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TurboZ
08-24-2016, 04:23 PM
Recently Li Xiaoxia retired and Zhang Jike may be retiring. Will we see Liu Guoliang follow the same path? In a recent interview with Sohu.com Liu talks about the rumours and speculation: http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/content.php?1087-Liu-Guoliang-Talks-About-The-rumour-Of-Stepping-Down-As-Head-Coach!

Will Liu retire?

cmhtbx
08-24-2016, 04:32 PM
100% he will not retire, he is making a lot of bucks these years and pretty much have no pressure at all, maybe he will consider retire after 2024 olympics lol

Cypher
08-24-2016, 05:30 PM
100% he will not retire, he is making a lot of bucks these years and pretty much have no pressure at all, maybe he will consider retire after 2024 olympics lol

He really does make a lot of money, especially that the government provides food and lodgings for him. But I do think that he is highly stressed out and definitely wouldnt be surprised to not see him at the 2020 olympics.

Still one of the greatest caoches ever. Really gets to know his players and focuses a lot on the psychological aspect of coaching

ttmonster
08-24-2016, 06:13 PM
I don't think Zhang Jike has announced his retirement , I saw his facebook post saying he is back in training ! This is all chinese tabloid news .. if there is an official announcement , there will be a press release from ITTF ...

What little I could understand from LGL's interview, given the translation was accurate, he wants to cull his role to focus on championships , we have already seen the CNT travelling to pro tours without LGL , so I don't think this is news ...

TT4Life
08-24-2016, 06:44 PM
He was biting his wedding ring at the end of the team match :) i dont know, maybe take some time off with his family and then decide :) if he later on decide to retired, then he needs to train WH and Ma Lin to be coaches :)

Dan
08-24-2016, 07:38 PM
I wondered that, if Liu Guoliang was to retire who would take up the position?

ttmonster
08-24-2016, 07:43 PM
How about Zhang Jike's dad .... can't think of any other candidate ... :P .... I know @NextLevel will put up a brilliant case for Ma Long's dad , but I have already made clear where my allegiances lie as a fan ;)


I wondered that, if Liu Guoliang was to retire who would take up the position?

TurboZ
08-24-2016, 07:52 PM
I don't think LGL will retired from working altogether, but only step down from the stressful position of Head Coach and take up another role as a government officer like his predecessor Cai Zhenhua. That way he can do more to the development of the sport instead of just focusing on coaching/counseling players to win gold. My question will be who is going to replace him if LGL really step down. Seems like he is irreplaceable because of all his outstanding achievement.

cmhtbx
08-24-2016, 09:31 PM
I don't think LGL will retired from working altogether, but only step down from the stressful position of Head Coach and take up another role as a government officer like his predecessor Cai Zhenhua. That way he can do more to the development of the sport instead of just focusing on coaching/counseling players to win gold. My question will be who is going to replace him if LGL really step down. Seems like he is irreplaceable because of all his outstanding achievement.

right, and I think only the ppl who got grand slams are competent to be the head coach, not wang hao/wang liqin( didn't win Olympic), not Ma Lin(didn't win WTTC single). so either Zhangjike or Ma Long are competent to be the head coach now. but don't think LGL will retire before 2020/2024,

TT4Life
08-24-2016, 10:01 PM
Just want to added to that, there are players coach, and there are just players. Some special players can really coach and will be come great coaches, most others just great players but not really good coaches :) that is a fact :P .

NextLevel
08-24-2016, 10:08 PM
People exaggerate this head coach grand slam winner thing. In any case, LGL retired really young and he was a brilliant server. There is something about the mindset that goes behind brilliant serving that makes one ideal for analytical coaching...

So I think only Ma Long and Xu Xin are qualified. I also suspect that Kong Linghui may get a promotion if the time is right. Wang Hao is the other guy I can think of.

NextLevel
08-24-2016, 10:12 PM
How about Zhang Jike's dad .... can't think of any other candidate ... :P .... I know @NextLevel will put up a brilliant case for Ma Long's dad , but I have already made clear where my allegiances lie as a fan ;)

Your allegiances are well founded. Ma Long has not played a match that has excited me as much as ZJK-JYS. Until then, ZJK is on my TT Mount Olympus and can do whatever he wants and I will approve 100%. They should create a special position for him on the CNT that he can come into and play whenever he wants until he dies.


I mean, how many people can get told by their coach to let the opponent feel their presence that they are Zhang Jike? After seeing that match, I understood why the coach told him that 3 years ago.

JesperStef
08-24-2016, 10:23 PM
Interesting thought about the possibility of Liu retiring: at the beginning of Liu's "reign" as head coach (2004-2005), the Chinese wasn't that strong - relatively of course ;-)

- 2004 Olympics: Not winning the gold medal (Ryu SM) and Ma Lin and Wang Hao/Kong LH losing early in doubles.
- 2005 WTTC: "Only" gold and silver for China (Oh Sang Eun and Maze).
- 2005 World Cup: Boll winning after beating all three top Chinese in a row (Wang Liqin, Ma Lin and Wang Hao).

If a new head coach experience similar problems in the beginning, it could make China a little less dominant - at least for a while...? :)

ttmonster
08-24-2016, 11:08 PM
I mean, how many people can get told by their coach to let the opponent feel their presence that they are Zhang Jike? After seeing that match, I understood why the coach told him that 3 years ago.

Hey, I was just joking , I was enjoying your arguments on ML vs ZJK very much ... where did you get this nugget , is there any translated commentary video ? I would be very much interested in seeing it ...

Raylazyfo
08-25-2016, 01:44 PM
Kong Linghui?

Raylazyfo
08-25-2016, 02:31 PM
Wait oops forgot hes the coach of the womens team

Tony's Table Tennis
08-25-2016, 08:55 PM
CNT did have a new rule of coaches of China can't be over 40 years old (when applying)
I can't remember and don't have time to dig, but I do suspect the next "renew" of coaching contract may be coming up soon.

If based on the last update of rules, LGL will be too old to reapply for a coaching role in CNT
Same applies for KLH as they are both 40 years old

Wang Liqin, Wang Hao, Ma Lin all having been "champion" in some way may be the front runners in the men's team.
As other CNT men's coach didn't really have players track record to be head coach.
I recall head coach (for mens or women's team) require to be a previous world champion

So my saying continues, being a table tennis star in China is not easy.
Your playing career is not long
Your coaching career (in national team) is not long too

Of the 2 kings and 1 horse (wang and ma), I would say Ma Lin seems to be the best head coach material out of the 3
My bet with WLQ being women's head coach

Syed Mansoor Qutab
08-25-2016, 09:41 PM
I feel that Wang Liqin should. I've seen him sit in the stands in the Olympics, in the CNT practice matches. I feel he is a good option.

TurboZ
08-26-2016, 01:22 AM
If it is between the three champions of the past generation then my best bet is WH. Don't think they want to give up penhold just yet. Hope we can get the answer soon.

Tony's Table Tennis
08-26-2016, 07:11 PM
Hope all 3 can be head coaches

1 for Mens Head Coach
1 for Women's Head Coach
1 for CNT Head Coach

Sad no female champion is staying to be coach.
I doubt LXX will stay
WN, ZYN all pretty much married and have kids now.

Mikael Berglund
08-26-2016, 11:20 PM
I don't think it will be his decision. Remember that Cai Zhenhua was the head coach, but was drafted into the sports administration of China. He is now the deputy Director of State General Administration of Sports. This path could have been selected for LGL as well.

pingpongdingdong
08-27-2016, 08:05 AM
I believe the Men's head coach will be either Ma Lin, Wang Hao or Wang Liqin. Wang Liqin seems to be the best candidate in my opinion, seeing as the majority of players are now using the shakehand grip. Keep in mind that Wang Liqin was also a 3 time world champion, nearly 4, and always performed well at big events. It also seems like he is the only one who is constantly watching them. I've seen him many times at different events after his retirement. I believe he was at Rio as well.

Tony's Table Tennis
08-27-2016, 01:01 PM
I don't think it will be his decision. Remember that Cai Zhenhua was the head coach, but was drafted into the sports administration of China. He is now the deputy Director of State General Administration of Sports. This path could have been selected for LGL as well.

It is no different as the west
He must accept the decision/job offer.
Some how your statement feels like a military command and that LGL is force to accept it.

LGL can choose to decline too, but as every country is, all decisions are also made with political backgrounds, LGL will for sure be looked after, after exiting his job inside CNT

Epid3xia
08-27-2016, 04:29 PM
Why can you assume that a good player is also a good coach? I mean most coaches in football(soccer) were not great players and are way better at coaching than their players.

Are good tabletennis players good coaches because the sport heavily relies on an analytic mind? Or is it enough to have been taught to be a top 4 player of the world that you can teach it to others as well like in the old times where a master of his trade will learn his student to become a master as well?

ttmonster
08-27-2016, 04:43 PM
You are right table tennis is too technical for people who have not lived the life .... look at the top coaches in table tennis ... how many do you see who where not pros at some time , I think the number is closer to zero ...
Another way to say it is , unless you have done it yourself , you won't be able to see the subtleties at the top level ...



Why can you assume that a good player is also a good coach? I mean most coaches in football(soccer) were not great players and are way better at coaching than their players.

Are good tabletennis players good coaches because the sport heavily relies on an analytic mind? Or is it enough to have been taught to be a top 4 player of the world that you can teach it to others as well like in the old times where a master of his trade will learn his student to become a master as well?

NextLevel
08-27-2016, 05:39 PM
Why can you assume that a good player is also a good coach? I mean most coaches in football(soccer) were not great players and are way better at coaching than their players.

Are good tabletennis players good coaches because the sport heavily relies on an analytic mind? Or is it enough to have been taught to be a top 4 player of the world that you can teach it to others as well like in the old times where a master of his trade will learn his student to become a master as well?It's largely the nature of table tennis.

UpSideDownCarl
08-27-2016, 05:42 PM
You are right table tennis is too technical for people who have not lived the life .... look at the top coaches in table tennis ... how many do you see who where not pros at some time , I think the number is closer to zero ...
Another way to say it is , unless you have done it yourself , you won't be able to see the subtleties at the top level ...

I think you have put your finger on the actual issue. There is so much that is so subtle that happens in TT that someone who isn't high enough level just can't really understand some of the things that are going on with some of the guys who are playing at the top levels.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

Tony's Table Tennis
08-27-2016, 08:23 PM
Why can you assume that a good player is also a good coach? I mean most coaches in football(soccer) were not great players and are way better at coaching than their players.

Are good tabletennis players good coaches because the sport heavily relies on an analytic mind? Or is it enough to have been taught to be a top 4 player of the world that you can teach it to others as well like in the old times where a master of his trade will learn his student to become a master as well?

You raise a very good point.
This is what makes table tennis so difficult and so special. It is a football match with your tacticians
It is your "speed chess" with decisions required to be made in a split second
It is your racket sport - where whole body movement, technique, endurance etc comes into play

For one to make it to the top level as a player - requires one to master all of the above.
For one to become a world champion from China, requires to go through a good 20+ years of hardship and defeats the odds with the amount of pressure and discipline from a huge pool of competitors and political challenges.
It is not uncommon that Chinese players require to make more sacrifices to succeed than oppose to other countries.

As the Chinese playing and coaching cycle being very "young"
player retire at 30, coaches retire at 40 odd
This has been the current formula of making sure that the coaching staff is young and up to date with the game itself.
The rules are forever changing, and with 40+ we have already seen a different preparation in training methodology and I gather it is because there is young coaches who are driving the change, than compared to your older coaches which could be more "traditional"

My answer to your question, is 99% of the time, this formula will work.
Whats nice in CNT part is that it is not 1 coach, but rather a whole team of coaching staff and sport sciences, medial team, trainers etc so this is why CNT is so strong. It is not a one man show

Epid3xia
08-29-2016, 12:15 PM
You raise a very good point.
This is what makes table tennis so difficult and so special. It is a football match with your tacticians
It is your "speed chess" with decisions required to be made in a split second
It is your racket sport - where whole body movement, technique, endurance etc comes into play

For one to make it to the top level as a player - requires one to master all of the above.
For one to become a world champion from China, requires to go through a good 20+ years of hardship and defeats the odds with the amount of pressure and discipline from a huge pool of competitors and political challenges.
It is not uncommon that Chinese players require to make more sacrifices to succeed than oppose to other countries.

As the Chinese playing and coaching cycle being very "young"
player retire at 30, coaches retire at 40 odd
This has been the current formula of making sure that the coaching staff is young and up to date with the game itself.
The rules are forever changing, and with 40+ we have already seen a different preparation in training methodology and I gather it is because there is young coaches who are driving the change, than compared to your older coaches which could be more "traditional"

My answer to your question, is 99% of the time, this formula will work.
Whats nice in CNT part is that it is not 1 coach, but rather a whole team of coaching staff and sport sciences, medial team, trainers etc so this is why CNT is so strong. It is not a one man show

Thank you for your insight on such an interestig topic.

I have to note one thing tough, my analogy to a football trainer is pretty dumb actually. Football is a team-sport and table tennis is an individual sport. I guess an analogy to tennis would be much better. But there it's pretty mixed. Top of the world players who became coaches and others who were not very successfull on the world stage are world class coaches as well. It may be that technique is less and tactics is more important in tennis than in table tennis.

Tony's Table Tennis
08-29-2016, 05:24 PM
Thank you for your insight on such an interestig topic.

I have to note one thing tough, my analogy to a football trainer is pretty dumb actually. Football is a team-sport and table tennis is an individual sport. I guess an analogy to tennis would be much better. But there it's pretty mixed. Top of the world players who became coaches and others who were not very successfull on the world stage are world class coaches as well. It may be that technique is less and tactics is more important in tennis than in table tennis.

Well, table tennis by far imo is a lot more complicated sport than football.
Yes team vs individual does have a huge different.
Team can always win by strategy or tactics, but not in table tennis.

There is so many factors in table tennis and from CNT coaching vs players comparison, it is not just about technique, but a huge part is mental part of the game.
A 0.1% increase in the mental depart,emt can cause the player to win from loosing.
This is why CNT focus so much on mental training compared to other countries.

Anyways, coming back to the coaching role, the Head Coach needs to go through this as a soldier for him/her to become the leader. A leader where the new soldier will respect and follow

Epid3xia
08-30-2016, 10:12 AM
Well, table tennis by far imo is a lot more complicated sport than football.
Yes team vs individual does have a huge different.
Team can always win by strategy or tactics, but not in table tennis.

There is so many factors in table tennis and from CNT coaching vs players comparison, it is not just about technique, but a huge part is mental part of the game.
A 0.1% increase in the mental depart,emt can cause the player to win from loosing.
This is why CNT focus so much on mental training compared to other countries.

Anyways, coming back to the coaching role, the Head Coach needs to go through this as a soldier for him/her to become the leader. A leader where the new soldier will respect and follow


Wow you have a lot of insight to this whole coaching stuff of the chinese. How do you get to know such things?

Well, Liu Guoliang looks like the right man for the right job in my eyes. As for his successor, I don't feel like that none of Wang Liqin, Ma Lin or Wang Hao have that Godfather-esque charisma that Liu Guoliang has. Well that sounds a bit exaggerated, but I hope you get what I mean.

Maybe they develop that when they become the lead coach. My best bet, when I focus on that, is Wang Hao. He has a special energy/strength in his appearance. But what do I know. Maybe Wang Liqin is the best guy for the job because he already heavily influenced the sport in the past with his playing style. The ability to do that might help him to further develop the CNT players to become even better.

But what do you guys think? If the headcoach retires at 40 years old, then Wang Liqin would be head coach for only 2 years, Ma Lin for 4 and Wang Hao for 8. I think 2 years is too short for a head coach to be effective but they might make an exception for WLQ because of his special skill set.


But now when I think about WLQ and his influence in TT. Was it him who influenced the sport or did his coach tell him how to play and so change the game?

Allen Wang
08-30-2016, 07:00 PM
Rumors are that Ma Lin will be new head coach and Liu Guoliang will be promoted for a higher position in the sports federation of China.

UpSideDownCarl
08-30-2016, 07:30 PM
Ma Lin seems like the logical choice to me if they really do decide it is time for a change. He seems to me to be the most tactical and analytic of the three.

But I don't think they should change things. The reason seems too arbitrary to me.

Regardless, we shall see in due time what CNT choose to do.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

Tony's Table Tennis
08-30-2016, 08:01 PM
Rumors are that Ma Lin will be new head coach and Liu Guoliang will be promoted for a higher position in the sports federation of China.

Hey Mr Verified Pro Player

Tony's Table Tennis
08-30-2016, 08:04 PM
Wow you have a lot of insight to this whole coaching stuff of the chinese. How do you get to know such things?

Well, Liu Guoliang looks like the right man for the right job in my eyes. As for his successor, I don't feel like that none of Wang Liqin, Ma Lin or Wang Hao have that Godfather-esque charisma that Liu Guoliang has. Well that sounds a bit exaggerated, but I hope you get what I mean.

Maybe they develop that when they become the lead coach. My best bet, when I focus on that, is Wang Hao. He has a special energy/strength in his appearance. But what do I know. Maybe Wang Liqin is the best guy for the job because he already heavily influenced the sport in the past with his playing style. The ability to do that might help him to further develop the CNT players to become even better.

But what do you guys think? If the headcoach retires at 40 years old, then Wang Liqin would be head coach for only 2 years, Ma Lin for 4 and Wang Hao for 8. I think 2 years is too short for a head coach to be effective but they might make an exception for WLQ because of his special skill set.


But now when I think about WLQ and his influence in TT. Was it him who influenced the sport or did his coach tell him how to play and so change the game?

I guess its just from experience and know/hearing what goes around.
Ma Lin to me fits the profile better compared to the 2 kings.

Regarding 40 years old, the rule is during application, a coach can't be more than 40 years old.
They can be 39 and apply for 4 years job contract, so they finish at 43 etc.

I'm not sure what you mean by WLQ influence to TT though

Tony's Table Tennis
08-30-2016, 08:07 PM
Ma Lin seems like the logical choice to me if they really do decide it is time for a change. He seems to me to be the most tactical and analytic of the three.

But I don't think they should change things. The reason seems too arbitrary to me.

Regardless, we shall see in due time what CNT choose to do.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

Yep, and Ma Lin is maybe also best speaker of the 3
The best mind and the best mouth imo

Well, the rules was set up by CTTT, LGL and KLH also need to follow it.
They will be too old to reapply for being a CNT coach.
That press release a few year back was indeed a tough one. only the best of the best can make it. and make it for a short time too.

Epid3xia
08-31-2016, 12:17 PM
I guess its just from experience and know/hearing what goes around.
Ma Lin to me fits the profile better compared to the 2 kings.

Regarding 40 years old, the rule is during application, a coach can't be more than 40 years old.
They can be 39 and apply for 4 years job contract, so they finish at 43 etc.

I'm not sure what you mean by WLQ influence to TT though

I see.

About WLQ, well I have heard that from someone who I have deemed to be a credible source. I can't recall who it was but I think it was a commentator. But it seems like he was wrong with this statement. And now when I think about it, commentators can talk a lot of crap. I have to be more carefull next time I listen to some commentators.

ttmonster
08-31-2016, 02:22 PM
Lets take it a little further , I think thats the reason Zhang Jike has un-retired , once Ma Lin becomes the coach , he and Ma Lin can bet as much as they want without fearing for retribution, I saw the recent ITTF post saying ZJK is planning to target Tokyo 2020 , big ZJK fan but I am no able to wrap my brain around how , may be for the Special Olympics ... :D

Rumors are that Ma Lin will be new head coach and Liu Guoliang will be promoted for a higher position in the sports federation of China.

Optik
08-31-2016, 04:42 PM
i dont think you have to retire when you are 40 or max. 44(according to tony appl. at max 40 with 4 yars contract)...if that were true coach wu (xu xins, ma lins, wang haos coach) should have long retired already but as we all know he didnt.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Tony's Table Tennis
08-31-2016, 05:00 PM
i dont think you have to retire when you are 40 or max. 44(according to tony appl. at max 40 with 4 yars contract)...if that were true coach wu (xu xins, ma lins, wang haos coach) should have long retired already but as we all know he didnt.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.

lol, so you saying CTTA press release is a lie?

Wu jingping age was also explained in a press release last year from CTTA
Just go and google it
He is also due to retiring for the coming olympic cycle

Tony's Table Tennis
08-31-2016, 06:20 PM
I went to dig my old post on Mytt, where I was on before coming to TTD

I did a translation for that article, and I see it is actually 50 years old and not 40 - my apologies.

Here is it:

Chinese National Table Tennis Coach Selection



Time: Oct 26, 2012
Location: Beijing Tiantan Hotel
Selection Range: National Team
Vacancies:

National A Team Mens Head Coach x 1
National A Team Womens Head Coach x 1
National A Team Mens coach x 5
National A Team Womens coach x 5
National B Team Mens Head Coach x1
National B Team Womens Head Coach x 1
National B Team Mens Coach x 4
National B Teams Womens Coach x 4
National A Team Mens Research Coach x 1
National B Team Womens Research Coach x 1
Physical Trainer x 1-2


Selection Conditions:

Basic Conditions:

Health
Loves Table Tennis Coaching
Good works Ethics
Accept tasks from Head Coach


National Team Coach minimum conditions

College or higher
Intermediate Coaching certificate
2 Years coaching experience



Additional to the above three, need to have one of the following conditions:


Active National team coach (including National B team)
Active Provincial and Top Table Tennis Team Coach
Coach of the top 3 teams in the China Table Tennis Super League
In a Foreign Country, led participants to achieve Top 5 ranking in World championship, World Cup or Olympic Games
Having personally won World Champion, Olympic Games, World Cup

Selection for Head Coach: A formal member of the Chinese National Team and participate at World Championship, World Cup or Olympic Games and have been world champion as a player
Head Coach age must be under the age of 50 years. Special circumstances may be considered
National B Team Coach minimal condition

College or higher
Intermediate Coaching certificate
2 Years Coaching Experience
Foreign Language communication skills



Additional to the above three, need to have one of the following conditions:


National Team coaching experience
Provincial Team coaching experience
Holds a Coaching Master’s Degree at Table Tennis Sports School (Top Coach at Table Tennis sport school)

Physical Trainer must possess the following:

Undergraduate Degree in Physcial Training
2 Years experience in professional sports – fitness and rehabilitation
Strong communication skills, and actively cooperate to complete task on hand
No nationality restrictions





the hiring process will occur on 26 Oct,
which includes interviews, and Q&A, spot test etc.
This is the same hiring process as any managerial position in any huge corporate.
If you fail the interview or any one of the many interviews that will happen that day, you are out of the job.

One of my friends - coach of Hei Longjiang mens team share this with me. I am only 30% done with the translation

end of copy and paste

Allen Wang
08-31-2016, 10:55 PM
Lets take it a little further , I think thats the reason Zhang Jike has un-retired , once Ma Lin becomes the coach , he and Ma Lin can bet as much as they want without fearing for retribution, I saw the recent ITTF post saying ZJK is planning to target Tokyo 2020 , big ZJK fan but I am no able to wrap my brain around how , may be for the Special Olympics ... :D

it might seem like ZJK wil unable to even compete with the other players, but he has a beast inside. If the beast is training, working and fighting hard for 2020 tokyo, I think he can still make it again ;) but in his current state, I doubt he can even be top 4 in the country.

Tony's Table Tennis
09-01-2016, 08:16 PM
it might seem like ZJK wil unable to even compete with the other players, but he has a beast inside. If the beast is training, working and fighting hard for 2020 tokyo, I think he can still make it again ;) but in his current state, I doubt he can even be top 4 in the country.

enough with ZJK and Tokyo
lets start with Allen Wang and Tokyo!

Allen Wang
09-03-2016, 05:52 AM
enough with ZJK and Tokyo
lets start with Allen Wang and Tokyo!

Hahaha! Oh tony! We'll see about that ;)

Tony's Table Tennis
09-03-2016, 11:36 AM
Hahaha! Oh tony! We'll see about that ;)


You work hard, and I will work hard and hope my player qualifies, then I will see you in Tokyo!