Choppers Perspective?

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Hello :)

I am looking for the opinion of someone who is either a good level chopper or is really good against choppers.

Myself, I have always struggled against the defensive player, perhaps because I am a player who prefers to play backhand where I can (I am working on balancing both my FH and BH strength). My forehand is still ata good level and is fairly consistent. My problem against chop is the game plan, as I often hear different strategies.

I have a few questions:-

Is it better to switch choppers each side of the table duringthe rally so they vary forehand/backhand, or is it better to take the time to figure out which side is their weaker side and pin them there?

Do most choppers favor FH chop or BH chop?

Are choppers really as patient as they seem? They seem to never get bored!

Any help on how to play against choppers would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
 
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First off, your text is hard to read as you can probably see. Go and change the color.

What I've heard from people who are good against choppers is that you don't want to pin them on one side necessarily: instead it's supposedly good to play shots right into their middle, and to their wide corners, over the sidelines as wide as you can.

You could try it out and see if it has some truth to it. I'm not qualified to say, but it does seem to be so.
 
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First off, your text is hard to read as you can probably see. Go and change the color.

What I've heard from people who are good against choppers is that you don't want to pin them on one side necessarily: instead it's supposedly good to play shots right into their middle, and to their wide corners, over the sidelines as wide as you can.

You could try it out and see if it has some truth to it. I'm not qualified to say, but it does seem to be so.

I have now sorted the formatting issues, thank you :)

Thank you for your advice also!
 
says what [IMG]
I have now sorted the formatting issues, thank you :)

Thank you for your advice also!
Don't take what I said as given, though. I don't have very much experience playing choppers, or in general.

There might be a scenario, especially in lower level play, where you might want to pin them to one side and feed them a certain kind of ball.

You might want to push more, and not risk it with very high level shots that you might not be able to pull off consistently. So insight from someone who is closer to your level and has extensive experience playing choppers is better.
 

NDH

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Hi Yecats,

Impossible to say if choppers favour one side over the other - It all depends on the player. I know a few of each - But ultimately, if they are good, they won't have a "much" weaker side.

Patience? Again, you are asking generic questions which are only applicable to individuals. If you are a chopper, chances are you are a patient person - It's not like you are going to be hitting winners left, right and centre! I'm sure there must be 1 or 2 impatient choppers.... But I would assume most will bide their time.

If you can't loop their chop on your backhand - That is the first place to start - Practice looping heavy backspin on your backhand. It doesn't have to be hard and fast, but if you can do it, it'll give you another dimension against a defensive player.

My strategy is to try and push them away from the table with a loop, and then you have all the time in the world to come around on your preferred wing to loop (most of the time it'll be forehand). If they absolutely rip one back at you, you can always do a short push, and start all over again.

It's important to have patience yourself - If they are good, you are unlikely to win in the first 2 or 3 shots.
 
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Playing choppers is really about patience and figuring out what the chopper struggles with in your arsenal. You also don't want to simply hit the ball at someone who is playing back far enough from the table to return it.

The main reason why you don't want to play choppers with your backhand is that the backhand has a limited power zone and adjustment range compared to the forehand. I have a decently large adjustment range with my backhand and I am one of the few players I know who will actually play a chopper in a rally sometimes with repeated backhands. But against a good chopper, it is hard to track the ball this way. The backhand is also harder to time when the ball travels over larger distances with varying spin, especially heavy spin or no spin, so you should develop a sufficiently good forehand to spin to choppers with. It is important to have a good backhand opener, but backhand rallying is not ideal unless you have a talent for it.

Step 1 is to play your usual serve and attack game. If you can go through the chopper, there is no need to discuss strategy.

Step 2 is to figure out what kinds of balls the chopper attacks and whether the attacks are things you struggle with. Some choppers have good loops vs backspin, some attack only high balls and some almost never attack or have bad attacks. Some only attack with their pips, some with inverted etc. Some play 3rd ball to keep you guessing or to force you to attack on their terms.

Step 3 is to find patterns that win points. Some common ones are playing down the middle of the table, flat hitting high balls, only attacking hard when the chopper is close to the table, using heavy topspin to loop the ball short when the chopper is far from the table, moving the chopper wide to his weaker side, serving to the chopper's short forehand and then attacking if the chopper doesn't return and reset quickly enough, pushing to bring the chopper in etc. One good reason to serve short vs choppers is that it makes it harder for them to chop heavily into the first serve or use variation.

Step 4 is to Be patient and consistent as the points will usually be longer. The most important thing is to execute your plays. Trying to shorten the points will often lead to unforced errors as the chopper is rarely going to give you a shot that isn't something he is ready for unless you set him up. If you can't set up the chopper, struggling is inevitable.

Good luck.
 
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TLDR; Mix up hard and soft attacks.

As a lefty penhold, I have a fairly easy time beating choppers. At least for players below 2200.

If you can't loop well, learn to loop first.

If a chopper has a weaker side, then go for it.

Also, keep a close eye on what kind of spin and how much spin is put on the ball. I know several long pips players who basically don't know how to chop with proper technique(lobbers with pips). Phillipe Dassonval is one frustrating example.

If you want to push, be careful. Look at how deep the ball is on the table and the spin on the ball. It is easy to push the ball out or into the net. If you give a bad push, the chopper might attack. If you know you can drop shot, it's alright for it to be high; just be careful.

Don't repetitively push and then loop and then push and the loop and then push and then loop and then push and the loop. Don't you think they practice this a lot? It's like a no-brainer for these defensive players. Don't push so much. Push sparingly.
What you can do is push and then loop softand then loop hard

Don't get too excited over chops that are high. Watch for its spin. By the way, you can drop shot those if you are good enough.

Don't stand too close to the table in case the chopper wants to lob back. If they do chop it back, you have time to get closer, loop/push, and step back again. This is especially important the chopper is good and chops deep on to the table.

What I feel is the easiest way to beat lower level choppers is mixing up strong and "weak" loops. There is no need to overpower choppers. I have seen played many points where a "weak" loop won the point. Just get them out of position first.

If you can't loop fast and your chopping opponent isn't over 2100, looping slow, low, and spinny to the forehand is an option. If the chopper is pretty good at forehand counterlooping, then force them away from the table first and then use this shot.

If you are able to forehand loop fast from both corners of the table to both corners of the table, you should have an easier time getting shots past the choppers. If you are able to attack third balls down the line with great speed, there might not even have to worry about rallies.
You should also be able to loop a fast, spinny one to the backhand and then a slow not very spinny one to the backhand.
Another combo you can do is a slow loop to the middle. If they backhand chop it, loop fast wide to their backhand..
Another combo is loop wide and slow to the backhand a couple of times and then a fast one to the forehand. Be ready for a counter though.

If your chopper can counter loop really well (for example, right off your opening attack), then again, don't be too close to the table. be too close to the table. Choppers easily can easily change the pace of the game and can just as easily push you away from the table and move you around. Don't get too confident just because you get to attack.

You can see Xu xin mix up hard and soft against Joo Sae Hyuk. I've tried out chopping myself (don't ask me why), and I have found variations like that really annoying.
 
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I will say this - I never loop to choppers consistently unless they have an attack that puts me under pressure or my loop is just eating their chop for breakfast. In fact, I think that unless you have a really good loop against backspin and are winning points, looping repeatedly to a chopper is a misguided strategy for most U1800 players especially those with advanced topspin games. Just push the chopper around until you find the right ball to open on. And if you don't know how to push, now you know why you need to work on it.
 
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I will say this - I never loop to choppers consistently unless they have an attack that puts me under pressure or my loop is just eating their chop for breakfast. In fact, I think that unless you have a really good loop against backspin and are winning points, looping repeatedly to a chopper is a misguided strategy for most U1800 players especially those with advanced topspin games. Just push the chopper around until you find the right ball to open on. And if you don't know how to push, now you know why you need to work on it.

Ah, I did mean to say that looping well is a necessity. I'm one of those guys who love looping against underspin(my specialty :D). I guess I forgot who my audience was(sorry).

Either way, variation is key, whether it be depth, angle, speed, or spin.
Just be careful not to make a bad push if you make two pushes in a row(read the spin).
 
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I generally spin first and ask questions later. Sometimes that doesn't work when they are far away from table. Why attack a low percentage chance when you can dunk it back and go strong on the next one? Sometimes taking away spin messes with them.

In most cases, I go for SHOCK and AWE tactics. Serve heavy underspin, to their inverted to show them you are heavy. Serve heavy underspin to their pips and get a net ball. make them understand you serve heavy. Then, pull the carpet out from under them with light underspin and dead serves low and short. They step in and bump it, it goes high and/or long, then you tee off on it for a crush kill. While player retrieves ball, turning to crowd, rolling up sleeve and flexing bicep with a thumbs up sign is optional. A LOT of defenders give it to you soft on BH first. That is a prime case for a BH smash hit or a very heavy topspin slow attack deep to their body or BH corner. This locks up a lot of defenders. They might get a bat on it, but you got time to step around and pulverize it.

All defenders play different, but they all gotta read spin and they hate getting caught at the table.

The standard advice to always serve long and fast dead spin is poor advice, many know how to handle it and if you keep giving it to them they adapt. Once you establish that short and heavy serve game, THEN doing those fast/deep serves is a good thing. Topspin very fast deep to body or BH corner often gets a light underspin ball coming long for you to pound away from them strong.

NL is spot on - IF you allow defender to cut the ball at you from distance to your BH and you have a good BH attack, use your judgment - it is likely a TRAP. It is much harder to accurately track and time the bounce of the ball when it travels double the distance of a long return from a short serve. You got TOO much time to get disrupted on BH wing. Don't go for all those chances - your percentages will work out much lower than you expect. I am not saying to never attack a ball with a BH drive or smash if it is there and the ball traveled a long way, but be aware not all these balls are as easy to finish as they look. This is exactly what a defender wants to get you into.

When a defender gives you semi-high balls and is parked well off the table, he is controlling the rally more than you think. When you attack strong, go for the body as hard as you can. Many defenders are great on either side, some might have a weaker side. Bump one back soft, make defender come in, if they give the ball to middle table or your FH, then try out a HOOKSHOT to his wide FH. You might get a winner or an error, or at least get back a lesser quality ball to put away... or at least the return from your hookshot will give you more options to finish strong.

Defenders who can pressure you with a strong punch on their pips side present an extra problem, you are under pressure and attacking right away is more riskier. A defender with a strong FH attack makes it NOT a good idea to play soft, but if you choose not to attack, he might step around the corner and punish you. Higher level defenders do this and it is one of the things that makes them that level.
 
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Thanks everyone for the great advice, it really is appreciated :)

I have to play two choppers this weekend and shall use the tactics you have given. I will let you know my results and what worked well.

Feel free to keep adding to this topic, any further advice is always useful, for lots of players not just me! :)
 
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Hello :)

I am looking for the opinion of someone who is either a good level chopper or is really good against choppers.

Myself, I have always struggled against the defensive player, perhaps because I am a player who prefers to play backhand where I can (I am working on balancing both my FH and BH strength). My forehand is still ata good level and is fairly consistent. My problem against chop is the game plan, as I often hear different strategies.

I have a few questions:-

Is it better to switch choppers each side of the table duringthe rally so they vary forehand/backhand, or is it better to take the time to figure out which side is their weaker side and pin them there?

Do most choppers favor FH chop or BH chop?

Are choppers really as patient as they seem? They seem to never get bored!

Any help on how to play against choppers would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

You’ve been given great advice here. Maybe I’ll just add a point of view from an amateur chopper. Of course, every chopper is different but here’s some things I personally hate!
- I hate players who push my chops and only powerloop my pushes. NextLevel mentioned this. They never powerloops chops. It forces me to move forward and back a lot – to the point where I’m exhausted at the end of the game. Also, it forces me to attack more to win points. Like most amateur choppers I’m far happier winning points because of my opponent’s mistakes and am not as confident when attacking.
- I hate powerloops to my forehand. This is different for every player of course. Like most choppers I have long pips on the backhand and inverted on the forehand. I experimented for maybe two years with forehand chopping – but gave up – and now do a kind of ‘guide’ shot (like a drive far from the table) from the forehand against a heavy powerloop. It’s similar to what other modern defenders who don’t chop on their forehands do like Filus, Gionis etc. It’s quite a passive shot – and if it’s not well placed lets the opponent attack easily. Personally, I’ve always found that choppers chop better with their long pips than their inverted. At an amateur level inverted chops tend to have more spin but are usually higher. Look out for this.
- I hate nospin serves to my long pips – which if not dealt with (by twiddling etc) – can be attacked easily (especially to the body) while I’m still too close to the table to chop effectively.
- I hate opponents who smash my chops that aren’t placed long enough on their side of the table. Take advantage of high chops placed close to the net. Change the angle of your bat for the backspin and smash ‘em!
- I hate my mother-in-law … I know it’s not table-tennis related but since I was on the topic …
 
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