Bh blade + rubber

Vrael · Nov 15, 2015

Hi,
I have tested few blades in last 12 months after I came back to table tennis. Right now I have pretty decent fh. From slow spinny loops to drives, but my bh is terrible. the onl ything I can do is block with it or kill the ball. I can't feel the moment when my rubber catches the ball while making top spin. It often ends in net or beyond the table (caus eof the falt trajectory). I have tried mizutani ZLC, innerfroce ZLC, carbonado 190, liu shiwen and now I am playing innerforce ZLF with tenergy 05 on fh and tenergy 05 fx on bh. I have also tried tibhar fx-p on bh. It is strange, but I have realized I can feel bh better with carbonado and innerforce zlc than blades with theoretically more "feel" like innerforce zlf, liu shiwen or tibhar force pro (all wood). I am now thinking about tibhar power wood, but I amafraid that my fh may suffer if I choose non composite blade. Right now when I play league matches I am covering all table with just fh and still managing to win. I would like to ask for reccomendation. What blade should I chose to not lose a lot on my fh power but would allow me to learn bh

Suga D · Nov 15, 2015

I've never heard of a BH blade before...

Sorry, i just couldn't resist...

Maybe lookin' in this thread here could be helpful...
http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?11608-Looking-for-a-new-faster-blade

PHP:

Suga D · Nov 15, 2015

These posts here cover much ground...

Paccheco said:
Thank god you friend doesnt has a ZJK SZLC

--
Of those you listed, Viscaria has the best feeling and touch, IMO.
But if you really like the feeling and touch of an all wood while wanting more speed, there is a whole bunch of blades that can suit your needs. You dont need a Primorac Carbon to support your offensive style, only if you re on suicide mission.

I think i caught what Carl was thinking. Such drastic change might hurt your technique: The famous T-Rex Loop.
If you are an aggressive player with an ALL wood, your swing oughta be wide, precise and fast. To compensate the new blade speed you will slowly downgrading your swing to maintain control.

-
As Anders said, its a huge step. Stiga Clipper or CR version, Extreme S, Ludeack, P700, Waldner Senso Carbon(this might actually be a nice blade for you), all of them will give you enough power for your needs while maintaining really good control and feeling.

As shakehand, im not a fully offensive player, controled offensive lets say. I started with an old TSP Chinese 5S, suddenly i bought a freaking nuts fast Rosewood and Ovtcharov Carbospeed, being the last long gone. Since then i constantly been downgrading speed while my game grew more offensive and consistent. Now im settled with Off- 5ply/7ply blades and off- rubbers too (Rakza 7 and Fastarc G-1)
The concept the >speed=the best is deceiving.Lots of player that i play have very good topspin game but cant do much on anything else due theirs amazingly fast blades like Schalarger or Primorac Carbon. Also, a little kid that used to train in my club had a very consistent game with a Senkoh 90 shakehand with 2 Omega IV Asia (that stuff is already a cannon imo) and as soon as he moved to other club he bought TBALC 2xt05. Since then, there were 6 stages of my local league and all of them he had miserable results than before. He either loops out of the table or cant control short game.

So, the best thing is keep trying out friends bats. Hit with it for good half hour. Talk with your coach about it, he actually might be the best person to help you since he knows your game better than anyone here. Go easy on your choice, do not be anxious or you will buy a lot of blades just to sell it 2 weeks later ( dear diary....).

Thoughtful,
Raul Pacheco.

UpSideDownCarl said:
Based on what I have read so far, you might be fine with a TBS for your FH but it would slow your development of becoming more solid looping with your BH.

Still, it might not be the right thing for your FH yet anyway.

This is what I think would probably be best for you: an all wood blade with the same or similar top ply and a similar wood construction as the Allround Classic but decently faster.

If you can find a Stiga Tube Offensive, that might be ideal. I would not get it with WRB though.

A Stiga Clipper would be on the faster side of acceptable. It wouldn't be the first choice in my opinion but it could work for you.

A Stiga Offensive Classic might be pretty nice for you though. 5 plies. Decent flex for looping pretty decent speed. Not slow but not too fast and the feel and flex of a 5 ply all wood blade.

On the more expensive side of things, a Nittaku Tenor, a Stiga Rosewood V or Rosewood XO also might be perfect for you.

Also, two of the blades I use might be perfect for you: the Tibhar Kim Jung Hoon and the OSP Virtuoso Plus.

If money isn't an object any of these would be ideal:

1) Tibhar Kim Jung Hoon
2) OSP Virtuoso Plus
3) Nittaku Tenor
4) Stiga Rosewood XO
5) Stiga Rosewood V

Or if money is an issue then one of these would be pretty darn good as well:

1) Stiga Tube Offensive
2) Stiga Offensive Classic
3) Stiga Clipper

As far as rubbers, I would start by using what you are using and only think about chasing what kind of rubbers you are using.

But at some point you should probably think about a rubber that grabs the ball and spins it better for your backhand so you can get the backhand loop into gear.

Good luck.

Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

Ilia Minkin said:
BTW, Simon Gerada, former Australian national team player, claims to use an ALL blade (see at 1:22).

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 16, 2015

Vrael is a pretty darn good player. I remember seeing video of him playing.

Vrael, have you tried ZJK ALC, TB ALC or Viscaria? You gave the IF ZLF a long time of trying it.

If you were going to get something all wood I would recommend something faster like a Stiga Clipper, a Nittaku Tenor or an OSP Virtuoso Plus.

But a TB ALC, or ZJK ALC may be better for you. A TB ZLF might be good for you too.

What blades have you tried from players at your club that you liked.

Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

josephluck · Nov 16, 2015

Tenergy 05fx might be a little too quick if you are struggling with BH technique, perhaps trying something a little slower will help

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

Vrael · Nov 16, 2015

UpSideDownCarl said:
Vrael is a pretty darn good player. I remember seeing video of him playing.

Vrael, have you tried ZJK ALC, TB ALC or Viscaria? You gave the IF ZLF a long time of trying it.

If you were going to get something all wood I would recommend something faster like a Stiga Clipper, a Nittaku Tenor or an OSP Virtuoso Plus.

But a TB ALC, or ZJK ALC may be better for you. A TB ZLF might be good for you too.

What blades have you tried from players at your club that you liked.

Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

Thanks for answer Carl,
I have not played with those blades yet. When I read about aralyt and zylon I thought that zylon or zylon/carbon blades would suit me better. Also noone in my club have ALC blade. I thought innerforce are giving more dwell and feel than timo Boll series. Why do You think they might suit me ? One of the wood blades I have tried istibhar stratus powerwood, but unfortunately everyone have very soft rubbers on it, so I still don't know how it would behave with tenergy. I have also tried tibhar force pro (blue version), but it felt a little like a hammer. I will look at the Clipper, tensor and Virtuoso Plus reviews, but I don't know anyone that plays them so it will be hard to test them.

guitch · Nov 16, 2015

Hi,

I also have a very good back-hand, but can bloc, drive and feel the ball what ever the blade. so I strongly suggest you work and your technic/feeling/touch-play more than on the wood

But in general, if you are looking for touch-play and feeling maybe you should orientate your choise on a less OFF+ blade

try an allwood OFF? of enven an ALL+ , just as a try during 1hour.
Once you got the feeling try to jump to a harder/faster blade.

Also, feeling and touch-play comes with a relaxed harm and hande

Anyway, I've played in the past with carbon and very fast blades, since I've moved back to OFF- then OFF I've gained few ranks, and can now seriously fight with some national players.

Also clipper wood is a heavy wood (mine is 98g!!), I had problems with it to flick the ball over the table on BH.

good luck

Vrael · Nov 16, 2015

Of course technic is most important here, I am not denying it, but I am thinking about the setup that would help me improve faster

Guitch, do you think stratus power wood, would be still too fast ? What soft rubber would be good ? I was looking at rakza 7 soft, rasant powersponge/grip and tibhar evolution fx-p. Should I also step down from my max thickness on bh ? I am training pretty often and I used to have really strong bh (I mean relativelly strong, not much weaker than my fh) before the break from table tennis, so now I am a little confused about it

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 16, 2015

Vrael said:
It is strange, but I have realized I can feel bh better with carbonado and innerforce zlc than blades with theoretically more "feel" like innerforce zlf, liu shiwen or tibhar force pro (all wood).

This is what I am keying on. When I looked at video of you I remember thinking your technique was pretty good, especially your FH and that you could be anywhere from USATT 2000-2300 and probably right in the middle at about 2100.

1st, do you still have access to the Carbonado or the Innerforce ZLC? Either of those may be fine for you.

2nd, when you try the Stratus Power Wood, regardless of the rubbers, do you get more feeling on BH than with the IF ZLF? Do you have enough pop when looping with FH?

3rd, how much and what drills do you do for BH technique?

I would recommend bucket after bucket of looping backspin with BH. It could be an In/Out drill like short backspin to FH for you to push or flip and then long backspin to BH for you to open. You could also set a good robot to feed heavy backspin to your BH like slimjimmi's videos. I will see if I can find one.

If you did 30-60 min of that a day, 3-4 days a week and about 5-10 min of mid distance looping of topspin with BH, in a few weeks to a month your BH would start becoming a weapon based on the level you are already playing at. I could be wrong but I think that would be more important than the racket for you. And it is possible you are better off with one of those Carbon blades you have tried.

Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 16, 2015

Hopefully this works.

slimjimmii said:
i have posted a tranings video where i play against a robot. the backspin i adjusted was very heavy, so i had to swing the backhand as fast as i can to bring the ball over the net. very exhausting also there some different camera positions to watch it, may be that helps a little bit to get an idea of how to do it. but i have to say that my backhand is not really safe... have to practice more.

Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

Suga D · Nov 16, 2015

Sorry, but i don't agree on carbon blade here. Vrael has been considering himself that an allwood blade could help him improve bis bh.
And as far as i've read he wants to sort of rebuild his bh to the former strength. Therefore i linked that thread. You don't necessarily need a carbon blade to gain tempo.

Rather in case of rebuilding i would recommend an allwood blade to help grow the feeling for his bh.
On the other hand your advising with practicing the bh is gold. But still i think an allwood blade would be more helpful than those listed rocket launchers... IMHO

SpinWins · Nov 16, 2015

Why does everyone put soft rubber on the Powerwood?

Ilia Minkin · Nov 16, 2015

What blade should I chose to not lose a lot on my fh power but would allow me to learn bh

Why do you think that the current blade prevents you from learning BH? If your FH is really good, then you should have good general understanding on how and when to spin and drive and how contact with the ball on those shots look like. All you gotta do is to transfer and adapt this knowledge to BH and practice.

Vrael · Nov 16, 2015

UpSideDownCarl said:
This is what I am keying on. When I looked at video of you I remember thinking your technique was pretty good, especially your FH and that you could be anywhere from USATT 2000-2300 and probably right in the middle at about 2100.

1st, do you still have access to the Carbonado or the Innerforce ZLC? Either of those may be fine for you.

2nd, when you try the Stratus Power Wood, regardless of the rubbers, do you get more feeling on BH than with the IF ZLF? Do you have enough pop when looping with FH?

3rd, how much and what drills do you do for BH technique?

I would recommend bucket after bucket of looping backspin with BH. It could be an In/Out drill like short backspin to FH for you to push or flip and then long backspin to BH for you to open. You could also set a good robot to feed heavy backspin to your BH like slimjimmi's videos. I will see if I can find one.

If you did 30-60 min of that a day, 3-4 days a week and about 5-10 min of mid distance looping of topspin with BH, in a few weeks to a month your BH would start becoming a weapon based on the level you are already playing at. I could be wrong but I think that would be more important than the racket for you. And it is possible you are better off with one of those Carbon blades you have tried.

Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

1st. Yes, I still have access to Cabonado and Innerforce ZLC. Today I played with ZLC today and now I am sure I prefer ZLF.

2nd. I had much more feeling with Stratus, but it had rasant powersponge and rasant grip, not tenergy 05, and it is hard to compare.

3rd
for example short underspin serve then bh top spin from underspin, bh topspin from block and then fh top spin from bhside, falkenberg. At least 3 times a monthfor 15-20 min. And some bh loops in other exercises

Vrael · Nov 16, 2015

Ilia Minkin said:
Why do you think that the current blade prevents you from learning BH? If your FH is really good, then you should have good general understanding on how and when to spin and drive and how contact with the ball on those shots look like. All you gotta do is to transfer and adapt this knowledge to BH and practice.

The problem is that I can't grab the ball with my bh, it always has flat trajectory and goes straight into the net or beyond the table. It is quite funny, cause I am failing many bh in the matches, but sometimes when I grab and feel the ball it is the killer, so I am trying to play more regular bh top spins during training, but I still can't feel it

NextLevel · Nov 16, 2015

SpinWins said:
Why does everyone put soft rubber on the Powerwood?

I don't.

NextLevel · Nov 16, 2015

Vrael said:
The problem is that I can't grab the ball with my bh, it always has flat trajectory and goes straight into the net or beyond the table. It is quite funny, cause I am failing many bh in the matches, but sometimes when I grab and feel the ball it is the killer, so I am trying to play more regular bh top spins during training, but I still can't feel it

Improving a weakness usually needs a slower blade, not faster.

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 16, 2015

Suga D said:
Sorry, but i don't agree on carbon blade here. Vrael has been considering himself that an allwood blade could help him improve bis bh.

Hey Suga D, how often do you hear me actually recommend Carbon? Read the quote I took from Vrael's first post. That is part of what made me think one of his prior Carbon blades might be better. Also, Vrael and I had a decent round of PMs when he was trying to figure out if he should keep the IF ZLF or go for another blade. That was about 6 months ago I think.

However, based on Vrael's answers to my questions, you may be correct anyway:

Vrael said:
1st. Yes, I still have access to Cabonado and Innerforce ZLC. Today I played with ZLC today and now I am sure I prefer ZLF.

Cool. That is one thing settled.

Vrael said:
2nd. I had much more feeling with Stratus, but it had rasant powersponge and rasant grip, not tenergy 05, and it is hard to compare.

It gives me enough information. If the Stratus Power Wood did not feel too slow with those rubbers, then go for it. It will only feel better and faster with Tenergy. It is a good 5 ply all wood blade. Also, it is not that expensive a blade and will always be a good training blade.

Vrael said:
3rd
for example short underspin serve then bh top spin from underspin, bh topspin from block and then fh top spin from bhside, falkenberg. At least 3 times a monthfor 15-20 min. And some bh loops in other exercises

Well, I am thinking you should be doing a drill where every shot, or every other shot you are looping decently heavy backspin with your BH.

The In/Out drill I was referring to may be useful. But it also might be useful to do a few buckets at a time of just looping backspin over and over with BH also.

The In/Out drill I am talking about is like this but with the out ball to the deep backhand so you have to set your feet and then open off of the backhand.

Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

Suga D · Nov 16, 2015

You don't even need to buy a new blade. Why don't you just try that bty kiso hinoki of yours.
It should be good for looping...

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 16, 2015

Suga D said:
You don't even need to buy a New blade. Just try that kiso hinoki of your.
It should be good for looping...

This actually may be an amazingly good idea. Hinoki is great for the touch of looping. Especially those old 5 ply ones Butterfly doesn't make any more. They loop like a dream.

Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

Bh blade + rubber

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