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AndyB
12-27-2016, 07:05 PM
Hi guys,

I have got a question on a rubber of mine that may be a fake.





116791168011681




I bought this rubber on Prott.cc for 90 or so USD.
Do you think it's an original rubber intended for Chinese national team? The issue is that this player EmRatThich (seems ex-pro player) you may know for this Youtube podcasts assures all rubbers like this are fakes and every Chinese player knows that.
I would appreciate any comments and especially from Chinese Pro players should knowthe truth for sure.

Thank you in advance.

Giangt
12-27-2016, 07:38 PM
Hi there. Did the rubber come in a vacuum packed bag? Could u post a picture of the print on the top sheet?

AndyB
12-27-2016, 08:23 PM
Hi there. Did the rubber come in a vacuum packed bag? Could u post a picture of the print on the top sheet?

Yes, it was in that bah. Here is a photo. I have just made it (after a year or so I use it)11682
It has a blue sponge. And I forgot to add - it's Neo version

AndyB
12-27-2016, 08:29 PM
Also I bought Ma Long's "so-called" personal Skyline III (that very 50 percent or so more expensive) there (Prott.cc) so if there are Chinese pro players (who aware of details on that this subject) on this forum, you are most welcome. I can add pics on this rubber too.

Giangt
12-27-2016, 08:43 PM
The pictures are not close enough, but the blue sponge rubber u have look genuine. For reference please see the following link.
https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?5028-Fake-blue-sponge-provincial-hurricane-spotted-image-analysis

UpSideDownCarl
12-27-2016, 08:50 PM
This is what I would be asking if I was you:

Does the rubber play well?
Do I like the rubber?
How long did it last?

If you liked the rubber and it worked for you, the rest may not matter so much. I would like to say that there is someone on the forum who can give you a legitimate answer to your question. There may be. But, I'm not so sure.

Either way, good luck and continue to enjoy playing table tennis. For me, the specific equipment is not as important as the fun of playing and working on technique.


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AndyB
12-28-2016, 05:02 AM
Carl, When I was buying it, I wanted to know how the real national rubber plays. To understand difference between what I had played with. To learn what rubbers top Chinese players play with. To get that feeling. That was the reason of purchase.
Now I am not even sure that I will ever achieve it I don;t even know whether the rubber (and the second one - Skyline III) a fake or not

rokphish
12-28-2016, 05:57 AM
i'll try to give different perspective...

think of it this way:
1. the national version is the class A version, better quality and/or consistency.
2. the provincial version is the class B version, less than the national but better than the commercial.
3. the commercial version is the class C version, good quality with less consistency.

provincial doesn't mean province level players using it,
national doesn't mean national level players using it
scratch your idea of playing with XX players' rubbers you'll be more at peace

for those just testing the water on hurricane 3, just get the commercial if you want more affordable option, if you like it and want to proceed with better and more consistent rubber then go up the ladder.

if you have the dough you could get the provincial one for better percentage of getting your money's worth, if you like it and want to proceed with better and more consistent rubber then go up the ladder.
many would be satisfied with the provincial ones.

many bad reps of H3 comes from people not liking/not familiar with it in the first place.

for those familiar and liking it, they can feel the difference between them and to some the extra price is worth it. and also they know about the caveats of h3 and accept them for what they are, good and bad.

bobpuls
12-28-2016, 06:04 AM
I have buy from prott and tested some of them and i`m satisfied ... but still i can not say it is 100% legit .... i found prott is selling also fake rubbers .... and when fake then i thing he is able to get hands on the parts them self from the dhs factory and then glue them together somehow ...this is way he is mentioning "the bubbles can appear over a period of time" for example ... i find he was selling red dhs h8 with blue sponge ...which is just nonsense .. after i point this one out they just disappear from the web page.

Suga D
12-28-2016, 10:38 AM
i'll try to give different perspective...

think of it this way:
1. the national version is the class A version, better quality and/or consistency.
2. the provincial version is the class B version, less than the national but better than the commercial.
3. the commercial version is the class C version, good quality with less consistency.

provincial doesn't mean province level players using it,
national doesn't mean national level players using it
scratch your idea of playing with XX players' rubbers you'll be more at peace

for those just testing the water on hurricane 3, just get the commercial if you want more affordable option, if you like it and want to proceed with better and more consistent rubber then go up the ladder.

if you have the dough you could get the provincial one for better percentage of getting your money's worth, if you like it and want to proceed with better and more consistent rubber then go up the ladder.
many would be satisfied with the provincial ones.

many bad reps of H3 comes from people not liking/not familiar with it in the first place.

for those familiar and liking it, they can feel the difference between them and to some the extra price is worth it. and also they know about the caveats of h3 and accept them for what they are, good and bad.

That was gold.

AndyB
12-28-2016, 12:40 PM
Of course, mine National was better than the Provincial one I bought as well. that was my first Chinese rubber in fact.

AndyB
12-28-2016, 12:50 PM
Have you seen this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFe9CiNSX_c&t=620s
A Chinese player talks about Chinese fakes. The most interesting starts from 3.17

UpSideDownCarl
12-28-2016, 01:26 PM
Have you seen this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFe9CiNSX_c&t=620s
A Chinese player talks about Chinese fakes. The most interesting starts from 3.17

I don't think that guy is Chinese. His name is definitely not Chinese. Can someone confirm where EmRatThich is from?




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UpSideDownCarl
12-28-2016, 01:33 PM
i'll try to give different perspective...

think of it this way:
1. the national version is the class A version, better quality and/or consistency.
2. the provincial version is the class B version, less than the national but better than the commercial.
3. the commercial version is the class C version, good quality with less consistency.

provincial doesn't mean province level players using it,
national doesn't mean national level players using it
scratch your idea of playing with XX players' rubbers you'll be more at peace

for those just testing the water on hurricane 3, just get the commercial if you want more affordable option, if you like it and want to proceed with better and more consistent rubber then go up the ladder.

if you have the dough you could get the provincial one for better percentage of getting your money's worth, if you like it and want to proceed with better and more consistent rubber then go up the ladder.
many would be satisfied with the provincial ones.

many bad reps of H3 comes from people not liking/not familiar with it in the first place.

for those familiar and liking it, they can feel the difference between them and to some the extra price is worth it. and also they know about the caveats of h3 and accept them for what they are, good and bad.

rokphish's post is pure gold and is exactly where I was going. Think about it.


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mr. tom
12-28-2016, 01:41 PM
The internet says she is from Vietnam. You can find info on facebook and youtube:

https://www.facebook.com/pg/EmRatThichVo/about/?ref=page_internal

https://www.youtube.com/c/EmRatThichGaming

I leave in the middle how correct the internet is off course.


I don't think that guy is Chinese. His name is definitely not Chinese. Can someone confirm where EmRatThich is from?




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AndyB
12-28-2016, 01:57 PM
It's strange. He (not she - listen to his voice) said : We, Chinese players

UpSideDownCarl
12-28-2016, 02:46 PM
I don't really want to disrespect EmRatThich because there are plenty of things he says that are good and useful. But hopefully you can see that he sees things one way and oversimplifies. So many things he says end up being inaccurate.

For instance, he says all pros use Chinese rubber on FH. We know this is not true. He says pros hit too hard for tensor rubbers and tensor rubbers lose spin and power with that much force applied. I am going to say, in his prime, Timo Bill had some of the spinniest loops out there. And he was using professional level force and he was not using Chinese rubber.

There are plenty of pros who do not use Chinese rubber. The CNT players are the best and they do. But them being the best probably has more to do with amount and quality of training they get from an early age.

Can you get the exact rubber that Ma Long or another CNT player uses? Not easy but possible. Your best shot would be seeing them after a tournament and asking for their old, used rubber.

There is at least one member on the forum who has an H3 National that he got that way.

Back in the day I tried H3 Commercial, Provincial and National. I am fairly confident the Provincial and National were real because I got them from a friend who was on China's National Team before she moved to USA. She was pretty honest with me. She told me that the differences were not so big. That usually, only a very high level player could fully utilize the differences. The reason I trust her is, she was not trying to take advantage and make money from me. In fact, she was saying the less expensive versions were more than good enough for my needs. Her top coaches who were all over 2500 and from China back then all agreed with her.

There are a few reasons why I no longer use H3. The biggest one is the hustle of boosting and reboosting. Without boosting the rubber is okay. But it is nowhere near as good. H3 is meant to be boosted.

And from this standpoint, you will probably find any real version of H3 could be fine if well boosted.

Here is what I understand about the boosters out there. Falco works, is okay and is easy to get ahold of. DianChi is significantly better but costs significantly more. Haifu SeaMoon is a little better than DianChi but costs more. And Haifu Oil costs a lot more than the others but is WAY better.

You may have a better idea what the CNT players are using if you were boosting with Haifu Oil. But you have to judge what you want.

And if those rubbers you got from ProTT play well for you, you don't need to worry about the rest. But chances are when you got them, they were boosted. So reboosting with good booster oil may be as close as you are going to get to trying what Ma Long uses.

In short, EmRatThich may be right that rubbers you buy over the internet claiming to be "National" or "Ma Long's Personal Rubber" may just be boosted rubber with the National Team marking and/or with Ma Long's name written on them. But now that you have the rubbers, if you use them and they play well for you, keep using them. Enjoy them. Boost them if you want. But you probably don't need to pay that kind of money for H3 anymore.

Play with the rubber and have fun.


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UpSideDownCarl
12-28-2016, 03:59 PM
It's strange. He (not she - listen to his voice) said : We, Chinese players

Yes, he has a photo of a woman on his FaceBook but it sure sounds like an old man. So I think it is "He". He is a CNT Fanboy from Vietnam who seems to think the only pros out there are on the CNT. He is not alone in that. But that means players from Korea, Japan, Germany....they are not pros. And that simply isn't how it is.

And something about the way this guy oversimplifies and sometimes simply presents incorrect information to support a point that may ultimately be valid makes me want to see footage of him playing and coaching. I also wonder what the highest level of players he has coached are and if he coached them all the way from beginner to a high level or not. All I can say is that some of the stuff he says is good. Often that stuff is kind of obvious. But good nevertheless. But then there are other things he says that just get the BS Detector Software on my NSA SpyPhone working overtime.

How I would explain the strengths and weaknesses of H3 is like this: because the rubber is a little tacky and non-bouncy, not much catapult effect, it is very easy to use in the short game and gives you a lot of control in the short game. This is huge.

Then the other advantage is when you take a big swing with full power. EmRatThich sort of shows this with one of his charts. I just don't agree with how his chart characterizes Catapult rubbers as losing power at the top end. I think that is not quite accurate. With the right technique and full power, tensor rubbers and spring sponge rubbers are great. But they are harder to control: considerably harder. If Euro/Jap rubbers were not good with maximum power, why would CNT players twiddle to the Tenergy side when smashing high balls? But when you take a giant swing with H3, the rubber rewards you with an amazing amount of control and great power: power+control is hard to beat. Swinging that hard with Tenergy is definitely harder to control.

So there are two places where H3 really shines:

1) the soft touch of the short game.
and
2) blasting loops with full power and spin.

If that is your game, and if you have the footwork to be in position to take full stroke power shot after full stroke power shot, then H3 is amazing. Even if you don't have that skill it is still great rubber. But it's weaknesses fall in the ranges between soft touch shots and giant power strokes. So the weaknesses of H3 fall in the comfort zone of many amateur players. H3 also may not be so great for long range lobbing and trying to shift gears from lobbing to counter looping.

In any case, don't second guess yourself. If your equipment is working for you and you like it, it actually does not matter so much what it is. Remember, the technique of the player matters much more than the equipment.

Here, for fun:


https://youtu.be/i0DYF16cpvs


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TT4Life
12-28-2016, 04:55 PM
prott site is legit, i dont know other rubbers but blue national hurricane is legit , the only rubbers that i use for my forehand from the start when i 1st learning how to play and will never change :)

UpSideDownCarl
12-28-2016, 04:58 PM
Here. As this was posted on this thread someone was posting about EmRatThich on a different thread:


Probably late to the party on this one but I'm calling BS on a relatively new youtube channel. EmRatThich

If you guys like to occasionally surf table tennis related things on youtube, you've probably seen this one.

It wasn't until this video, where I simply thought, okay lets get serious.

"How to Loop"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuHXni-Vcac

In the past I've thought "This guy seems to know at least something about table tennis." But after this one, I think I've had my fill. Every video increasingly becomes more & more a theme of China does it right. Everywhere else in the world does it wrong. He essentially says he's seen as much about 20 seconds into the video... Nevermind the fact that there are 1.3 billion people in that country as a sample size to select from. ;)... But that's a different topic.

I simply asked for some footage of the person playing or the coaching they have been receiving simply as a means to justify them as a legitimate table tennis source and wouldn't you know it? Crickets in reply. SMH.

Worth reading. And clearly I am not the only one who hears the BS and wants to see the guy and his students play.

If you want the rest of the responses to this post, go to the TTDaily Chit Chat thread to page 197. That is where it starts. It was the last page when I posted this. But that thread keeps growing.


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Jabugo
12-28-2016, 05:28 PM
Here. As this was posted on this thread someone was posting about EmRatThich on a different thread:



Worth reading. And clearly I am not the only one who hears the BS and wants to see the guy and his students play.

If you want the rest of the responses to this post, go to the TTDaily Chit Chat thread to page 197. That is where it starts. It was the last page when I posted this. But that thread keeps growing.


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It's true that you want to see the person play. Every individual has a different physical make up: skinny, big, long arms, short legs, small hands, big feet, etc. That individual build affects how each person will play, and a good personal coach will be able to point out a proper stroke to suit the individual. Theory is the same for everyone, but application requires a spotter to correct and optimize the theory to the individual. ZJK and FZD have the same coach with similar theory, but the players look very different with the way they execute their serves and strokes.
Also, their rubber choices are individualized to suit their strong points and tastes.

UpSideDownCarl
12-28-2016, 06:33 PM
Also I bought Ma Long's "so-called" personal Skyline III (that very 50 percent or so more expensive) there (Prott.cc) so if there are Chinese pro players (who aware of details on that this subject) on this forum, you are most welcome. I can add pics on this rubber too.

BTW: this might give some context here as well. Ma Long used Skyline III for a few months in 2011. It was a pretty short time. So if that was actually "his" rubber it is too old to be as good as what you were hoping for. 5 year old rubber is 5 year old rubber. No matter how good it was when it was first pressed

And before ML used TG3 he used H3. And after TG3 he went right back to H3.


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AndyB
12-28-2016, 06:41 PM
Thank you very much guys!

bobpuls
12-28-2016, 08:48 PM
generally EmRathich is just someone who is just creating self promo stuff about common things you can find on the internet... but still something like hoax page for me... if you want to find something more interesting go for the nexy engineer builder diary or something like that (ask dr echte or next level for the link or just go to http://mytabletennis.net/forum/ and search there).... you will found more or less advertise stuff there but you can still find something interesting between the lines....

cmhtbx
12-29-2016, 12:05 AM
I don't think that guy is Chinese. His name is definitely not Chinese. Can someone confirm where EmRatThich is from?




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From Vitnam/Combodia areas I believed