Which rubbers are really good at lifting underspin?

ridderz65 · Nov 24, 2015

Hi everyone,

I play with long pimples on my BH and I play a chopping game with them. This means quite often opponents will push or chop to my FH to avoid my pimples.
Once this happens I like to try and lift the push/chop with a spinny attacking shot. So I am often lifting chops and pushes in an attacking manner.

Which FH inverted rubber excels at lifting underspin?

NextLevel · Nov 24, 2015

Look for rubbers without catapult or with relatively hard sponges if you want to powerloop the backspin ball. The point is that underspin is usually looped with a more vertical stroke so catapult make the loop harder to calibrate. So rubbers like Evolution MX-S, Baracuda, H3 etc. tend to work well here.

Pnachtwey · Nov 24, 2015

It is technique, not rubber, that returns under spin balls.
I bet the OP's rubber is fine.
I suggest the OP let a known good player show you how to loop back under spin with the OP's paddle.

@NextLevel, catapult, bah. Find me an equation that uses the term catapult. Try COR instead and then show us how higher or lower COR affects returning under spin balls. Stop perpetuating myths.

NextLevel · Nov 24, 2015

Pnachtwey said:
It is technique, not rubber, that returns under spin balls.
I bet the OP's rubber is fine.
I suggest the OP let a known good player show you how to loop back under spin with the OP's paddle.

@NextLevel, catapult, bah. Find me an equation that uses the term catapult. Try COR instead and then show us how higher or lower COR affects returning under spin balls. Stop perpetuating myths.

Like all good teachers, I speak in terms people understand. It is more important for me in life to be helpful to someone than to communicate with scientific precision. Since that answer has been given to you by other smart people as well, I hope you will one day appreciate it.

I have seen Ridderz play and we both play at a significantly higher level than you. Lecturing us about technique is not the best option here.

ridderz65 · Nov 24, 2015

Thank you for that

very helpful.
How do I know if the rubber has catapult or not?
Is it better to have as spinnier rubber as possible for lifting underspin?
Do you have any suggestions that really excel above the rest?

anchorschmidt · Nov 24, 2015

If you are not that fast and if your footwork isn't great, then don't get a very hard sponge and don't use a tacky rubber.

Nextlevel is right that a harder sponge is good for powerlooping the ball but if you want to do a slow spinny topspin then a medium rubber is better.

Der_Echte · Nov 24, 2015

Hmmm... I would say my legs are the best rubber for lifting underspin with a grippy topsheet in max thickness.

bachikho · Nov 25, 2015

+1 for H3

NextLevel · Nov 25, 2015

ridderz65 said:
Thank you for that very helpful.
How do I know if the rubber has catapult or not?
Is it better to have as spinnier rubber as possible for lifting underspin?
Do you have any suggestions that really excel above the rest?

I listed three rubbers! Add in maybe Adidas P7 as well.

Inkognito · Nov 25, 2015

I would say it's mostly about the technique. Rubbers I find as a good help for lifting hard backspin: Stiga Airoc M & S, Stiga Airoc Astro M & S, Adidas P7. Adidas Tenzone Ultra, Butterfly Tenergy 05 & 05 FX, Cornilleau Pro-GT 47, Donic Baracuda, Donic Bluefire series, Tibhar 5Q series, Tibhar Evolution series, Yasaka Rakza series and the majority of chinese tacky rubbers (boosted or preboosted in factory). Short list, have a few more but think this will be sufficient.

TT-Chris · Nov 25, 2015

Tibhar Evolution MX S is a very good rubber to lift underspin. Hard sponge but it feels not hard because of the soft rubber. Massive Spin and a really good short game.

Airoc · Nov 25, 2015

I support TT-Chris´ point and would like to add that the same goes for Hurricane 3-50 which is considerably cheaper.

Inkognito has published a nice list as well, and he is also right with his very first sentence. I have a friend who produces heavy underspin as a defence player, and then when he gets it back from the opponent will play a spinnier and faster topspin with Tackiness C in 1.7 than I can achieve with any modern rubber.

NextLevel · Nov 25, 2015

I can't believe anyone would list Airoc as a good backspin lifting rubber unless they were a Stiga sock puppet.

NextLevel · Nov 25, 2015

TT-Chris said:
Tibhar Evolution MX S is a very good rubber to lift underspin. Hard sponge but it feels not hard because of the soft rubber. Massive Spin and a really good short game.

A chopper used MX-S once and took off his rubber at the time (T64 - he didn't like T05 because it didn't fit his blocking game) immediately. When he was asked why, he said, "I have never seen anything attack backspin AND block as well as this."

Airoc · Nov 25, 2015

NextLevel said:
I can't believe anyone would list Airoc as a good backspin lifting rubber unless they were a Stiga sock puppet.

Well I think Stiga have quality control issues. I chose my user name because at the time I was playing with an Airoc rubber that was among the best things I had ever had. Precision like a sat nav, excellent spin production, good speed and control.

I was wondering why noone else shared the excitement and let other players try my rubber, to the same effect, extreme satisfaction (this extended to a player within our national top 100 who wouldn´t be easily fooled).

THEN a contract player said black Airocs were good at the time, red weren´t.

And sure enough I wasn´t as satisfied with both my next Airoc rubbers.

Buying Airoc is some sort of lottery, it seems, and the foul apples seem to be in wide circulation.

Btw, the same player mentioned above now says the Astro versions are good and have none of these quality issues.

necax007 · Nov 25, 2015

NextLevel said:
Like all good teachers, I speak in terms people understand. It is more important for me in life to be helpful to someone than to communicate with scientific precision. Since that answer has been given to you by other smart people as well, I hope you will one day appreciate it.

I have seen Ridderz play and we both play at a significantly higher level than you. Lecturing us about technique is not the best option here.

eheheh! BURN!

TTHopeful · Nov 26, 2015

Yes I would recommend H3 Neo or something. Defenders seem to use tacky on forehand because they can defend/chop with it quite easily to.

Inkognito · Nov 26, 2015

NextLevel said:
I can't believe anyone would list Airoc as a good backspin lifting rubber unless they were a Stiga sock puppet.

I am/maybe was a big EJ, class 2 almost class 1 player in Sweden (I play for fun). Tested alot of rubbers and played with all from Barcauda, Bluefire to Tenergy 05. With the old ball I used Baracuda and then upgraded to Tenergy 05 and with the polyball I now use Airoc Astro (Cornilleau Target Pro-GT 47 and Airoc M before). Airoc series suits me and many others pretty well, and seem quite popular (I have sold alot). If the old ball would come back then the Airoc series would be total rubbish but with the polyball I prefer it. I don't say Tenergy 05 is bad with the polyball, just that the advantage compared to other fabrics got lost/less. I see many players today who instead use/used Adidas P7 and Tenzone series, Donic Baracuda and Bluefire series, Andro Rasant series, Stiga Airoc series, Cornilleau Target Pro series, Tibhar Evolution and 5Q series, Xiom Sigma, Omega and Vega series etc. The rubbers with good grip and a medium to a high arc helps alot to lift backspin, and I like playing choppers with my medium arc Airoc Astros (no boost needed)

Baracuda vs Airoc Astro, I would say Baracuda and the great arc it produce is a better choice for lifting backspin. But I kinda lacked the power while playing Baracuda even if I used a Butterfly Photino blade due to my shoulder injury, why I instead use/tested Tenergy 05, Bluefire M1, Pro GT-47, MX-P and finally my Airoc Astro M. If I would say a bad thing about the Airoc series then I would point out the disadvantage of poor to no effect from boosters but that don't apply to me who don't boost.

NextLevel · Nov 27, 2015

Inkognito said:
I am/maybe was a big EJ, class 2 almost class 1 player in Sweden (I play for fun). Tested alot of rubbers and played with all from Barcauda, Bluefire to Tenergy 05. With the old ball I used Baracuda and then upgraded to Tenergy 05 and with the polyball I now use Airoc Astro (Cornilleau Target Pro-GT 47 and Airoc M before). Airoc series suits me and many others pretty well, and seem quite popular (I have sold alot). If the old ball would come back then the Airoc series would be total rubbish but with the polyball I prefer it. I don't say Tenergy 05 is bad with the polyball, just that the advantage compared to other fabrics got lost/less. I see many players today who instead use/used Adidas P7 and Tenzone series, Donic Baracuda and Bluefire series, Andro Rasant series, Stiga Airoc series, Cornilleau Target Pro series, Tibhar Evolution and 5Q series, Xiom Sigma, Omega and Vega series etc. The rubbers with good grip and a medium to a high arc helps alot to lift backspin, and I like playing choppers with my medium arc Airoc Astros (no boost needed)

Baracuda vs Airoc Astro, I would say Baracuda and the great arc it produce is a better choice for lifting backspin. But I kinda lacked the power while playing Baracuda even if I used a Butterfly Photino blade due to my shoulder injury, why I instead use/tested Tenergy 05, Bluefire M1, Pro GT-47, MX-P and finally my Airoc Astro M. If I would say a bad thing about the Airoc series then I would point out the disadvantage of poor to no effect from boosters but that don't apply to me who don't boost.

I apologize - a sock puppet would never make such a personal post.

Which rubbers are really good at lifting underspin?

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