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Table tennis epic
05-15-2016, 08:06 PM
It's tomahawk (both left and right) a good serve?
Like Kenta Matsudaira.

Shuki
05-15-2016, 08:50 PM
It's tomahawk (both left and right) a good serve?
Like Kenta Matsudaira.

If you are able to comfortably do it, it's a good serve. A good serve can be disguised (isn't the same spin all the time), kept low, varied placement. Most importantly, a good serve doesn't play against your game, but instead makes your game better.

Archosaurus
05-15-2016, 08:52 PM
Of course not. Kenta Matsudaira would have been soooooooooo much better off without his tomahawk serve. All that talk of top players having problems returning it is just lies.



:rolleyes:

thekleifheit13
05-15-2016, 09:00 PM
Just watch how far your racket travels during the motion, shorter motion means more opportunity for disguise and better control. It's a serve you should play hoping to win the point outright or to set up an easy kill. If someone does return it, the return will almost always have heavy spin, so you'll need to expect that. If you can control the serve and prepare for the returns it generates, the tomahawk serve is an awesome weapon. Just watch your blade, they tend not to fare well when you bang them on the edge ;)

Shiro
05-15-2016, 09:04 PM
It is a good serve as the the person you are playing against may not know the direction of the spin or what type of spin there is since you can make a last minute decision on your contact, fooling your opponent

Shuki
05-15-2016, 09:09 PM
Wish I could have met a few more players that actually use the serve. I've met a few and it's great but I haven't met anyone that could vary it much. Probably because it's not known to be an easy serve, and learning to vary a serve that already isn't easy feels like that time could be spent on another part of the game.

ttmonster
05-15-2016, 09:23 PM
Its a double edged sword. I don't mean to scare you but just stating the facts.
You need to practice it against somebody can give your spin back to you and you should be able to attack the third ball consistently . off both wings.

with any heavy spin serve, tomahawk or any other , its good and comfortable to win points outright when people cannot return it , but once they start reading the spin and returning it to awkward places even if it is long you should have a back up plan to attack it. Otherwise it can fire back at you.

So essentially you should have different serves in your arsenal and don't get strong headed and not change your serve if somebody returns it consistently.

Tony's Table Tennis
05-15-2016, 10:09 PM
Serves is to setup the 3rd ball, 5th ball etc.
Deceiving the opponent is the best serve

It can simple underspin vs no spin serve, or it can be heavy spin vs no spin serve - it is the same objective.
Some times more tricky serves leads to more difficult 3rd ball.
So just make sure what ever you do, you are on top of your game plan. Don't let your own serve surprise you

Boogar
05-15-2016, 10:28 PM
Also be aware that if you arent fast on your feet a tomahawk serve can put you at big disadvantage, because to get the ball low over the net you need to squat very deep.

If you look at matsudaira he can pull it off easy as he is very fast and relatively short.

So you may end up sitting on the ground while your opponent returns your serve fast off the bounce back.

Der_Echte
05-16-2016, 02:58 AM
I'm with Tony, have a PLAN... have SEVERAL plans and be ready to put them into play instinctively. Know your opponents' options and be ready for them. Play the percentages, but be ready to adapt.

UpSideDownCarl
05-16-2016, 04:31 AM
It's tomahawk (both left and right) a good serve?
Like Kenta Matsudaira.

I think you have already gotten some good advice. Der_Echte and Tony have given worthwhile advice to listen to.

One thing I would say is that, sometimes simple serves are very effective. At a certain level you realize that if you have a serve that allows you to make a powerful third ball and take control of the rally, then that is a good serve. Which is pretty much what Tony said:


Serves is to setup the 3rd ball, 5th ball etc.
Deceiving the opponent is the best serve

But, I am curious, what makes you ask us if a Tomahawk is a good serve?

Shuki
05-16-2016, 05:12 AM
There have been quite a few times, probably once or twice per match, that I give some nonsense serves. I'll initiate my nonsense by first walking toward my forehand side and puting as much sidespin as possible down the line. For some reason there's an aspect of this serve that makes people simply miss the serve. I then later walk over toward my forehand side for another serve, this one I just serve low with a bit of backspin to their forehand, waiting for the attack which if flat I'm most prepared, spun with topspin, I'm also prepared. and if chopped, well one of my best qualities is my shortgame so this is nice. I also have a serve where I walk all the way to the forehand side, and serve them a simple FH-FH warm up stroke, maybe a little lower, maybe a bit more pace. What I've noticed is often players are so excited to see a serve that they've practiced against countless times that they swing too hard and just miss.

Occasionaly I recognize a player who can't return highballs very well and I'll purposely smack a ball higher on my serve just to test them a bit more and see simply how bad their highballs to the backhand truly are.

Give a bit of nonsense and you'll gain more than you'd expect

CroneOne
05-16-2016, 06:06 AM
Check out how many times William Henzell messes up WLQ with the tomahawk. Most likely
because WLQ didn't train against this uncommon serve.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mP_NVK3Hx0

Tony's Table Tennis
05-16-2016, 07:56 AM
I think you have already gotten some good advice. Der_Echte and Tony have given worthwhile advice to listen to.

One thing I would say is that, sometimes simple serves are very effective. At a certain level you realize that if you have a serve that allows you to make a powerful third ball and take control of the rally, then that is a good serve. Which is pretty much what Tony said:



But, I am curious, what makes you ask us if a Tomahawk is a good serve?

Spot on
Good serve vs bad serve is irrelevant .
we should be talking useful serve

For some people, the tomahawk is a good serve, for some may not be as good.
If you can deceive people - you can only deceive people for a certain amount of times.
Maybe against weaker players, your serve is 80% of your direct point winning.
The higher level you go, the percentage comes down too.

over the past few years, I should say the biggest common problem I saw with players is that they do not know what they are serving and are not ahead of the game plan.

I would say - tomahawk is only a good serve if you can master it and deceive people - 4 kinds of spin with the same serve/action and only good serve if you have a game plane

Sali
05-16-2016, 08:51 AM
I think the best answer gave already Kenta. When you watch his matches you will see when and how often he uses tomahawk. Few years ago he used it more but later on when he found out that his opponents do not have much problems answering it fast he stopped it. Like it was said it depends on your opponent. I remember 3 years ago in Polish Open he was loosing with Liang Jingkun 3:0, then he started his tomahawk and won next 4 sets.
Also some time ago Ding Ning coppied Kenta serve and I found she took advantage of using it many times.
Important thing is to have variation and bring something new when your oponent knows you good.