PDA

View Full Version : My backhand is beyond horrible



Syed Mansoor Qutab
09-15-2016, 07:43 PM
Hello! I hope any one of you might be able to help. My backhand has always given me a lot of problems. Playing my game on the backhand is super difficult, and that's a weakness most of the players at my gym and college exploit. he topspin is very weak, so I just want the ball to go away, and try to attack when the ball is on the forehand side. Chopping with the backhand is adequate, and i can count on it, but I want to be aggressive with my backhand.There was a two month period at the start of the year, where i tried backhand flicks, and topspin, but after a while, the game deteriorated again. I'm back to relying on my forehand, and chopping using the backhand.

Thank you.

NextLevel
09-15-2016, 08:03 PM
Abacadabra... hocus pocus... look, your backhand is fine now....

But wait, you have H3 Neo on your BH...

But wait, you expect us to be able to help you without seeing you play...

Archosaurus
09-15-2016, 08:18 PM
Video would be pretty great.

However, for what you've said, I'm just gonna ask this:

Are you pushing with the whole arm, or are you rotating your arm from the elbow?

If your backhand is lacking in power and spin, you're probably pushing into the ball as opposed to rotating into it, like a lever.

Syed Mansoor Qutab
09-15-2016, 08:59 PM
Abacadabra... hocus pocus... look, your backhand is fine now....

But wait, you have H3 Neo on your BH...

But wait, you expect us to be able to help you without seeing you play...

I started the H3 Neo on my backhand very recently. It has nothing to do with the backhand issues. It's actually made it slightly more bearable to play the backhand.
And about the video, sure, I'll try to post something here after a while, but i don't really make videos of me, playing.

Syed Mansoor Qutab
09-15-2016, 09:02 PM
Video would be pretty great.

However, for what you've said, I'm just gonna ask this:

Are you pushing with the whole arm, or are you rotating your arm from the elbow?

If your backhand is lacking in power and spin, you're probably pushing into the ball as opposed to rotating into it, like a lever.

I think i understand what you're saying. But i play the game up from the elbow. I still can't seem to get it right. Again, agree about the video thing, but i'll try to make one.

pgpg
09-15-2016, 09:17 PM
I started the H3 Neo on my backhand very recently. It has nothing to do with the backhand issues. It's actually made it slightly more bearable to play the backhand.
And about the video, sure, I'll try to post something here after a while, but i don't really make videos of me, playing.

Humor does not travel well over internet - NL's point is that it's impossible to diagnose your BH problem without actually seeing you play, thus request for video.

UpSideDownCarl
09-15-2016, 09:27 PM
Yeah. Based on the available information all that can be said is:

Do thousands of reps. Reps where you are looping or driving vs topspin. And even more important, reps where you are looping vs backspin.

Without seeing what you are doing well and what you are not, that is the only thing I can think of that would be useful. Do a lot of reps.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

Shuki
09-15-2016, 10:08 PM
Watch video on what the mechanics of the backhand stroke are supposed to look like. Now go in front of a mirror and imitate that backhand until it feels natural. This will take hundreds of reps and you will break a sweat. If you don't break a sweat you didn't do it enough.

Next try using it the way you practiced on the table with no opponent or ball. Break a sweat again but this time there's no mirror so you better have that muscle memory down.


Now try it against a ball with someone feeding your backhand. Try and keep it controlled but not to fast. Get practice on as many balls as possible, to do this your opponent has to be able to keep hitting it back so you have to relax and not try to put much into it.

Start by hitting it high over the net and gradually get it lower. Always make your stroke forward, going through the ball is a huge emphasis. Let the ball get to you move your Raquet forward, make contact and continue going forward.

This is all I can give you for advice with no video of your play


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Archosaurus
09-15-2016, 10:11 PM
Also, a personal tip from me, from when I was heavily fixing my backhand:

Start slow. Really slow. 30 - 40% power or less even. If you can't do it at that speed, you're not gonna be better at 70%. At least for me, it was compelling to just go faster on the backhand with more drive: it didn't result in good habits.

BeGo
09-16-2016, 02:45 PM
I started the H3 Neo on my backhand very recently. It has nothing to do with the backhand issues. It's actually made it slightly more bearable to play the backhand.
And about the video, sure, I'll try to post something here after a while, but i don't really make videos of me, playing.
What before neo? [emoji4]

Sent from my S5G using Tapatalk

OldschoolPenholder
09-16-2016, 03:28 PM
IMO, this is spot on! Many aspects of Life, not just table tennis, but piano, riding a bike, iceskating, etc - we just rush through it and trying to emulate what we saw and trying to do but our skill level is not quite there yet.

Work it slow before working it fast.

Good luck in your training Syed Mansoor Qutab (http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/member.php?31197-Syed-Mansoor-Qutab) !


Also, a personal tip from me, from when I was heavily fixing my backhand:

Start slow. Really slow. 30 - 40% power or less even. If you can't do it at that speed, you're not gonna be better at 70%. At least for me, it was compelling to just go faster on the backhand with more drive: it didn't result in good habits.

Syed Mansoor Qutab
09-16-2016, 08:28 PM
What before neo? [emoji4]

Sent from my S5G using Tapatalk

I used to have a Stiga. I don't know the exact rubber, but someone gave it to me, so i used it. I stopped after 5-6 months of it.

Syed Mansoor Qutab
09-16-2016, 08:31 PM
IMO, this is spot on! Many aspects of Life, not just table tennis, but piano, riding a bike, iceskating, etc - we just rush through it and trying to emulate what we saw and trying to do but our skill level is not quite there yet.

Work it slow before working it fast.

Good luck in your training Syed Mansoor Qutab (http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/member.php?31197-Syed-Mansoor-Qutab)!

This is true on so many levels. Yes, a beginner must start slow, but that is the point. I'm 21, and I've been playing since i was 12 or 13. I started in 4th grade. Again, my chopping is adequate. I'm not a complete retard with the backhand, but if you're playing a game since a decade, you must at least have a genuine control over offensive backhand play.

OldschoolPenholder
09-16-2016, 08:44 PM
Hmmm, you didn't mention that you have been playing for almost a decade. Not sure why you have not a decent BH by now. Perhaps you learned/trained it improperly?

You are only as strong as your weakest link.

My general suggestion is to work your BH more, to at least a decent/basic level. Watch some vids as suggested previously, work your stroke, use a mirror or video yourself and watch the playback.

Additional suggestions:

1) Definitely work the stroke slowly, no need to feel ashamed of doing it slow. As mentioned above, if you can't do it slowly, it will be hard to do it fast. My non-TT instructor teaches: "Slow down to the speed of what you don't know." Speed will come in time, but be sure stroke/form is correct before starting to speed it up to game/match-speed.

2) Pick a player with a good BH (alternatively, pick your favorite player, that is if s/he has a good BH)... watch their BH's... visualize yourself as that player... go through the motions of the BH as if you were that player.

3) Visualize yourself executing the BH perfectly over and over.

4) Don't get frustrated if you can't execute the BH to your sastisfaction yet, it will take time as you groove your stroke (greasing the groove) ... your Ego is your worst Enemy! Do not think after a decade, i should have a good BH. Think I can improve on my BH.

May sound like a lot of mumbo jumbo, but these tips have helped me in my TT as well as other training.

Truly HTH... good luck in your Training!

NextLevel
09-16-2016, 09:01 PM
This is true on so many levels. Yes, a beginner must start slow, but that is the point. I'm 21, and I've been playing since i was 12 or 13. I started in 4th grade. Again, my chopping is adequate. I'm not a complete retard with the backhand, but if you're playing a game since a decade, you must at least have a genuine control over offensive backhand play.


How long you have been playing is largely irrelevant to the main point. We don't know how good a player you are, but there are world champions who have gone back to the basics to develop their strokes when they knew it was their main weakness.

I for example spent a long time working on my forehand last year when I wanted to fix some of the issues with it. Here is a video of me looping (I was already a competent club player when I started doing this - watch how slowly I go). EVen going slowly, it is about 5 mins in I start getting the form closer to what I wanted it to look like.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGaENX_--bY

UpSideDownCarl
09-16-2016, 09:16 PM
I used to have a Stiga. I don't know the exact rubber, but someone gave it to me, so i used it. I stopped after 5-6 months of it.

Well, another issue for you guys to think about asied from the fact that we need to see video is that he went from one TERRIBLE BH rubber another. [emoji2]

I don't even need to know what Stiga rubber. It was bad to start. And after using it for 5-6 months it was worse. Was it new or USED when it was given to you?

A thing you should know, if your BH is not so good, going out of your way to use the worst possible rubbers for your BH and ones that are linear opposite, WILL NOT HELP YOUR BH IMPROVE.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

Syed Mansoor Qutab
09-16-2016, 09:19 PM
Hmmm, you didn't mention that you have been playing for almost a decade. Not sure why you have not a decent BH by now. Perhaps you learned/trained it improperly?

You are only as strong as your weakest link.

My general suggestion is to work your BH more, to at least a decent/basic level. Watch some vids as suggested previously, work your stroke, use a mirror or video yourself and watch the playback.

Additional suggestions:

1) Definitely work the stroke slowly, no need to feel ashamed of doing it slow. As mentioned above, if you can't do it slowly, it will be hard to do it fast. My non-TT instructor teaches: "Slow down to the speed of what you don't know." Speed will come in time, but be sure stroke/form is correct before starting to speed it up to game/match-speed.

2) Pick a player with a good BH (alternatively, pick your favorite player, that is if s/he has a good BH)... watch their BH's... visualize yourself as that player... go through the motions of the BH as if you were that player.

3) Visualize yourself executing the BH perfectly over and over.

4) Don't get frustrated if you can't execute the BH to your sastisfaction yet, it will take time as you groove your stroke (greasing the groove) ... your Ego is your worst Enemy! Do not think after a decade, i should have a good BH. Think I can improve on my BH.

May sound like a lot of mumbo jumbo, but these tips have helped me in my TT as well as other training.

Truly HTH... good luck in your Training!
Doesn't sound mumbo jumbo to me. I think I'll try what you said. Tuesday is when I restart training again. That's when I will work on it. But yeah, a decade. If you see my forehand, the decade long practice shows itself. I have control and power over every shot. I struggle with the backhand a lot though.

Sent from my LTE3 using Tapatalk

Syed Mansoor Qutab
09-16-2016, 09:25 PM
Well, another issue for you guys to think about asied from the fact that we need to see video is that he went from one TERRIBLE BH rubber another. [emoji2]

I don't even need to know what Stiga rubber. It was bad to start. And after using it for 5-6 months it was worse. Was it new or USED when it was given to you?

A thing you should know, if your BH is not so good, going out of your way to use the worst possible rubbers for your BH and ones that are linear opposite, WILL NOT HELP YOUR BH IMPROVE.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus
It was a new rubber. And is H3 NEO that bad on the backhand?

Sent from my LTE3 using Tapatalk

BeGo
09-17-2016, 12:09 AM
It was a new rubber. And is H3 NEO that bad on the backhand?

Sent from my LTE3 using Tapatalk
H3 is one of the best rubber for looping and chopping, super spinny, quite fast, hard sponged that never bottom out, etc, but,

also one of the worst rubber for blocking and driving, too susceptible to opponent spin.

If you can consistently loop or chop as opposed to block, push, and drive, on bh, it will be a great weapon.

the exact opposite is Flextra, not susceptible to opponent spin, but pale in comparison in spin and speed to H3. It perfect for blocking and driving game.

(assuming no need for pips, off course)

I am slow handed, so using thinner sponged Flextra style rubber makes my bh chop more manageable. I use Pro XP in 1.5 mm for the same reason, good enough for looping, but quite safe for chopping. I can opt to H3, but my oppolent shall outspin me to submission in loop vs chop game. [emoji6]



Sent from my T1X Plus using Tapatalk

UpSideDownCarl
09-17-2016, 12:51 AM
If your BH is really REALLY GOOD, H3 is fine. But if you do not have really big impact on BH it is really not good for BH.

It does sound like it is better than the Stiga rubber for your BH. But you need to have a powerful BIG stroke to get what H3 does best from it.

I would recommend you use a rubber that is good for developing your BH if you want to work on it:

Xiom Vega Pro or Vega Europe
Tibhar Aurus Soft
Tibhar Evolution FX-P
Butterfly Tenergy O5fx

Or you could decide that you just want to use pips for BH and change your style.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

UpSideDownCarl
09-17-2016, 12:55 AM
BTW: over the last few years Ma Long has been using H3 on BH for plastic ball. HOWEVER, it is not a regular H3. It has a special softer sponge that has catapult effect like a Euro rubber. You can't actually get that rubber on the market.

And most top pros use some version of Tenergy for BH. Most.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

Der_Echte
09-17-2016, 04:38 AM
If your BH is really REALLY GOOD, H3 is fine. But if you do not have really big impact on BH it is really not good for BH.

It does sound like it is better than the Stiga rubber for your BH. But you need to have a powerful BIG stroke to get what H3 does best from it.

I would recommend you use a rubber that is good for developing your BH if you want to work on it:

Xiom Vega Pro or Vega Europe
Tibhar Aurus Soft
Tibhar Evolution FX-P
Butterfly Tenergy O5fx

Or you could decide that you just want to use pips for BH and change your style.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

Hahahaha,

Carl saw me use a Der_Echte Special 896 combo with a 3rd old sheet of Sigma Euro and a 3 yr old sheet of H3 NEO. Until I showed him the bat, he must have been thinking it was some hotshot pro version of Tenergy that would be a sure-fire Bat-Sign to have the Goon Squad sent out against us for illegal use of Pro Version of Tenergy.

Even more intruiging was I weighted the handles, and all my talk about Der_Echte Special while I lived in Korea made Carl order a few 896 from Colestt.com and find out for himself what all the fuss was. He knew instantly after hitting with my "Doctored" 896s what was up immediately. (positive points)

Shuki
09-17-2016, 04:45 AM
Hahahaha,

Carl saw me use a Der_Echte Special 896 combo with a 3rd old sheet of Sigma Euro and a 3 yr old sheet of H3 NEO. Until I showed him the bat, he must have been thinking it was some hotshot pro version of Tenergy that would be a sure-fire Bat-Sign to have the Goon Squad sent out against us for illegal use of Pro Version of Tenergy.

Even more intruiging was I weighted the handles, and all my talk about Der_Echte Special while I lived in Korea made Carl order a few 896 from Colestt.com and find out for himself what all the fuss was. He knew instantly after hitting with my "Doctored" 896s what was up immediately. (positive points)

You realize new forum members have no idea what you're talking about most the time right? I learn a ton from your posts now and they're also super entertaining. When I first joined the forum I had to wait for Carl to dumb down your posts for me. So many inside jokes that I couldn't pick and pull the valuable information from the post.

I take it for granted now because I read your post and don't even realize that it wouldn't make sense from an outside perspective


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Syed Mansoor Qutab
09-17-2016, 04:48 AM
If your BH is really REALLY GOOD, H3 is fine. But if you do not have really big impact on BH it is really not good for BH.

It does sound like it is better than the Stiga rubber for your BH. But you need to have a powerful BIG stroke to get what H3 does best from it.

I would recommend you use a rubber that is good for developing your BH if you want to work on it:

Xiom Vega Pro or Vega Europe
Tibhar Aurus Soft
Tibhar Evolution FX-P
Butterfly Tenergy O5fx

Or you could decide that you just want to use pips for BH and change your style.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus
You talk about powerful big stroke. That is one thing I do have. The only thing that is a problem is how to control all that power. When I do try offensive gameplay I sometimes manage one or two good shots, but they are inconsistent. Sometimes, (and sometimes means almost 80% of the time) they go out. I'm never out of power. But my backhand hits the ball aggressively into the net, or off the table. I can hit a ball standing far from the table and it will still go off table from the other side. It doesn't go on the other player's court.

Sent from my LTE3 using Tapatalk

Shuki
09-17-2016, 04:57 AM
You talk about powerful big stroke. That is one thing I do have. The only thing that is a problem is how to control all that power. When I do try offensive gameplay I sometimes manage one or two good shots, but they are inconsistent. Sometimes, (and sometimes means almost 80% of the time) they go out. I'm never out of power. But my backhand hits the ball aggressively into the net, or off the table. I can hit a ball standing far from the table and it will still go off table from the other side. It doesn't go on the other player's court.

Sent from my LTE3 using Tapatalk

If you have no control on the stroke then you don't have the stroke. Clearly the problem is that your stroke is too big you just told us. Shorten your stroke.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Syed Mansoor Qutab
09-17-2016, 05:39 AM
If you have no control on the stroke then you don't have the stroke. Clearly the problem is that your stroke is too big you just told us. Shorten your stroke.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's my concern. What do I do? Reps? Because telling myself that my power is too much, and using less power brings it to a point where the shot might not even reach the other person's court. To put it in simpler words, the shot is either too big, or too small. And yes, clearly, I have no stroke. You're very right about that.

Sent from my LTE3 using Tapatalk

Shuki
09-17-2016, 05:58 AM
That's my concern. What do I do? Reps? Because telling myself that my power is too much, and using less power brings it to a point where the shot might not even reach the other person's court. To put it in simpler words, the shot is either too big, or too small. And yes, clearly, I have no stroke. You're very right about that.

Sent from my LTE3 using Tapatalk

shorten the stroke. if it goes into the net, your paddle is too closed for the speed that you're going through the ball and the spin that is on their ball. if something isn't working keep changing it until it works. I can't teach you how to adapt to everyones spin. your angle will be different for every ball.

UpSideDownCarl
09-17-2016, 02:45 PM
Actually, what you need to do is find a robot so you don't torture anyone else and do thousands and thousands of reps; like a few hundred thousand.

A big stroke that lands out is clearly not a good big stroke. Something is going wrong and based on that, YOU STILL DON'T WANT to use a BH rubber that could only be used by someone EXTREMELY SKILLED who also has a very powerful BH.

And the fact that NOBODY in the top 1,000 in the world use H3 with any of the standard hard sponges FOR BH shows that, even when a player is skilled enough to use a rubber like H3 on BH, THEY DON'T.

Get something that helps you improve your BH. Not something that someone arbitrarily gave you without thought for whether it would be a good rubber for what you actually need.

And the idea that you say you are playing for 10 years, that you take giant swings with your BH and that it goes on LESS THAN 80% of the time makes me think, the only solution for getting to the bottom of what is going on would be VIDEO FOOTAGE.

Something in the information is not adding up.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

songdavid98
09-17-2016, 02:50 PM
If you have been playing for a decade and still can't control your stroke, then there is clearly a problem. At the very least, you admitted that you have a problem there, so kudos.

*******************

You know what the backhand is supposed to look like right? Have you ever tried to copy the motion in front of a mirror? Seeing what you're doing is very helpful for self diagnosis, assuming you can see what is wrong. A video is even better, because it let's other people see what is wrong.


I think it's about time you give us a video. By the way, when you make the video, please let us see you doing various other shots and points so that we could accurately see what level you are at. Until then, we can't really give you solid advice.


***********
**************


You talk about powerful big stroke. That is one thing I do have. The only thing that is a problem is how to control all that power. When I do try offensive gameplay I sometimes manage one or two good shots, but they are inconsistent. Sometimes, (and sometimes means almost 80% of the time) they go out. I'm never out of power. But my backhand hits the ball aggressively into the net, or off the table. I can hit a ball standing far from the table and it will still go off table from the other side. It doesn't go on the other player's court.

Sent from my LTE3 using Tapatalk

You mentioned that your bigshots are never well controlled. Out of curiosity, are you doing fine with driving the ball with the backhand?

If not, then clearly you need forget your pride and relearn the basics. Your 10 years sounds like my 2 years.

If driving the ball is easy for you and backhand looping is a problem, then I have a feeling that you aren't spinning the ball. Either that, or you aren't spinning the ball forward.

***********
Honestly, your problem sounds like a problem that a tennis player trying to play table tennis would have. I can easily imagine a tennis player trying to make big backhand shots that don't go anywhere on the table.

UpSideDownCarl
09-17-2016, 02:52 PM
Hahahaha,

Carl saw me use a Der_Echte Special 896 combo with a 3rd old sheet of Sigma Euro and a 3 yr old sheet of H3 NEO. Until I showed him the bat, he must have been thinking it was some hotshot pro version of Tenergy that would be a sure-fire Bat-Sign to have the Goon Squad sent out against us for illegal use of Pro Version of Tenergy.

Even more intruiging was I weighted the handles, and all my talk about Der_Echte Special while I lived in Korea made Carl order a few 896 from Colestt.com and find out for himself what all the fuss was. He knew instantly after hitting with my "Doctored" 896s what was up immediately. (positive points)

As far as Der_Echte's post, hahahaha. Sometimes I'm not sure if I'm coherent either. But a TT adventure with Der_Echte is worth a thousand crazy stories.

It is sufficient to say that Der_ can hit a powerful, spinny backhand using a banana peel as a rubber. And some of the rubbers he uses may have less grab than a banana peel.

But then their is also the boost factor and that Der_Echte has genuine bear phat in his sweat and always cleans his rubbers with the profusion of sweat from off of his jersey which boosts the topsheet and extends the life of the rubber. We are in the process of bottling that mixture. The big wigs at CNT have tested the boost effect and found it far superior to the banned Haifu Oil that they currently use for boosting their rubbers.

But the beast mod handles, well, those make all his blades feel like pro model blades that can't be bought commercially. With all these things going for him, it's no wonder why the goon squad has chased us so often over the years.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

Der_Echte
09-17-2016, 03:52 PM
The weighted handles help immensely, but a strong bh shot close to the table is all about being in position, impacting the ball in zone, and using a very short whip to transfer and quickly magnify kinetic energy.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk