Should serve safely or try to serve a surprise to win deuce game?

What would you have done?


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Should I serve safely or try to serve a surprise to win deuce game?

Story time:

Well, yesterday, I was playing against a 2389 guy named Ahmed Elmallah in under 2400 in the round robin. The game was 2-2 and I was winning 17-16 and it was my serve.

I'm left handed, and he's right handed.

Now, this player was having trouble with my short serves to his forehand (side spin, sometimes with a lot of backspin). He couldn't push it short well, so I easily got the third ball and attacked his corners. He also stopped trying to backhand flip my serves since I consistently punished his predictions by serving fast and long to his backhand. I did this about 5-6 times.

(I think his coach told him to stop trying to flip my serves after the game 2. He tried to flip twice and missed both anyways, so I think he got the message not to disrespect my serve.)

Now, the reason I was able to last so long was because of my serve. I was losing 2-2 8-10, and I served short twice and third ball attack twice and won both. So it was 10-10.
After it was deuce, I literally did the same serve 7 more times and continued to win most of those points.

I was having trouble when it was his serve. (He was mixing up serves with half long heavy underspin or no spin, a third with short sidespin topspin serve. I would try to flip his short serve that went to my forehand, but he just return fast to my backhand corner. I need to train my in and out of table movement :p ) He was also out rallying me most of the time. His forehand counter was pretty strong.
(In hindsight, I should have counter looped down the line to his backhand instead. I won the third game 2-1 that way.)

But I finally won one of the rallies when it was his serve.
So there I was, 2-2, 17-16. I knew this point was crucial.

Now, I was used the same serve about 9 times already and I was wondering whether he would play safe and push, or risk and flip. He was probably thinking the same thing: Is this kid going to serve short safely or take a risk and serve long? He was probably just waiting for me to serve long since he just chose to push 8 times in a row.

I served long topspin side spin to his backhand and surprised him, and his shot went high. I thought his shot would go out, but it instead hit the near edge of the table. Now, I was surprised. Being the 2000 me, I missed the following shot. Score was now 17-17.

I lost one more counterlooping rally. So it was 17-18, I'm down.

However, I was used to this situation, since this was the same scenario I faced about 8 times in this game already. I planned to serve short and third ball attack again. BUT I MISSED MY SERVE. I anti-climatically lose 17-19.

I was jokingly angry at myself afterward (I do miss my serves slightly more often than the average 2000 player. It was only a matter of time). A lot of players thought I was some underrated kid that nearly took down a 2400. He turned out to get into the finals, where he lost to Kokou Fanny(2398).

Story time is over.

Now for the actual question: Should I have stayed with a scenario that the opponent and I was familiar with, or should I surprise him and drive ourselves into more unfamiliar point?
 
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In my opinion there is no general rule, you need to figure out by yourself. It seems your serve was good, but he was just lucky hiting close to the edge. To tell you the truth I had similar situation many times after I figured out another solution. For instance I had the opponent with long pimples and he couldn't read my short topspin-sidespn serve and all the time he pushed it long so it was direct serve point, but in the end he answered it right in the edge - so there was nothing I could do.
My solution is: find some kinds of serves (tricky ones) which you will use very seldom. It is good to have choice of 3 and use them in the first game, the one which he had biggest problem never use until final crutial point.
 
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2400 player cant adjust to the same serve over and over?

Sorry, I meant type of serve. Short to the forehand-ish middle-ish.

Also, he did adjust to it. He was pushing heavy to my corners or trying to push it short. It's just that my serve is hard to push short. He did end up pushing it short once, but I just forehand flipped it hard and won the point anyways.

I vary my spins and placement(subtly), making it very awkward. also it is hard to read, or so I'm told. Also, he seemed to be weaker against lefties, because a 2100(Jeffrey Hsin) lefty also lost to him 3-2 right after I did.

I am also told that my serve is quite solid in high level play. I rely on my serve and attack game, so I practice my serve a lot because it is crucial. people who play with me know that I almost always get to attack first, simply because I'm familiar with my third ball attack routine and I attack serves.

EDIT: Also, some people play differently when they are under pressure. We had a lot of deuces.
 
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says I am just looking for someplace to play during a week...
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I agree with Shiro. Serve the same one you have given him 9 times. If he flips it he usually will miss it based on his previous attempts.If he pushes it you third ball attack it or at least after 9 times have a good idea of the returning spin and placement. When the end result is win/lose and you have limited tries left you go with the high percentage choice.
 
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In my opinion there is no general rule, you need to figure out by yourself....
...My solution is: find some kinds of serves (tricky ones) which you will use very seldom. It is good to have choice of 3 and use them in the first game, the one which he had biggest problem never use until final crutial point.

I actually have two of those serves. It's just that I was afraid I was miss them. Ironically, I missed my safe serve anyways :)
I'll be creative and braver next time, thanks!

IMHO, the serve to use at 17:16 should be such that it's return is not a surprise to you.

If you do go with a long top/side spin serve, then always be prepared to counter strongly the (hopefully weak) return.

I guess I should be more familiar with this choice of play. It's just that in this scenario, luck got in the way :p


Any other insights, words of wisdom?
 
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There is no rule about that, everyone has to decide for oneself. I figured out that it is best for me not to change too much in close situations but rely on the things that have worked so far. Of course a surprising serve could win you the game instantly but it can also go wrong. You only know afterwards :) No matter what you do, do it deliberately and don't regret it even if it went wrong.
 
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As I see it: the point when you are 17:16 up is as crucial as when you are 15:16. And as I understand - you've already played 7 times such points before this moment and took them using one certain tactics. So why change it? I don't see a reason. :)
 
says Spin and more spin.
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Yeah. It sounds to me like what you did was fine. What you didn't do was stay ready for the mistake off your long serve landing. And then you messed up two points later on your safe option serve. But you had to have done a lot right to take a player who is 2389 to 17-19 in the 5th.

Jeff Hsin is a good player. His fundamentals are very solid. He could be much higher level if he trained enough.

But if you are coming that close against someone who is that high a level, your level will likely keep going up as well.


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One should go with what one is confident about and ready to deal with the possible returns, thus giving you some advantage in the point. It helps to know an opponent has struggled vs something and be ready for how he would play safe.

I would say stick to what got you there and stay confident. However, it wasn't me who was there, it was you. it is difficult to stay simple and confident in that situation. It is real easy to overthink. That is a point where one is much less effective. Making the tough decisions without thinking too much about it is optimal and natural, but we all tend to get the way you did when we face extreme pressure or there is more on the line.

I still you did very very well.
 
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Its really call depending on the circumstances. How are confident are you feeling about your long serve , has he got it back ever in the past and if and when he did were you able to initiate the attack on the third ball and gain advantage. Normally, if I decide to serve long during the clutch, I try to think of what I am going to do on the third ball even when I am pretty sure that I might get a point off the serve.

But again its easier said than done and what if your opponent gets a lucky break . What if you had served short and he had pushed hitting the top of the net and then catching the edge ?

Essentially, you made a gut call and you got unlucky . Somedays we pick all the right numbers and on some others we don't.

Don't regret it , don't over analyze it because you would be overthinking it the next time you get to the point. What you should really be thinking is how could I have closed it out before it got that close ? Again it my opinion and if it does not make sense to you , it does not.

These kind of strategies at the death are also dependent on the personality of the player. While Djokovic will swing on a first serve, Federer will go for a conservative serve to make sure he gets the first serve in, so you have to know yourself and gauge the opponent and then make the call. From the detailed write up, you definitely did that , I don't see there is anything wrong in the thought process, and thats what really matters, the end result and the choice you made hardly matters ..
 
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Yeah. It sounds to me like what you did was fine. What you didn't do was stay ready for the mistake off your long serve landing. And then you messed up two points later on your safe option serve. But you had to have done a lot right to take a player who is 2389 to 17-19 in the 5th.

Jeff Hsin is a good player. His fundamentals are very solid. He could be much higher level if he trained enough.

But if you are coming that close against someone who is that high a level, your level will likely keep going up as well.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Jeffrey had taken Kai Zhang to 3-2 before and has been close to 2300. So while the guy may have been weaker vs lefties, David played at a high level.
 
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Normally I would go for the long serve, but in this situation (9 short serve - 9 point) I would serve short. In similar situations I usually do a fast, heavy sidespin (/backspin) serve. I often serve even a little bit high to tempt my opponent attack it. After won a point from deuce, you should serve nearly immediately so you don't give time our opponent to calm down or think. That's all what comes to my mind.
 
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I probably would have stuck with what was working but it doesn't matter because i seems to me that you got exactly what you wanted with your long serve when you opponent more or less popped it up. You executed it well and it took him by surprise. Don't second guess it now.

Stress-level was high and you misjudged the third ball, but probably not because of the serve choice. That happened your concentration lapsed with the victory so close at hand.

You are not alone! Entire books have been written about it.
 
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