosting say an H3 rubber significantly improves it due to softened sponge etc. Why don't the rubber manufacturers just make the rubber/sponge that way in the first place?

The boost expands the sponge; that stretches the topsheet; that provides more of a trampoline effect from the topsheet, more grab and more dwell time. It does make the sponge work better. But it is more than just the sponge that is effected by the expansion of the sponge. And I am pretty sure that, if they could really get that effect entirely from how they make the sponge and/or the topsheet, then they would have stuff that was better than speed glue.

The funny part about that: the stuff that is almost as good as speed glue, the stuff that supposedly has a built in glue effect, the top players still seem to boost it.


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Liten
08-16-2015, 04:09 PM
So to sum things up: find a way to shrink sponge material before gluing them to the rubber = big dollars for you!



(To bury that invention deep where no one finds it!)

sugarbear
08-16-2015, 11:22 PM
Why does the glue go before the first layer of boost?

Also, are there any bounce test comparison videos of boosted vs non-boosted rubbers?

42andbackpains
08-17-2015, 12:18 AM
Why does the glue go before the first layer of boost?

Also, are there any bounce test comparison videos of boosted vs non-boosted rubbers?

It is to slow the absorbtion rate of the booster. Putting on too much booster or too fast can damage the top sheet of the rubber. Example of damage is the top sheet will release from the sponge and create bubbles/mounds that you will clearly see and you will have ruined your expensive table tennis rubber. Over boosting is a bad thing, so don't be heavy handed when applying the booster. :D

UpSideDownCarl
08-17-2015, 01:42 AM
Also, the glue is rubber and the booster is a solvent. So it actually "boosts" the glue too.


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sugarbear
08-17-2015, 01:47 AM
Thanks for the replies!

UpSideDownCarl
08-17-2015, 01:51 AM
Also, are there any bounce test comparison videos of boosted vs non-boosted rubbers?

I don't know. There may be. But if you ever try a well boosted rubber after the same rubber not boosted, you won't need bounce tests. [emoji2]. You can feel the boost effect for sure.


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Der_Echte
08-17-2015, 02:35 AM
Yep. You don't usually apply booster to the topsheet. They must have meant the word "rubber" as the general term. Like, I don't usually say: "I am going to get a set of Tenergy topsheets and sponges." But you are 100% correct that they should have specified which part of the rubber to apply it to: ie: the sponge.

Booster causes the sponge to expand which is where the enhanced performance comes from. So that is usually where you put it. Every so often someone puts something like baby oil, olive oil or WD40 on the topsheet to revive its grip. I am not sure that the full strength booster would work for that but it might if you put a very small amount. For that, I like WD40 best. It makes the topsheet grip better for a few extra weeks. But WD40 would not work well for boosting the sponge.

Also, I would only apply WD40 to the topsheet of a rubber that is pretty close to dead: one that I would switch out if I didn't revive the topsheet and get it to have more grip.

In other words, to boost the sponge you want to apply Falco Booster to the sponge.

I guess that is a long way of saying: yes, you are right. [emoji2]


Sent from my i=Phony using Booster-talk

I am NOT a tuner expert, but one time, I tried the stuff out to see what it did. Some forum posts said to put the stuff on the topsheet as well to neutralize the dome. I did that to TERRIBLE effect. I ruined the topsheets of two rubbers for a friend's bat in my care and I was about to leave Iraq. I BARELY got replacement rubbers in time to give to hiz friend and to this day I do not know if he ever got the rubbers.

CroneOne
11-11-2015, 03:35 AM
I'm just curious about the science of what happens to the rubber when you apply booster. Does anyone know the details? My guess is that the sponge expands and lets air into the sponge, which then stretches the top sheet. The sponge and rubber curls up...is that because the top sheet is pulling against the expanding sponge? If so - what is happening a week later when the curled up rubber relaxes?

42andbackpains
11-11-2015, 04:09 PM
I dont know the Science of it. I just know it expands and softens the sponge. There are usually 2 factions when it comes to boosting.

1. Some prefer to affix the rubber to the blade when the rubber is still curled. You usually need to use some side/edge tape and leave it in a press for a couple of hours for complete drying of the rubber to the blade. So you dont run the risk of the rubber coming unglued. My speculation is this is why you see so many pros use side/edge tape.;) By the way, i am in this category...:D

2. The other faction prefers the rubber to come back down to near flatness before affixing the rubber to the blade. This i have noticed gives the rubber a little bit of a longer life.

Now dont get me started on the mysterious super secret booster oil the China Team uses...or the Goon Squad will get you!!!:p

Suga D
11-11-2015, 05:20 PM
I'm just curious about the science of what happens to the rubber when you apply booster. Does anyone know the details? My guess is that the sponge expands and lets air into the sponge, which then stretches the top sheet. The sponge and rubber curls up...is that because the top sheet is pulling against the expanding sponge? If so - what is happening a week later when the curled up rubber relaxes?

Maybe this here can help:
https://thoughtsontabletennis.wordpress.com/2015/03/09/introduction-to-table-tennis-chemistry/

CroneOne
11-11-2015, 06:20 PM
Wow amazing thank you for the link.

p.s. 42andbackpains I just bought one of these massage pillows - it does wonders
after hard training.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BOYA2M2?*Version*=1&*entries*=0

UpSideDownCarl
11-12-2015, 01:07 AM
42andbackpains summed that up nicely.

When I used to use H3 and boost, I was in the camp of liking to glue as soon as the boost had sunk into the sponge enough for me to glue.

So, sometimes I was actually gluing before the sponge had fully expanded and curled. From tests, I knew it would expand and curl. But I glued it on ASAP. I also didn't wait for hours for more layers. I put one on, then the next until I felt I had the right amount of boost in that sucka! Then as soon as the boost had sunk in fully enough for me to glue, I would. My thinking was, "why wait for the fast drying boost chemicals to evaporate and no longer be in there!"

Perhaps I was wrong but I know the method I used worked well enough.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

gmiller2233
11-17-2015, 08:04 PM
I'm courious if there are several people doing the ASAP gluing method that usd Carl explains? This is the first I have heard of this. The bit about not letting all the expanding properties drift away makes sense. Also is this methods with actual old school speed glue or is it also with a product like Falco boost? I have never boosted but I'm waiting on my shipment which includes Falco long boost as I write this. it's coming from Estonia and is taking forever (coming up on a month I think it must be stuck in customs). But I like the idea of not waiting a week to try it out. I have a old neo h3 and picked up some hard piano and 999t rubbers just it try it out. The shipment also has Falco top sheet life expander which is supposed to have some lesser tuning properties.


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TTFrenzy
11-17-2015, 11:17 PM
Why does the glue go before the first layer of boost?

Also, are there any bounce test comparison videos of boosted vs non-boosted rubbers?


Oh my god I used to that all the time and always trying to find the perfect way of throwing the ball. I sadly didnt record anything although I have done like a hundred or more tests throwing balls from different heights.

So I found out that if u let a ball fall into the sweet spot of the blade, (sweet spot is in the center and 1 half/one ball up) from approximately 30-40 cm you can have a good understanding of whats goin on .

If u let the ball fall from much higher spots then you get unwanted results (not perfect vertical landing, sponge compressed also)

So after many experiments I found out that my hurricane is performing at its best when

the bounce test of 30cm gives me a rebound of 18 19 cm. The thing is that after the first week the rebound drops and this is one of the reasons i dropped playing with tacky rubbers cause if u want steady performance u have to boost all the time. To realize how much faster tensors are the tenergy gave me a rebound of 22-24.5 cm height


Now if the ball lands closer to the handle, even if boosted the chinese rubber bounces like dead but a tensor still gives you a solid bounce which is a good explanation of the statement "tacky rubbers are not forgiving"

hope I helped, bear in mind that the numbers provided are my own personal tests to give you an image about what's happening. I used many different boosting methods during the period I played with chinese rubber