Opening Backhand flick

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Hi everyone,
I would like to hear you guys' opinion on opening backhand flick (like fan zhendong).
We consider playing right handed playing against right handed player in this discussion
I find a lot easier to flick when the opponent opens with pendular side spin serves or side under spin serves rather than to flick when he opens with reverse pendular side spin serves or side under spin.
I underastand there are a lot of factors to talk about such as timing, placement, how heavy the spin and speed of the serve. But consider these factors are similar on both serves, i still find difficulty to flick reverse pendular side spin or side under spin serves and more inconsistency in my return.
May i know you guys have similar opinions or if not how do u modify your technique to return reverse pendular side spin serves?

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However good you get with chiquita, i think its too risky against good backspin. but if its only side spin, or light backspin its possible to go for it, and its better not to hesitate and try to put as much of your own spin.

against reverse pendulum i'm not at ease as well. but i think it works if you try hitting the left side of the ball (if both you and the server are right handed). Against reverse pendulum I opt for a normal flick without sidespin (chiquita = sidespin), contacting the top of the ball, and aiming the wide FH. I try not to put too much power, but as much spin that i can. its risky because, well the opponent will hit it with his FH. But he might be surprised one or two times in between, and if there is good spin its actually not so easy for the opponent.

to do the normal flick, the backswing the head of the racket is 180 degrees facing yourself, while in chiquita is near 270 degrees , the head on the right side.

I'm rather good at block on both sides, so if the other guy tries to attack the 3rd ball hard, i'm usually ready for that.

Maybe not the kind of tactic which is usually recommended, but I'm playing regularly with a group of teens who all learnt this serve, i was suffering a lot against it, and thats the best solution i found for myself, the other being to push back if its a backspin serve. But definitely i should try the chiquita more often as well against reverse pendulum.
 
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Hi everyone,
I would like to hear you guys' opinion on opening backhand flick (like fan zhendong).
We consider playing right handed playing against right handed player in this discussion
I find a lot easier to flick when the opponent opens with pendular side spin serves or side under spin serves rather than to flick when he opens with reverse pendular side spin serves or side under spin.
I underastand there are a lot of factors to talk about such as timing, placement, how heavy the spin and speed of the serve. But consider these factors are similar on both serves, i still find difficulty to flick reverse pendular side spin or side under spin serves and more inconsistency in my return.
May i know you guys have similar opinions or if not how do u modify your technique to return reverse pendular side spin serves?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

The answer is to get someone to do that serve to you, and test hitting different points on the ball if your technique is sound. Over time, you figure something out. Takkyu had given you a good answer and it is probably as good as you can get without practice. But if you have a good technique and test ideas at the table for a few hours, the answers become more obvious. And a few more hours of training over a good period against different spins will change your brain and game for the better.
 
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Not really. More of over table than into the net



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At the beginning don't try to make the chiquita that pros do, with both a lot of spin and speed/power
I can't do that all the time, and i'm not even trying, or only if the ball is really easy.

Try to put it on the table first. Chiquita is about sidespin, so really try to take that maximum backswing (270 degrees) and brush the ball (a little) on the side to try to give max spin. If the ball is going out, try to close your bat angle a bit more.
you may want to open it because the incoming ball has a lot of backspin. But if it is such ball, i just recommend to push, not do a chiquita.
 
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Thanks Takkyu. I will try the options u mentioned. Really appreciate it

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I'm practising here on this video


as you see, i'm quite far from mastering this stroke. But I'm working on it. in the middle of the vid, the coach reminds me about taking more backswing with the wrist and it gets a bit better. We can see a glimpse of him executing the stroke correctly. He's telling me also just to push back the balls which are too difficult (placed too much on short BH side or too much backspin).
 
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Takkyu, you gotta relax that wrist man, it is way tooooooo tight. You could gain an easy 100 pts if you just relaxed it. You would miss for a couple of days/weeks but then it would all come back with more venom. It's hurting all your strokes.

Here are my two favorite advanced backhand flick videos. The second one is extremely helpful if you see and note the pattern and get it with a whippy backswing.


 
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the FZD slow motion is nice to see but the translation is really horrible. it doesn't make any sense to me...
anyway thanks for the videos...

btw my coaches say its NOT so necessary to hit the left side of the ball. Maybe its just a message to tell me not to try the flick against too difficult balls cause too risky and with the heavy backspin, the risk with the chiquita even if its on the table is to make a high ball easy to counterattack
 
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the FZD slow motion is nice to see but the translation is really horrible. it doesn't make any sense to me...
anyway thanks for the videos...

btw my coaches say its NOT so necessary to hit the left side of the ball. Maybe its just a message to tell me not to try the flick against too difficult balls cause too risky and with the heavy backspin, the risk with the chiquita even if its on the table is to make a high ball easy to counterattack

If you don't hit the left side, it becomes more like an over the table backhand loop.

What is valuable in the Fan Zhendong video is the emphasis of the shape of the backswing (which Fan Zhendong also uses on his tremendous backhand loop) and the description of the stroke as "unsheathing the sword". It gives you a motion to mimic to get the whippy feeling of the stroke.
 
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I like the flip that Tak did @ 5:05 of his video. The ball came to a different spot than he was expecting, so the turning of his wrist happened later than usual and was more in sync with the ball.

Sorry, I have a hard time explaining what I mean. But the stroke just looked relaxed and smoother because you didn't have a chance to reach the end of your backswing too early.
 
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If you don't hit the left side, it becomes more like an over the table backhand loop.

Which is perfectly fine in many situations. I actually think that against pure reverse sidespin that is the best option. Probably the only situation when it is really necessary to hit on the side is a low, heavy and short backspin ball. In this case it is the only option to "lift" it, as it is impossible to get underneath the ball.
 
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Hi everyone,
I would like to hear you guys' opinion on opening backhand flick (like fan zhendong).
We consider playing right handed playing against right handed player in this discussion
I find a lot easier to flick when the opponent opens with pendular side spin serves or side under spin serves rather than to flick when he opens with reverse pendular side spin serves or side under spin.
I underastand there are a lot of factors to talk about such as timing, placement, how heavy the spin and speed of the serve. But consider these factors are similar on both serves, i still find difficulty to flick reverse pendular side spin or side under spin serves and more inconsistency in my return.
May i know you guys have similar opinions or if not how do u modify your technique to return reverse pendular side spin serves?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

I have the same tendency. In my case, I think I am not as good at judging the amount of spin when it is in that angular direction. I think it may just require some focused practice with someone who can vary it a lot. A lot of learning is just trial and error.

I actually did some work with coach on that on Sunday. Getting my wrist really relaxed was clearly helping a lot.
 
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Lots of great responses. I think Der is right it requires a lot of practice against a number of players serves in different conditons to really get to grips with the backhand flick against different serves. I often use to much tension in my wrist during the backhand flick, i need to relax more to.

I think the backswing on the wrist is so crucial before the impact on the ball. The second important element is the timing. I also think you need to be in good position before the ball arrives. Somehow Fan Zhendong reads this so early on! :)

If the serve has to much backspin you are probably better off touching the ball short or digging it deep to the opponent.
 
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Reverse side spin from a righty to a righty is sort of the same as a normal side spin pendulum from a righty to a lefty.

As a lot of people have already said, it is probably the best that you test out hitting different parts of the ball.
The reverse side spin makes it an awkward shot because the ball is going towards your elbow.
Another thing that you can test out that I found helpful was testing out different places to stand and what direction to face, since I'm a lefty.

I generally go flip more over the ball rather than the side when I see this opposite sidespin, since the ball goes towards your elbow.
 
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