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View Full Version : Any pointers on my reverse pendulum



Overseer Kevin
10-17-2015, 02:55 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wMYcyJu3nPM

Sorry you can't see the entire table. I'll try to do that Next time. This was me just fooling around with my phones camera. But if you could help me out...I would appreciate it. Don't be too cruel :cool:

Ilia Minkin
10-17-2015, 03:08 AM
You hide the contact with your free hand which is illegal.

Overseer Kevin
10-17-2015, 03:11 AM
You hide the contact with your free hand which is illegal.

Oh... It's that obvious? I've been working on that. I really didn't know how much that off hand affects balance. When I move it out of the way serving seems awkward. I actually use to hit my off hand with the serve sometimes. Embarrassing. Lol

Shiro
10-17-2015, 04:14 AM
Yes, he is right, your serve is illegal. The serve is illegal because your hand is in the way. If you want the serve to be short, you want to hit the ball when its falling down around your chest area. If you want the ball to be long, hit it around your stomach or lower than the chest area. In order to make your serve legal, try to practice moving your hand away as soon as you throw the ball up.

Overseer Kevin
10-17-2015, 04:49 AM
Yes, he is right, your serve is illegal. The serve is illegal because your hand is in the way. If you want the serve to be short, you want to hit the ball when its falling down around your chest area. If you want the ball to be long, hit it around your stomach or lower than the chest area. In order to make your serve legal, try to practice moving your hand away as soon as you throw the ball up.

Yes. That's what I do to correct the off hand. I move it out of the way as soon as it goes up. This video is old, I just decided to upload it and get some points.

I've noticed that serving around the chest area slows the speed down. It does bounce shorter but the speed is reduced for me tremendously.

Lowering the contact point allows me to keep speed on the serve while still keeping the serve short (bouncing twice on the opponents side). Which is my goal because it takes time away from the returner. And it disrupts the returners timing as the serve both stays low, and has enough speed and spin to really get a good bounce off of their racket.

Overseer Kevin
10-17-2015, 04:58 AM
Aside from the off hand being illegal (hiding the serve). Do you see decent quality in the ball trajectory?

NextLevel
10-17-2015, 05:03 AM
Too much sidespin on all the backspin serves. That's my view at least.

Your wrist action also looks much less than it could be.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBlZzeSRabY

Overseer Kevin
10-17-2015, 05:09 AM
Too much sidespin on all the backspin serves. That's my view at least.

Your wrist action also looks much less than it could be.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBlZzeSRabY

You know what! You're absolutely right. That's what I've been trying to correct. I've been experimenting with brushing down on the back of the ball instead of coming under the ball. I think that's a little more deceptive, but it's harder to keep speed on the serve and keep it low because it bounces harder on the table off my racket. Coming under the ball is pretty telegraphed and easier for the opponent to see. Still working on it though.

NextLevel
10-17-2015, 05:14 AM
You know what! You're absolutely right. That's what I've been trying to correct. I've been experimenting with brushing down on the back of the ball instead of coming under the ball. I think that's a little more deceptive, but it's harder to keep speed on the serve and keep it low because it bounces harder on the table off my racket. Coming under the ball is pretty telegraphed and easier for the opponent to see. Still working on it though.


Coming under the ball is fine. Maybe it's the video but it's not clear you are getting real backspin - the serves look like mostly sidespin to me even as you label them backspin. However, do realize that while curved trajectories look good, the ball is easier to manipulate in the hands of an experienced returner. Most people at the lower levels just don't face reversed pendulum with backspin so they will push it into the net. That's my experience.

Overseer Kevin
10-17-2015, 05:22 AM
Coming under the ball is fine. Maybe it's the video but it's not clear you are getting real backspin - the serves look like mostly sidespin to me even as you label them backspin. However, do realize that while curved trajectories look good, the ball is easier to manipulate in the hands of an experienced returner. Most people at the lower levels just don't face reversed pendulum with backspin so they will push it into the net. That's my experience.

They are backspin. But you're right, they do have side on them as well. More side than I want. It feels like I'm hitting the ball at 4:30 (bottom+side) instead of 6:00 (completely under).

Overseer Kevin
10-17-2015, 05:30 AM
The balls I use are marked and allow me to see the spin on the ball. I noticed on my backspin serve that the ball does this.

1. I hit the serve (bottom+side)
2. The ball hits the table on my side (still bottom+side spin)
3. The ball hits the opponents side but on that bounce, when the ball rises, I notice the spin is now totally side. No more backspin at all.

I think that can trick some people, but it's still not the spin I want. I mean really, I'm looking for almost a reverse pendulum, ghost serve amount of backspin. Lol I want to see the ball bounce back towards the net. Lol

bolterixus
10-17-2015, 06:52 AM
Not sure if anyone said it. But bending your legs will help to keep the ball low which would make it harder for the opponent. Just try to bend you legs more.

Overseer Kevin
10-17-2015, 03:40 PM
Not sure if anyone said it. But bending your legs will help to keep the ball low which would make it harder for the opponent. Just try to bend you legs more.

Oh. I forgot to mention that part. This video was made while I was at home nursing a knee sprain. My right knee was stiff as a board. I couldn't bend it at all. That's why I'm walking funny. Lol

Thanks for that tip and I'm going to really work on it. I do naturally stand up pretty straight. A little forward lean but not nearly as much add I need.

UpSideDownCarl
10-17-2015, 04:13 PM
Yeah, in watching, I saw what NextLevel said. The ones you say are backspin look more like side. Some even look like side/top.

But I would say the big issue is, when you can you should get s lot lower and on contact upper back rounded forward with knees bent.

Obviously the left hand in the way is an easy correction.

When you are about to serve, you do an action that might telegraph to your opponent what serve is coming. You do the wrist action before you get set to serve. Here that is fine. In match play you may want to do one that isn't the serve you are going to do to throw in extra deception.


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

UpSideDownCarl
10-17-2015, 04:25 PM
Oh, one more detail: it is fun to put the face with the name so thanks for posting this. I also get a kick out of hearing your between serve trash talk. It makes it fun. Keep it up.


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Overseer Kevin
10-19-2015, 03:55 PM
Oh, one more detail: it is fun to put the face with the name so thanks for posting this. I also get a kick out of hearing your between serve trash talk. It makes it fun. Keep it up.


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

I'm rolling. Thanks for the tip. I didn't notice that I gave the serve away. Oops! And yes, the trash talk is just something I'm known for at the club. It's harmless trash talk and it helps keep people having fun instead of being too serious. As you know, some people can be very very very serious. Lol Especially the under 1600 players.

So this is what I do. I see a very good player and challenge him to a match. I'll ask him "Are you ready?" "You sure you're ready?" "Don't be nervous, I'll take it easy on you"

Just imagine a under 1600 player talking like that to a 2000+ player. Lol They think I'm crazy and bust out laughing.

Talking trash also makes better players play their best game and not take it easy on me because they're so much better.

Giangt
10-19-2015, 05:40 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, but here is my comments.
what I see when you are executing the service is your elbow needs to be approx shoulder height before contacting the ball. Also you need body rotation into the ball when contacting to use the energy of your body to generate spin/speed. Focus on the brush and where you brush the ball.



http://youtu.be/fznDln6_iyc

Overseer Kevin
10-19-2015, 06:15 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, but here is my comments.
what I see when you are executing the service is your elbow needs to be approx shoulder height before contacting the ball. Also you need body rotation into the ball when contacting to use the energy of your body to generate spin/speed. Focus on the brush and where you brush the ball.



http://youtu.be/fznDln6_iyc

Thanks Giangt for the video. I notice that you've got my two favorite blades listed. I'm actually sitting here waiting on my hurricane long 5 to arrive now. But my goal is to get a W997 or N301 or W968. I love t05 but I prefer the lighter fx version. Right now I'm playing with t64fx.

SchemeSC
10-19-2015, 07:03 PM
"It's gonna hurt you!" Hah, love it man.

I have the same problem with putting mostly sidespin on the serve instead of backspin, so I don't have much advice to offer. I find it nearly impossible to go forward and underneath the ball without completely turning my shoulders and hips to face the opponent. But It may be that I just hit the ball too late in the motion...

I actually got frustrated with this serve (due to constant whiffing and an inability to control/understand it), so I shelved it back in 2014. Your video has inspired me a bit so maybe I'll get back to practicing it again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdmBbgbVxP4

Giangt
10-19-2015, 07:10 PM
Thanks Giangt for the video. I notice that you've got my two favorite blades listed. I'm actually sitting here waiting on my hurricane long 5 to arrive now. But my goal is to get a W997 or N301 or W968. I love t05 but I prefer the lighter fx version. Right now I'm playing with t64fx.
You are very welcome! Yh I have most of the DHS custom blades :) the N301 is koto outer while the W997 and W968 are limba. I see you have the ZJK SZLC... Why are you changing? Or are you just EJ'ing ;)

UpSideDownCarl
10-19-2015, 07:33 PM
Just imagine a under 1600 player talking like that to a 2000+ player. Lol They think I'm crazy and bust out laughing.

Talking trash also makes better players play their best game and not take it easy on me because they're so much better.

I love it. Worth having fun even if someone doesn't get it.

Muhamed Ali was my favorite trash talker of all time and look how he was able to make everyone around him have fun and really create a sense of excitement around boxing that has never been the same since.


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

Overseer Kevin
10-20-2015, 02:53 AM
You are very welcome! Yh I have most of the DHS custom blades :) the N301 is koto outer while the W997 and W968 are limba. I see you have the ZJK SZLC... Why are you changing? Or are you just EJ'ing ;)

I'm EJ'ing all the way. I'm not nearly good enough to know the minor differences in the blades and the interactions with the rubbers yet. Some things I can tell if the difference is huge. Like a slow blade from a fast blade. I can tell that. But loop properties, as opposed to drive, etc. I have no clue.

I like the ZJK SZLC but I prefer the Innerforce ZLC better away from the table. Felt like I had more control and confidence away from the table with the Innerforce zlc.

Overseer Kevin
10-20-2015, 02:59 AM
I love it. Worth having fun even if someone doesn't get it.

Muhamed Ali was my favorite trash talker of all time and look how he was able to make everyone around him have fun and really create a sense of excitement around boxing that has never been the same since.


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

That's me Carl. The "greatest of all time"!!!! Lol Somebody better tell them top 10 players that I'm coming for them. I'm the hitting King! I'll beat anybody in practice! Lol

UpSideDownCarl
10-20-2015, 04:38 AM
Well, then, here you go;


http://youtu.be/7_uzJTasHpE


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TT_Rogue
10-20-2015, 05:44 AM
To me it seems that you could use your wrist a bit more, espacially the backswing could be a bit bigger so you can accelerate more towards the ball. Ok that with your hand infront of the ball was discussed but i would not say just try to make legal servey. You should try to play with it, in the way that it is hard to tell if its legal or not.( I mean see Apolognia most of his serves are totaly illegal and how often does he get a foul?) If you advance more with the serve try to hit it beside your body and not infront of it, then you even can hide it more with your body

darnner123
10-20-2015, 06:49 AM
um idk cause I'm not that good myself but you are standing way to tall when serving. Most of the serves just look like side or side top maybe only a bit of backspin on some. As I've said I'm not sure but that's what i think.
For backspin have the bat angle almost vertical, well not too much but just make sure the bat brushes under the ball.

Overseer Kevin
10-20-2015, 05:00 PM
To me it seems that you could use your wrist a bit more, espacially the backswing could be a bit bigger so you can accelerate more towards the ball. Ok that with your hand infront of the ball was discussed but i would not say just try to make legal servey. You should try to play with it, in the way that it is hard to tell if its legal or not.( I mean see Apolognia most of his serves are totaly illegal and how often does he get a foul?) If you advance more with the serve try to hit it beside your body and not infront of it, then you even can hide it more with your body

Thanks. I don't want the serve to be illegal. But barely legal, I don't have a problem with that. Lol! I'm definitely going to keep experimenting with it. It took me a few months just to make consistent contact with the ball. Now I'm experimenting with different contact points to try and disguise the spin. For example, I'm experimenting with brushing down behind the ball for backspin instead of brushing under the ball. I'm trying to use the fingers a bit more to change the bat angle at contact. I'm just trying all types of things. Unfortunately I'm trickling myself more than I would the receiver. Lol

I've got a lot of time right now so I'm really learning a lot.

Overseer Kevin
10-20-2015, 05:11 PM
Thanks. I don't want the serve to be illegal. But barely legal, I don't have a problem with that. Lol! I'm definitely going to keep experimenting with it. It took me a few months just to make consistent contact with the ball. Now I'm experimenting with different contact points to try and disguise the spin. For example, I'm experimenting with brushing down behind the ball for backspin instead of brushing under the ball. I'm trying to use the fingers a bit more to change the bat angle at contact. I'm just trying all types of things. Unfortunately I'm trickling myself more than I would the receiver. Lol

I've got a lot of time right now so I'm really learning a lot.

Apolonia does serve pretty close to illegal. I saw a couple just now that were totally illegal. His arm and/or shoulder block the bats contact point with the ball. Wow