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sanavasaraja
12-06-2016, 07:49 PM
MX-S vs. H3N – two different rubbers
From what I understand, the H3N is a notch harder, about the same weight. Non-tacky vs. quite tacky, although less tacky than the original H3. Quite fast vs. a more slowish offensive rubber. Moderate catapult vs. no catapult – possible lack of power away from the table: many advice for boosting it; I'm not a fan of boosting. Right now with my MX-S I do have more than enough speed.
I am playing the MX-S (and I like it very much) and I have read up on the properties of the H3N, or chinese style rubbers for that matter. Currently I'm considering to give the infamous H3N a go. Why, you ask, if I am happy with my current one? Well, just because! I'm curious! :)


My forehand strokes are centered around very fast brushing, driving only if I have to. I open backspin early with a soft spinny topspin which engages the MX-S' topsheet nicely. I win points not necessarily by forcing the ball on the other side the pure MX-P speed way but by very flat over-the-net, fast armpull (like I'd try to slap the statue of liberty. Screw you, shoulder tendons, never liked you anyway!), pervertedly spinny, impossible to (aggressively) block topspins. The MX-S works great in this regard. The spin! Wow!


TL;DR I don't think I require too much info on the material itself, but I do would love to know how one would generally need to adjust their strokes and style when switching from MX-S to H3N. Is the playstyle somewhat comparable? Can any of you beautiful people provide me with some insight? :)
On a sidenote, the Yasaka Rising Dragon, albeit softer, also seems really interesting to me!


Snowy greetings!

CroneOne
12-06-2016, 08:23 PM
I found that I didn't need to change my stroke fundamentals. It's just that H3 or H3n doesn't have that spring effect that tensors do. Just bounce a ball on a bat with H3 vs Tenergy and you can see. On H3, if you want speed on the ball your weight has to come more forward through the stroke whereas the spring on tensors gives you a lot of that speed on a shot for free.
The benefit is that when you get used to it, the rubber is more predictable. You can play really short shots and serve returns confidently because the ball doesn't bounce off the rubber as much. You can FH loop aggressively without the ball going long. Of course, this can all be done with tensors but I found that I couldn't calibrate for it as easy as H3. I got sucked in to EJ-ing for the fastest, spinniest tensor but couldn't control my FH side.

dangerhow
12-06-2016, 11:06 PM
The first time I bought H3Neo the tackiness was there. I mean i even can flipped my bat with the ball without dropping it for about 5 seconds.
The second time I bought H3Neo, I didn't even feel the tackiness of the rubber. When I flipped the bat, the ball didn't last longer than 1 seconds
The third time I bought HNeo, I also didn't feel he tackiness of the rubber. I can't flip my bat with the ball anymore.

H3N supposed to be a good quality rubber, but I think they reduce the tackiness overtime and I never used them anymore. For me non-tacky DHS H3Neo is the same as a slower version of MX-P with harder sponge.

If you get a good quality of H3Neo you should be able to play to your full extent. They are great for looping, but you need to used your hip more and you should need more physical effort to generate more speed on the ball. For me if you have a lot physical training you will be able to maximize the potential of H3Neo

Suga D
12-06-2016, 11:19 PM
On a sidenote, the Yasaka Rising Dragon, albeit softer, also seems really interesting to me!


Snowy greetings!

I still have a 3 months used Rising Dragon and a brand new uncut unopened Rising Dragon lying around.
In case of interest pm me.



...Can any of you beautiful people provide me with some insight? :)


Well i can't tell anything about the MX-S since i haven't tried it yet.
But I used to play with Donic Bluefire M2 before and then switched to BTY Spin Art. I started loving the slight tack.
Then after a while i was curious about H3 and tried the Nittaku H3 since i've heard good things about their quality control.
At first i thought it was the shittiest rubber i've ever used.....but then it broke in and i instantly fell in love with it. So much dwell, so much control. But then after a while somebody provided me a used H3N National orange sponge from Singapurian National Team. I thought it was the sweetest thing i've ever tried.... until i had a chance to hit with a H3N Bluesponge. Never want to Switch again since then.

Oh, and one more thing: this rubber has been made to be boosted. Period!
[And then this rubber can be quite bouncy.]
[Emoji13]

sanavasaraja
12-07-2016, 06:07 PM
Thank you all for your answers! This has already been helping me a great deal! ;)



I still have a 3 months used Rising Dragon and a brand new uncut unopened Rising Dragon lying around.
In case of interest pm me.

Could you comment on how the Rising Dragon plays as a bridge between chinese and tensor rubbers? Is it the "best of both worlds" and/or the "good at (almost) everything, best at nothing" type?
I know it's softer, less tack but still spinny, minor catapult(?) but still quite linear. But how does it play exactly as opposed to H3N? The only person I know that plays with it is swedish Jennifer Jonsson

Ahmad Arnous
12-08-2016, 02:36 PM
Hurricane 3 national version is better than mx-s
If we talk about (((national blue sponge onllly )))) , ,

Shuki
12-08-2016, 05:06 PM
mx-s felt great to start. after a couple weeks it felt dead. and it didn't make up for the lack of tack that h3 would have. Both require being in place for the stroke to work well. mx-s in my opinion would be an in between of an old rubber like mark V and a chinese rubber mixed together.

NextLevel
12-08-2016, 06:41 PM
Tensor non-linearity is a huge problem for me - before I used to try to like it, but I just could never full adjust. The closest I got was probably Andro Hexer for my style but I still had issues. At the risk of being a pusher, I would like people to try the Airoc Astro, the TSP Regalis Blue or the Nexy Karis M+. Would like to hear opinions as I think these rubbers might take the control and spin problem in a different direction.

Suga D
12-08-2016, 08:04 PM
Thank you all for your answers! This has already been helping me a great deal! ;)




Could you comment on how the Rising Dragon plays as a bridge between chinese and tensor rubbers? Is it the "best of both worlds" and/or the "good at (almost) everything, best at nothing" type?
I know it's softer, less tack but still spinny, minor catapult(?) but still quite linear. But how does it play exactly as opposed to H3N? The only person I know that plays with it is swedish Jennifer Jonsson

Thanks a lot for reminding me of writing a review on the Rising Dragon.
I've just finished it and you can find it here:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/equipment/rubbers/11871-rising-dragon

Hope you can find it helpful.

Actually I've been missing the tack a bit, but that's just my personal taste. But i would place it closer to rubbers like SpinArt (but it still is different, especially the throw angle) than to H3Neo.

James Livesey
12-12-2016, 02:41 PM
If you don't feel like boosting, there's haifu blue whale national and sanwei target national. Both are factory tuned. Also, there's big dipper and stiga genesis plus a few others for hybrid European Chinese rubber.

sanavasaraja
12-12-2016, 09:26 PM
Thank you so much, all of you guys! This has been a great help to me!
Right now it looks like I will have at least at some point - when my old rubber wears out a little - a rendez-vous with Mr. Falco and the Hurricane. It's just too popular/famous and cheap to not try out!


If you don't feel like boosting, there's haifu blue whale national and sanwei target national. Both are factory tuned. Also, there's big dipper and stiga genesis plus a few others for hybrid European Chinese rubber.
These are awesome suggestions, thanks a lot! I wasn't aware of the Haifu and Sanwei!
I noticed you play the Skyline Neo - what's the reason for opting for this rubber instead of the H3N? From what I could read it's a little bit softer and lighter, right? How does it behave in play?
I'm just too curious, my apologies ;);)

James Livesey
12-16-2016, 01:02 PM
Thank you so much, all of you guys! This has been a great help to me!
Right now it looks like I will have at least at some point - when my old rubber wears out a little - a rendez-vous with Mr. Falco and the Hurricane. It's just too popular/famous and cheap to not try out!


These are awesome suggestions, thanks a lot! I wasn't aware of the Haifu and Sanwei!
I noticed you play the Skyline Neo - what's the reason for opting for this rubber instead of the H3N? From what I could read it's a little bit softer and lighter, right? How does it behave in play?
I'm just too curious, my apologies ;);) Well I'm actually going to give Target National a try. It is lighter weight, max sponge and tuned. But I liked H2N and SL2N because they're slower unboosted. Skyline weighs the same, so is still very heavy, and has the same sponge. the topsheet seems a tad bit softer, slower and has a little more control. The spin i've heard is better, but for me it was much better as I've made huge adjustments to my FH playing with this, so I can't really comment. I prefer the feel of skyline but not by much. Skyline 2 is very similar to H3 and Skyline 3 is similar to H2 apparently, with SL2 and H3 having close pimples and SL3 and H2 having more spaced out pimples. the former are more spinny, the latter are faster. In the future I'm sure I'll switch to H3N as you can easily acquire provincial versions. you can use this site to look up rubber mass: http://tabletennis-reviews.com/reference/rubber-sheet-mass-size-database/ if it matters to you. it certainly does for me! There's certainly fewer options when it comes to Chinese Tackies, but I like how this cuts down on EJ, and the rubbers are cheaper!!

sanavasaraja
04-27-2017, 09:48 PM
Hey there, after a lot of time has passed, I thought I might give an update on what has happened. I have now chosen the H3N and I am very happy.

My intial aversion to boosting has subsided: although I still think that I don't wanna do anything illegal, where I play hardly anyone even knows what boosting is. Although it is quite tedious to have to apply something on a rubber before you can play with it (I put on 3 layers of Falco Tempo Long and it took 9-10 days for it to be able to be put on the blade!), it can also be quite cool to tinker with your equipment and find out your own recipe of how to boost (and of course how to glue). Tbh even before boosting I found the H3N to be quite playable... then again, after boosting it's a lot better.

Coming from the MX-S I indeed didn't have to change much of my stroke mechanics. I did have to account for the noticeably(!) higher throw, but given that the rubber is also noticeably slower (boosted not too large of a difference, if not talking about catapult), this has not lead to many errors. It is very easy to lift backspin with the MX-S, but with the H3N the backspin basically lifts itself in fear of being slapped by the might of a thousand storms! :cool:

What has changed though is that I do smash-drive/loop actually more than with the MX-S. I heard the H3N is not a good rubber to smash with, and I do somewhat get that there might be a control issue for some and that it's not a high-end speed rubber, but I certainly don't have any issues. The lack of catapult helps my offensive game a ton and actually increases the precision of my shots. With the MX-S I would occasionally, especially when tired, overshoot, which now happens very rarely -- only when I do an obvious execution error. The linearity of the rubber is amazing for me personally.

Also I do not really have any lack of pace on my balls. Close to the table, everything is fast enough, mid-distance, the air-bending spin makes the ball dash through the air. Admittedly, they're not nearly as dangerous as max effort shots with the MX-S that almost tickle the net, but those are a category of their own.

The maximum in spin is on par with MX-S, although it is more easily accessible. When with the MX-S you have to be very precise in your stroke to not overshoot or hit the net, if feels like with the H3N you can just hit away and the ball will land on the table.

I also like aggressive counters at the edge of the table. :)

All in all, the H3N is a very intuitive rubber for me. And it comes at a very low price compared to some alternatives.





My current backhand rubber however... Some things I adore about it, somethings I absolutely hate about it. It doesn't allow me to play how I want to play. It's more of a love-hate relationship. I'm still looking for the holy grail, but as of now, I don't have the funds... ;)

yogi_bear
04-28-2017, 01:01 AM
h3 neo is still spinnier than mx-s but when you use the mx-p on power shots vs the regular h3 neo unboosted, you could produce more spin and power with it, it has more speed than h3 neo and much easier to use. i do agree that the transition from mx-s to h3 neo vice versa doesn't take much adjustment.

sanavasaraja
05-03-2017, 12:40 AM
One thing I haven't found a definite answer to is why certain chinese rubbers are sold with such a small increment as 0,05 (2,15 to 2,2). Does it have something to do with the max thickness of 4mm? I've chosen 2,15 as of now because I thought I might just save a few milligrams also considering booster, but hardly would I notice the difference... I think. Any insight? :D

BeGo
05-03-2017, 02:37 AM
One thing I haven't found a definite answer to is why certain chinese rubbers are sold with such a small increment as 0,05 (2,15 to 2,2). Does it have something to do with the max thickness of 4mm? I've chosen 2,15 as of now because I thought I might just save a few milligrams also considering booster, but hardly would I notice the difference... I think. Any insight? :D
My sense "resolution" is 0.5 mm, means I cant discern any meaningful difference when the difference smaller than that. [emoji28]

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

sanavasaraja
05-03-2017, 10:21 AM
My sense "resolution" is 0.5 mm, means I cant discern any meaningful difference when the difference smaller than that. [emoji28]

For me it depends... the thinner and softer the rubber is, the easier I can tell the differences in thickness. And of course the blade plays a certain role. But the stock H3N is thick and hard.

This really bugs me out. I am very soon to buy my next H3N and I wanna know why it had to be 2.15 and 2.2. It's not that I think it will make much of a difference if any at all, really, but I just want to know for the sake of knowing. :D:D I don't understand especially because of the quality control being horrendous, so that in practice trying to put out such a small difference really doesn't even seem to make sense unless you are looking at vast numbers of different copies...

ajtatosmano2
05-03-2017, 12:28 PM
2.2 is probably will be thicker than 4mm after boosting.
Or they had production lines (or whatever..) for 2.15 sponges and then they increased the max thickness in the new lines.

amoc
02-28-2018, 07:55 AM
Is there a rubber out there between MX-S and H3Neo prov?

I don't like all the boosting stuff and the last sheets of H3 had nearly to tackiness :-/
So I tried the MX-S (my backhand rubber) on the forehand and I think this could be an option.
But it would be better for me if the MX-S would be a tad harder and had a tad less catapult.

Any suggestions? Maybe Xiom Omega V Asia?

yoass
02-28-2018, 09:05 AM
Is there a rubber out there between MX-S and H3Neo prov?

I don't like all the boosting stuff and the last sheets of H3 had nearly to tackiness :-/
So I tried the MX-S (my backhand rubber) on the forehand and I think this could be an option.
But it would be better for me if the MX-S would be a tad harder and had a tad less catapult.

Any suggestions? Maybe Xiom Omega V Asia?

Mantra H.

Shiner
02-28-2018, 09:29 AM
Friendship Battle 11

amoc
02-28-2018, 01:43 PM
Friendship Battle 11
I think this is a tacky rubber?

two more candiadates: Aurus Prime & Fastarc G-1.

Any more suggestions?

OhWell
02-28-2018, 04:07 PM
Is there a rubber out there between MX-S and H3Neo prov?

I don't like all the boosting stuff and the last sheets of H3 had nearly to tackiness :-/
So I tried the MX-S (my backhand rubber) on the forehand and I think this could be an option.
But it would be better for me if the MX-S would be a tad harder and had a tad less catapult.

Any suggestions? Maybe Xiom Omega V Asia?

Here is a MX-S vs OVA comparison you might find helpful, written by fellow TTD member NextLevel on another forum (mytt):

"OVA is slower than MX-S. I think the main trade off is between loop arc vs. blocking. There is a linearity but the loops are not blinding fast and OVA is not as deceptively linear as MX-S (I watched one of my MX-S matches recently and was horrified at how much margin my strokes had clearing the net). I think the rubber I think of when I think of OVA is Baracuda. OVT might be closer to Baracuda, but OVT has a harder topsheet. You can use it like a Chinese or Euro rubber and it doesn't bottom out easily.


Let me put it another way - if you are okay with MX-S when you are late to the ball and may need arc, stick with it. If you are okay with MX-S over the table, especially on flicks, stick with it. IF the arc of MX-S in those situations disturbs you and you can adapt to something more spin reactive, give OVA a shot."

jawien
03-01-2018, 01:41 AM
Is there a rubber out there between MX-S and H3Neo prov?

I don't like all the boosting stuff and the last sheets of H3 had nearly to tackiness :-/
So I tried the MX-S (my backhand rubber) on the forehand and I think this could be an option.
But it would be better for me if the MX-S would be a tad harder and had a tad less catapult.


Any suggestions? Maybe Xiom Omega V Asia?

Sorry to barge into your question again Amoc, but as for the OVA - yes, yes and yes ... (look to the left, if using the desktop). Well I use 2.0.

The description OhWell cited is more or less true, but to answer your question:
- MX-S was simply uncontrollable on my TB ALC, just too fast. I heard H301 is bit slower than TB ALC but similar construction.
- OVA has less catapult.
- OVA is more controllable over the net
- I find it quite linear
- has lower arc than T05
- does not get bouncy as T05 when pushing or returning the serve short.
- is closer to the "what you put is what you get" philosphy.

Really nice rubber with this special carbon sponge technology. Got it for almost the same reason (didn't want to play DHS).

yogi_bear
03-01-2018, 03:14 AM
Aside from MX-S, the incoming Vega Tour is like a harder MX-S but faster. Sponge is like a 39-40 degree H3. Throw is low.

amoc
03-01-2018, 05:25 AM
Sorry to barge into your question again Amoc, but as for the OVA - yes, yes and yes ... (look to the left, if using the desktop). Well I use 2.0.

The description OhWell cited is more or less true, but to answer your question:
- MX-S was simply uncontrollable on my TB ALC, just too fast. I heard H301 is bit slower than TB ALC but similar construction.
- OVA has less catapult.
- OVA is more controllable over the net
- I find it quite linear
- has lower arc than T05
- does not get bouncy as T05 when pushing or returning the serve short.
- is closer to the "what you put is what you get" philosphy.

Really nice rubber with this special carbon sponge technology. Got it for almost the same reason (didn't want to play DHS).

Thank you very much!!

amoc
03-01-2018, 05:26 AM
Aside from MX-S, the incoming Vega Tour is like a harder MX-S but faster. Sponge is like a 39-40 degree H3. Throw is low.

Sounds quite interesting. I'm looking forward for your deeper review!

amoc
03-02-2018, 05:25 AM
could someone please compare the arc given by MX-S, OVA, and Omega VII Tour?

Lightzy
03-02-2018, 07:15 AM
972 Battle II

Solves all the problems of the H3Neo (inconsistency of make, too mild tackiness, too slow). If you want a hard rubber of the chinese philosophy it's the best currently available I think.

It's obviously not as fast as the MX-S if you play passively, but for serve and 3rd ball attack its very very hard to beat.

yogi_bear
03-02-2018, 06:12 PM
The Omega VII Tour has not been released yet.