Thoughts on Playstyle?

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That's kind of how I play... and I LOVE IT! I've been told that I'm a flashy player.

I play super aggressively. As of right now, I'd be a power looper.

I know firsthand the detriments of this kind of play style. I would look back on the games I've play and see a 2 giant themes.

1. The opponent didn't get to attack
2. I always "killed myself"

I started playing this way because I hated being attacked. I didn't how to block well, but seeing the Chinese just attack and counter attack made me want to do the same.

The first thing I learned how to loop underspin. (To this day, this is my best shot.) Why didn't I learn to loop topspin first? The players around me at the time were just older people who served underspin, pushed half long, and smashed, so the most common spin I'd see was underspin.
Then I learned how to loop kinds of serves. Here, I learned how to see the difference between half long and short balls.

After I started playing with loopers, I learned how to serve short underspin and push short. I realized when I started out that giving short balls gave you a much better chance attacking first. I practiced for hours, day after day, serving short underspin. I was still pretty bad at ping pong then. No one wanted to play with me, so I had a lot of time to familiarize myself with service. I pretty much got myself an "unattackable serve", at least for players at the level.

Against the loopers, I would lose the point almost every time my opponent attacked. Instead of learning how to deal with this situation, I sought to prevent it from happening all together.

I started learning how to third ball attack. I took every chance I got to attack. I would internally yell at myself for pushing a ball that I could have attacked.
I learned how to attack short balls in the process. I was getting better at drop shotting, since I stopped pushing long all together. I did everything I could to prevent my opponent's attack. I would try to shut down their game by giving everything short, and attacked whenever I could.

I got used to everything. Players varied service spin/placement, placing pushes to different angles, pushing hard and long, and everything in between. I never served topspin. Reading serves became a lot easier for me. I instinctively attack a push. I played my first tournament, the NJTTC 2013 November Open, and was rated 1862.

My play style worked. Players around 2000 weren't too confident with their short game and tried to get me to miss my attacks by varying everything pushes and serves. I was able to deal with most of the serves(loop or drop shot), and almost all of the pushes, so it was quite successful against those who couldn't serve short spinny or drop shot, those who couldn't block my opening loop (remember, looping underspin is my best shot, and I've been practicing my attack the whole time, so my opening loop was really above my level). As for topspin, I was getting there. But people don't like to serve topspin very much, since they want to attack first too.

I would lose to people who were as aggressive more aggressive than I (I'm starting to see more of these players the higher I go up the rating ladder), those who could block well(I beat Richard DeWitt though :) that was fun), and those who had great short game.

Back to the 2 themes, I would often "kill myself", meaning I would often lose the point by missing my attacks. I figured this is natural. After all, attacking is hard, and you have to play worse before you start improving.

People would tell me to chill out, and play smart. I still don't think too much of not attacking first. I figured that I would start playing smart when I can't overpower my opponent (I still played kind of well against defenders).
My thinking was that I should be able to win more than 1/2 the points by attacking. Also, I didn't think too much of missing anyways. Moreover, I told myself that this was for the sake of improvement.

As for the other theme, players told that I took their game from them. It sort of became not fun, because they ended up with no options. I had never thought about too much at the start. I don't want to turn people away from the sport.


I'm starting to change my playstyle now, since I think my playstyle is hindering my development. Now, I'm counter attacking, and I've gotten pretty good at it! REALLY FUN and EVEN MORE FLASHY.

But in all seriousness, I've got to start learning to block well in games.
I think it's hindering my development.

Should I start getting used to being attacked? Show I change how I play?


Also, feel free to post your own playstyle. I'm curious too see how other players came to play how they play.
 
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Read the Inner Game of Tennis by Timothy Gallwey. You may be thinking about this too much.
 
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But in all seriousness, I've got to start learning to block well in games.

Do you block well in practice?

I also like to attack first, but I enjoy blocking very much in the practice. I think that it is very useful to be a good blocker. If you know that you can block well, it gives you a massive confidence boost. Before I had anxiety once I saw my opponent launching an attack. Now I'm calm because I know that the point is not over yet.
 
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Do you ever help people practice? I would think learning to block (feeding) would come quite naturally when drilling with other players, especially as they practice their top spin. Tell them to loop as hard as they can, and you'll block it back!
 
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Do you block well in practice?

I also like to attack first, but I enjoy blocking very much in the practice. I think that it is very useful to be a good blocker. If you know that you can block well, it gives you a massive confidence boost. Before I had anxiety once I saw my opponent launching an attack. Now I'm calm because I know that the point is not over yet.

I second what Ilia said. Blocking has been an important element to my game. To be able to redirect your opponent's loops and make him run one side and block his continuation loop to the other side without a return is quite rewarding. Don't get me wrong, attacking definitely gets my adrenaline flowing and I want to get the first attack going if possible. But if my opponent launches an attack first and I know I can block well, I'm calm and cool as cucumber. Before, I also had this uneasy feeling once someone loops a ball at me and easily lose that point.

The reason I've become a good blocker is out of necessity. My hitting partner whom I've been playing for a year is an all out attacker. He loves to attack: long ball, half long, short, underspin, sidespin, no spin. He tries to flick all short serves and it drives me crazy when he is on a roll. So a year ago I was bombarded by his loops left and right and into my body over and over again. I was so frustrated that one practice session I decided I will just try pushing his short serves long into his body or wide to either side and let him rip at it. I learned that if I kept my racket up to chest/chin height and slightly closed I was able to block his loops over and over again. In the beginning I would still pop up many of his loops but as I continued over time I've become quite a decent blocker, passive as well as active blocking. It has opened up a whole different dimension to the game for me. I enjoy it that much more now that I can actually win points by not fearing an attack by my opponent.
 
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I second what Ilia said. Blocking has been an important element to my game. To be able to redirect your opponent's loops and make him run one side and block his continuation loop to the other side without a return is quite rewarding. Don't get me wrong, attacking definitely gets my adrenaline flowing and I want to get the first attack going if possible. But if my opponent launches an attack first and I know I can block well, I'm calm and cool as cucumber. Before, I also had this uneasy feeling once someone loops a ball at me and easily lose that point.

The reason I've become a good blocker is out of necessity. My hitting partner whom I've been playing for a year is an all out attacker. He loves to attack: long ball, half long, short, underspin, sidespin, no spin. He tries to flick all short serves and it drives me crazy when he is on a roll. So a year ago I was bombarded by his loops left and right and into my body over and over again. I was so frustrated that one practice session I decided I will just try pushing his short serves long into his body or wide to either side and let him rip at it. I learned that if I kept my racket up to chest/chin height and slightly closed I was able to block his loops over and over again. In the beginning I would still pop up many of his loops but as I continued over time I've become quite a decent blocker, passive as well as active blocking. It has opened up a whole different dimension to the game for me. I enjoy it that much more now that I can actually win points by not fearing an attack by my opponent.

Well, whether or not I'm good at blocking in practice depends on who I'm playing with. Against those my level, I don't think its good enough, even in practice.

I'm way better at punching though.

Also, they wouldn't really want to practice with someone who isn't good at blocking.

You do have a good point. Having the option to defend is important, and I realize that, which is why I was kind of concerned.
 
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Well, whether or not I'm good at blocking in practice depends on who I'm playing with. Against those my level, I don't think its good enough, even in practice.

I'm way better at punching though.

Also, they wouldn't really want to practice with someone who isn't good at blocking.


You do have a good point. Having the option to defend is important, and I realize that, which is why I was kind of concerned.


Stop acting like a snob. Start with someone whose loops you can block properly and earn your way to the top.
 
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I gotta say, blocking is one of the most fun parts of the game for me. It's allowed me to beat people I really have no business beating. If you have the athleticism and coordination, there's no reason you wouldn't be able to block nearly anyone's loop so long as you know where it's going. Once you can block a loop hit to the same place consistently, then you should be able to move to random practice just fine. Not many things are more rewarding than sending an opponent's attack right back down the line and outta their reach ;)
 
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I don't understand how you got to 1800's without a good block. My image of that level is that it's about where people start to be able to launch decent attacks, and you will get completely destroyed if you become useless as soon as an attack comes your way.

Go play with some people A LOT worse than you and let them attack. If you're not about to fall asleep while blocking their shots and instead struggle with catching up to them, you probably should indeed drop your pride and go drill/play practice games with people of that level.

My reasoning comes from my observation that at the lower levels, people can't really attack. If they do, it's non-threatening and you can easily attack it back. Once you start putting the big boy pants on, nearly everyone can attack well. What do you think is going to happen to you if you can't even block a recreational player's kills for a point of your own? :p
 
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...What do you think is going to happen to you if you can't even block a recreational player's kills for a point of your own? :p

Nothing major will happen - these 'kills' will be missed 80% of the time. I suspect your knowledge of tournament play is purely theoretical, no?
 
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Nothing major will happen - these 'kills' will be missed 80% of the time. I suspect your knowledge of tournament play is purely theoretical, no?
Ah, yes, I forgot that you don't exactly need a block at that level because they'll just give the points for you.

What about "If you can't return a faster shot under pressure", then? Assuming OP's block is as bad as he says.

Yes, sadly, it is. You'd be hard pressed to find low level tournaments around here.

How important exactly is a good block at 1800's tournament level, then?
 
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It is kind of entertaining hearing guys who are 1200-1400 giving advice and opinions to someone 2000-2100.

You guys should go watch the videos of David play.

That being said, NextLevel's advice, find someone whose loop you can block and work from there: that is good advice and it would work. But so would finding someone 2500, like a coach and have them loop so David can block and slowly increase the power of the loop as the practice progresses. I know that Paul David, Michael Landers, Matthew Kahn, Alex Pérez and Atanda Musa can all loop to me in a way where I can block. Getting your coach to do that so you get used to the touch of blocking would probably be really useful.

But, based on the videos, I am confident you can counterloop a 2100 level players loop. So, if you can do that, you already have the touch to block that same loop. It would just be the practice and the confidence because, really, you already have the touch for it or you wouldn't be able to counterloop as well.

Worth working on. Not the end of the world if you don't work on it. Or you would not be the level you are. You could think of a block as just a tiny swing on a counterloop instead of a bigger swing.


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Ah, yes, I forgot that you don't exactly need a block at that level because they'll just give the points for you.

What about "If you can't return a faster shot under pressure", then? Assuming OP's block is as bad as he says.

Yes, sadly, it is. You'd be hard pressed to find low level tournaments around here.

How important exactly is a good block at 1800's tournament level, then?


OP is ~2100, so a lot of your assumptions about quality of his shots and subsequent advice are quite a bit off. He is not playing recreational players (~1000 level), at least in US-centric sense.

I'm a little bit under 1800, and at this level you can still be quite un-orthodox and maintain this level without a high quality loop/block/push or serve. You just have to be good at something and beat others around that level.
 
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Ah, yes, I forgot that you don't exactly need a block at that level because they'll just give the points for you.

What about "If you can't return a faster shot under pressure", then? Assuming OP's block is as bad as he says.

Yes, sadly, it is. You'd be hard pressed to find low level tournaments around here.

How important exactly is a good block at 1800's tournament level, then?

Actually, at 1800 it isn't critical unless your play style relies on it (pushblocker, etc.). Most rallies at that level are won by the first successful attack; however, you need to be able to block or counter to go much beyond that. I beat a guy that's 1800 in straight sets this past Tuesday because I initiated attack and he couldn't block me down. I'm not a fantastic attacker, but it was still enough to get him. In general, more well-rounded players will do better in the amateur game.
 
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I completely forgot that David has obviously been able to progress past the level he quoted in the post. Getting to 2100's is quite impressive in itself, but with no block... ;)

@pgpg

Interesting that you can have pretty big "flaws" in your game, and just crush the opponent with brute force, basically. Would a better rounded player be more successful overall?
 
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@pgpg

Interesting that you can have pretty big "flaws" in your game, and just crush the opponent with brute force, basically. Would a better rounded player be more successful overall?

Yes, better player will be more successful...

I think you slightly misunderstand what I said: you don't necessarily 'crush' your opponent with brute force (I know I'm not). It's just at this level you have to do at least something pretty well to stay there: great serve, very high consistency, good use of LP/anti, unusually spinny loop, great blocking. Other areas of your game can be lacking, but your opposition is still not good enough to identify and exploit your weakness, so you beat some of them, but consistently lose to much better players. You are, however, impeded in your progress by weak areas - every time you run into unfavorable style matchup in the tournament, you are likely to incur a bad loss.

As an example: I have lots of trouble against close to the table blockers who move you around and are very consistent. In reverse, I give fits to loopers at my level (and slightly above) who are troubled by LP balls. When I (and said loopers) overcome this, we no longer will be 1700 players.
 
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I completely forgot that David has obviously been able to progress past the level he quoted in the post. Getting to 2100's is quite impressive in itself, but with no block... ;)

@pgpg

Interesting that you can have pretty big "flaws" in your game, and just crush the opponent with brute force, basically. Would a better rounded player be more successful overall?

I lose to people who can:
1. Handle my loops
2. Attack (with a lot power) before I do consistently

A player who can do either of these would probably be much more than a well rounded player.

I work around my "flaws". Against slower loops, I would either forehand counter or backhand punch. Otherwise, I try to prevent it from happening from the first place.

I do practice my blocks, but it doesn't seem to be helping.

The blocks that I'm bad at come from powerful third ball attacks that I don't expect, the opener, the shot where I have to switch from "attack mode" to "defense mode."
Let me explain.

When I practice blocking, I'm in some sort of "defense mode." When I'm in this mode, blocking isn't very hard. I can handle openers and other attacks decently.

However, in a match, I always start out in "attack mode." Because of the way I play, I'm perpetually in "attack mode." When I make a bad short push, the opponent would attack me and I would be forced into "defense mode." However, I'm terrible at this transition in mindset.

If I start out the point expecting to be attacked, I'm fine. In fact, it's becoming part of my game. (serve long to forehand, opponent loops, I counter down the line.)

Back to the mindset transition idea. When someone loops (without blazing speed) to me, I'll try to attack it: it's become second nature. I see these slower loops as opportunities to attack. I don't have to change my mindset.

This is what I meant by, "Against those my level, I don't think [my blocking] is good enough." If the attack comes at me fast enough to force me into "defense mode", my block in reaction to that shot isn't too consistent. I get that block in about 1/3 of the time, which I'm not proud of.
Expecting the attack is a huge factor, at least that's what I think.

It's not I'm missing every blocking attempt; I think that's what a majority was being mislead into thinking.
I'm simply aware (and jealous) of the fact that my opponents seem to react to this shot much better than I do. (now that I think about it, it's probably because I'm attack them all the time)

Meanwhile, I'll be working on my backhand today!
 
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You have identified something quite specific which is a good thing.

There are tons of multiball drills you can do to practice the transition from attack mode to a more defensive mode. It's pretty important to be able to do that. A lot of the time the problem comes when people get a little off balance from their attack. Sometimes the way to deal with that is to take just a little pace off the attack and to spend some time really concentrating on getting back into a balanced ready position after an attack.

I actually see some pretty high level players here (2500) training that a lot.
 
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Look, ArcMan, just think about it and realize, if David Song asked, in a different thread, about serving at 16-15 in the fifth against a guy who was just short of 2500, that you may be putting your foot in your mouth and you just may not get what he means by not being able to block.

And blocking a flat hit ball from a 1200 doesn't show anything. There is no point to block a dead ball from a recreational player. You spin those. Whereas a heavy loop from a 2500 player, you need to have pretty good touch to block or counterloop those. It is something hard to understand or imagine if you have never done it.

So it is worth understanding, David can probably do what you think he said he can't do way better than you realize. And he is probably just talking about something else.


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I lose to people who can:
1. Handle my loops
2. Attack (with a lot power) before I do consistently

A player who can do either of these would probably be much more than a well rounded player.

I work around my "flaws". Against slower loops, I would either forehand counter or backhand punch. Otherwise, I try to prevent it from happening from the first place.

I do practice my blocks, but it doesn't seem to be helping.

The blocks that I'm bad at come from powerful third ball attacks that I don't expect, the opener, the shot where I have to switch from "attack mode" to "defense mode."
Let me explain.

When I practice blocking, I'm in some sort of "defense mode." When I'm in this mode, blocking isn't very hard. I can handle openers and other attacks decently.

However, in a match, I always start out in "attack mode." Because of the way I play, I'm perpetually in "attack mode." When I make a bad short push, the opponent would attack me and I would be forced into "defense mode." However, I'm terrible at this transition in mindset.

If I start out the point expecting to be attacked, I'm fine. In fact, it's becoming part of my game. (serve long to forehand, opponent loops, I counter down the line.)

Back to the mindset transition idea. When someone loops (without blazing speed) to me, I'll try to attack it: it's become second nature. I see these slower loops as opportunities to attack. I don't have to change my mindset.

This is what I meant by, "Against those my level, I don't think [my blocking] is good enough." If the attack comes at me fast enough to force me into "defense mode", my block in reaction to that shot isn't too consistent. I get that block in about 1/3 of the time, which I'm not proud of.
Expecting the attack is a huge factor, at least that's what I think.

It's not I'm missing every blocking attempt; I think that's what a majority was being mislead into thinking.
I'm simply aware (and jealous) of the fact that my opponents seem to react to this shot much better than I do. (now that I think about it, it's probably because I'm attack them all the time)

Meanwhile, I'll be working on my backhand today!

A good player i know, who also happens to be a penholder, also told me about that defensive stance and offensive stance in the pnehold game. Sometimes he would just stand there and block all over the place and other times he would loop like crazy. However he hardly does both unless he has alot of time to change stance.

What migth help you are rpb blocks instead of the classic penhold blocks as the rpb has different angels.

What do you think?
 
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