In or Out?

Definitely out! He hit the ball from outside the table and it bounced downwards. This or the table had a dent there...

Not enough frames to judge accurately but it does look very much like a side. But the umpire was closest to the action

Adam bobrow just commented on his FB account

"It was clearly out according to me and probably everyone in the stadium including the tournament referee, all of the ITTF staff, tournament staff and other players. I wanted to scream that this was the wrong call... or more specifically "Matsudaira's point!!!! It was 100% Matsudaira's point!!!!" not because I was upset at the umpire... he did his best and I think he was influenced by Liang Jingkun's reaction, but because it seemed that the umpire wasn't sure and there wasn't much of a response saying otherwise. I think even Liang Jingkun knew. It was really hard for me to stay quiet and I still feel uneasy about it."

My take is that after replaying it a few times, you can actually hear that the hit has a different sound than hitting wood only (I think it did touch the wooden side, but also the metal side, the sound is less crisp than a 100% wood hit sound). So it definitely didnt touch ONLY the upper surface of the table even like a "tangent" on a circle which is extremely rare to happen but it does happen.

The downwards trajectory is also a factor that indicates it was out

LJK definitely knows that the ball was out and then rushed to handshaking the umpire. He saw matsudaira was trying to object the decision but ignored him on purpose. ITTF definitely needs install a slow-motion camera system to monitor and help umpire making decision while allowing players to make objection. Such thing has been done by Interational Badminton Federation where not only umpire can call the computer operator to make accurate decision, players are allowed to make objection about the umpire decision and hence re-reviewing the point

It was clear that he shaked the umpire's hand after the score was flipped, which means the match's done. Nothing wrong to do that IMO. Both Umpires were pretty sure that the ball hit the edge on the side and firmly turned down Kenta's request when he's complaining.

TTFrenzy said:

Adam bobrow just commented on his FB account

"It was clearly out according to me and probably everyone in the stadium including the tournament referee, all of the ITTF staff, tournament staff and other players. I wanted to scream that this was the wrong call... or more specifically "Matsudaira's point!!!! It was 100% Matsudaira's point!!!!" not because I was upset at the umpire... he did his best and I think he was influenced by Liang Jingkun's reaction, but because it seemed that the umpire wasn't sure and there wasn't much of a response saying otherwise. I think even Liang Jingkun knew. It was really hard for me to stay quiet and I still feel uneasy about it."

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He's harsh. I would say as an official commentator it is not proper for him to use his amplified voice to influence others. In fact, how could he be 100% sure that everyone in the stadium including LJK knew it? Was he positioned exactly where the umpires and referees were? Judging from the only video we got so far, the umpire pointed to the edge of the table event before LJK's roaring, and then quickly raised his right hand to note that it was LJK's point. LJK went to shake the referee's hand only after the score was flipped. It is really unfair to judge Liang from this perspective, shame on Adam.

Ball is out. When it hit the table, it bounced to the side very quickly rather that jumping upwards a bit.

FANtasticPanda said:

He's harsh. I would say as an official commentator it is not proper for him to use his amplified voice to influence others. In fact, how could he be 100% sure that everyone in the stadium including LJK knew it? Was he positioned exactly where the umpires and referees were? Judging from the only video we got so far, the umpire pointed to the edge of the table event before LJK's roaring, and then quickly raised his right hand to note that it was LJK's point. LJK went to shake the referee's hand only after the score was flipped. It is really unfair to judge Liang from this perspective, shame on Adam.

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Relax, he didnt judge anyone. He was sure because he was watching the match up close and with many spectators around him, so he obviously disccussed it with others. As for liang jingkun he said "i think" he didnt state "im 100% sure LJK knew it was out". He even gave props to the umpire, lets not forget umpires are human beings and also make mistakes or poor judgment.

We all remember what yu ziyang did against mizutani in japan open 2014. The ball was clearly out, yu ziyang spotted that the umpire gave the point but was not 100 % sure about it and he "confirmed" it with a nod towards the umpire.

You seem to forget that bobrow is a commentator not the official voice of ITTF, if people get influeced by "amplified" voices its their own choice. He said that on his personal facebook account, and if I didnt knew that Adam was there personally I wouldnt copied/pasted his comment


the "debated" point is @ 2:58

In the slow mo, you can clearly see the umpire changing the scoreboard on mizutani's side. Then something weird happens, self doubt probably who knows only the umpire knows. Then you can see yu ziyang spotting this incident and immediately confirming that the point is his, 2 seconds before he threw the racket away in frustration to get the towel cayse he knew he missed an easy smash.

So I wouldnt find it hard to believe any possible explanation about LJK immediately celebrating. He maybe thought it was in, he maybe did it on purpose, maybe he wanted to win so much that he thought it did touch who knows. Personally i dont give much attention nor do I accuse LJK because pro tours have no significance (as I said in another post, he will still get scolded for not winning convincingly against kenta). If it was a world champ,cup or olympics I would definitely protest if I was matsudaira or his coach. Debatable points should have a replay.

Samsonov and persson actually agreed to replay a point in 2008 olympics which was a fantastic moments they didnt give a shit about what the umpires were saying (chinese crowed also booed, so u can see how umpires get affected also). overriding the existing rules. ITTF should have introduced a new rule long ago. the umpire with the help of replay and after a debatable edge point should decide if the point will be replayed or not

Ending, my point is that if people reacted more, spectators/coaches then maybe the umpires would have think it over more thoroughly. We definitely need a new rule.

point is @ 6:44

FANtasticPanda said:

He's harsh. I would say as an official commentator it is not proper for him to use his amplified voice to influence others. In fact, how could he be 100% sure that everyone in the stadium including LJK knew it? Was he positioned exactly where the umpires and referees were? Judging from the only video we got so far, the umpire pointed to the edge of the table event before LJK's roaring, and then quickly raised his right hand to note that it was LJK's point. LJK went to shake the referee's hand only after the score was flipped. It is really unfair to judge Liang from this perspective, shame on Adam.

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The reason why he spoke is because he's actually a player before a commentator, a decent one (USATT 2100) as well. An edge ball doesn't look like that, especially when it hits the side, not the back.

Do you think LJK doesn't know that? Even club players can spot that, how can he a CNT player failed to spot it. If you are trying to say that LJK isn't at fault or the ball actually hit the edge, I wouldn't hesitate to call you either a CNT fanboy or failing to understand table tennis

One thing is bad for sure, the umpire does not care about who's point is. They just follow the players reaction. I just Wonder why do we need umpires if the work like this.

Really shitty way to lost match. Matsudaira played very good. From this camera for me rather " out ".

Sali said:

One thing is bad for sure, the umpire does not care about who's point is. They just follow the players reaction. I just Wonder why do we need umpires if the work like this.

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+1 I saw many times the umpires didn't know what happened and just followed the players' reaction, I mean not just this match. Sometimes net serves and edge balls are really hard to see for human eyes.
But really, if they were not sure about the edge ball, they should have considered both players' reaction instead of only LJK's. I noticed Matsudaira celebrated the point as well. If they are still not sure, they should ask the players, if the players can't come to agreement, then replay the point. For me, that is a better solution instead of "guessing" and "following".

My first reaction was it was a side. Obviously LJK was eager to put the match and a super-close win behind him so out went sportsmanship. The referee took the path of least resistance and awarded the point to LJK. What a farce....

Having a look again on my big screen, I now realise that the camera's point of view is from a really high angle, so the trajectory of the ball compared to the table is not clear. The only person that had a good view, other than the players, was the umpire. His decision was immediate which means that he was pretty sure about what happened.

Very poor sportsmanship on Liang Jingkun's part.

Out! It goes way too fast to the floor.
Too bad of an ending after such a great rally and fight from Matsudaira to save the match ball

this was out and ovtcharovs ball from today was in