Donic Epox Offensiv Or Tibhar Nimbus Offensive

John_Pish · Jul 12, 2011

Hello everyone. Im in a dilemma.
Im a newer player. not 100% sure on what my play style is yet. im definitely very offensive,
but my skill to make shots isnt equal to my knowledge. so a shot i would want to use i normally dont try cause im not confident in it.
i just need lots of practice. but back on topic

I just have a butterfly pre assembled 401 shakehand paddle. i dont have much money right now.

But ive been doing research and a bunch of stuff. and i will be assembling my own paddle soon.

i will be doing a combo special on paddle palace. and im stuck between the Donic Epox Offensiv, and the Tibhar Nimbus Offensive

I have chosen after lots and lot of thought, i will be going with Tibhar Genius on both sides with 2.0, possibly max?

I originally was going with the nimbus blade and was debating within the nimbus series of rubber,
but i decided, if im going to be spending the same amount of money,
(and i rarely have much to spend) i might as well get my moneys worth so id decided with the genius

and now im debating the blade again, the epox combo is a tad more.
i trust both brands, i liked the thought of sticking with tibhar on both. but the nimbus blade worries me, its a bit heavier, which is a big downside for me, and its sort of an experimental thing with the whole 6 plies n such.
and the Epox is light, good. same speed rating, good. more control, good. ive heard its amazingly comfortable.

but there are very very few reviews on it, and the ones ive found they are not very definitive. some say not offensive, more like an off- and its also another 15 bucks for the combo.
so try to help me out here guys, if someone has tried 1 or both, please express your opinions.
sorry for the long post

chughtai · Jul 12, 2011

well i am using the donic epox offensiv for three months its not a bad wood btw but the sheets that u should buy should have a high throw angle to make the setup work

YosuaYosan · Jul 12, 2011

Speaking of which, Genius has a medium-high throw angle, so slap Tenergy 05 instead to the blade, but if you dont have that much budget, slap some Tibhar Grip-S instead.. Both have real high throw angle..
What is your previous setup ? If you use a premade bat, most probably high throw angle will give you a headache..

This post is a reference to the continuation of chugthai's reccomendation..

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 12, 2011

John_Pish said:
but there are very very few reviews on it, and the ones ive found they are not very definitive. some say not offensive, more like an off- and its also another 15 bucks for the combo.
so try to help me out here guys, if someone has tried 1 or both, please express your opinions.

One of the biggest mistakes I feel that newer players who are offensive make in getting a blade is to think that they should get a faster offensive rated blade. If you do not have the technique to put heavy spin on the ball and your ability to loop underspin is not solid you can slow your ability to develop those techniques with an offensive rated blade. The reason is that a faster, offensive rated blade will have less dwell time (the ball will not stay on the rubbers for as long) which means you will get significantly less spin. If you are already using a preassembled blade and are switching to a setup where you are choosing each individual part, the tool you get will be different enough from what you had for you to feel it is pretty fast.

I have to admit, for a long time when I would play with an offensive rated blade, I would love how it felt because I would just hit, and hit and hit, no loops, smashes, not much spin. But then I would play a game and not do that well. I did not realize it because it was what I was used to. I just was not good at looping underspin. When I went from an offensive blade to an Off- blade, (more control, more dwell time and more spin) I realized that I did not actually lose any power, I had to work a little harder for the power but I did not lose any. But my level jumped by over 100 points (USATT rating), just because I was getting so much more spin and getting so many more shots on the table. My receive of serve and short game are what improved the most. But those are the most important parts of the game.

For developing your strokes and your game, it is better to use an All+ or an Off- blade than an Off blade. When you get to a level like 2000 or 2100 then it is time to switch to a solid offensive blade. It is hard to get to a level like that without having VERY GOOD technique on all the basic shots. Therefore the faster blade would not stop you from learning to get heavy spin on loop attacks because you would already know how to do that.

So in short, if people are saying that the Donic Epox Offenisve is more like Off- and has a lot of control and is very consistent (that is what the reviews I saw said), then it might be a good blade to use. But here are some others that are really good, they are more than fast enough and have great control. These are not listed in any particular order. I just know all of these are good blades:

Donic Waldner Senso V1

Yasaka Gatien Extra

Butterfly Primorac

Stiga Allround Evolution

Stiga Energy WRB

Stiga Tube Allround WRB

These blades are all under $40.00 except for the Primorac which used to be $40.00 and now is $70.00. Butterfly likes to up their prices. They are all excellent blades. I personally always love blades that are made in Sweden. I left out the Avalox P-500 because it is a little more money but it is a great blade too. These blades all have plenty of speed, lots of control and a lot of dwell time so they are good blades to learn all the strokes and develop your technique.

I know that part of your consideration is price which, looking at Paddle Palace is probably why you gravitated towards the two you list. I see they have combo specials for each of them.

I also saw:

Stiga Offensive Classic combo special for $89.95. A few $ more than Tibhar Nimbus combo and a few $ less than Donic Epox combo. And

Yasaka Mark V Special Edition combo special $83.95. Less than Tibhar Numbus combo.

These two blades are very good blades but I don't personally love either of them. I would use them if I had them but they are not exactly what I look for in a blade. Whereas, the blades I listed above are all top notch blades that, if I had one of them, that is what I would use. The three Stiga blades are on my equipment junky next blades to get list. But those combo specials are good deals. That being said, I like getting exactly what I want. The feeling of a good wood blade that is just right for you is really great. Sorry if I presented an overwhelming amount of information.

I would say, your best bet in choosing equipment is to try as many setups as you can. Every so often you will have something in your hand that you can feel is made for you. As I get more experience playing what I look for in equipment has developed. But I still know what works for me. How do you get to try so many blades without buying them. Ask everyone you play with if you can see what their setup feels like. Tell them you are doing research before you buy yourself new gear. By doing that I have tried hundreds of blades and more than enough rubbers.

And it is fun to do.

And in the end, I am sure what ever you get will be a nice step up from what you have.

YosuaYosan · Jul 12, 2011

Carl Horowitz said:
One of the biggest mistakes I feel that newer players who are offensive make in getting a blade is to think that they should get a faster offensive rated blade. If you do not have the technique to put heavy spin on the ball and your ability to loop underspin is not solid you can slow your ability to develop those techniques with an offensive rated blade. The reason is that a faster, offensive rated blade will have less dwell time (the ball will not stay on the rubbers for as long) which means you will get significantly less spin. If you are already using a preassembled blade and are switching to a setup where you are choosing each individual part, the tool you get will be different enough from what you had for you to feel it is pretty fast.

I have to admit, for a long time when I would play with an offensive rated blade, I would love how it felt because I would just hit, and hit and hit, no loops, smashes, not much spin. But then I would play a game and not do that well. I did not realize it because it was what I was used to. I just was not good at looping underspin. When I went from an offensive blade to an Off- blade, (more control, more dwell time and more spin) I realized that I did not actually lose any power, I had to work a little harder for the power but I did not lose any. But my level jumped by over 100 points (USATT rating), just because I was getting so much more spin and getting so many more shots on the table. My receive of serve and short game are what improved the most. But those are the most important parts of the game.

For developing your strokes and your game, it is better to use an All+ or an Off- blade than an Off blade. When you get to a level like 2000 or 2100 then it is time to switch to a solid offensive blade. It is hard to get to a level like that without having VERY GOOD technique on all the basic shots. Therefore the faster blade would not stop you from learning to get heavy spin on loop attacks because you would already know how to do that.

So in short, if people are saying that the Donic Epox Offenisve is more like Off- and has a lot of control and is very consistent (that is what the reviews I saw said), then it might be a good blade to use. But here are some others that are really good, they are more than fast enough and have great control. These are not listed in any particular order. I just know all of these are good blades:

Donic Waldner Senso V1

Yasaka Gatien Extra

Butterfly Primorac

Stiga Allround Evolution

Stiga Energy WRB

Stiga Tube Allround WRB

These blades are all under $40.00 except for the Primorac which used to be $40.00 and now is $70.00. Butterfly likes to up their prices. They are all excellent blades. I personally always love blades that are made in Sweden. I left out the Avalox P-500 because it is a little more money but it is a great blade too. These blades all have plenty of speed, lots of control and a lot of dwell time so they are good blades to learn all the strokes and develop your technique.

I know that part of your consideration is price which, looking at Paddle Palace is probably why you gravitated towards the two you list. I see they have combo specials for each of them.

I also saw:

Stiga Offensive Classic combo special for $89.95. A few $ more than Tibhar Nimbus combo and a few $ less than Donic Epox combo. And

Yasaka Mark V Special Edition combo special $83.95. Less than Tibhar Numbus combo.

These two blades are very good blades but I don't personally love either of them. I would use them if I had them but they are not exactly what I look for in a blade. Whereas, the blades I listed above are all top notch blades that, if I had one of them, that is what I would use. The three Stiga blades are on my equipment junky next blades to get list. But those combo specials are good deals. That being said, I like getting exactly what I want. The feeling of a good wood blade that is just right for you is really great. Sorry if I presented an overwhelming amount of information.

I would say, your best bet in choosing equipment is to try as many setups as you can. Every so often you will have something in your hand that you can feel is made for you. As I get more experience playing what I look for in equipment has developed. But I still know what works for me. How do you get to try so many blades without buying them. Ask everyone you play with if you can see what their setup feels like. Tell them you are doing research before you buy yourself new gear. By doing that I have tried hundreds of blades and more than enough rubbers. And it is fun to do.

And in the end, I am sure what ever you get will be a nice step up from what you have.

Approved your post sire..
Wise words..

John_Pish · Jul 12, 2011

Thank you Carl, Great post, and thanks to everyone else. And i do agree about it kind of stunting my skill growth. but also this is a few months
down the line. I have played with a Timoboll off- with Sapphira, my Friend has it, it was his first blade which is fantastic, but now hes getting alot better and he needs to upgrade to offensive. and i have played with.
im am blanking on the blade but it had gambler on one side and nano spin on the other, its wasnt a super fast blade but i loved it cause it was light. and i want to do a combo simply for money reasons.
and ive heard mark v is a great rubber, but i do want an off blade, because i do still have my butterfly pre assembled and playing with it, its about as fast, a tad slower than my friends off- even tho it has an extra 2mm of sponge on both sides.
So i can always use that one to tune and improve my technique because its more of an off-
and if im going to be spending a good chunk of money im getting a off blade, with good rubber. And to yosua, you said to put T05 on it, and for one, thats gunna be way to much for me, 2 i cant afford it, and 3, no butterfly rubbers are in the combo specials. Grip S is there but i feel better with my choice of Genius.

And Carl i'll try as many as i can, but sadly ping pong isnt very big here.. there is one club we go to, but only every 3 weeks or so, its like 40 minutes away. but i'll try next time we go
thank you again everyone for the replies, More replies and opinions are very welcome

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 12, 2011

John_Pish said:
Im a newer player...very offensive, but my skill to make shots isnt equal to my knowledge. so a shot i would want to use i normally dont try cause im not confident in it.

I wanted to comment on this as well, but my original post was long enough. So here goes, in a post of its own.

If this is the case, I recommend you do as many serve and receive drills as you can. You might even consider not playing matches for a few weeks or even months and only do drills. The advantage of this is that you lose the old habits and train in the new habits and then the correct techniques just start happening because you have trained your muscle memory and response memory to do the correct technique and not the stuff you were doing that seemed to work, was "safer" but was keeping you from progressing.

Ideally with a serve and receive drill you have a practice partner who is close enough to your level or better than you. You have a bucket of balls (approximately a gross or 144 balls) and one person serves a whole bucket of balls and then you switch to the other person serving. Not everyone has the patience for a whole bucket of balls, but it is worth it. If you don't have the full bucket option you switch serves after 20, 15, 10, 5 or even 2. The most important part is that you are not counting points and you are trying to do the correct technique for a shot you might not try in a game circumstance. But the advantage of only switching after a whole bucket, or even two buckets, is that you start really getting into a rhythm which helps you improve much faster because you start feeling the right form and the way the rubber grabs the ball and when to accelerate your stroke to get the extra spin for looping underspin.

An example of a good serve and receive drill to start with would be:

1a) The first person serves a short underspin serve,
The second person pushes short to the center of the table,
The server tries to attack the third ball with the forehand to the opponent's backhand side.
After this you can either play out the point or choose to stop and start over. More fun to play out the point though.
If the ball is in the center of the table you can choose to attack with your forehand or backhand. But it is best on only work on one at a time at the beginning stages. When you are solid at looping short, heavy underspin from either side than you can mix things up.

1b) The first Person serves a short underspin serve,
The second person pushes short to the center of the table,
The server tries to attack the third ball with the forehand to the opponent's forehand side.

1c) The first person serves a short underspin serve,
The second person pushes short to the center of the table,
The server tries to attack the third ball with the backhand to the opponent's backhand side.

1d) The first person serves a short underspin serve,
The second person pushes short to the center of the table,
The server tries to attack the third ball with the backhand to the opponent's forehand side.

2) The first person serves short underspin to the forehand side (good for practicing pushing with forehand),
Second person pushes short to the backhand side,
Server attacks third ball, stepping around backhand to attack with a forehand loop hitting inside out cross court to opponents backhand side.

3) First person serves short underspin to the forehand side (also good for practicing serving short to the forehand side with a pendulum serve),
Second person pushes short to the backhand side,
First person attacks with a forehand down the line to the opponents forehand side.

4) First person serves short to the forehand side.
Second person pushes short tot he backhand side.
First person loop attacks with the backhand to the backhand side.

5) First person serves short to the forehand side.
Second person pushes short to the backhand side.
First person attacks with the backhand side.

You can see that this could systematically cover all options for Third Ball Attack.
Then at some point you would switch so that the person serving is mixing serves up and the person receiving the serve would be the one to attack.

After you can consistently loop the serve or the third ball with the forehand or the backhand when you KNOW where the ball is going then it is time to add the element of surprise and make it more like what would happen in a game, where the server can serve anywhere the person pushing can push anywhere and you get to choose what attack you want to use as you are in the middle of the action. Practicing drills like this without counting points really improves many skills including footwork, timing and learning how to attack underspin.

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 12, 2011

John_Pish said:
...and if im going to be spending a good chunk of money im getting a off blade, with good rubber.

And Carl i'll try as many as i can, but sadly ping pong isnt very big here.. there is one club we go to, but only every 3 weeks or so, its like 40 minutes away. but i'll try next time we go...

Totally understand and I am sure you will choose something good. There is nothing wrong with those combos. What every you get, you will use and I am sure you will love it. Good luck.

John_Pish · Jul 12, 2011

Thanks Carl, ive done multiball with my friend, who i keep mentioning. we have done 3 point forehand and backhand drives and such, but i dont get to do that much, but i'll be sure to do more when i see him again. thanks again for the input

But back to my original question

Epox or Nimbus?

YosuaYosan · Jul 12, 2011

Thanks alot Carl for being a great help here

Approved your post again

John_Pish · Jul 12, 2011

Also im debating now, i think i should get a different rubber for my backhand, something probably softer, Im thinking either Genius Sound or Nimbus Soft what are your thoughts

but im open to suggestions, Possibly one of the mark V series, any of those will save me money

Rhydian · Jul 12, 2011

Wow Carl! Your posts are not only helpful to John_Pish but surely for other players aswell (for me for example xD)
Thanks!!

I'd suggest the Epox or like Carl said the Donic Waldner Senso V1.
Both have great feel and control and speed!
Some friends of mine play with those blades, they say they're great for the offensive play while evolving!

John_Pish · Jul 12, 2011

Any suggestions on my last post Rhydian? and Carl is a great help i know

chughtai · Jul 13, 2011

Carl Horowitz that was some nice info will really help in my game as well ty

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 13, 2011

If it is just between those two blades I think the Epox, but I am sure both are fine. But the Yasaka Mark V Special combo (the Yasaka Mark V Special is a blade) is less $$ than either and might be better than either.

I think either of those rubbers you are looking at might be good as well. But if you are spending the extra $10.00 per sheet in the combo special on the rubber, you should also look at reviews for Razka 7, and Razka 7 Soft. A lot of people rave about that rubber (which is pretty new) as better than Tenergy for spin, speed, control.

One more thing. You wrote:

John_Pish said:
Thanks Carl, ive done multiball with my friend, who i keep mentioning. we have done 3 point forehand and backhand drives ...

You should know, multi ball drills are very different than serve and receive drills. Both are important. But they are different. In Dan Seemiller's book he says than any serious player should spend more than half his training time on serve and receive drills. When Waldner was interviewed after he came back from China when he was 15, he was asked what they had him do there. He said they just focused on serve and receive drills. Worth knowing.

Anders · Jul 13, 2011

I agree with you on the service and receive drills Carl

But about the Rakza's, I have tested the Rakza7 Soft and the Tengergy64. They are not the same! T64 is a way faster and spinnier rubber than the Rakza7 Soft, but one of my teammates has the Rakza7 not soft, and he is very happy with this

John_Pish · Jul 13, 2011

You should know, multi ball drills are very different than serve and receive drills. Both are important. But they are different. In Dan Seemiller's book he says than any serious player should spend more than half his training time on serve and receive drills. When Waldner was interviewed after he came back from China when he was 15, he was asked what they had him do there. He said they just focused on serve and receive drills. Worth knowing.

I wasnt disregarding the importance of it, i was simply telling you i've done muliti ball

the Razka 7 Soft seems to be really good, and i keep hearing about the Razka's constantly.

Rhydian · Jul 13, 2011

John_Pish said:
Any suggestions on my last post Rhydian? and Carl is a great help i know

Sorry there but I can't help you in choosing rubbers especially from Tibhar, I don't know them =X

John_Pish · Jul 14, 2011

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UpSideDownCarl · Jul 14, 2011

Anders said:
But about the Rakza's, I have tested the Rakza7 Soft and the Tengergy64. They are not the same! T64 is a way faster and spinnier rubber than the Rakza7 Soft, but one of my teammates has the Rakza7 not soft, and he is very happy with this

Yeah. Truthfully, I do not think anything really is that close to the Tenergy line. That is what I like better than anything else. And I only felt the Rakza 7 (not soft). And when I felt it, I thought it was pretty good. Not Tenergy for me. But I have heard and seen people review it as being "better" than Tenergy.

And since it was already stated that Tenergy was not an option because of the price range, I thought research about the Rakza 7 line might be useful for John_Pish, since in those combos he is looking at, it would cost the same as the rubbers he is contemplating.

One thing I have noticed about equipment though: if you have something that is decently good quality (all the equipment that John_Pish has been contemplating in this thread falls into this category), and you play with it for a while so that you get used to it and get a feel for how your equipment works, it starts to be what works for you at a certain point. Another thing I have noticed about equipment is that a player who is really good, can use something that is total garbage and play pretty well.

That being said, you don't want use inferior equipment to learn your technique. Having good equipment can help you improve your technique. That is also why I try to recommend All+ or Off- blades to players developing their technique. A friend who is a pro recommended I do that, and I cannot tell you how much it helped my game. Almost instantly my strokes improved.

And there is a real difference between a good blade that is Off- and blade that is from a pre-assembled racket that is the same speed but is not of the same quality craftsmanship. Somehow the Swedes know how to make all wood blades that are slow and controlled for touch and short game, and then kick into another gear when you dig into your strokes.

I know a another pro who was using the Stiga Energy Wood (Off-) till he was over 2300. I think Chen Chi uses the Energy Wood and look how much power he gets from a blade that is rated Off-. Kong Linghui used a blade that is rated Off- as well; talk about power, he had it. You can also get a lot more spin on loops with a good Off- blade.

Donic Epox Offensiv Or Tibhar Nimbus Offensive

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