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Jirrex
10-24-2016, 02:10 PM
Hello fellow TTD'ers,

I would like to share my experiences so far with Copydex glue.

A short time ago I bought a Yasaka Sweden Extra blade with Yasaka Rakza 7 soft rubbers. That's gonna be my second blade ever, I started to play table tennis not that long ago. Since I expect to be playing many more years, building my own racket is something I'd like to learn. I ordered a bottle of Copydex, a nice amount of glue that leaves some room for experimenting. Since I don't have any experience with gluing rubbers yet, it seemed convenient to me to be able to easily remove the rubbers and peel off the glue in case of a failed glue job.

When it comes to Copydex - and gluing in general - there's a lot of different opinions. I gathered some information but realized I really had to do some experiments myself. The glue itself isn't too thick, but it seems to dry quite a bit faster than the dedicated table tennis glues. Diluting the glue would increase the drying time, so at first I diluted a little bit of glue in a 4 (glue) :1 (distilled water) ratio. The glue became pretty watery and after shaking the jar where I've diluted the glue in, pretty large bubbles appeared. I tried the glue on some pieces of plywood and the bond was pretty strong. Also, the increased drying time because of diluting the glue would give you enough time to apply an even layer of glue on the blade and rubbers. Anyway, I think in this ratio the glue is just too watery.

After that I made a small batch of the glue in a 10:1 ratio. Of course the glue became less runny than before, but after shaking again some (small) bubbles were formed on the surface. Again tested the glue on some plywood, strong bond again but it was a bit easier to peel off the glue after seperating the two pieces of plywood I've glued together. I found out some other waterbased glues also showed some bubbles after shaking the bottle. In this ratio I liked the glue more, so I decided to use it to glue the rubbers. Afterwards I also made a bit of glue in an 8:1 ratio, but that didn't seem to differ that much.

Then the gluing itself. I decided to apply 3 layers on the rubber and 2 layers on the blade. I used a small teaspoon to measure the amount of glue I applied each time. The first layer on the sponge took 3 teaspoons. In a 10:1 ratio you have plenty of time to apply the glue, no need to hurry because of drying too fast. The second and third layer took 2 teaspoons, I guess that's because on the first layer more glue got absorbed by the sponge. It was easy to spread the glue to get a nice, even layer.

Then the blade, that caused some troubles at the beginning. The first layer on the blade wasn't a problem, but the second layer caused some issues. I have a Yasaka Sweden Extra blade and on the side with the print on it, the glue started to clump at the letters 'EXTRA', despite the glue looking to be dried. I had to start over several times, but the last time I just waited longer to be sure. I ended up waiting like an hour before I applied the second layer, and that did the trick. I'm not entirely sure what exactly caused this, since only at 'EXTRA' it started to clump. At the last attempt, I also spreaded the glue in another direction (vertical), I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it. For your information, my blade is sealed with a very thin layer of Polyurethane. I don't expect the same issue with the other side since there's no print on it.

Because it took a while before I got the second layer applied to the blade, the rubber was resting for a while which caused the rubber to curl a bit. Not sure if this happens with other glues as well. Eventually I glued the rubber to the blade and it looked ok (I think). Unfortunately it isn't perfect. I haven't cut the rubber yet because I'm still considering to redo it. When it comes to things like this, minor flaws can annoy me. I used a roller for the rubber. On several video's I see people first completely laying down the rubber on the blade and then start to use the roller. I applied some pressure with the roller while laying down the rubber, I'm not sure which method has your preferences.

I think if the rubber could be put on the blade before it started to curl, it would have been better. Now I put some books on it, hopefully it can fix things a bit. I'll add a picture because I'm curious to your opinions.

I have noticed that it's better to put a little but too much glue on the blade/rubber than just not enough glue. If the layer is too thin and you keep continuing to spread the glue with a sponge, the glue starts to clump. If enough or a little bit too much glue, then you have time enough to spread it. If there's a bit too much glue on it, just use the other side of the sponge you use to apply the glue and the residue will be absorbed by it.

As you could read, I had to start over again several times. Removing the old glue is really easy. It can be peeled off in one piece. So in a 10:1 ratio, the glue isn't too watery to peel off at once.

Here's a picture of the glue job. I wonder if you would redo it if this was your result.

11135

I know this is a long read, but hopefully some information is useful to you. Any tips whatsoever are more than welcome.

massa
10-24-2016, 02:28 PM
I only use one layer in the sponge and the other on the blade.
No dilution at all.
The only rubbers that I've seen curling (to the inside) are the Yasaka ones

Jirrex
10-24-2016, 02:40 PM
I only use one layer in the sponge and the other on the blade.
No dilution at all.
The only rubbers that I've seen curling (to the inside) are the Yasaka ones

One layer on the sponge and one on the blade, that gives you a perfectly flat result?

massa
10-24-2016, 02:44 PM
Yep, no problem at all. I even do yhis with boosted rubbers. Sometimes I put 3 books over the blade for a couple of hours but the rubber never leaves the blade

massa
10-24-2016, 02:45 PM
Now I'm using a Rising Drangon. It was curled to the inside. I put a layer of falco and it flatten the rubber

Jirrex
10-24-2016, 03:38 PM
Is there another way to flatten the rubber if I should decide to reglue it?

massa
10-24-2016, 05:52 PM
With other brands there's no problem. With Yasaka (at least Rakza7 and Rising Dragon) I don't know because if they are curled the glue will go to the middle of the rubber

Baal
10-24-2016, 06:55 PM
Wturber at mytt also once recommended adding a trace amount of ammonia to Tearmender to slow the drying. Some TT glues clearly do that since I can smell the ammonia. Just another variable.

From the photo you posted, it seemed like an excellent glue job. Better than I ever got with Tearmender, but I wouldn't have the patience for your procedure.

Jirrex
10-24-2016, 08:20 PM
Thank you Baal, that's good to hear.

You also just helped me reminding that the glue I've used, has been diluted with ammonia solution (which is an ammonia solution in water). I forgot to mention that. I think it was you that wrote that ammonia also prevents the glue from clumping, so diluting the glue with ammonia solution seemed a good idea to me.

Kontra
10-25-2016, 07:19 PM
I've used similar amount of non diluted Copyydex, 1 teaspoon for 1 layer on rubber and 1 teaspoon for 1 layer on blade, left it for cca 15 min and glued them together. Left the blade under few heavy books for 2-3 hours and that was it.

Jirrex
10-25-2016, 09:34 PM
I've used similar amount of non diluted Copyydex, 1 teaspoon for 1 layer on rubber and 1 teaspoon for 1 layer on blade, left it for cca 15 min and glued them together. Left the blade under few heavy books for 2-3 hours and that was it.

Does that method lead to a perfect glue job?

passifid
10-25-2016, 10:01 PM
Does that method lead to a perfect glue job?
depends on the blade i eyeball the amount and put more on the rubber than blade, also somtimes 2 layers, i get a perfect glue job imho on my TBS but on my sealed blades they often peel at the edges VERY easily.

Jirrex
10-25-2016, 10:10 PM
depends on the blade i eyeball the amount and put more on the rubber than blade, also somtimes 2 layers, i get a perfect glue job imho on my TBS but on my sealed blades they often peel at the edges VERY easily.

That's something to keep in mind, saves some time and when the result is just as good, why not. Although I don't mind to use a time consuming method (if that leads to better results), in relation to the amount of hours you play with the rubbers it still is absolutely nothing.

Right now the bond seems to be more than strong enough on the edges, hopefully it will stay that way. What do you use to seal your blades? I use a very thin layer of thinned Polyurethane.

passifid
10-25-2016, 10:18 PM
That's something to keep in mind, saves some time and when the result is just as good, why not. Although I don't mind to use a time consuming method (if that leads to better results), in relation to the amount of hours you play with the rubbers it still is absolutely nothing.

Right now the bond seems to be more than strong enough on the edges, hopefully it will stay that way. What do you use to seal your blades? I use a very thin layer of thinned Polyurethane.
similar sealant but i think i need to roughen it slightly? i didn't seal most blades i own tbs isnt sealed as far as im aware (i got second hand from myTT) but copydex is a relatively weak glue so im not too worried

Jirrex
10-25-2016, 10:25 PM
similar sealant but i think i need to roughen it slightly? i didn't seal most blades i own tbs isnt sealed as far as im aware (i got second hand from myTT) but copydex is a relatively weak glue so im not too worried

I didn't sand anything, although when I have to glue other things, I sand the parts. I don't have any experience with removing rubbers, so I can't tell you what the chances are of damaging the blade with Copydex and other waterbased glues.

Kontra
10-26-2016, 04:27 PM
I've forgot to mention that I did just a little bit of blade sanding and as for perfection; well, there is always room for improvement :) Overall, it looks nice.

Jirrex
10-26-2016, 11:40 PM
Although the bond seemed strong enough the first few days, now I experienced the same as passifid. Near the edges the rubber came loose. I guess that means regluing. I think it would be a good idea to sand the surface a little bit with a piece of very fine sandpaper. What grit sandpaper do you use for that?

Since the rubber curled, I was wondering if there's a way to flatten it without applying booster.

PierreAd
10-28-2016, 08:45 AM
Wow that's pretty exhaustive :) Personnally, I use one layer of copydex on the rubber and one on the blade, let them dry, and then apply. Gives a fairly decent result, it's important not to put too much glue though. I always add a bit of water inside the glue to make it easier to apply, but not that much, I have no idea of the water/glue ratio.

By the way, is your copydex coming with the "new formula" on the label ? I found this one far better (much easier to remove the glue from the rubber afterwards).

Jirrex
10-28-2016, 01:06 PM
By the way, is your copydex coming with the "new formula" on the label ? I found this one far better (much easier to remove the glue from the rubber afterwards).

On my bottle it doesn't say 'new formula'. I have the 250ml square bottle.

PierreAd
10-28-2016, 01:30 PM
On my bottle it doesn't say 'new formula'. I have the 250ml square bottle.

Well I just checked and the exact label is "new improved formulation". I found this one to be much easier to peel off the rubber afterwards. Otherwise, both formulations work fine but I tend to prefer the "new improved formulation" ones now.

Jirrex
10-28-2016, 01:41 PM
Well I just checked and the exact label is "new improved formulation". I found this one to be much easier to peel off the rubber afterwards. Otherwise, both formulations work fine but I tend to prefer the "new improved formulation" ones now.

It doesn't say anything like that on my bottle. When searching for imagines on the internet, I can only find the 50ml tubes and the 125ml square bottles with 'new improved formulation' on them. You happen to have one of those?

PierreAd
10-28-2016, 01:47 PM
It doesn't say anything like that on my bottle. When searching for imagines on the internet, I can only find the 50ml tubes and the 125ml square bottles with 'new improved formulation' on them. You happen to have one of those?

Yes you're right, mine's a 125ml. My previous bottle was a 250ml (I suppose same as yours) and when I switched between it and another 125ml "new formulation" bottle, difference was really noticeable (tested with both an old 125ml "new formulation" bottle and a one I had just bought).

Anyway, as long as what you have works for you, that's the most important :)

igorponger
02-09-2019, 03:55 PM
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/uploads/14298/copydex_safety_sheet_2007.jpg

Copydex Latex Water Glue. New formulation available since 2006.
Improved formula with Methanol 0.1% added to the adhesive composition.

Do avoid massive inhalation of the Copydex fumes when doing glue works.

yoass
02-09-2019, 04:06 PM
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/uploads/14298/copydex_safety_sheet_2007.jpg

Copydex Latex Glue. New Formulation available since 2006.
Improved glue formula with Methanole 0.1% added.

Do avoid massive inhalation of the Copydex fumes in doing glue works.

And be very cautious when inhaling in an environment serving drinks of the alkyholish persuasion too. Even nonalcolholic beer and fresh fruit juice might exceed that methanol percentage, not to mention your average beers, wines, cocktails and licquors.