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Matthew
06-03-2016, 09:39 AM
Does the type of blade affects the spin during performing a service? I know the key to service is using your wrist but does the type of blade (all wood & composite blade) affects the spin or the service depends more on the type of rubbers used?

songdavid98
06-03-2016, 09:54 AM
It depends mostly on skill and rubbers, not the blade.

Learn to work the wrist before you buy more equipment.

PierreAd
06-03-2016, 12:29 PM
It depends mostly on skill and rubbers, not the blade.
Learn to work the wrist before you buy more equipment.
I do not agree, blade does impact the spin you impart to the ball, both in game and during the serve. For instance, I remember perfectly when I tried the Xiom Vega Pro blade. It was the first time I did impart so much spin in my serve, it was really easy to make my backspin serve quickly return into the net... much more easily than what I can do with the other blades I've played with. It's a shame I didn't manage to handle it's head-heaviness because it's a sweet blade.

However I agree that the most important is the wrist action and the technique first ;)

Luis Nasche
06-03-2016, 12:46 PM
1st point of the blade you make contact (technique)
2nd wrist action (technique)
3rd rubber (equipment)
4rd blade composition and size (equipment)

pgpg
06-03-2016, 12:46 PM
I do not agree, blade does impact the spin you impart to the ball, both in game and during the serve. For instance, I remember perfectly when I tried the Xiom Vega Pro blade. It was the first time I did impart so much spin in my serve, it was really easy to make my backspin serve quickly return into the net... much more easily than what I can do with the other blades I've played with. It's a shame I didn't manage to handle it's head-heaviness because it's a sweet blade.

However I agree that the most important is the wrist action and the technique first ;)

Given the thin brushing contact on the serve required for heavy backspin, I'd be surprised that blade would matter that much, unless we are talking about comfort of the handle and overall balance of the paddle making your wrist move more efficiently.

You did use the same rubbers on your XVP and whatever you compared it to, right?

UpSideDownCarl
06-03-2016, 12:52 PM
The dwell time and feeling could effect things a little. The higher the toss the more the blade would have some impact on spin. But it still would be a very small amount.

If your contact penetrates deep enough to really impact the blade you likely aren't spinning the ball well on your serve.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Matthew
06-03-2016, 01:10 PM
Thanks for the info guys, I'm still working on my serves, however I tend to feel that carbon blade impart more spin than all-wood blade due to the tiny feel or maybe Its just me :D

UpSideDownCarl
06-03-2016, 01:26 PM
Thanks for the info guys, I'm still working on my serves, however I tend to feel that carbon blade impart more spin than all-wood blade due to the tiny feel or maybe Its just me :D

If the blade was impacting things it would be the other way around.

Matthew
06-03-2016, 02:58 PM
Maybe I ought to change my method of serving, my serve is a little similar to Fan Zhendong and I have watched several videos of Ma Long serving (seems cool) and I had no idea the key factor to Ma Long serve @@, doesn't seem to me like Ma Long using a lot of wrist action, the way I see it, Ma long use the combination of body, elbow and wrist. Carl do you know anything about Ma Long style of serving?

UpSideDownCarl
06-03-2016, 04:15 PM
I have two ideas at the moment.

1) take a video of your serves and post it. There are plenty of people who will have good ideas to help you. It is true there may be a few fools who don't know what they are talking about who will say things that are annoying. But it is easy to ignore the comments that aren't helpful.

2) Look at Brett Clarke's service videos. He really explains the fundamental details of serving very very well.

Watching guys like Ma Long or Fan Zhendong to try and figure out what they are doing, well, it is not so easy. There is more going on with the serve than meets they eye. And a lot of the good habits those guys have, like keeping the elbow up and back, keeping the upper arm stable, staying low, having their upper back almost parallel to the ground, timing the hips to the contact, using the legs, the height of the ball when they contact, how close to the right side of their body the ball is when they contact, the very small, fast action from the whip of the wrist that is almost invisible.....should I keep going?

It is easy to miss most of the details and only concentrate on one or two. Also, the detail that is pretty much invisible is their touch and feel for the ball which helps them get so much spin.

But footage of you would help you see what you really are doing. Because most people think they are doing one thing and then when they see footage they see that they are doing something else.

So, if you have never watched footage of yourself, it is worth watching.

Last thing, if you learn properly and train well, you will end up with your own unique way of serving. Ultimately that will work better than trying to imitate someone else's serves.

One time the Who were recording the song and they wanted Keith Moon to play a part that was a "John Bonham" type drum part. He did take after take and it never sounded quite right. Then he got mad and told them: "screw you guys. I'm going to do it my way!" They did one take and it came out perfect. And that was the take they used on the album.

When that last take was done Keith Moon stood up and said "I am the best Keith Moon drummer in the world!" With his drumsticks and fists raised in defiance.

You can use how others do things to help you learn. But, in reality your serves will be their best when they are fundamentally sound but they are YOURS: not an imitation.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Matthew
06-03-2016, 04:41 PM
I forgot to mention, I'm not imitating Fan Zhendong's serve, I'm just stating my serve is a little similar to him, because I watched the video and trying to figure out the contact point and his movement, I'm asking about Ma Long's serve because I couldn't understand the key factor of his service, I'm just finding the key factor of his serves . This is a video of Fan Zhendong serving pendulum sidespin/underspin serve, he contacted the ball on the lower right point (more towards the bottom part to create lots of spin), and utilising the theory to create my own method :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZkqo1kK5QU&list=WL&index=74

PierreAd
06-03-2016, 07:12 PM
Given the thin brushing contact on the serve required for heavy backspin, I'd be surprised that blade would matter that much, unless we are talking about comfort of the handle and overall balance of the paddle making your wrist move more efficiently.

You did use the same rubbers on your XVP and whatever you compared it to, right?
Yep, I did use the same rubber (Xiom Vega Pro rubber, yeah I know, XVP rubber on XVP blade... ;) ) and it was really surprising to me as well, so that's why I particularly remember this. I suppose a bouncy / "catchy" blade makes a lot of difference, but like you, and considering what you say about the thin brushing contact on backspin, I was also surprised that the difference was so important. Maybe the spin in my serve was just on the verge of being visually more noticeable, and just a little more help from the blade was enough at that time. I can't explain it unfortunately. Anyway... was just my two cent, as I said I totally agree with you guys about the technique / wrist paramount importance.

Luis Nasche
06-03-2016, 08:00 PM
Matthew, the amount of spin is not about the contact point you makes on the ball, but with the same wrist action you can change the amount of spin just selecting the contact point of the ball on your blade. Closer to the edge means more spin while closer to the handle it means less spin. I use it a lot and my serves are my main weapon against a lot of better players because with about the same move I can change the kind and the amount of spin I'm putting on the ball. Good players will adapt, but it's one more weapon.

Der_Echte
06-03-2016, 08:30 PM
I get a little smile out of the "Impact at Tip of Bat" on serves to maximize spin. It is damned difficult to land the ball a few cm from tip of bat and not miss at least once in 5-15 swings. Heck, even Werner friggin' Schlager admits it is not high percentage enough to hit near the tip, that is why he goes for middle of the sweet spot.

I can get more than a little spin on serves, it is a much more developed part of my game. The blade plays a role, but I could get good spin whether I use a Schlager Carbon or a DEF blade. The most important thing is the impact. The way you execute your timing to get the ball into the topsheet and accelerate VERY quickly during that short time is crucial. So is your blade angle and direction of stroke. Condition of topsheet comes into play, and some topsheets serve a bit better and easier than others.

We could discuss all night the small stuff needed to do it all, but it comes down to being loose and relaxed, using leverage, and making efficient transfer of energy in the whip. Lots of fine bio-mechanics involved, but one can make great spin with a really simple short serve motion that doesn't have many moving parts.

Boogar
06-04-2016, 12:11 AM
I totally agree with the post of Der_

The only way i can think of that a blade has an impact on serving is the head weight so you get more bat speed... however thats just a minimal difference

Gene Tuttle
06-04-2016, 12:47 AM
I would think that the tackier the rubber is (higher coefficient of friction)the more spin you could impart with less forward velocity. Chinese sticky rubber and forehand for the win.

karan705
06-04-2016, 02:20 AM
I would say the blade does have influence but it also depends on the rubber and the person's skill. You don't have to imitate a person to learn the best service. Who did Waldner imitate? Nobody. He looked up to people but he had a unique style of playing. I really liked his backhand block and punch. Werner Schalger doesn't use his wrist. i think he uses his entire arm. Just because Ma Long is the best doesn't mean if you play like him you'll be world number one. You have to find who you are and what you like and later on develop on that. Well this is what i learned from my personal experience.

songdavid98
06-04-2016, 02:45 AM
I do not agree, blade does impact the spin you impart to the ball, both in game and during the serve. For instance, I remember perfectly when I tried the Xiom Vega Pro blade. It was the first time I did impart so much spin in my serve, it was really easy to make my backspin serve quickly return into the net... much more easily than what I can do with the other blades I've played with. It's a shame I didn't manage to handle it's head-heaviness because it's a sweet blade.

However I agree that the most important is the wrist action and the technique first ;)

I doubt changing that changing a blade will instantly make your serve have more spin. Different blades give you different feeling. Maybe that blade let you feel the spin you made for the first time. You were probably making the same amount of spin.
Either way, you don't hit the ball hard enough on your serve for the blade to make much of a difference, unless you are somehow world class.

The reaction with the topsheet, the amount the ball sinks into the sponge of your rubber, and the way you contact the ball with your swing matters much more than the blade.

However, skill is way more important than your equipment. I don't really understand why so many people on this forum here care so much about the equipment. I guess few people have the time and dedication to just practice their serves and techniques. I guess people think that awesome equipment will be the magic formula to improve their gameplay.

Don't look for equipment to improve your game. Look to yourself for improvement. It's the long term option

Matthew
06-04-2016, 08:20 AM
Thank you very much for the advice from you guys, appreciate it :)