PDA

View Full Version : The Jab Serve



Eli Baraty
05-21-2016, 11:31 AM
Hi Everyone,

I developed a coaching video which shows the basic principals of the Jab serve. I don't think anyone has produced a tutorial about this particular serve so I hope those who watch will learn and enjoy the video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0AQsicGnPE

If you have any questions feel free to contact me and more more detail about me here's my website www.elibaraty@hotmail.com

thank you

darnner123
05-21-2016, 12:06 PM
This is a very good video explain it but i have no idea how are you supposed to generate a lot of spin with this.
It doesn't look like you can generate as much spin as the pendulum serves.

UpSideDownCarl
05-21-2016, 12:21 PM
@darnner, you can generate a lot of spin with that serve. Very useful and deceptive serve.

@magictouch, it looks a lot like Brett Clarke's punch serve. He has a few videos on it. Some are public. Some you need to be a TTEdge member to see.

Here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1YO8jYGEc0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX8blHF-YZA

BTW: if you didn't know, Brett is lefty. So when he shows the serve righty, he is doing it with his off hand. But, the footage shows he can do it pretty well with either hand.

And either way, magictouch, good video and easy to see the mechanics of the serve. It doesn't have to be the first to be a good aid in learning a new and good serve.

UpSideDownCarl
05-21-2016, 12:24 PM
By the way, what is the poll about. It looks like my answer could be at least 3 of the 4 questions in the poll. Yes, it is table tennis; yes, you called it the jab serve even if there are other names like punch serve; yes, it is a serving tip. It might even be a coaching video. :)

NextLevel
05-21-2016, 01:05 PM
BTW: if you didn't know, Brett is lefty. So when he shows the serve righty, he is doing it with his off hand. But, the footage shows he can do it pretty well with either hand.


Nah, he flips the video recording to reverse the images.

Eli Baraty
05-21-2016, 01:29 PM
hi,
sorry i didn't know Brett has this video and we seem to call it a different name :-)

i did the poll by mistake also :-( forgive my ignorance :-)

vvk1
05-21-2016, 03:21 PM
@magictouch - thanks for the great video.

@Dan - Perhaps you should add Eli to the list of verified pro's (or verified coaches)?

For those who don't know, Eli is a highly respected and well known coach here in London. If you play in a tt league here, there is a good chance you'd play against one of his former/current students.

As to the amount of spin that these serves could generate, earlier this season I had a chance to play against a team of Eli's students in the Barnet league, and they used jab/punch serves very effectively, with plenty of spin and variation. I got owned more than once :-)

Baal
05-21-2016, 03:51 PM
This is a very good video explain it but i have no idea how are you supposed to generate a lot of spin with this.
It doesn't look like you can generate as much spin as the pendulum serves.

You can generate a great deal of deceptiveness in spin, trajectory and placement. That is more important than absolute amount of spin, but also you might be surprised how much spin you can get. These days I use variations of this on about 2/3 of my serves.

Top Chinese women have been using this for longer than elite men, but Fegerl and Garell use it a lot. I started working on it a few years ago after wondering why Liu Shiwen almost never uses a pendulum serve, and after I faced the reality that no matter how many buckets of balls I practiced, my reverse pendulum was always going to be horrible. Jim Butler showed me strategic tips on how to used the jab serve more effectively.

I have been calling it a hook serve but jab serve is a better name.

I think this is an excellent video. Brett has one too, but we can never have too many coaching resources on the web.

fais
05-21-2016, 04:39 PM
This is a very good video explain it but i have no idea how are you supposed to generate a lot of spin with this.
It doesn't look like you can generate as much spin as the pendulum serves.

Think about Bruce Lee's one inch punch and he managed to generate so much power with such little motion. I agree with you that it is harder, but I've been surprised before with what can be done with proper timing, weight transfer and contact position/type.

UpSideDownCarl
05-21-2016, 07:20 PM
Yep, jab, punch, hook. And the more good videos on serving the better.

I do a similar but different serve that I call a hook serve that is a little similar and a little different where the motion is very small and the tip of the blade is pointing up. I know with that serve I can get a ton of spin with a tiny motion. But anyone on the receiving end of this serve well executed will know you can get a really good amount of spin.

And anyone watching magictouch's video can tell he is a pretty high level player.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

UpSideDownCarl
05-21-2016, 07:23 PM
Nah, he flips the video recording to reverse the images.

That is funny. I always thought he just could do it from either side.

I tried to read the writing in the background before I posted that but it was hard while walking. Now I know at least part of why I had trouble reading it on my phone. Lol.

Tony's Table Tennis
05-21-2016, 07:59 PM
You can generate a great deal of deceptiveness in spin, trajectory and placement. That is more important than absolute amount of spin, but also you might be surprised how much spin you can get. These days I use variations of this on about 2/3 of my serves.

Top Chinese women have been using this for longer than elite men, but Fegerl and Garell use it a lot. I started working on it a few years ago after wondering why Liu Shiwen almost never uses a pendulum serve, and after I faced the reality that no matter how many buckets of balls I practiced, my reverse pendulum was always going to be horrible. Jim Butler showed me strategic tips on how to used the jab serve more effectively.

I have been calling it a hook serve but jab serve is a better name.

I think this is an excellent video. Brett has one too, but we can never have too many coaching resources on the web.

Baal beat me to it "You can generate a great deal of deceptiveness in spin, trajectory and placement"
To me, the main goal of a serve is not to out spin your opponent, but to focus on deceptiveness.
Of course, garage players, I would just out spin them :)

Great video Eli!!

yuri.saldon
05-21-2016, 11:18 PM
That's funny, today I was practicing exactly this server! I found easier to perform, and give me some points

Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

BeGo
05-22-2016, 12:06 AM
too many serve name, so difficult to tell apart. :(

Till now, I have yet to fully comprehend the difference between pendulum, tomahawk float, reverse pendulum, backspin, jab, etc.

They all look the same to me. :)

fascinating indeed. :)

Sent from my T1X Plus using Tapatalk

ttmonster
05-22-2016, 05:17 AM
I think its important we call out the spin as reverse corkscrew .

The reason being most of the spin generated using this serve is not top or under rather corkscrew on different axes. The side spin is pure spin but that is where it stops.
Most people struggle returning the serve and even servers struggle understanding what they are doing even though they keep getting free points from it.

Why I suggest we call it out clearly is because the ball behaves differently depending on where you touch the ball while returning and is quite different when compared to regular pendulum serve where the spin axis on a perpendicular to the direction of motion . Here where the spin axes is on a plane almost or just slightly at an angle to the direction of motion.

I wish somebody makes a video on how to return this particular serve along different placements on the table :) , it might help a lot of people understand the effect of spin.

Henning Ottosen
05-22-2016, 08:31 AM
Thank you for sharing guys.

gmiller2233
06-06-2016, 10:30 PM
[QUOTE=ttmonster;147580]I think its important we call out the spin as reverse corkscrew .

The reason being most of the spin generated using this serve is not top or under rather corkscrew on different axes. The side spin is pure spin but that is where it stops.
Most people struggle returning the serve and even servers struggle understanding what they are doing even though they keep getting free points from it.



I think this statement is exactly correct. I've been working on it quite a bit and at first To be honest wasn't sure exactly what was going on. It wasn't until I really started horsing around with all variations of side,top, under and then trying a ghost serve hitting from under with side trying to get to to come back to the net that I could really see strange corkscrew thing more clearly. I was kind of expecting it to behave more like the pendulum serve just in reverse at first but it's not really the case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ardenhouse165
06-07-2016, 11:55 AM
http://tabletennisengland.co.uk/news/archived/zak-abel-from-table-tennis-star-to-music-sensation/

More of Eli's talents!!!

Luis Nasche
06-12-2016, 05:58 PM
This thread gave me a really good new weapon.

I can serve from my backhand pretty well, but I never found it disruptive and I don't like the positioning.

I've tried to master the reverse pendulum serve, but it always felt unnatural for me.

After studying the videos on this thread and dedicating time practicing it just became a very good new weapon. After adapting the motion to mimic my normal pendulum serve I may loose some spin, but I'm a firm believer that serves are not about heavy spin, but about being deceptive and now starting from the same base with almost the same movement I can sidespin left or right with topspin or underspin and I don't feel this serve unnatural like the reverse pendulum neither out of position like I feel backhanding or tomahawking a serve.

Placement is also easier with this serve than with reverse pendulum, at least for me.

Eli Baraty
10-08-2016, 08:13 PM
Thank you but the real talent is Zak in the video, a former student of mine that was no.1 in England for his age and the year above. He hadn't played for 6 years prior to this video. Sang danced played TT, multi ball all in very tough condition and all in one take. He was sensational in this video.

Eli Baraty
10-08-2016, 08:14 PM
Sorry I did the poll by mistake (new to the site, all this tech is rocket science to me ????)

Archosaurus
10-08-2016, 08:36 PM
I'm not very good at this serve, but it's still a great source of free points and pop ups.

Maybe now's the time to get a bit better at it!

P1ngP0ng3r
10-09-2016, 09:55 AM
Thanks for this video. If you are planning to make more tutorial video's, perhaps you can create some parts in slowmotion. That way the swing of your arm and the position of the blade is more clear.

I'm playing for almost 30 years (at a decent regional level), but you're never too old (or too experienced) to learn. I really appreciate the people putting time in such tutorials and I love to watch them. So thanks!

gmiller2233
05-10-2017, 04:12 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

suds79
05-10-2017, 05:42 PM
I know wang hao somewhat used this serve as his main for several years but as far as I can tell, this serve is SO much easier to execute with shakehand rather than penhold.

with shakehand, i always felt like it was a tomahawk motion like serve just done almost behind your body and by your waste.

Flick straight to the side for a lot of side/top.
Flick down & side for side/back. Quick wrist flick here helps.

But with penhold? :( it's a different story. The way the blade is facing, the head is already down and the wrist flick motion is just different. IDK. Maybe it's just me. But for all the advantages one is suppose to get in serving with penhold, I don't feel this particular serve is one of them.

ttmonster
05-10-2017, 06:12 PM
You have to consider Wang Hao had a different grip compared to traditional penholders ... I used to play a guy in my old club who was a big wang hao fan and used to copy wang hao's technique , he also had a custom made blade to execute wang hao's grip , he used to do this serve , but most of the times it was topspin ... the key to serving down spin would be to change the impact point ... check the video around 13:44 for spefics on the hook serve... hope it helps


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrrIDgT6TnY




I know wang hao somewhat used this serve as his main for several years but as far as I can tell, this serve is SO much easier to execute with shakehand rather than penhold.

with shakehand, i always felt like it was a tomahawk motion like serve just done almost behind your body and by your waste.

Flick straight to the side for a lot of side/top.
Flick down & side for side/back. Quick wrist flick here helps.

But with penhold? :( it's a different story. The way the blade is facing, the head is already down and the wrist flick motion is just different. IDK. Maybe it's just me. But for all the advantages one is suppose to get in serving with penhold, I don't feel this particular serve is one of them.