How to play against flat hitters.

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Recently at my club there have been some newer players that LOVE to flat hit the ball instead of spinning it. I sometimes lose to these people as they can create so much speed that I can't hit it back let alone get to the ball. Quite frustrating really. Is there a strategy to beating this type of player apart from playing to their weaker side constantly?
 

lyh

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lyh

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Maybe if you put more spin in your shots, it will be harder to hit? Usually, it is quit easy to hit a popped up short ball, so pay attention to your short game. Keep it low. Otherwise, there are ways to get away with long pushes: push deep with spin. Maybe you could explain a little more in detail?
 
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you have options.

1. don't give them a ball that's too high. they can't flat hit a ball fast if it's too low.

2. you can't passively block these close to the table so don't do this

3. if you're close to the table you need to be prepared to actively counter hit the ball. not loop the ball. grazing it is almost impossible if it's fast and you're close to the table and their ball has no spin.

4. if you're off the table this is when you can counter loop it and get your grazing strokes going. so if you can't prevent them from hitting a fast dead ball at you, be prepared to counter it in some way.

5. I don't know your style, but I'm assuming you're a looper since you struggle with these balls. it's easier for you to attack with a loop than it is for them to attack their way. change the pace, spin, and location of your loops to mess them up. they can't get their angle perfect to flat hit every spin at every speed in every position. however you can loop almost anything.
 
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Maybe if you put more spin in your shots, it will be harder to hit? Usually, it is quit easy to hit a popped up short ball, so pay attention to your short game. Keep it low. Otherwise, there are ways to get away with long pushes: push deep with spin. Maybe you could explain a little more in detail?

Normally, to put it crudely, I do a smash with spin, which should be a winning shot, but they just whack it back like it's tennis and somehow get it on quite consistently. I've tried moving them around the table but that is a 50% chance of success. My highest successful shot is my serve and probably the third ball. What other tactics are useful apart from moving them about and just smashing it back at them?
 
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lyh

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lyh

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Putting more spin in that loop could be effective. Try a different pace? Because if your shot is slower then it is likely that you opponent's return is slower too. Use a slower spin loop to set up for the next power loop. And if you do encounter that kind of shot, backing away helps, it gives more space and time to loop again. That's one looping tactic, but you can stay close to the table and counter loop very quickly, a little like ZJK backhand... That's an idea...
 
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you have options.

1. don't give them a ball that's too high. they can't flat hit a ball fast if it's too low.

2. you can't passively block these close to the table so don't do this

3. if you're close to the table you need to be prepared to actively counter hit the ball. not loop the ball. grazing it is almost impossible if it's fast and you're close to the table and their ball has no spin.

4. if you're off the table this is when you can counter loop it and get your grazing strokes going. so if you can't prevent them from hitting a fast dead ball at you, be prepared to counter it in some way.

5. I don't know your style, but I'm assuming you're a looper since you struggle with these balls. it's easier for you to attack with a loop than it is for them to attack their way. change the pace, spin, and location of your loops to mess them up. they can't get their angle perfect to flat hit every spin at every speed in every position. however you can loop almost anything.

I play both as a looper and driver but I tend to loop more. I was kinda vague in my first post - I struggle to return flat hits when I'm close to the table. They normally flat hit it after the third shot when I'm over the table (unless they push long) so the ball goes straight past me. This may be because I'm not quick enough on my feet. Will driving it back work or can you just put your bat there with a slightly open angle?
 
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Putting more spin in that loop could be effective. Try a different pace? Because if your shot is slower then it is likely that you opponent's return is slower too. Use a slower spin loop to set up for the next power loop. And if you do encounter that kind of shot, backing away helps, it gives more space and time to loop again. That's one looping tactic, but you can stay close to the table and counter loop very quickly, a little like ZJK backhand... That's an idea...

I didn't think about moving away from the table, that's a good suggestion. With the ZJK backhand, could a BH with a lot of wrist and more of a solid contact work well, he uses quite a lot of wrist in his BH.
 
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I play both as a looper and driver but I tend to loop more. I was kinda vague in my first post - I struggle to return flat hits when I'm close to the table. They normally flat hit it after the third shot when I'm over the table (unless they push long) so the ball goes straight past me. This may be because I'm not quick enough on my feet. Will driving it back work or can you just put your bat there with a slightly open angle?

after your third ball don't hover over the table if they're hitting it back fast again. you should understand that if your third ball comes back then you can do a 5th ball from off the table. if you're saying you don't have time after your third ball your stroke is probably too big with too much follow through so you don't have time to get back into place.
 
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after your third ball don't hover over the table if they're hitting it back fast again. you should understand that if your third ball comes back then you can do a 5th ball from off the table. if you're saying you don't have time after your third ball your stroke is probably too big with too much follow through so you don't have time to get back into place.

I try to flick on every 3rd ball which means I'm very over the table so when they hit it back I'm off balance. I think that all my strokes need to be a lot more faster especially my flicks (pushes are fine). That's something to practise.
 
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I try to flick on every 3rd ball which means I'm very over the table so when they hit it back I'm off balance. I think that all my strokes need to be a lot more faster especially my flicks (pushes are fine). That's something to practise.
Why are you flicking to them? You're giving them a relatively fast ball without the massive spin that a loop has.

Why not set up your 5th ball with short game, setting up a shot that you can loop?
 
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Are they good basement players, or are they very solid short pips hitters? There's a huge difference.

They could just be better than you, by the way you described it.

I've just recently moved up to the A squad in my club and have not had much of a chance to get used to everyone's style of play which makes it quite difficult to beat people. So in answer to your question, these are very good players that can also do loops etc. and can change their play very quickly. Just need to get the upper hand on them because I think we are similar ability.
 
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Why are you flicking to them? You're giving them a relatively fast ball without the massive spin that a loop has.

Why not set up your 5th ball with short game, setting up a shot that you can loop?

It's my natural response to a short ball that goes to my backhand or the middle of the table. This is the first time I have played against flat hitters so it is quite hard to get out of the habit I am so used to.
 
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sakumi, by the way you're writing it's pretty clear you're a pretty new player still. not much experience with different styles.


the part of table tennis that makes someone better, is figuring out their style and learning how to deal with it appropriately. don't just do the same thing if it's not working. these flat hitters are better than you if they can deal with your ball and you can't deal with theirs. Don't stress it, learn what to do DIFFERENTLY.

and no, more power isn't the way to go ;)
 
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and if you're flicking every third ball, they know you're going to flick it.

you've told us very little about their game, just that they flat hit your opener back fast. so what do you think this means? well most likely they're a counter hitter and WANT you to attack first. so take your time and open up better so they can't counter it as easily.

at the very least just mix it up. chop the ball, deaden the ball, smash the ball when they pop it up. just don't let them know what you're doing every time.
 
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says what [IMG]
Sakumi, if they're legitimately good players who have a mean loop but choose to flat-hit, then they're simply better than you. Perhaps by quite a long shot. They're probably playing the flat-hit style to counter the loopers, and it seems to be working on you at least.

What is the difference between a loop shot and a flat hit? Weaknesses and strengths? Think of those and you'll figure something out.
 
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sakumi, by the way you're writing it's pretty clear you're a pretty new player still. not much experience with different styles.


the part of table tennis that makes someone better, is figuring out their style and learning how to deal with it appropriately. don't just do the same thing if it's not working. these flat hitters are better than you if they can deal with your ball and you can't deal with theirs. Don't stress it, learn what to do DIFFERENTLY.

and no, more power isn't the way to go ;)[/QUOTE

Yeh, I completely agree with what you said about learning different styles. My coaches strongly recommend and enforce the use of top spin and sometimes backspin so when a player like this turns up it is quite unusual. TBH, I think I just need to play in more competitions. I have been playing for 3 years so yes, I am pretty new. When I play these players I have a win percentage of about 70%, what is frustrating is that crucial games can be that 30% loss. My mentality also has a huge part to play in this as well.

This has been very helpful, thanks
 
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Sakumi, if they're legitimately good players who have a mean loop but choose to flat-hit, then they're simply better than you. Perhaps by quite a long shot. They're probably playing the flat-hit style to counter the loopers, and it seems to be working on you at least.

What is the difference between a loop shot and a flat hit? Weaknesses and strengths? Think of those and you'll figure something out.

What I mean is that they flat hit close to the table and loop further away. What I need is variation to be not predictable.
 
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If you have a 70% win rate, let me ask you this:

What is happening when you win against them? What are you doing and what are they doing?

I think we both try our best to beat each other but sometimes in a match they just outperform you because we are very similar abilities. Most of the time when I attack they won't return it as a flat hit but as a block. My problem is when they return it as a flat hit. The trend is when they flat hit they win easy points which can lead to a win in a set or a win for me when they block.
 
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