Tips for Improving Stroke Quality and Fundamentals

says Spin and more spin.
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Here's a video of me doing some 3rd ball with my friend. This was in February, so I've probably gotten a bit better since this video was taken.


https://goo.gl/photos/hzJqmwnnrXH565KTA

Hey laistrogian, I thought this might be useful and rather than continuing it in the other thread, I thought I would make a new thread to help you and anyone else who wants to improve their basic strokes and fundamentals.

What got me thinking about this was the video you posted. I am not going to analyze the technique. I do think ttmonster did a good job of that. I am just going to give you a few ideas for how to improve your strokes. Hopefully this will help you. But also, hopefully it help a bunch of people with ways to think out of the box and do things to improve their fundamentals. So, hint to you guys who like finding fault in other people's technique. This thread is not about that. It is about giving players extra tools to develop and improve their technique.

So I am going to start off with a few ideas:

1) Analyzing video footage on a regular basis will really help any player improve because, what we think we are doing and what we realize when we see what we are actually doing are often very different. So analyzing footage can help us correct things we didn't realize we were doing.

2) Shadow strokes and shadow strokes with footwork, particularly with a mirror so we can adjust what we are doing while we do it can really help.

3) Self hitting to try to develop better touch and brush contact.

I am sure other people will have more great ideas. But I am going to start with these.

Here red are some videos for ideas. I have posted all of these before. But they fit with this subject.

Shadow strokes:


Self Hitting:


Now, for laistrogian, I think he actually needs to work on a much smaller more compact stroke to start out with. He may even be helped by simple counterhitting like what the pros use at the beginning of a match to get their timing. But these kinds of exercises could very well help any number of people improve their technique. The nice thing about shadow strokes is, you can start getting a better stroke into muscle memory without even having a table or a hitting partner. The thing to realize though, is that, when you have to adjust to a ball, your body does not simply do the stroke that you did while shadowing. Same thing with self hitting. But over time these types of things can help your technique develop.


 
says Spin and more spin.
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I left my all-wood blades in US and won't be back until september, so... yeah...

This is too bad. The video shows some of what I thought. The most important things you need to improve, your touch and feel, it's not really going to happen with those carbon blades.

There are a lot of other issues going on that are big and holding you back. But learning how to tone it down and feel the ball on the rubber would be a huge help for your development and some wood blade would be good to have if you are training where you are.

If money isn't a problem for you, why don't you just get whatever setup you really want:

Acoustic with Omega V Pro/Euurope, or Vega Pro/Europe. Or really any one of these blades:

1) Stiga Allround Evolution
2) Yasaka Sweden Extra
3) Stiga Offensive Classic
4) OSP Virtuoso Off-

I left out the Stratus Power Wood because you already said you don't like it. But it would still be a good choice and I think if you played with one long enough you would feel why it is a good blade.


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This is too bad. The video shows some of what I thought. The most important things you need to improve, your touch and feel, it's not really going to happen with those carbon blades.

There are a lot of other issues going on that are big and holding you back. But learning how to tone it down and feel the ball on the rubber would be a huge help for your development and some wood blade would be good to have if you are training where you are.

If money isn't a problem for you, why don't you just get whatever setup you really want:

Acoustic with Omega V Pro/Euurope, or Vega Pro/Europe. Or really any one of these blades:

1) Stiga Allround Evolution
2) Yasaka Sweden Extra
3) Stiga Offensive Classic
4) OSP Virtuoso Off-

I left out the Stratus Power Wood because you already said you don't like it. But it would still be a good choice and I think if you played with one long enough you would feel why it is a good blade.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

A thread dedicated for me (although it's just because how bad I am :p)!!!

Would samsonov alpha be a good alternative? I'm most tempted with Stiga OC between the 4 you listed but I can get samsonov alpha the easiest
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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A thread dedicated for me (although it's just because how bad I am :p)!!!

Would samsonov alpha be a good alternative? I'm most tempted with Stiga OC between the 4 you listed but I can get samsonov alpha the easiest

On paper the Samsonov Alpha seems like it would be fine. I've never hit with one, so I will leave that for someone who has, for a real answer. But I think it would be fine. So would the Stiga Allround Classic. Even if I like the feel of the Offensive S and the Stratus Power Wood better.

As far as the thread. I did not really make it to be about you. But rather about excercises that would help someone refine techniques so many members could contribute and also be helped. I give Archosaurus some credit in being very creative at finding ways to improve without access to good coaching or higher level players to help.

I decided the conversation that was happening on the "Chit Chat" thread was worth continuing to delve into because it was still in progress but I didn't want it to take over and hijack that thread.

But if the starting point of the thread helps you to clean up your technique and develop more touch and better feel, then I think that would be a pretty good starting point.

You obviously really love the game and know a lot. A few shifts in emphasis in stroke production could really help your technique develop. And I am guessing that your game skills are better than your technique so taking the game skills and upping the technique would definitely cause a jump in level.



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Friend, nobody is good or bad ! Its just about finding out the right set of tools and the mindset to improve and be the best you can be within your limitations. All of us very bad compared to Ma Long or Zhang Jike :p

Jokes aside, and with disclaimer that I am not a big EJ or can break it down like Carl, here is my experience ...
I have a Samsonov Alpha with tenergy on either side and I used it for a couple of sessions and never went back to it, it felt terribly slow. I have always been using ZJK ALC with Tenergy 05 and the SA felt like a damp squib . Also the head size is much smaller compared to others.

However, I have changed the rubbers in the last six months to DHS Hurricane 8 on the forehand with ZJK ALC . I can try to take it out again and play with it and give you more feedback ....

Having read most of the recommendations from Carl , I would go with what Carl / NextLevel recommended you in the beginning . And... I will again recommend you to be prepared to work a lot on your technique ... no short cuts .. .



A thread dedicated for me (although it's just because how bad I am :p)!!!

Would samsonov alpha be a good alternative? I'm most tempted with Stiga OC between the 4 you listed but I can get samsonov alpha the easiest
 
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hi guys,let me know if im in the wrong thread ,but reading the headline made me curious,so i was wondering is there a thread (besides this one) for helping with technique,strategies ?so my question is two fold,a wooden blade is better for improving technique? is a timo boll w7 a good choice?and secondly those are great videos USDCarl,are there any on attacking the third ball ,im curious about this since i know nothing about it and sounds like something i would like to try and work on,just a thought there should be a thread for us to send videos and some of the more experienced point out what we need to work on!just a thought,thanks sorry for the rambling
 
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hi guys,let me know if im in the wrong thread ,but reading the headline made me curious,so i was wondering is there a thread (besides this one) for helping with technique,strategies ?so my question is two fold,a wooden blade is better for improving technique? is a timo boll w7 a good choice?and secondly those are great videos USDCarl,are there any on attacking the third ball ,im curious about this since i know nothing about it and sounds like something i would like to try and work on,just a thought there should be a thread for us to send videos and some of the more experienced point out what we need to work on!just a thought,thanks sorry for the rambling

Just about any wood blade beats any composite blade, though the slower the wood blade in the beginning the better. One problem is that the faster wood blades are thicker, so compromises have to be found between comfort and speed. That said, the lack of speed is not bad as it is part of the learning experience in the beginning. Fast all wood is a compromise but is really still for advanced or semi-advanced players. I know quite a few high level players who use either a 5-ply like the Korbel or an all-wood 7ply just because they need the feeling - they lose their feeling with carbon. The closest approximation of wood in a composite is the Innerforce series, but it is really just throwing away money if you don't have the swing speed to benefit from it at the right playing distances.

Look at the chart below:

http://www.butterflyonline.com/Templates/BladeSpecifications.pdf

The thing is this - good stroke technique reduces vibrations. When you swing really hard, you may get more vibrations than you like, and that is a problem for advanced players who are often returning powerful balls and already have exceptional feeling and control. Beginners or intermediates who swing really hard are usually doing so with bad technique, so they need to learn to swing with vibration reducing technique so they can appreciate what they should be doing with composites. But if with a composite, you lose the information that helps you swing better, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with just sticking with a wood blade.

IF you post on any thread with any video looking for advice, many of the more experienced forum members will gladly help you out. We are mostly not experts - we are just people who spent a lot of time trying to improve at an older age and look at the game from a slightly different perspective.
 
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Friend, nobody is good or bad ! Its just about finding out the right set of tools and the mindset to improve and be the best you can be within your limitations. All of us very bad compared to Ma Long or Zhang Jike :p

Jokes aside, and with disclaimer that I am not a big EJ or can break it down like Carl, here is my experience ...
I have a Samsonov Alpha with tenergy on either side and I used it for a couple of sessions and never went back to it, it felt terribly slow. I have always been using ZJK ALC with Tenergy 05 and the SA felt like a damp squib . Also the head size is much smaller compared to others.

However, I have changed the rubbers in the last six months to DHS Hurricane 8 on the forehand with ZJK ALC . I can try to take it out again and play with it and give you more feedback ....

Having read most of the recommendations from Carl , I would go with what Carl / NextLevel recommended you in the beginning . And... I will again recommend you to be prepared to work a lot on your technique ... no short cuts .. .
As an EJ, here are some of my thoughts:

Tenergy 05 is not as fast a rubber as some people think. IF you want to use an all wood blade slower than OFF-, I suspect that most 1600+ people will prefer to use T80 or T64 on such blades. That said, I think that what usually first causes the issue with going to a slower blade is perception. I am sure that even with Samsonov Alpha, your spin and consistency will go up and you will beat many players, but your internal feeling of the effort you are putting in and the blocks when you are lazy and far from the table will frustrate you.

The main thing is that people need to break the speed and carbon addiction. While you don't want a blade that is too slow, you want a blade that helps you appreciate that spin wins points. You want a blade whose feedback into your hand gives you an idea of how you contacted the ball.

Even some young advanced players are very surprised when they have used composite for a greater part of their life and go to a wood blade at the recommendation of some coach. I tell people all the time to play with anything for at least a month. IT takes at least one month for something to fully reveal itself.
 
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I've been practicing self-hitting double bounce a few times and it's nice and entertaining but I always worry about my timing given that in play the ball comes to you after bouncing and in this drill it does vertically. Those who practice this often, what are your experience about this?

Feeding multiball improves stroke technique and this is not that different. The most important thing is to work on elements of your form and to record yourself. IF you know what you are trying to achieve, the exercise helps. Ball timing can be fully learned in other contexts.

Does getting feeds from a player/coach/robot help? Sure. But with self multiball, you can at least fix your form and concentrate on just that. In table tennis, everyone is in a rush to improve so we don't like to break things apart and fix them one by one and sometimes, the sport is too complex to do so properly. But I will tell you that you will be rewarded for getting the form of your stroke right.
 
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It's nice that I can sit back and have all those questions answered so well.

@ Lucas, NL did a good job of answering the blade question and explaining why 5 ply, all wood blades with a speed rating in the All+/Off- range are useful.

As to third ball attack videos, I think, making a video of someone doing a third ball attack is a decent idea. I have not gotten around to doing one yet even though I really like doing those drills. But in any match from pros or amateurs, when someone serves, the next person pushes, and the server loops the push, that is a third ball attack. So you have probably seen more 3rd ball attack footage than you realize. Any time Ma Long does one of those crazy loops to an opponent's push, that is a classic third ball attack.

As far as a thread with video footage of yourself for more experienced players to help you improve: the way that usually works is, you film yourself. You make a thread. And you post the video. The thread would become a bit of a mess if lots of people posted footage in one thread asking for advice. It would be hard to tell who the useful advice was for.

So go ahead and make some footage and make a thread. You may get some foolish comments from people who don't know what they are talking about. But you will also get some good advice from people who do know what they are saying.

@Smash or be smashed: the drill of self hitting does not teach you to track and intercept the ball. It does not teach you to adjust to things like the sidespin or topspin or backspin that is on an incoming ball. It does not teach you to adjust to varied pace. But it does give you the touch and feel of contact and the ability to improve stroke mechanics and get them into muscle memory.

Tracking, moving to, and intercepting (contacting with a stroke rather than putting your racket in front of the ball) are skills you will also need to develop. But if the stroke mechanics you have in muscle memory are bad, improving your ability to track and intercept the ball won't usually improve what you have in muscle memory as a stroke.

The shadow strokes won't help you track and intercept the ball better either. But practicing that will help you do a better stroke when you do track the ball properly and it will also help you do the footwork to get there better. It is much harder to learn to coordinate your stroke with the movement of the rest of the body without any shadow training. For kids it is much more possible. But it still will happen faster with some shadow training.

So, since there are so many skills involved, simultaneously, in high level table tennis play, compartmentalizing the skills you work on can help.

For example, doing shadow strokes and footwork drills off the table before trying them with multiball. Self hitting to improve strokes and then trying with someone feeding you. Working on certain skills separately ultimately helps you start connecting those skills at a higher level.


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