The butterfly viscaria.

kavinx2001@gmail.com · Jan 16, 2016

I always see junk about how certain viscarias are different than others. Or some people get lucky when buying viscaria models or some people get duds. Is this true? I'm thinking of buying one off of megaspin and I don't wanna waste my money. Thank you very much!

Old School · Jan 16, 2016

Personally I don't put a lot of stock in the "Fish scale Viscaria are the best" but that is up to you to decide.

changed_23 · Jan 16, 2016

Its just a piece of colored wood. For 100$+??

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achalwins94 · Jan 16, 2016

crayon128 said:
Its just a piece of colored wood. For 100$+??

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Yeah,which is used by majority chinese leading players.

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kavinx2001@gmail.com · Jan 16, 2016

OK but that doesn't answer my question... At all

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Grandpa · Jan 16, 2016

[email protected] said:
OK but that doesn't answer my question... At all

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

The main differences pointed out are:

1. The blade's weight.
2. Which production series it is
3. Whether it has a particular scaly look to the outer plies.

3. Unless we know whether the fish scale woods are actually different to non-fish scale woods, it's hard to say if there's much difference. Probably not though, and I wouldn't worry about this.
2. Yes, probably there is some difference. However, you should not worry about this. You'll just end up paying through the roof if you want a old model for little playing benefit, especially if price is a big concern of yours.
1. Of course there will be differences in a Viscaria weighing 95 grams and one weighing 85 grams. Since they're all almost the same size and thickness, this indicates enough of a density change in the wood to be worth some attention. Plus it changes the balance of the blade enough for anyone who cares about their blade's weight distribution. It also increases the weight of your bat by about 5%, assuming modern inverted rubbers on both sides. This will make a noticeable but not huge difference in the speed of the blade. You can't go too wrong by getting a blade that weighs around the middle of the typical range.

kavinx2001@gmail.com · Jan 16, 2016

Grandpa said:
The main differences pointed out are:

1. The blade's weight.
2. Which production series it is
3. Whether it has a particular scaly look to the outer plies.

3. Unless we know whether the fish scale woods are actually different to non-fish scale woods, it's hard to say if there's much difference. Probably not though, and I wouldn't worry about this.
2. Yes, probably there is some difference. However, you should not worry about this. You'll just end up paying through the roof if you want a old model for little playing benefit, especially if price is a big concern of yours.
1. Of course there will be differences in a Viscaria weighing 95 grams and one weighing 85 grams. Since they're all almost the same size and thickness, this indicates enough of a density change in the wood to be worth some attention. Plus it changes the balance of the blade enough for anyone who cares about their blade's weight distribution. It also increases the weight of your bat by about 5%, assuming modern inverted rubbers on both sides. This will make a noticeable but not huge difference in the speed of the blade. You can't go too wrong by getting a blade that weighs around the middle of the typical range.

Thank you! So you think if I buy off of megaspin it'll be pretty good?

Grandpa · Jan 16, 2016

[email protected] said:
Thank you! So you think if I buy off of megaspin it'll be pretty good?

I've never used megaspin, but they seem to be well regarded on the forums and I would personally have no issues buying from them. Just think a little about what weight you want, and then contact them to see if they have that weight. I'd also check that the weight they've said they'll send out is the one you've received, if you have access to a suitable set of scales. What previous experience with blades have you had and what preferences do you have? That might help people give you some advice on what weight range to shoot for.

cakezxc280 · Jan 16, 2016

Depends on how sensitive you are to the touch of the blade.

Its the same as "why are people buying T-05 and not MX-P while they are similar in terms of spin and speed?"

Some people cant even tell between ALC and ZLC, let alone big and small scale patterns on Koto outer plies.
The difference here is that the balls stays a tad longer (somewhat softer) on small scale than big scale patterned koto outer ply and the feel of the ball is somewhat more delicate too. This means better shot "quality" (as we call it in chinese) when using the same stroke and amount of force.

Came across quite a few viscarias including custom made ones, would try them first before checking for the pattern. Mostly with T05.

Also, dont bother with Viscaria now that they are renewed with the new BTY branding. I haven't seen a single one that i'd buy myself. And I've seen quite a few of them too. For some reason they are a bit heavier (most i saw are around 88/9) and feels more dull now. And the handle is more purple than before. Oh and that fugly new BTY logo on the alu plate too. Ugh.

If you're looking for something similar, id say Xiom Stradivarius (if you can still find one, that is).

Just keep in mind, using something that the majority of CNT use wont make you better automatically

kavinx2001@gmail.com · Jan 17, 2016

cakezxc280 said:
Depends on how sensitive you are to the touch of the blade.

Its the same as "why are people buying T-05 and not MX-P while they are similar in terms of spin and speed?"

Some people cant even tell between ALC and ZLC, let alone big and small scale patterns on Koto outer plies.
The difference here is that the balls stays a tad longer (somewhat softer) on small scale than big scale patterned koto outer ply and the feel of the ball is somewhat more delicate too. This means better shot "quality" (as we call it in chinese) when using the same stroke and amount of force.

Came across quite a few viscarias including custom made ones, would try them first before checking for the pattern. Mostly with T05.

Also, dont bother with Viscaria now that they are renewed with the new BTY branding. I haven't seen a single one that i'd buy myself. And I've seen quite a few of them too. For some reason they are a bit heavier (most i saw are around 88/9) and feels more dull now. And the handle is more purple than before. Oh and that fugly new BTY logo on the alu plate too. Ugh.

If you're looking for something similar, id say Xiom Stradivarius (if you can still find one, that is).

Just keep in mind, using something that the majority of CNT use wont make you better automatically [emoji14]

OK thank you. My style is aggressive looping close and far from the table. Do you think that'll be suitable? (Stradivarius)

UpSideDownCarl · Jan 17, 2016

So, here are the actual issues with different Viscarias. Grandpa really gave the important nuts and bolts of this. But, the way I say it may help and make it even clearer.

The older Viscarias are better because they were made heavier. The ones they make now, more of them, weigh less. Like now you find many more weighing between 80-85 grams. Many more of the older ones weigh between 90-95 grams.

A blade that weighs more invariably has BETTER FEELING. That is right. If you have 20 Viscaria blades and 10 weigh 80 grams and the other 10 weigh 92 grams, all 10 of the 92 gram Viscarias will play and feel significantly better than the 10 80 gram blades. The 10 80 gram blades will not feel anywhere near as good which is a much bigger issue than the fact that the lighter blades will also be slower.

This is because the denser wood is more solid and gives the right kind of vibrations for feeling and the lighter ones give more of the kind of vibrations you don't want that make the blade feel sort of hollow or empty.

The fish scales thing, that is actually just a particular cut of wood. A regular cut of Koto will not have the 3 dimensional pattern that gets called "fish scales". That is a cut called quarter sawn. It costs more because you can only make so many cuts of that angle. And because it looks cool. But it doesn't actually change how the wood performs.

Another thing that does change the way a Viscaria would play is that the older ones from back when some Butterfly blades were made with black tags instead of silver, that was a different outsource company that made the black tag blades than the new outsource company that makes the new Viscarias. A black tag Viscaria may be a thing of the past. But, those are the ones that play best.

However, Baal says that the new ZJK ALC blades play more like the old Viscarias. So that might be something to think about.

But if you can get a Viscaria that is between 89-95 grams, that is going to be a good blade.

It is also okay to know that most top pros use blades that weigh between 90-95 grams. But, you have to be strong enough to still reset fast enough with that weight. So for players who train less than 3-4 days a week slightly lighter is better for most.

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UpSideDownCarl · Jan 17, 2016

[email protected] said:
OK thank you. My style is aggressive looping close and far from the table. Do you think that'll be suitable? (Stradivarius)

I personally don't like the way the Stradivarius feels. Nowhere near as good as a good Viscaria.

Also, quarter sawn Koto ("fish scales"), the cut looks cool, but it shouldn't change the playing characteristics of the wood. That might be a plecebo effect that people think it feels better if they know the blades top ply has "fish scale" grain pattern on its top ply.

Hopefully Baal will see this thread and reply. He is a real expert on the Viscaria. He has been using that blade for a long time.

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darnner123 · Jan 17, 2016

idk about blades much but heavy>light

Unknown · Jan 17, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
So, here are the actual issues with different Viscarias. Grandpa really gave the important nuts and bolts of this. But, the way I say it may help and make it even clearer.

The older Viscarias are better because they were made heavier. The ones they make now, more of them, weigh less. Like now you find many more weighing between 80-85 grams. Many more of the older ones weigh between 90-95 grams.

A blade that weighs more invariably has BETTER FEELING. That is right. If you have 20 Viscaria blades and 10 weigh 80 grams and the other 10 weigh 92 grams, all 10 of the 92 gram Viscarias will play and feel significantly better than the 10 80 gram blades. The 10 80 gram blades will not feel anywhere near as good which is a much bigger issue than the fact that the lighter blades will also be slower.

This is because the denser wood is more solid and gives the right kind of vibrations for feeling and the lighter ones give more of the kind of vibrations you don't want that make the blade feel sort of hollow or empty.

The fish scales thing, that is actually just a particular cut of wood. A regular cut of Koto will not have the 3 dimensional pattern that gets called "fish scales". That is a cut called quarter sawn. It costs more because you can only make so many cuts of that angle. And because it looks cool. But it doesn't actually change how the wood performs.

Another thing that does change the way a Viscaria would play is that the older ones from back when some Butterfly blades were made with black tags instead of silver, that was a different outsource company that made the black tag blades than the new outsource company that makes the new Viscarias. A black tag Viscaria may be a thing of the past. But, those are the ones that play best.

However, Baal says that the new ZJK ALC blades play more like the old Viscarias. So that might be something to think about.

But if you can get a Viscaria that is between 89-95 grams, that is going to be a good blade.

It is also okay to know that most top pros use blades that weigh between 90-95 grams. But, you have to be strong enough to still reset fast enough with that weight. So for players who train less than 3-4 days a week slightly lighter is better for most.

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Well said Mass plays an important role in blades performance.

Giangt · Jan 17, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
So, here are the actual issues with different Viscarias. Grandpa really gave the important nuts and bolts of this. But, the way I say it may help and make it even clearer.

The older Viscarias are better because they were made heavier. The ones they make now, more of them, weigh less. Like now you find many more weighing between 80-85 grams. Many more of the older ones weigh between 90-95 grams.

A blade that weighs more invariably has BETTER FEELING. That is right. If you have 20 Viscaria blades and 10 weigh 80 grams and the other 10 weigh 92 grams, all 10 of the 92 gram Viscarias will play and feel significantly better than the 10 80 gram blades. The 10 80 gram blades will not feel anywhere near as good which is a much bigger issue than the fact that the lighter blades will also be slower.

This is because the denser wood is more solid and gives the right kind of vibrations for feeling and the lighter ones give more of the kind of vibrations you don't want that make the blade feel sort of hollow or empty.

The fish scales thing, that is actually just a particular cut of wood. A regular cut of Koto will not have the 3 dimensional pattern that gets called "fish scales". That is a cut called quarter sawn. It costs more because you can only make so many cuts of that angle. And because it looks cool. But it doesn't actually change how the wood performs.

Another thing that does change the way a Viscaria would play is that the older ones from back when some Butterfly blades were made with black tags instead of silver, that was a different outsource company that made the black tag blades than the new outsource company that makes the new Viscarias. A black tag Viscaria may be a thing of the past. But, those are the ones that play best.

However, Baal says that the new ZJK ALC blades play more like the old Viscarias. So that might be something to think about.

But if you can get a Viscaria that is between 89-95 grams, that is going to be a good blade.

It is also okay to know that most top pros use blades that weigh between 90-95 grams. But, you have to be strong enough to still reset fast enough with that weight. So for players who train less than 3-4 days a week slightly lighter is better for most.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

What you wrote could be something that could be coming from my mouth

Baal · Jan 18, 2016

Fish scale Viscarias? The best one I have has that appearance (and a black tag), but one that I have nearly as good does not. I have had more Viscarias than most people, and I am not entirely sure it matters. Most important is weight. 88-93 grams is best. Some newer ones can be quite light. Avoid that, they feel a bit hollow compared to a good one.

A guy at the club a few days ago had one of the newest ones with the slightly different handle material and the newest Btfy logo. I thought it played very nicely, really surprised me how nice it was.

Even a "bad" Viscaria is a fantastic blade, I think the best one ever made.

say_lapata_plz · Jan 18, 2016

just try someones timo boll spirit, timo boll alc, if u like it, viscaria will be good choice for u, if not, try other blade type.
TBS,VISCARIA, TB ALC, zhang jike alc, even MAZE have only a little difference
if u have one of this blade - there 100% no reason to buy viscaria
if u like zhang jike, then 100% buy it.

Killerspintt · Jan 18, 2016

Every blade is unique. As long as you know that, it will be ok. Your viscaria will play like no other viscaria.

Baal · Jan 19, 2016

sebas-aguirre said:
remember that in order for players to notice differences in viscarias they need to have many viscarias.
players who have many viscarias are ejs.
ejs are known for their ability to take small differences and make them super big when it comes to blade comparison.

in the normal world people will just buy 1 viscaria and use it forever.
in that world you may get more "all viscarias are similar" style of comments.
or not even that, they would never even worry about comparing viscarias.
all they know is they have a viscaria, end of story.

As a person who owns quite a few of this blade, you may be surprised that I mostly agree with this.

UpSideDownCarl · Jan 19, 2016

sebas-aguirre said:
remember that in order for players to notice differences in viscarias they need to have many viscarias.
players who have many viscarias are ejs.
ejs are known for their ability to take small differences and make them super big when it comes to blade comparison.

in the normal world people will just buy 1 viscaria and use it forever.
in that world you may get more "all viscarias are similar" style of comments.
or not even that, they would never even worry about comparing viscarias.
all they know is they have a viscaria, end of story.

Baal said:
As a person who owns quite a few of this blade, you may be surprised that I mostly agree with this.

I've gotta say, I love these two quotes!

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The butterfly viscaria.

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