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Zraxel
12-31-2016, 07:19 PM
Although the sport of table tennis originated in England in the 19th century. Countries from other parts of the world has stolen the sport from the English. Such as China, Japan, Germany and more.

What is it that English players can do to work their way up to the top again!?:D:D:D:D:D

Tony's Table Tennis
01-01-2017, 09:44 AM
I don't think stolen is the right word
you do know that the English invaded, killed, raped, destroyed pretty much everywhere and gave the sport to other countries.
Just like any other commonwealth sport, English sport is shocking lowly ranked hehehehe

But I guess this will require someone in England to tell me why so many sports has become like this.
Maybe lazy youth culture?

Kontra
01-01-2017, 10:06 AM
This may turn in to very interesting topic :)

Falkengott
01-01-2017, 11:00 AM
I think its, the wrong topic, but why is the world ranking not updated in this page?

Archosaurus
01-01-2017, 11:50 AM
I had a chuckle when I read "stolen". So evil they are those Chinese, getting good at something. :rolleyes:

Raylazyfo
01-01-2017, 12:06 PM
Although the sport of table tennis originated in England in the 19th century. Countries from other parts of the world has stolen the sport from the English. Such as China, Japan, Germany and more.

What is it that English players can do to work their way up to the top again!?:D:D:D:D:D

IMO, Top European and English players need to stop trying to copy the Chinese in everything they do. Instead, they should play with more imagination as this seems to be what the Chinese players cant handle.

Tony's Table Tennis
01-01-2017, 12:25 PM
This may turn in to very interesting topic :)

Topic should be changed from Chinese Domination to Why English are #$%$#%# in things they invented :p

Zraxel
01-01-2017, 01:16 PM
Best answer yet!!

TTFrenzy
01-01-2017, 02:12 PM
Although the sport of table tennis originated in England in the 19th century. Countries from other parts of the world has stolen the sport from the English. Such as China, Japan, Germany and more.

What is it that English players can do to work their way up to the top again!?:D:D:D:D:D


you are an amateur troll. did you vote for brexit? please pay your taxes so I can feed myself cause im a really lazy greek

TTFrenzy
01-01-2017, 02:13 PM
the table tennis ball should be measured in yards and foot metrics, this will definitely make table tennis more popular

kirua18
01-01-2017, 02:16 PM
What is it that English players can do to work their way up to the top again!?


It's very simple. You need to recuit Ma Long, Fan Zhendong, Xu Xin, Zhang Jike and coach Liu Guoliang, and give them england nationality.

England will win all next titles for few years.

Skully
01-01-2017, 02:21 PM
If we're being serious. Table Tennis England needs more money and more grants from the Lottery. I know its a lot better from the "dark days" at the end of the last decade where we'd get a Chinese star to come over and help teach the youth despite TTE had no money and had to get locals Chinese families to put them up with a room during their stay.

Once money is there, and I'm not talking about insane amounts, then we can start to promote table tennis and not ping pong, I know in today's society its hard to promote a sport like Table Tennis to be fun, but if we can't get the sport around schools we can't start looking for the next talent. Once we have the talent, we need to look at keeping them playing and not putting silly money constraints in their way, making the sport like Tennis where you need a family with money (or a sponsorship) to help you progress.

If we can get the grass roots sorted, then we can start using the money to get the right progression for players. Table Tennis is an Olympic sport and until Rio it was one of the sports we hardly gave two hoots about, now we have a strong base with great results in the Mens event and then the Paralympics. We just gotta keep it going and get the coaches in.

Dare I say it: Take a page from Every other National sporting team in England/GBR: get a foreign manager/coach in. I'm, sure theres a German coach that would look at the challenge of helping to keep the revival of British Table Tennis going

Tinykin
01-01-2017, 03:00 PM
Although the sport of table tennis originated in England in the 19th century. Countries from other parts of the world has stolen the sport from the English. Such as China, Japan, Germany and more.
What is it that English players can do to work their way up to the top again!?:D:D:D:D:D

I know that your post was meant to enrage and elicit hyper-sensitive responses but let's be calm and present some facts:
As much as you criticise English TT, you do realise that from a base of about 20k players and no professional league, England reached the quarter finals at the TT World team championship.
As for other sports, in the 2016 Olympics, team GB were second overall on the medal table. That is they whupped China thoroughly just as they do in most major sports except TT..........and maybe badminton...and maybe basketball. But even in Badminton, little England still holds there own. Only 50m people remember
In motorsport, which is the most technical of all sports, English based teams dominate the F1 championship and have the world's best F1 driver. Where is China in motorsport?
Most importantly, the British economy is 4th/5th largest in the world and London, its capital, still is the world centre for financial dealings.
With its world leading Universities the UK produces many world leading scientific and engineering innovations.
London recently votoed for a Mayor who is Muslim.
Why don't the kids play table tennis? Simple..........choice. Coming from such a strong economy and very democratic country, they have so many pursuits, sports and leisure activities etc to choose from.
TT has a lot of competition.

leatherback01
01-01-2017, 05:49 PM
IMO, Top European and English players need to stop trying to copy the Chinese in everything they do. Instead, they should play with more imagination as this seems to be what the Chinese players cant handle.
Nailed it.

Zraxel
01-01-2017, 07:15 PM
you are an amateur troll. did you vote for brexit? please pay your taxes so I can feed myself cause im a really lazy greek

That is not a nice thing to stay and I am only a kid

Raylazyfo
01-01-2017, 07:26 PM
I know that your post was meant to enrage and elicit hyper-sensitive responses but let's be calm and present some facts:
As much as you criticise English TT, you do realise that from a base of about 20k players and no professional league, England reached the quarter finals at the TT World team championship.
As for other sports, in the 2016 Olympics, team GB were second overall on the medal table. That is they whupped China thoroughly just as they do in most major sports except TT..........and maybe badminton...and maybe basketball. But even in Badminton, little England still holds there own. Only 50m people remember
In motorsport, which is the most technical of all sports, English based teams dominate the F1 championship and have the world's best F1 driver. Where is China in motorsport?
Most importantly, the British economy is 4th/5th largest in the world and London, its capital, still is the world centre for financial dealings.
With its world leading Universities the UK produces many world leading scientific and engineering innovations.
London recently votoed for a Mayor who is Muslim.
Why don't the kids play table tennis? Simple..........choice. Coming from such a strong economy and very democratic country, they have so many pursuits, sports and leisure activities etc to choose from.
TT has a lot of competition.

While I largely agree with you, I think the reason kids dont get into TT is because in the west its not advertised and generally thought of as a sport, more of a office past time. Saying kids dont get into TT because of competing sports is like saying kids dont get into snooker for the same reason.

Tony's Table Tennis
01-01-2017, 07:29 PM
That is not a nice thing to stay and I am only a kid

Then you have a lot to learn about history and you will need to experience hardship to get reward
long gone are the fairy tale days of prince charming and happily ever after - those are for babies
In the real world the ones that snooze will loose
1 million hardship will only have 1 gold medal

Chinese when they prepare for career, no matter if sport or academic, say academic they study from 8am to 4pm, and then have extra lessons to 9pm
and from there they do homework till midnight.
If they have 90%, they are scolded by parents and are forced to get closer towards 100% in order not to disgrace the family name

Now tell me, how much time do you as a kid put into academic hours?

Tony's Table Tennis
01-01-2017, 07:34 PM
While I largely agree with you, I think the reason kids dont get into TT is because in the west its not advertised and generally thought of as a sport, more of a office past time. Saying kids dont get into TT because of competing sports is like saying kids dont get into snooker for the same reason.

Yes and No
Some kids are in the sports, and they are actually doing very well.
But I guess it all ties down to support.
The player is only as good as the support structure.

I didn't see any adult/coach with Tin-Tin Ho in Cape Town,

And since you are from NZ, did you know your 3 young boys had to pay themselves to get to Cape Town
I think it was around NZD6500 a player

Falkengott
01-01-2017, 07:44 PM
Then you have a lot to learn about history and you will need to experience hardship to get reward
long gone are the fairy tale days of prince charming and happily ever after - those are for babies
In the real world the ones that snooze will loose
1 million hardship will only have 1 gold medal

Chinese when they prepare for career, no matter if sport or academic, say academic they study from 8am to 4pm, and then have extra lessons to 9pm
and from there they do homework till midnight.
If they have 90%, they are scolded by parents and are forced to get closer towards 100% in order not to disgrace the family name

Now tell me, how much time do you as a kid put into academic hours?

Yes, thats true for sure, but do u think, that this is the only way to success and that this only have advantages? In Japan and Korea, the kids have the same standard day and these both countrys have the most suicides on the world, much more then the next countries in that statistics. And there are table tennis player like Timo Boll (he was the no1) and Ovtcharov, who also lived in Germany in his childhood who became absolute world class player, without such a pressure. Of cuz they also did a lot to become so strong, but they not had these 12 hours-school-days like in some Asian countries.
And I have met and know some pupil from Japan, the Phillippines and China and they all hate their school life, they really are jealous on the European school system (which also have differences) and I dont think that their way of grow up is a good one and it cannot be the only way to be successful. Also even China is not being world class in everything and in every sports. So their school system is (in my opinion) not the big reason, why the Chinese are so strong in table tennis.
And Zraxel has not to justify, he is not responsible that his school system is not the same like the school system of China or Japan.

Tony's Table Tennis
01-01-2017, 07:57 PM
Yes, thats true for sure, but do u think, that this is the only way to success and that this only have advantages? In Japan and Korea, the kids have the same standard day and these both countrys have the most suicides on the world, much more then the next countries in that statistics. And there are table tennis player like Timo Boll (he was the no1) and Ovtcharov, who also lived in Germany in his childhood who became absolute world class player, without such a pressure. Of cuz they also did a lot to become so strong, but they not had these 12 hours-school-days like in some Asian countries.
And I have met and know some pupil from Japan, the Phillippines and China and they all hate their school life, they really are jealous on the European school system (which also have differences) and I dont think that their way of grow up is a good one and it cannot be the only way to be successful. Also even China is not being world class in everything and in every sports. So their school system is (in my opinion) not the big reason, why the Chinese are so strong in table tennis.
And Zraxel has not to justify, he is not responsible that his school system is not the same like the school system of China or Japan.

Having been in both east and west, of course one will enjoy the west
But the west is too much "ease"
Same applies for TT training.

We once had a top chinese coach here and the TT body told the coach not to train the kids hard as we are the west, our kids can't sustain the work load.

What I am trying to point out is, in the east, the parents will want the child to go through hardship when young.
In west, it is mostly spoiled, as they worry the kid works too hard.
In the east, when the coach scolds the child, the mom will ask the kid why the coach scold and then scold the child another time.
In the west, the mom will sue the coach :)

Of course in the east, heavy western influence, so a lot of this has started to change.

Now the western system imo is too ease, it needs to increase a bit, and most of this is from home culture/teachings.
Boll, Dima is only 2 people, if there are a constant 3 or 5 in this level, then we are talking.

What Zraxel and his young mind only sees that China is winning, but he doesn't see it is become England is loosing.
The problem is always within, kids need to stop looking outside for solutions, they need to start from within

TTFrenzy
01-01-2017, 07:57 PM
That is not a nice thing to stay and I am only a kid

trolling is an art. its not for kids :)

Tony's Table Tennis
01-01-2017, 08:05 PM
checking the last time england won a singles medal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Table_Tennis_Championships_medalists

I guess the question is, does England want to win another medal
Do they take 6 years old or maybe up to 8 years old and do a 10~15 year plan?

If England is not hungry for medals, then everything is all privately done
And this would have your limitations

Falkengott
01-01-2017, 08:16 PM
Having been in both east and west, of course one will enjoy the west
But the west is too much "ease"
Same applies for TT training.

We once had a top chinese coach here and the TT body told the coach not to train the kids hard as we are the west, our kids can't sustain the work load.

What I am trying to point out is, in the east, the parents will want the child to go through hardship when young.
In west, it is mostly spoiled, as they worry the kid works too hard.
In the east, when the coach scolds the child, the mom will ask the kid why the coach scold and then scold the child another time.
In the west, the mom will sue the coach :)

Of course in the east, heavy western influence, so a lot of this has started to change.

Now the western system imo is too ease, it needs to increase a bit, and most of this is from home culture/teachings.
Boll, Dima is only 2 people, if there are a constant 3 or 5 in this level, then we are talking.

What Zraxel and his young mind only sees that China is winning, but he doesn't see it is become England is loosing.
The problem is always within, kids need to stop looking outside for solutions, they need to start from within

Yeah, but u only speak about table tennis, is China the best country in every sports? Like Tennis for example? No, which continent is in the lead, there? Europe? Why? Although in Europe the school system, the way of couching, the pressure of parents arent like in China for example?
I can tell u the real reasons:
Different Sports are completely different promoted in every country. In China table tennis is the most important sports, its their best sport and so they expect the most possible success in this discipline. Thats why they put a lot of money into it. A chinese Super League player gains a lot of money. I dont know it, but I would believe if they gain as much as money than German football players in the German Bundesliga. In Germany for example, table tennis is quite successful. Normally we belong to place 2-4 with Japan and South Korea. But although of success, football, Handball, Tennis and so on are more promoted, cuz these sports are more important for the sports associations. So they put not that much money into it. This phenomen has effects on everything, of the couching conditions, of the material conditions, of strengthing the youth, developpin material and so on.
Thats also the reason why China is not world class in tennis or football, handball, cuz these sports are not so famous their and they prefer concentrating on table tennis, volleyball, badminton and so on.
But it has nothing to do with their school system.
USA also dont have such a 12 hours school day for kids, and is at least as successfull or more successful than China.

Tony's Table Tennis
01-01-2017, 08:25 PM
China in general is around 50 years behind from your europe and your usa, remember they had to rebuild a nation first. And it wasn't just WW2, but was a contant period of war from 1850~1960 basically
TT is the 1st sport it mastered

Now we are seeing swimming, athletics, tennis and a few others
The Chinese system isn't greatest, but they are forever changing and trying to improve.

From genetics point of view, Chinese does hold some disadvantage over western counterpart, thus they find other ways to compensate the differences.

Back to school, this is clear about how many hours you put in = how much result you get out.
What is your pass mark in England and Germany?
How many 90%+ do you have per grade, or how much percentage is it?
How many of your youth holds honours degree or masters degree?

I can tell, in SA, the education system is a joke, maybe 10% of kids have degrees, but then they spend 1 hours a day after school for academic and the rest of the time is fooling around

You are right about money, but will your own TT people fund a club to develop strong kids?
Germany sadly didn't really feature at WJTTC, I hope this isn't a sign that Germany is now out of the top 10?

Falkengott
01-01-2017, 08:48 PM
China in general is around 50 years behind from your europe and your usa, remember they had to rebuild a nation first. And it wasn't just WW2, but was a contant period of war from 1850~1960 basically
TT is the 1st sport it mastered

Now we are seeing swimming, athletics, tennis and a few others
The Chinese system isn't greatest, but they are forever changing and trying to improve.

From genetics point of view, Chinese does hold some disadvantage over western counterpart, thus they find other ways to compensate the differences.

Back to school, this is clear about how many hours you put in = how much result you get out.
What is your pass mark in England and Germany?
How many 90%+ do you have per grade, or how much percentage is it?
How many of your youth holds honours degree or masters degree?

I can tell, in SA, the education system is a joke, maybe 10% of kids have degrees, but then they spend 1 hours a day after school for academic and the rest of the time is fooling around

You are right about money, but will your own TT people fund a club to develop strong kids?
Germany sadly didn't really feature at WJTTC, I hope this isn't a sign that Germany is now out of the top 10?

Does only China develops themselves? I dont think so, I think everyone tries to be better and better, and its the same for the sport associations. I also love watching tennis, when I see a Federer, Nadal, Djokóvic, Murray (unnecessary to complain that this are all Europeans) always try to improve themselves. And the German football live also do a lot to improve their conditions, always. Thats not a typical Chinese way, its typical for the human being, that they want to improve and develop more and more.

I never was very strong in school and I am very happy that I had my childhood for different things, especially for living and just being a kid and although I wasnt the best pupil, I have the permission to study, if I want. I can make career in many areas. I can be as successfull as Chinese, I also can become more successfull than many Chinese and theoretical I could become world champion in something (will never happen) but I also could (have) reach(ed) it.
So, tell me why I need the school system of China, when I dont want to finish my own life with a gun? When they not really have an advantage with it. An European can reach the same things, maybe not in the same discinplines, but in different and Werner Schlager for example became world champion, cuz he used his chance of struggling Chinese.
Germany has some big talents, but of cuz, no one knows how the future will be. One day the table tennis time of Boll and Ovtcharov will be over and than I also see black, but we all dont know what will be then, maybe in 10 years Germany has the next big player. We will see :)

Tony's Table Tennis
01-01-2017, 09:09 PM
Does only China develops themselves? I dont think so, I think everyone tries to be better and better, and its the same for the sport associations. I also love watching tennis, when I see a Federer, Nadal, Djokóvic, Murray (unnecessary to complain that this are all Europeans) always try to improve themselves. And the German football live also do a lot to improve their conditions, always. Thats not a typical Chinese way, its typical for the human being, that they want to improve and develop more and more.

I never was very strong in school and I am very happy that I had my childhood for different things, especially for living and just being a kid and although I wasnt the best pupil, I have the permission to study, if I want. I can make career in many areas. I can be as successfull as Chinese, I also can become more successfull than many Chinese and theoretical I could become world champion in something (will never happen) but I also could (have) reach(ed) it.
So, tell me why I need the school system of China, when I dont want to finish my own life with a gun? When they not really have an advantage with it. An European can reach the same things, maybe not in the same discinplines, but in different and Werner Schlager for example became world champion, cuz he used his chance of struggling Chinese.
Germany has some big talents, but of cuz, no one knows how the future will be. One day the table tennis time of Boll and Ovtcharov will be over and than I also see black, but we all dont know what will be then, maybe in 10 years Germany has the next big player. We will see :)

I guess Germany is still pretty high up there as a global economy/force, so great
Now coming back to my comment with OP
He is in England

I witness with my own eyes with a branch office (in England) of my former job.
TEA TIME, sales rep phone rings, she doesn't answer it
The South African manager asks, your phone is ringing, why don't you answer it.
Sales rep replied, my tea time still has 2 more mins to go

Maybe you will argue, if the sales rep didn't finish her 2 mins to go tea, she will shoot herself with a gun lol

I think there is a massive problem with youth there:
https://realtruth.org/articles/081002-005-europe.html
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/30/britains-youth-at-risk-of-being-lost-generation-warns-equality-report

Problem is not the outsiders as I say, it is from inside

Falkengott
01-01-2017, 09:32 PM
I cannot talk a lot about the problem of England people, but its said that English people always were very relaxing and this also can have advantages. In sports for example England or GB always belongs to best countries when Olympia takes place. So, also the Britain or England people have their qualities.
In table tennis they played a world class world team championchips. I never saw the English player so strong like in that tournament. They showed there, what is possible for them. England will maybe never be a big table tennis nation, but they are strong in different disciplines.

I think its important that people dont generalize. U made ur experience with England and their people but these experience havent to mean for every England people. I think the Murrays in tennis worked and still work a lot to become and stay so strong. Or Steven Gerrard, my favorite football player when he played in Liverpool, everyone always said, that he always was a modest, ambitious, combative and hard working player and there also will be a lot of this sort of people in that country ;)

jamesmith
01-02-2017, 12:41 AM
Jealous is not good, do not insult any nation. We should learn good things from others , we know nothing is perfect, bad things we avoid , good we learn. No matter how many things we create first if we don,t know how to look after it and keep up with it, then we deserve to lose it. I am sure there are something in our house is not made in our own country. Why ???? It is because some other countries can make it better or cheaper.

jamesmith
01-02-2017, 12:44 AM
I lived in UK and worked there for 12 yrs. Played table tennis top league in London. I don,t want to mention the life of any nation, but I was shocked when I was there. From that time, I knew why Japan , China......were improving .

countrybread
01-02-2017, 01:56 AM
If you read Larry Hodges' blogs, he believes very strongly that kids in places like the USA are behind competitive nations in areas such as physical training and basics such as serve and receive.

loss
01-02-2017, 02:05 AM
interesting:rolleyes:

Tony's Table Tennis
01-02-2017, 08:16 AM
jamesmith
criticism can be good and bad
You want to hear the stuff that suite your ears or hear the truth.
Truth is ugly most of the time

If there is a problem, then the English own people need to acknowledge it before they can find a solution

It is like me reading the problem with English youth football, as they are blaming the English clubs are recruit too many foreigners. But why is it that English youth is now lower quality than foreign youth?
People should blame themselves first, then maybe they can find out what went wrong. Blaming others won't solve your own problems

Cricket is another issue as a "english invented" sport.
half the team is south african....

Falkengott
You keep mentioning past greats, how about the future greats?
Its like the Swedes with Waldner, so tell me, who or what is next. JO is great and a legend, but......

The success of English TT (I think they are doing very well) is not because of today, but because of someones input and support structure 10~15 years ago.
Like I said, Tin-Tin Ho was alone in Cape Town. This wasn't a good sign...
Did she get support to come to WJTTC or was she self funded trip like some other countries?
These are all the small problems that will cause problems with growth in a sport.

Germany had a few kids in singles/doubles, they didn't make the teams event.
But the entire German youth coaching squad was here too.

Look at some successful stories.
CCY of Taiwan, his mother single handily supported him, sold properties to fund his TT expense. Allow his son to give up 2 years of schooling to train etc. There was a lot of hardship, sacrifices and millions thrown in.

Anna of Wales is only 9 now, I think
She is already spending half a year or so in China
Reading the mom's wechat, it isn't easy for the mom.
The mom is spending a lot of money (those coaches in China arent cheap and charge by the hour)
Anna is a fighting warrior. Most 9 year old are still in a very comfortable position.

So yes, not fair to generalise, but if it is a common generalising of a fact/truth, then that is a honest problem.
I from Asia can generalise that South Africans are more lazy than Asians.
If the shop closes at 5pm, and if someone walks in at 4:59, in SA, they will say, the shop is closing, please come back tomorrow.
In Asian, they will remain open, as the hunger for business is different.
Then I hear from the SA counterparts in England that South Africans are more hungry for business, and work harder.
I only experience a few days in "working" conditions, and comparing to speed of how English people work vs foreigners there (there is so many....), I think there is a huge problem....
If I was a business owner, I want to employ more competent/speed employees than oppose to slow/lazy workers

Its like my Asian friends visiting South Africa, and I take them to the groceries.
100% of the time, they will be shocked on how slow the till operators will be.
Firstly, they are unfriendly and don't greet (its like they are caned to work there, and never smile)
Then they are so slow and really take they time (while there is a long queue)
One word - incompetent.
In Asia, those are also cheap labour jobs, but they are pride in the work, or atlease they are faking the price (or maybe they will shoot themselves with a gun lol)

Each country has it pros and cons.
And trust me, as a coach of juniors for 5 years now.
That slow/lazy till operator culture is in some of the students.
The parents are slow and lazy, and kids get taught the same.
And now the kids are 5 years older and wonder why they can't be as fast as some other players....makes you wonder

Most of the problems starts at home / Most of the success starts at home
There is only so much a coach can do
The other bit is the support structure

Archosaurus
01-02-2017, 08:37 AM
While efficiency and speed is great for improving and really pushing one's limits when it comes to sports especially, I do need to bring up one thing that came to my mind when I read Tony's post:

Knowing how people are worked to death doing crazy workdays in labor jobs, I wouldn't be so fast to judge S.Africans for being a little slow at the till. Maybe they are a bit incompetent, but is it really worth working people to death so we can get our groceries a little bit faster?

Then again, I am just human. I have never been to a S.African grocery store. Perhaps I would judge them as well if I were to visit. To be honest, I could just be naive.

Falkengott
01-02-2017, 08:40 AM
But, Sweden is the best example for big talented player, of cuz u have right after the time of Waldner and u forgot Persson there was no one but now they have some big talents like Kallberg and so on. I have seen this new generation and they have good chances to become the n01 in Europe in future.
CCY is very strong, of cuz, but many player are supported that way and only very few player can reach what the others expected from them and also Anna, she is 9 year old and unimportant how she is supported, there is not guarantee that she will be world class one day. The puberty, personal interests, injuries, private problems, all that already destroyed early million of talents.
And to generalize something is never good, I dont know how South Africans are, but also South Africa has disciplines where they are world class like Rugby, althouth they are so ''lazy''. Where is China in Rugby? Where is China in football? I mean, okay, now their clubs spending much money to get good players, but the real Chinese players are nothing more than flops. Their biggest talent of the last years moved to Wolfsburg, a middle class team of Germany and in 2 years he played one game? Why? He was nothing, and he was the biggest talent of China, how I said? So tell me, why China is so weak in a lot of sports, in Tennis there is sometimes a woman who can play a good tournament, but nornally they also win nothing in tennis. The Chinese can work hard, but like every other country they have their limits.
Its absolutely normal that every country has his own life style. And they all have strenghts and weaknesses. So, in my opinion its not the truth that China has more qualities than people from England, Germany, USA or other countries. In China they have more people and they are able to investigate more in sports, thats why they can be more successful at Olympia. But how I said, the United States always is the highest level in sports (in general) and other countries like Germany, France or GB also are successful with investigating less and with less people.
The countries in Africa have not the chance to investigate so much in sports, cuz they have quite different and more important problems!

Falkengott
01-02-2017, 08:50 AM
While efficiency and speed is great for improving and really pushing one's limits when it comes to sports especially, I do need to bring up one thing that came to my mind when I read Tony's post:

Knowing how people are worked to death doing crazy workdays in labor jobs, I wouldn't be so fast to judge S.Africans for being a little slow at the till. Maybe they are a bit incompetent, but is it really worth working people to death so we can get our groceries a little bit faster?

Then again, I am just human. I have never been to a S.African grocery store. Perhaps I would judge them as well if I were to visit. To be honest, I could just be naive.

Its what I tried to point out, countries like China, Japan, South Korea investigate much money and much time in kids, the kids have ao stand much pressure every day. They all have to be very successful and how many people are really successful later in life? One % or less? That is anything worth when a lot of people cannot stand it anymore one day and maybe kill themselves or when their bodies broke down and they have to be in clinics? Or when they have other psychic problems like depressions and so on.
Thats why I am saying, I am very lucky that I never had that life. I have no pressure, I can live how I want and I can lead an happy life and can be successful in my job without any pressure, without to high expectations, without a lost childhood.
I prefer my life the life of these Asians, when I am honest.

Tony's Table Tennis
01-02-2017, 09:34 PM
I stopped reading after
"Anna, she is 9 year old and unimportant how she is supported"

You also seem to think many people are support like CCY
In fact since CCY, no other Taiwanese has gotten even close to his support structure
the closes is 2 kids both 14 year old and already in the adult team. One of them does home schooling and trains full time.
The other just had a friend of mine coaching him at USD3000 a month for 3 months on a trot

Suga D
01-02-2017, 11:55 PM
Well, first of all, when OP wrote 'stolen' i didn't want to post, 'cause this is definitely the wrong term. For further explanation just look up your history books.



Knowing how people are worked to death doing crazy workdays in labor jobs, I wouldn't be so fast to judge S.Africans for being a little slow at the till. Maybe they are a bit incompetent, but is it really worth working people to death so we can get our groceries a little bit faster?

That's a good point you raise.


jamesmith
criticism can be good and bad
You want to hear the stuff that suite your ears or hear the truth.
Truth is ugly most of the time

There is a lot of truth in this.


If there is a problem, then the English own people need to acknowledge it before they can find a solution

People should blame themselves first, then maybe they can find out what went wrong. Blaming others won't solve your own problems

Totally agree, blaming others won't get you nowhere fast,
PLUS it cuts down your own capabilities & responsibilities and allows others to play a bigger role in your life, than they probably should.



I from Asia can generalise that South Africans are more lazy than Asians.
If the shop closes at 5pm, and if someone walks in at 4:59, in SA, they will say, the shop is closing, please come back tomorrow.
In Asian, they will remain open, as the hunger for business is different.
Then I hear from the SA counterparts in England that South Africans are more hungry for business, and work harder.
I only experience a few days in "working" conditions, and comparing to speed of how English people work vs foreigners there (there is so many....), I think there is a huge problem....
If I was a business owner, I want to employ more competent/speed employees than oppose to slow/lazy workers

Hahaha, i totally understand, but if you think this a South-African mentality problem per se, then you haven't been to Germany yet...
[Emoji6]
We even have a term for this in Germany: it's called 'Beamten-Mentalität' which could be translated as mentality of the officials.
It's pretty common that if you come into a governmental Institution a minute or five before they close it's quite likely to not get served anymore and this can happen in some stores as well.

There are many countries facing these 'motivation' problems, especially the ones with too much prosperity seem to develop and support laziness whereas poverty makes people creative and work at their limits.
It's a historical fact that decadence has been the main cause for (nearly) every fallen empire!
But FTR i don't want to complain about wealth and prosperity and enjoy every bit of it to the fullest and give thanks to the most high for that.




Its like my Asian friends visiting South Africa, and I take them to the groceries.
100% of the time, they will be shocked on how slow the till operators will be.
Firstly, they are unfriendly and don't greet (its like they are caned to work there, and never smile)
Then they are so slow and really take they time (while there is a long queue)
One word - incompetent.
In Asia, those are also cheap labour jobs, but they are pride in the work, or atlease they are faking the price (or maybe they will shoot themselves with a gun lol)

Each country has it pros and cons.
And trust me, as a coach of juniors for 5 years now.
That slow/lazy till operator culture is in some of the students.
The parents are slow and lazy, and kids get taught the same.
And now the kids are 5 years older and wonder why they can't be as fast as some other players....makes you wonder

Most of the problems starts at home / Most of the success starts at home
There is only so much a coach can do
The other bit is the support structure

I must admit that i really don't appreciate and like laziness very much, and there must have been a reason why thousands of malai and others were deported by the east-india trading companies to South-Africa,
but i think at the same time we shouldn't forget that it could play a certain role, how it is when foreigners come into your country and try to dictate Life from then on and force people to slavery labour. I believe this could have some major influence on how people think about working for the benefit of others especially without getting paid properly.

But as i said, i really don't like laziness and know quite well when you say that the parents' laziness also affect their children.
Some parents seem to totally forget what it's like being a child. Children need role models so they can follow their path. From my personal experience, most children don't learn from what others tell them but much more from what they see what others do and how they do it.

TTFrenzy
01-03-2017, 05:28 PM
I think you all have a point about laziness, but life is also about enjoying it so in a prosperous environment why try harder when you are happy with what you have got? The chinese are not the best because they train more hours, they are better because their system focuses more on quality or to be more accurate, a balance between quantity and quality that leads to "perfection"

Isnt it amazing that LGL for example never practiced his serves tons of hours for a particular serve rather he focused on variation and creativity/fantasy first. Waldner the same, he didnt just have good feeling he evolved it by trying various things

At his early age up untill his 20's probably waldner didnt have his godlike touch as we saw him afterwards. I dare to say that karakasevic had at least equal if not better feeling for the ball, winning titles is a different thing. karakasevic has the same style for 20 years JO evolved thruogh quality training and of course there is the personality/motivation/environment that comes to play a deciding factor

Zraxel
01-03-2017, 05:39 PM
Nice man

Tony's Table Tennis
01-03-2017, 05:40 PM
But LGL did do the same serves over and over again for hours :)

I guess in the west, what we need is our kids/juniors to have is self discipline.
If the coach or adult is not around, are they mature enough to self discipline themselves

My 14 year student has become more mature lately.
She is doing her own physicals (2 to 3 hours every day) and coming to ask me questions about it. She even just told me she can now do 18 double skips in a row - I am impressed.
The "lazy" one which I mentioned above is not my student but I can tell you she hasn't touch the bat in 2 months (since season ended) and if there was physical training, she somehow disappears to the bathroom very regularly.

I agree life is about enjoyment, but as a sport athletes, training is tough, its hard work, it is pain, it is long hours, it is sacrifices.

I just watched the movie "Greater", about Brandon Burlsworth.
I guess that is what I am talking about.

We lack that in today's youth.
They only want enjoyment by sitting on the couch, with junk foods and ipads/smart phones

Tony's Table Tennis
01-03-2017, 05:41 PM
Nice man

lets talk about you MR OP
How old are you
How many hours do you train

Zraxel
01-03-2017, 05:59 PM
lets talk about you MR OP
How old are you
How many hours do you train

I am 14 and I train for about 3 hours everyday on specific TT techniques. You know you don't need to explain your lectures on this post, the question after all was what can the English people can do to improve.

Tony's Table Tennis
01-03-2017, 07:51 PM
I am 14 and I train for about 3 hours everyday on specific TT techniques. You know you don't need to explain your lectures on this post, the question after all was what can the English people can do to improve.

English people is already improving......

TTFrenzy
01-03-2017, 08:41 PM
But LGL did do the same serves over and over again for hours :)

I guess in the west, what we need is our kids/juniors to have is self discipline.
If the coach or adult is not around, are they mature enough to self discipline themselves

My 14 year student has become more mature lately.
She is doing her own physicals (2 to 3 hours every day) and coming to ask me questions about it. She even just told me she can now do 18 double skips in a row - I am impressed.
The "lazy" one which I mentioned above is not my student but I can tell you she hasn't touch the bat in 2 months (since season ended) and if there was physical training, she somehow disappears to the bathroom very regularly.

I agree life is about enjoyment, but as a sport athletes, training is tough, its hard work, it is pain, it is long hours, it is sacrifices.

I just watched the movie "Greater", about Brandon Burlsworth.
I guess that is what I am talking about.

We lack that in today's youth.
They only want enjoyment by sitting on the couch, with junk foods and ipads/smart phones

well
in a translated match from jagged translates he said that he didnt practice serves almost not at all. certainly not for hours cause he didnt have to

Yecats Encerwal
01-03-2017, 08:45 PM
I know that your post was meant to enrage and elicit hyper-sensitive responses but let's be calm and present some facts:
As much as you criticise English TT, you do realise that from a base of about 20k players and no professional league, England reached the quarter finals at the TT World team championship.


Great Post! Just a small correction, they reached the Semi Finals and lost to Japan :) :)

Suga D
01-03-2017, 09:05 PM
I am 14 and I train for about 3 hours everyday on specific TT techniques.

That's a pretty good start. What you now should do is to try to visualize yourself realistically challenging your country's top players and then work towards that goal. I'll explain why, if you keep on reading...
[Emoji6]


You know you don't need to explain your lectures on this post, the question after all was what can the English people can do to improve.

Tony's answer was short but precise.


English people is already improving......

I think guys like Eli Baraty are definitely on the right path and from what i see they could definitely get a bit more support for their good work.

I also like the thought of raising the level of basement players and the general public TT understanding.
IIRC then this is at least one of the reasons that has made Sweden so succesful in the past.
Many people mostly think of Waldner and sometimes Persson, but swedish TT has had many good players like Carlsson, Lindh, Appelgren and many more, all competing nearly at the same level. That has been letting everyone of them grow.
So if we want to learn from that, it would be essential to have a number of players that can challenge your country's best players. Three top-players can't do it on their own. They need to be seriously challenged by younger upcoming players.

English Tabletennis has already created a BIG buzz. I mean a few million views on a TT-livestream is something that has broken records and is what many nations, including Germany, only could be dreaming of.

IMHO it is now necessary, to keep that buzz alive and that isn't that easy at all, but surely can be done.

Zraxel
01-04-2017, 07:14 AM
Well thanks for the advice and one more thing. What types of serves should I use in the upcoming tournaments?

TTFrenzy
01-04-2017, 02:37 PM
Well thanks for the advice and one more thing. What types of serves should I use in the upcoming tournaments?



the types of serves eacn and different opponent cant handle and if he can handle them the ones that give you even the slightest of advantage. there is no answer to that you will have to figure it out during the game

Suga D
01-04-2017, 05:27 PM
Well thanks for the advice and one more thing. What types of serves should I use in the upcoming tournaments?

I think TTFrenzy has given the ultimate answer already.
Neither we have seen you play, nor your possible opponents.
All i know is that EVERY person has his weaknesses, some more obvious others not so much, it's up to you to find them. Some might struggle with short sidespin serves others with long no-spin serves.
It is absolutely impossible to give some general advice here, except what TTFrenzy's written:


the types of serves each and different opponent cant handle and if he can handle them the ones that give you even the slightest of advantage. there is no answer to that you will have to figure it out during the game

Zraxel
01-04-2017, 05:32 PM
I think TTFrenzy has given the ultimate answer already.
Neither we have seen you play, nor your possible opponents.
All i know is that EVERY person has his weaknesses, some more obvious others not so much, it's up to you to find them. Some might struggle with short sidespin serves others with long no-spin serves.
It is absolutely impossible to give some general advice here, except what TTFrenzy's written:

Yeah you do have a point.

Falkengott
01-04-2017, 08:17 PM
But LGL did do the same serves over and over again for hours :)

I guess in the west, what we need is our kids/juniors to have is self discipline.
If the coach or adult is not around, are they mature enough to self discipline themselves

My 14 year student has become more mature lately.
She is doing her own physicals (2 to 3 hours every day) and coming to ask me questions about it. She even just told me she can now do 18 double skips in a row - I am impressed.
The "lazy" one which I mentioned above is not my student but I can tell you she hasn't touch the bat in 2 months (since season ended) and if there was physical training, she somehow disappears to the bathroom very regularly.

I agree life is about enjoyment, but as a sport athletes, training is tough, its hard work, it is pain, it is long hours, it is sacrifices.

I just watched the movie "Greater", about Brandon Burlsworth.
I guess that is what I am talking about.

We lack that in today's youth.
They only want enjoyment by sitting on the couch, with junk foods and ipads/smart phones

Thats simply not true, I work together with over 100 kids and young man, I play table tennis with many other kids and on different way I know another kids. I think I directly have to do with over 200 people between age 6 till 18. And I know 200 other people in that age. And we live in Germany, so we live ''in the west''.
Some of these kids are lazy and unmotivated, thats true, but its an absolute minority. The most kids I know are motivated in school and at least one hobby they made. Table tennist, football, tennis, dancing, and so on. Maybe no one of them will be a profession athlete, but they give their best in this hobby and in school what of cuz is more important.
And its not important how succesfull they are in their hobby, that they try their best and stay fair is the best what u can do. And I am working into a youth center in a worse part of my town and althsough many of them have no or very less role modals in their family, they try the best, cuz of internal motivation. Their life in not characterized by ''sitting on the couch, with junk foods and ipads/smart phones"
Thats why Its a pity that people to often use generalisations, cuz to generize things is never fair for the most people and only very seldom tells the truth.
Of cuz there are lazy guys in the west, lazy people all over the world exists, also in Asia, and we are talking about children. In my opinion children should have their enjoyment, everyone needs thatm especially kids.
And by the way, many tests have proved that kids dont learn best with hard coaching and pressure, the best way kids are learning something is on their own way by trying things out, and making own experiences. Adults, teacher, educator, coaches and so on are important to create a good environment for it, but ideally the child takes over the learning itself.

TTFrenzy
01-04-2017, 08:26 PM
To be fair I think tony is mostly describing the "west" phenomenon where many children and adults prefer to be couch potatoes playing games on the net/watching movies/series and not being active with their lives.

Pc games are fine and TT is fine as long as you dont neglect your personal life whatever that means. job/girlfriend/friends and being healthy. This phenomenon is also happening in korea and japan, especially japan where the people are almost bonded with technology. robots simulations etc etc

Falkengott
01-04-2017, 08:30 PM
To be fair I think tony is mostly describing the "west" phenomenon where many children and adults prefer to be couch potatoes playing games on the net/watching movies/series and not being active with their lives.

Pc games are fine and TT is fine as long as you dont neglect your personal life whatever that means. job/girlfriend/friends and being healthy. This phenomenon is also happening in korea and japan, especially japan where the people are almost bonded with technology. robots simulations etc etc

:)
Absolutely

Falkengott
01-04-2017, 08:33 PM
But it depends on the individual person how he lives his life. So its no west phenomenon to sit on the couch and only play computer games and watch films. This exists all over the world and also everywhere are people who do a lot of things actively and are motivated in a lot of things.

TTFrenzy
01-05-2017, 11:23 AM
YES thats why I wrote "west" with " " :P

Falkengott
01-07-2017, 11:48 AM
Yeah, and its not only a phenomenon of the ''west'' what I had pointed out :P