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Penhold
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The best ones are pretty good
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Xu Xin, Wong Chun Ting (<- current two best penholders), He Zhi Wen, Kai Yoshida (best japanese penholder atm), Wang Zeng Yi. Younger; Xue Fei (->closest to being a Xu Xin/Wang Hao followup)
Retired worth watching: Wang Hao, Ma lin, Ruy Seung Ming, and many others.
YouTube them and see for yourself :L
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Retired worth watching: Wang Hao, Ma lin, Ruy Seung Ming, and many others.
YouTube them and see for yourself :L
Sent fra min SM-G901F via Tapatalk
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Most of the top penhold players are past their prime. If you're talking about carrying the mantle there's Xu Xin and Wong Chun Ting. That's it. For women its even more bleak. Li Jiao is awesome but she's no spring chicken. And she's arguably the best female penholder still competing in international tournaments. After a few more years, I predict penhold will have no player in the top 100, on the women's side.
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To better not sarcastically answer your question (compared to my first answer). Penhold is really dying off. My coach, who was a professional female penhold player in her prime, recommends to upcoming children students to play shakehand instead.(recommends to the parents not the child).
She'll teach either way regardless but with the modern game you really need both sides and the RPB is very difficult to learn and execute well so she says it's harder to learn than shakehand.
She'll teach either way regardless but with the modern game you really need both sides and the RPB is very difficult to learn and execute well so she says it's harder to learn than shakehand.
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That's not because it's a worse style, it's because it requires some talent + more training to achieve greater heights than shakehand. In China that's possible, meanwhile in other countries that might not be wise if you want to reach the top.
If you'd make a graph on it (the skill increase over time) penholders (inverted that is) would have a slow advance in skills while after a while it would start to climb faster, meanwhile shakehand would start more rapidly and then slowly slow down at some point in increase until they evenetually meet each other at some point (though shake hand might have 1-3 years where it's steadily and penhold still increasing to reach it). The last part upon reaching higher skills than the other after being even, is just individual skills and effort. But you could say, shake hand is most likely more compatible with most people. That's the reason it's decreasing.
(Didn't opose what you said, just making some extra points).
I too recommend using shakehand to the beginners I play with. Because I know they will become better faster. But I really enjoy the feel and the sidespin and the fh I get with penhold (+footwork), as well as the serves ofc. (Though pendulum is pretty close to as good tbh) that's the reason I choose it. However I would admit that, if I'd swapp to shake hand now, I could possibly become better than I am now in maybe just a couple months. (When I swap to shake hand now I play much more decent than I did before btw, despite playing only penhold). But I wouldn't do that unless I for some reason injured my leg/knee. As footwork is an important factor to penhold, even if you have a good RPB (unless you play SP obv; He Zhi Wen).
Shakehand would to me, take away some of the joy in my game.
Which is the reason I stick with it.
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Penhold is not dead. 2004, 2008 and 2012 Olympic Finals saw 5 penholders against only 1 shake-hand player.
2004 final saw Wang Hao vs Ryu Seung Min:
(both penholders)
2008 final saw Wang Hao vs Ma Lin:
(again both penholders)
2012 final saw Wang Hao vs Zhang Jike:
(Zhang Jike being the only shake hand player)
2004 final saw Wang Hao vs Ryu Seung Min:
2008 final saw Wang Hao vs Ma Lin:
2012 final saw Wang Hao vs Zhang Jike:
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AT THE AMATEUR LEVEL:
Shakehand is a more natural, and a more stable grip than penhold. Also, it's easier to "figure out" when starting out, since some people can relate it to other racket sports.
The wrist has a lot of freedom for penhold. In fact, this freedom might give penholders an advantage over shakehand players.
However, there is too much freedom, so much that most players don't know what to do with it, and they end up not using it properly. This allows for a lot of improper variations that could screw up your game later on.
Most people don't even know how to hold the paddle correctly for penhold; they just kind of wing it and roll with it without thinking too much about it, especially when first starting out, and especially if they start out 'playing for fun'.
Also, less is generally known about penhold outside of China. There is a severe lack of information about proper penhold technique compared to that of shakehand technique.
Even I wouldn't be too sure about explaining RPB to another player, because I sort of just went with whatever felt optimal.
A lot of penholders have suboptimal backhands because they didn't learn it properly. I would imagine they sort of went whatever they found acceptable.
I remember there was a time I was trying to find a proper video on how to do a proper penhold forehand flick. I couldn't find much. (There was that one video of Xu Xin doing it multiple times, but I can't find it anymore. Can someone link it?)
There is a lack of videos on the penhold, and for a sensible reason: there aren't many penhold players.
All of this sums up to making penhold VERY DIFFICULT TO LEARN PROPERLY.
************************
MY THEORY(might be wrong, as usual):
If China produced players like a factory, I would imagine that they would probably not use the process that produced more defects. That would be penhold. I would imagine that it would be very easy for a penhold player to get something screwed up along the way, because I definitely know that I have. I use my wrist freedom to experiment with all sorts of strokes in order to find what I think is optimal. I still do this.
Mass producing pro players would be easier if they were all taught shakehand.
I don't think penhold is much weaker than shakehand, especially with the RPB, but I think it is much harder to produce a top player, given the odds.
I see penhold as shakehand tilted 90 degrees towards the ground.
Shakehand is a more natural, and a more stable grip than penhold. Also, it's easier to "figure out" when starting out, since some people can relate it to other racket sports.
The wrist has a lot of freedom for penhold. In fact, this freedom might give penholders an advantage over shakehand players.
However, there is too much freedom, so much that most players don't know what to do with it, and they end up not using it properly. This allows for a lot of improper variations that could screw up your game later on.
Most people don't even know how to hold the paddle correctly for penhold; they just kind of wing it and roll with it without thinking too much about it, especially when first starting out, and especially if they start out 'playing for fun'.
Also, less is generally known about penhold outside of China. There is a severe lack of information about proper penhold technique compared to that of shakehand technique.
Even I wouldn't be too sure about explaining RPB to another player, because I sort of just went with whatever felt optimal.
A lot of penholders have suboptimal backhands because they didn't learn it properly. I would imagine they sort of went whatever they found acceptable.
I remember there was a time I was trying to find a proper video on how to do a proper penhold forehand flick. I couldn't find much. (There was that one video of Xu Xin doing it multiple times, but I can't find it anymore. Can someone link it?)
There is a lack of videos on the penhold, and for a sensible reason: there aren't many penhold players.
All of this sums up to making penhold VERY DIFFICULT TO LEARN PROPERLY.
************************
MY THEORY(might be wrong, as usual):
If China produced players like a factory, I would imagine that they would probably not use the process that produced more defects. That would be penhold. I would imagine that it would be very easy for a penhold player to get something screwed up along the way, because I definitely know that I have. I use my wrist freedom to experiment with all sorts of strokes in order to find what I think is optimal. I still do this.
Mass producing pro players would be easier if they were all taught shakehand.
I don't think penhold is much weaker than shakehand, especially with the RPB, but I think it is much harder to produce a top player, given the odds.
I see penhold as shakehand tilted 90 degrees towards the ground.
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I have a few videos I enjoy watching technique wise
(other than regular match play of course). I'll link them here: NB: In terms of RPB, I would rather learn from Wang Hao... Mainly because I think this first video is a master piece to penholders. (you might have seen it before..)
I also think this one is usefull, should be more similar once.
Could video nr. 3 be the one you were referring to?
EDIT:
For regular Penhold this one is also pretty good despite quality and language. Observation get's for the most part the essential.
Half of the above with decent subtitles (Japanese originally) ->
newer? ->
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I've seen most of these videos. since those are the few penhold videos that are out there, we've probably seen the same ones.
I think the forehand flick video got taken off youtube. It was of Xu Xin practicing flicking somebody's serve, over and over again.
I think the forehand flick video got taken off youtube. It was of Xu Xin practicing flicking somebody's serve, over and over again.
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