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View Full Version : Forehand finish down the Line - Training



agold
11-24-2015, 01:14 AM
Hi everyone. In the past months I've developed a more solid backhand and moved my level to consistently play at at least 1750. But I have a problem that is really bringing my level down.

My tactics are at a significantly higher level than my gameplay. I am consistent on both sides normally (until I found this problem starting to occur) and I set up shots to kill very well. That's why I normally win points on 4th/5th ball, rather than 2nd/4th (I don't have the star speedy put away). But in the past month, I've found that in match play I've set up points very well, where I have a large opening down the line for an easy finish, but I always either go long or hit it into the net (I'm a lefty). Obviously, because the distance is shorter, to have the same speed on the ball I need more spin on the ball. So theoretically I know how to fix the problem.

But it's very hard for me to train. The situation arises only when there's a very light topspin not that deep to my forehand. I'm having trouble replicating it in training, even with serve and attack. And in match play I just mess it up without learning.

How can I train this shot? I know this is a weird question, especially without a video. I may have a video of a point where I do this though. If I find one I will post it on here. Thanks for your help

Der_Echte
11-24-2015, 05:01 AM
A Couple of questions to clarify...

Are you in your BH corner and the ball comes at your crossover, so you have to step around your BH corner to play a FH shot... and the down the line shot you are talking about is it from your BH line straight down the table from there?

OR...

Are you near your BH corner or middle of table and opponent gives you a ball to your FH corner... and you have to take a small or medium step to get to the ball the shot you want to make is to shoot it down the line from your FH corner down the line...

Totally different for each situation. Look at teh Kim Jung Hoon vids I gisted, there are several where KJH shows how to step around and use 70/80 percent power, or 100 percent power. If you are stepping around your BH corner, you need to get around the corner and a bit to the front in open stance, so the back part of your hip is even with the endline or an inch forward. This puts you in position to hit most of the balls coming to your BH corner either way. if you want 100% kill power, you (being a lefty) will throw your right leg to side and use all your trunk and explode and move out to the side. 70/80% ball you transfer power forward. You take the ball in the prime part of your strike zone.

If you are moving to get to a ball in your FH corner and want to just send it down the line (NOT crosscourt like natural angle) then you are in position balanced/crouched and wait for the ball to come deeper into your strike zone. This allows you to hit with full power and control as well as deceive opponent where you are going with the ball. You are NOT squaring your body in hte direction of that down the line course, you simply take it deeper in your strike zone before impacting it.

You could also square your body to where you intend to hit it and take hte ball in the prime part of strike zone. You could also try to mess with arm position and how much you open your wrist right before impact. Posible to impact the ball that way, but it is difficult to hit with power and spin and still be consistent doing it that way. Ironically, this is really effective easy consistent in dealing with a short receive bump or flick.

I suspect you are inconsistent on this kind of ball, because you have a problem with waiting for the ball to come to the right part of strike zone or you didn't get into position right. it is also possible to misread the ball and THINK it will kick out more, so you position yourself a bit too far back given the light ball. This leads to impacting the ball way too far in front of body in front of zone and that is difficult to control the shot doing it that way. When you recognize early enough it is not heavy topspin and will not kick, just take another half hop step forward and you will then be in position and on time to it it where you want.

This can happen to you if you face someone (like Rich Dewitt) who does a good job of varying hand pressure at impact to kill the spin and maybe a little pace taken off (which suckers you into being a bit too far back and off time), can happen when you face pips players, and also when you face players who do not impact the ball true just yet.

if I make it to NYC for Der_Echte V4.0 adventure, I'll show you in person. Prolly, you will run into Carl or Next Level they will show you.

I think in this situation you describe, moving your position a bit more forward will make your landing percentages shoot up vs these balls you are trying to kill down the line in the manner you describe.

Der_Echte
11-24-2015, 05:13 AM
But it's very hard for me to train. The situation arises only when there's a very light topspin not that deep to my forehand. I'm having trouble replicating it in training, even with serve and attack. And in match play I just mess it up without learning.

Looking at Ur post again, I suspect the ball you are getting and want to go down the line does not kick back as far as you expect and are now off time and out of position a little or a lot.

How can you train that one ball ... ???

Have a partner do a single ball drill (if he can really put brakes on spin or speed for you) or multi ball feed you this ball as a slow light to no spin ball landing where it gives you trouble. You practice recognizing this ball, and move your position forward more than you were and impact the ball in the prime of impact zone. If you are stepping around the corner to play a down the line shot, throwing open your non-hitting shoulder before impact gives you a little more power (think 80 over 70%) and lets you take the ball earlier than you were showing.

I think it comes down to recognizing what the opponent is giving you... and some opponents are special good at fooling you into thinking the ball has something it doesn't... (cough cough Richard Dewitt and Roundrobin from Los Angeles on MyTT and OOAK forums)) and by the time you unconsciously recognize it, then it is too late, you are off time and reaching for the ball.

Ilia Minkin
11-24-2015, 02:10 PM
Hi everyone. In the past months I've developed a more solid backhand and moved my level to consistently play at at least 1750. But I have a problem that is really bringing my level down.

My tactics are at a significantly higher level than my gameplay. I am consistent on both sides normally (until I found this problem starting to occur) and I set up shots to kill very well. That's why I normally win points on 4th/5th ball, rather than 2nd/4th (I don't have the star speedy put away). But in the past month, I've found that in match play I've set up points very well, where I have a large opening down the line for an easy finish, but I always either go long or hit it into the net (I'm a lefty). Obviously, because the distance is shorter, to have the same speed on the ball I need more spin on the ball. So theoretically I know how to fix the problem.

But it's very hard for me to train. The situation arises only when there's a very light topspin not that deep to my forehand. I'm having trouble replicating it in training, even with serve and attack. And in match play I just mess it up without learning.

How can I train this shot? I know this is a weird question, especially without a video. I may have a video of a point where I do this though. If I find one I will post it on here. Thanks for your help

This may help


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgkIsEjtink

Paccheco
11-24-2015, 02:31 PM
Holy freakin smoak @Ilia Minkin !
Thanks so much for this video. I always had troubles with down the line FHs. Always. When it not went almost in the mid of the table, i missed long due unwanted sidespin.

Just...thanks!

Ilia Minkin
11-24-2015, 05:18 PM
Holy freakin smoak @Ilia Minkin !
Thanks so much for this video. I always had troubles with down the line FHs. Always. When it not went almost in the mid of the table, i missed long due unwanted sidespin.

Just...thanks!

Glad that I helped. Honestly, I myself struggle to to hit strong forehands from FH corner down the line (yet).

Ilia Minkin
11-24-2015, 05:21 PM
But it's very hard for me to train. The situation arises only when there's a very light topspin not that deep to my forehand. I'm having trouble replicating it in training, even with serve and attack.

Multiball! Multiball! With it, you can model any situation.

Tinykin
12-04-2015, 01:51 PM
Multi-ball and X/H practice. A robot is very handy for this. Or if none of the above is available, then simply take a box of balls and hit cross - court and down the line.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

UpSideDownCarl
12-05-2015, 02:42 PM
There is a drill I do where one person is looping, the other person is blocking. First loop is cross court, second loop is down the line. Both players have to adjust to ball placement. Blocking player has to move from FH to BH. Looping player needs footwork to get body the correct angle for each shot (cross and down the line).

If it is down the line from BH side you can also do loop from BH side cross then down the line to train that angle.

Both drills give you much more control of placement with your loops.

Since you are talking about short topspins, you try to get your training partner to loop short.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

Der_Echte
12-07-2015, 03:03 AM
Another aspect could be that Abe simply needs to be positioned a little more to the front to make the shot either way. This positioning gives a player the ability to take it in the prime of the zone and go cross court (from FH corner to FH corner vs a RH player) or wait a bit so ball is deeper in the strike zone and nail it straight down the RH player's BH line. Good positioning gives one the ability to hit it either way, and you show an opponent you can hit it at will either way, you can freeze them or make them guess and show their intent early.

Often, a dead or light ball just won't bounce as far back as your mind prepares for, so you hang back a little too far. Abe likes to play from a step or two away from table and is vulnerable to a player with softish shot if he isn't seeing them in time. It is a possible reason for inconsistency vs the ball he describes, but I would have to see Abe live to know.

Abe, I would like to make another NYC adventure in December of January, so we can get another awesum forum gathering going and we can go over this scenario with you. Heck, you might be fighting for U1900 by them at Westchester. Be advised, my official rating dropped to just under 1900 at Xiom Fall Open (Lost to owners son after defeating him twice, he played hiz mind out and earned a win) so lookout for me.