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TTHopeful
12-07-2016, 11:44 PM
A few posts have appeared recently about Harimoto's loud cheering but the World Junior Championships is a bit to much don't you think?

I read on a French site that Alexandre Cassin was really annoyed at Harimoto.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12IpKyUix8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YapXtyLeENc

Ilia Minkin
12-07-2016, 11:55 PM
But his opponents are not that quiet either. According to the screams in background Harimoto could easily be not the loudest there :) Probably his body language is what annoyed them.

Tryzerlol
12-07-2016, 11:59 PM
The problem is, while I really despise the kid for being so ridiculously annoying, the fact that Cassin is pissed off because of it kind of proves Harimoto right and gives him the acknowledgement that what he is doing has an effect, meaning he will most likely continue to scream his lungs out.

I really doubt that this behaviour will keep on as he grows older though.

DattJesicht
12-08-2016, 12:03 AM
Being annoyed/complaining about excessive screaming (as long as it's before or after a ralley) always seems a little foolish to me - especially after losing a match. It just seems like you're looking for an excuse.

Ilia Minkin
12-08-2016, 12:51 AM
BTW, I wonder if he (or actually any other pros) yell in practice matches? Pissing off your practice partners can be actually a bad thing to do.

Xylit
12-08-2016, 01:00 AM
Well... he acts like a complete retard and therefore fits well into the world of table tennis. However, you cannot really blame him but rather his coaches.

Badger
12-08-2016, 02:32 AM
"However, you cannot really blame him but rather his coaches."

Huh? It is completely his choice as to whether or not he screams before and after every point. The coaches clearly don't give a shit, but this kid makes the decision.

countrybread
12-08-2016, 03:06 AM
I think its both. His coaches probably give him little tournament tactics such as screaming, and he decides to go along with it because it seems to work against certain opponents. Even his little sister screams like him.

Honorable mentions: Sakura Mori, Kim Song I, Bernadette Szocs, Liu Dingshuo

Der_Echte
12-08-2016, 05:08 AM
A pic right up Country Bread's alley.

11543

laistrogian
12-08-2016, 05:40 AM
There are some people who plays better when they vent out, while some plays better when they don't. Yelling has always been one way of letting out your adrenaline.

I don't mind Harimoto cho-ing every single point, but it needs to be done at the appropriate time. If you are on your 7th game or playing something like semi-finals and finals, sure. We all have seen ma long, zjk and mizutani when playing important matches. or look at Ryu seung min against wang hao at 2004 athens, it was a full blown yelling war but everyone understands what was at stake in that match, no one's gonna complain they were hyped like mad.

bobpuls
12-08-2016, 06:29 AM
There are some people who plays better when they vent out, while some plays better when they don't. Yelling has always been one way of letting out your adrenaline.

I don't mind Harimoto cho-ing every single point, but it needs to be done at the appropriate time. If you are on your 7th game or playing something like semi-finals and finals, sure. We all have seen ma long, zjk and mizutani when playing important matches. or look at Ryu seung min against wang hao at 2004 athens, it was a full blown yelling war but everyone understands what was at stake in that match, no one's gonna complain they were hyped like mad.
I just don`t mind when opponent is screaming when he hit it the way i can not reach the ball or so .... but when he scream like hell when i make a mistake is like insult for me ..... and this one is the exactly one who just do not have respect from the opponent ... what is more sad in this days ,,is most of the young players takes only this bad habits from the pros ...
But i can not remember player from top 20 who has such bad habits.

vik
12-08-2016, 07:43 AM
harimoto is most annoying player to watch.It would be good make a rule to prohibit such a yelling.Or give him a yellow card.Maybe to have loud meter or something like that and if you yell to much give him yellow card warning.Always loud "Sa" before each point and 2 times "chole ,cho."Its annoying to watch ,how about to play against him

ttmonster
12-08-2016, 03:13 PM
you are right but its not very easy to tell in table tennis when is when ... I know a player who keeps on changing the spin on the ball a little bit at a time so that when you miss you keep feeling that its your fault but its not ...

I just don`t mind when opponent is screaming when he hit it the way i can not reach the ball or so .... but when he scream like hell when i make a mistake is like insult for me ..... and this one is the exactly one who just do not have respect from the opponent ... what is more sad in this days ,,is most of the young players takes only this bad habits from the pros ...
But i can not remember player from top 20 who has such bad habits.

Yecats Encerwal
12-08-2016, 03:26 PM
Well... he acts like a complete retard and therefore fits well into the world of table tennis.

Xylit,

I think this Is horrible thing to say about a sport that is loved by so many people.

How can you say something like this? Are you suggesting table tennis players are retarded?

Some attributes of players are annoying, granted, but "retarded"? No.

There are so many true ambassadors for the sport who show nothing but good sportsmanship and outstanding levels of professionalism - Timo Boll, Vladimir Samsonov etc...

Please do not categorise our sport as "retarded".

TT_Rogue
12-08-2016, 11:35 PM
My... how are you wondering that he has mental issues when half the people he knows wants to have sex with an octopus and other half wants to watch people have sex with an octopus :D

countrybread
12-08-2016, 11:42 PM
A pic right up Country Bread's alley.

11543

Why I do believe you've just discovered a new breed of feline in its natural habitat. The cho cat! Notice how one arm is bigger than the other and its perfect looping form. Outstanding work der_echte!

Baal
12-08-2016, 11:44 PM
My personal feeling is that these kids are being coached to do this. Otherwise it is just hard to see how screaming like that after every point is in any way natural. It is a relatively recent thing too, at least at this level. Waldner didn't do it. WLQ didn't do it. Zhang Yining didn't do it.

I hate it. I personally I think ITTF should do something about it. They won't. They took away ZJK's prize money but they won't do anything about this.

sanavasaraja
12-09-2016, 12:46 AM
I fear that one day one of his opponents is just gonna snap and knock him flat with a swinger right to the dome. The immature sociopathic part of me wouldn't feel sorry, maybe even enjoy it. Yes, I'm sort of joking, I do not wish him harm.

But he causes harm to his opponents. The screaming doesn't prove him "right", like someone here said. Of cause it will affect even the strongest of mental mindsets, who would even contest that? You play against someone, you make a stupid little mistake like pushing an easy ball into the net, you think "God damnit, that was unnecessary". The other guy had absolutely no doing or credit in him receiving an additional point in the set and all you instantly hear is a ridiculous bellowing. You fail a service return on the first or second point of the set, CHOOOOO!!!!!!, you misjudge the spin of the third ball a little and just barely overshoot the table and you wonder whether your opponent will be able to speak the next day.

I have not the slightest of aversion to a shout of relief after a well fought rally. I have absolutely nothing against a stress relieving short "SO!" just before serving. But that, that is not natural. That in my opinion is unspeakably terrible sportsmanship. It is bad intent, and if its not bad intent, its ignorance. He might as well replace the CHOOO with HAHAHAAA. I would love to watch his games but I just can't.

I'm probably on the more sensitive end of the spectrum and I'm sure there are players that absolutely accept this as part of the game. But I personally want to win by being better at the game. I want to win because I am mechanically more skilled, because I possess more finesse and game sense, not by psychological warfare. The mental part of the game does not imply that I would want to try to make my opponent worse by shouting him down - and I expect my opponent to do the same. Where I play, people actually sometimes say "Good one!" after their opponents hit a particularly nice shot on them. That is beautiful and humbling!

For a positive note: Isn't it thrilling to see upcoming talents like these? I wonder how high he will be rated in his prime! He has many, many good years to come :) Will he have a shot at beating Ma Long in 2 years time as a 15 year old like Wang Chuqin?! I do hope though that he keeps working hard and doesn't waste his talent or that he doesn't get bored with the sport... Would be a big loss!

LordPippington
12-09-2016, 01:26 AM
I think even more comical in the final, is that his opponent is named Cho! So every shout is like a direct call out, lol... CHO!

Baal
12-09-2016, 01:50 AM
"However, you cannot really blame him but rather his coaches."

Huh? It is completely his choice as to whether or not he screams before and after every point. The coaches clearly don't give a shit, but this kid makes the decision.

I suspect the coaches are telling him to do it, that this is good for him. Some sort of martial arts theory or something. Who knows? But in general people don't do this kind of thing spontaneously, not for the vast portion of the long history of the sport, and it is not like the psychology of sport has changed. Balls have changed, serve rules have changed, but people still feel the same pressures that they always did. I am convinced there is an intent behind it, and I suspect it is directed at the opponent, and I think it should be yellow and red carded.

Ilia Minkin
12-09-2016, 03:05 AM
My personal feeling is that these kids are being coached to do this. Otherwise it is just hard to see how screaming like that after every point is in any way natural. It is a relatively recent thing too, at least at this level. Waldner didn't do it. WLQ didn't do it. Zhang Yining didn't do it.

I hate it. I personally I think ITTF should do something about it. They won't. They took away ZJK's prize money but they won't do anything about this.

Whenever I play a tourney and see a Chinese kid coached by a parent or a Chinese coach, it is 90% that the kid will yell Harimoto-style.

Suga D
12-09-2016, 08:08 AM
Where I play, people actually sometimes say "Good one!" after their opponents hit a particularly nice shot on them. That is beautiful and humbling!


Thank you!

Few people around here do that as well.

That is true sportsmanship.
One of the reasons why i love this sport so much!

Harimoto is still so young. he'll grow out of this.

Tembel
12-09-2016, 09:31 AM
Man, this kid really knows how to focus on each and every point. He celebrates like he won the olympic gold medal after every won rally.

bobpuls
12-09-2016, 10:15 AM
you are right but its not very easy to tell in table tennis when is when ... I know a player who keeps on changing the spin on the ball a little bit at a time so that when you miss you keep feeling that its your fault but its not ...
It is still my fault...

Donow
12-09-2016, 11:30 AM
He screams like this cause he is a fighter, a warrior, his destiny is to beat the chinese later : he is surpassing himself by choing

Boogar
12-09-2016, 12:29 PM
I think even more comical in the final, is that his opponent is named Cho! So every shout is like a direct call out, lol... CHO!

Hahah that one made me laugh xD good one!

phillypong
12-09-2016, 02:39 PM
the shouting is indeed a way of keeping very focused in our extremely fast sport, one of the notorious shouters was Jean-Michel Saive, he CHOed like a mad man in his best years :cool:

its not always nice to see for the spectators, just one of the weird aspects of our crazy sport ... there was one young chinese player who shouted really loud too ( lin ... ) , what a completely mad, crazy sport this is actually ...

ttmonster
12-09-2016, 02:53 PM
Why is it your fault, its a forced error not an unforced error ..

It is still my fault...

bobpuls
12-09-2016, 03:21 PM
There is not such think like forced error ... with this attitude you can not play any game.

ronz91
12-09-2016, 03:46 PM
He is playing in the U21 grand tour final event. No shouting to be seen in the first 2 sets. This maybe be fatigue though, seeing as he is playing 2 tournaments in the space of two weeks.

ttmonster
12-09-2016, 05:00 PM
What has this do to with attitude ? Chill man ... we were discussing technicalities ...
I never said what Harimoto is doing is correct , of course its is wrong , but there is no use complaining unless ITTF decides to intervene and we know they don't listen to our opinions ... if they did we would be still playing with celluloid balls.

Now coming back to topic , the assertion was that you can cho when your opponent is missing a shot because of you , lets say you hit a great loop or you hit a good smash ...

I feel , a tricky serve that gets returned into the net or a disguised ball where the player returning is not able to tell the spin is as much to the players credit as a good loop , essentially you are forcing the opponent to miss or make a mistake ...

hence , I don't see there is a way where unless you are the player , you can tell honestly whether it was to the players credit or it was a mistake by the other guy ... so no point in criticizing that as rude ... because you can't tell for sure ...


There is not such think like forced error ... with this attitude you can not play any game.

bobpuls
12-09-2016, 05:17 PM
Do not take it personally .
Every opponent is forcing you to you make a error this is the point of the game.
But when you can not return the ball due you misread spin , it`s still your fault .
I see it this way.

ttmonster
12-09-2016, 06:08 PM
Okay, I did not take it personally, thats why I was trying to explain, my be its the language why I felt you took it personally ... but leave that aside ...

Yes that is a valid way to see it .. but then everything in the game is your fault , you could not reach the ball why the opponent hit winner , you are not good enough to block his super powerful third ball attack ... where do you draw the line ? .. IMO you cannot draw the line and the only black and white fault is when miss your own serve , there other foolproof situation to give credit as a bystander , so I would just take it out of consideration .. whatever the reason I lost the point and let him scream .. I will get the next one ... thats how I would like to think ...


Do not take it personally .
Every opponent is forcing you to you make a error this is the point of the game.
But when you can not return the ball due you misread spin , it`s still your fault .
I see it this way.

ajtatosmano2
12-09-2016, 07:59 PM
Who don't like Harimoto's Cho!-ing just go for one of national junior tournament! I am sure there will be 3-4 like Harimoto, some even worse.

sanavasaraja
12-09-2016, 09:49 PM
The perks of being this young of a player always has the benefit of it being quite an upset once said player beats one of the big hitters, if he loses people usually dont hear much about it - in two ways: Muramatsu beat him quite decisively today, needless to say it was a rather quiet game.

ronz91
12-10-2016, 05:38 PM
The perks of being this young of a player always has the benefit of it being quite an upset once said player beats one of the big hitters, if he loses people usually dont hear much about it - in two ways: Muramatsu beat him quite decisively today, needless to say it was a rather quiet game.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, I will put down the poor performance to fatigue and jet-lag.

Suga D
12-10-2016, 05:55 PM
As I have mentioned elsewhere, I will put down the poor performance to fatigue and jet-lag.

Jetlag??
[Emoji15]
Are you serious? The time difference from Doha to Capetown is +1 hour.
It's not like flying from Tokyo to Capetown...

Baal
12-10-2016, 06:19 PM
Kids that young don't really get fatigued.

Tryzerlol
12-11-2016, 12:35 AM
You're right, kids that young don't usually get fatigued. Then again kids that young don't usually play on a world class level. I won't arrogate myself the abiltiy to judge how fatigued or not he may be after the junior tournament - but I don't think that plays a role here anyway. The guy could've been in best shape and would've received the same roast from Muramatsu.

Tony's Table Tennis
12-11-2016, 12:58 AM
It has nothing to do with fatigue

When he wins points, he yells
when he doesn't win points, he is very very very very very quiet with a very very very very negative body language/expression (this got to do with his age)

He also doesn't yell after winning game point or match point, so to me, his yelling is more tactical than oppose to emotional as most players will yell after securing game or match point

ttmonster
12-11-2016, 02:29 AM
You might have hit the nail on the head Tony. Could be , and just guessing , that his coaches have seen is super negative body language after losing points and have pushed him to yell when he wins , a case of trying to straighten the dog's tail :P

It has nothing to do with fatigue

When he wins points, he yells
when he doesn't win points, he is very very very very very quiet with a very very very very negative body language/expression (this got to do with his age)

He also doesn't yell after winning game point or match point, so to me, his yelling is more tactical than oppose to emotional as most players will yell after securing game or match point

Baal
12-11-2016, 02:40 AM
Tony is right.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-11-2016, 03:14 AM
I am waiting to see if his sister will yell as loud as her older brother.
She is 8 and finished 2nd in the national championships in 2016 in her "bambi" category


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu-7DXXRvFQ

Tony's Table Tennis
12-11-2016, 07:44 AM
I forgot to mention, other than the yelling, he also fist both hands into the air while looking into the sky/ceiling.
at times, it will feel like he will fall backwards :p
I think that is more annoying than the yelling

And also, game/match point he won't do that - unless it was the final when he just fell down to the floor

sanavasaraja
12-11-2016, 12:26 PM
I am waiting to see if his sister will yell as loud as her older brother.
She is 8 and finished 2nd in the national championships in 2016 in her "bambi" category

What on earth is that grip of the other kid in this video? I think I have never seen that one before... Looks like some drunk reverse penhold variant. Is this the new ultimate tabletennis hipster in the making? :rolleyes:

Boogar
12-11-2016, 12:28 PM
What on earth is that grip of the other kid in this video? I think I have never seen that one before... Looks like some drunk reverse penhold variant. Is this the new ultimate tabletennis hipster in the making? :rolleyes:

Its called katana penhold :D

ronz91
12-11-2016, 01:57 PM
Jetlag??
[Emoji15]
Are you serious? The time difference from Doha to Capetown is +1 hour.
It's not like flying from Tokyo to Capetown...

sorry jet lag is the wrong term. I meant the detrimental effects of travelling, its 12000km from Cpt to Doha plus he played 3 or 4 events at World Junior and made it far in all of them.

ronz91
12-11-2016, 02:00 PM
Kids that young don't really get fatigued.

everyone gets fatigued

Tony's Table Tennis
12-11-2016, 03:32 PM
sorry jet lag is the wrong term. I meant the detrimental effects of travelling, its 12000km from Cpt to Doha plus he played 3 or 4 events at World Junior and made it far in all of them.

3-11,6-11,2-11,5-11
He got 16 points vs 44 points
there is nothing to yell about - fatigue or not

eyepop
10-04-2017, 04:45 PM
When asked "Womit kann ein Gegner Sie provozieren?", which I translate as (and please correct me if I'm wrong) "How can an opponent provoke you?", Timo Boll replied:

14381

The rest of the interview can be found here (http://sz-magazin.sueddeutsche.de/texte/anzeigen/46466/Sagen-Sie-jetzt-nichts-Timo-Boll).
Timo is such an awesome dude.

Suga D
10-04-2017, 07:25 PM
When asked "Womit kann ein Gegner Sie provozieren?", which I translate as (and please correct me if I'm wrong) "How can an opponent provoke you?", Timo Boll replied:

14381

The rest of the interview can be found here (http://sz-magazin.sueddeutsche.de/texte/anzeigen/46466/Sagen-Sie-jetzt-nichts-Timo-Boll).
Timo is such an awesome dude.

Well translated!
Thank you. This made me laugh hard
[Emoji23]

Simas
10-04-2017, 09:04 PM
Yes, for me Harimoto is a little bit too loud.... but he is not even close in the ability to irritate me compared to Sharapova :) she makes a high pitch scream with every stroke. It drives me crazy :)

Boogar
10-04-2017, 09:28 PM
I have seen this on facebook as well :D had to snort a bit!