how to return top side spin ball serve (illustration)

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Hi

Pls see the illustration, when my opponent serve spinning ball to my side, the ball usually will land on the table and then "swing" to right side (green color).

When is the best timing to hit the ball (upon bounce up?) if i want to attack back?
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Take a step to the right, quickly brush it over the top with your backhand towards the less aggressive side of your opponent (Unless you are prepared/want a fast answer. Usually people doing those serves are good at hitting/slapping/flicking/whatever the ball over the table). It's more annoying to me personally if it goes short on the far right side. Requires good flexibility in your wrist to take it, especially if you want to put it on their backhand side (with them being righthanded).
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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It is interesting. I see some answers that give a way of returning side top. But I don't see the principle, the idea behind how you approach the ball.

For this you need to know which sidespin; which way the ball is curving; and which side of the ball is the inside of the spin (where the spin will have the least effect on you).

So, for a ball that is curbing towards your FH, (reverse pendulum, or hook or BH) for the easiest time with your shot you want to contact the ball on the inside of the spin which is the BH side of the ball.

With a ball curving towards your BH side (regular pendulum spin), you will also want to contact the inside of the spin for the easiest way of handling the ball.

If you are good and you really know what you are doing you could contact the outside of the ball (where the spin will have the biggest effect) and use the spin to your advantage.

Recently, getting to train with Mark Croitoroo who is learning to play lefty as a result of an injury to his right shoulder, I have been able to see some totally crazy returns. He does some stuff that looks like penhold punch block returns that are utterly nasty. It doesn't matter if the ball is top or backspin, he will adjust the blade angle according to the spin and do these evil returns. He will go will contact the inside of the ball and slide his racket against the spin and forward and, with very little effort, he will launch a rocket taking the sidespin and giving back the nastiest junk ball imaginable. Or he will drop the heaviest top/side balls short by sliding down and in against the sidespin. Or he will hook the ball forward contacting the outside of the ball and get crazy sidespin because he is taking the sidespin of the serve and adding to it.

But that is much harder and takes much more technique. However, the other returns require you read the spin accurately.

For instance, to drop the top side ball short, you need to be on the inside of the spin and you need to slide down and in. Or you could slide straight in. Can't describe the motions. And I can do it in practice when I know what is coming. But in game situations, I will mess that up.

For heavy back/side, you have to be almost straight under the ball and slide inward if you want to drop it short. But there are other ways to push it long. And if you are inside the spin, topspinning these is possible too.

But those nasty punch shots that give those ugly junk balls seem cool as heck to me.

Anyway, the key to returning any serve is reading the spin correctly. And if you do this, there are always many ways to return any serve.


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says Spin and more spin.
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Hi Carl ,
Thanks for the detailed instructions. What you mean by contact the ball "inside of the spin" ?


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I think I described it in my post. If the sidespin causes the ball to curve towards FH side the inside of the spin is the BH side of the ball.

Say we are talking about a right handed player his FH side is the right side. If the ball is curving towards the right, the inside of the ball is the left side. The outside of the ball is the right side. For more power in a loop, you usually want to contact the outside of the ball.

But if a serve has sidespin that causes it to curve to the right, it is much easier to make a return while contacting the inside of the ball which is where the sidespin has the least effect on you.

To return that spin with FH, You have to have your wrist in an awkward position so that your blade face is facing out towards the FH side to contact inside the spin. So it takes some practice.

If that same sidespin goes to you BH it is much easier to return. The position for the racket for BH would be much more natural.

However, these returns become more easy with practice.


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Maybe I will describe it another way.

When the ball is heavy backspin, without gravity, that ball would curve up and you contact under the ball with the racket facing up.

When the ball is heavy topspin, the ball curve's down, and you contact the top of the ball with the racket facing down.

For sidespin, you can do the same thing, except the ball curves to the left or right instead of up or down.

If the sidespin curves to the left, and you contact the right side of the ball, it will go forward.

If the sidespin curves towards the right and you contact the left side of the ball, it will go forward.

If it is top side curving left, you angle the racket down the amount for the topspin and on the right side of the ball. If backspin it would face up and on the right side of the ball.

Does that make sense.


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Maybe I will describe it another way.

When the ball is heavy backspin, without gravity, that ball would curve up and you contact under the ball with the racket facing up.

When the ball is heavy topspin, the ball curve's down, and you contact the top of the ball with the racket facing down.

For sidespin, you can do the same thing, except the ball curves to the left or right instead of up or down.

If the sidespin curves to the left, and you contact the right side of the ball, it will go forward.

If the sidespin curves towards the right and you contact the left side of the ball, it will go forward.

If it is top side curving left, you angle the racket down the amount for the topspin and on the right side of the ball. If backspin it would face up and on the right side of the ball.

Does that make sense.


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Easier to digest it now [emoji16]


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@UpSideDownCarl

Left and right being relative from us, the viewer, right?

The way I've understood it is that when I contact a sidespin serve, it wants to go towards a rightie's backhand. When I contact a reverse sidespin serve, it goes to their forehand.

So, I just aim towards the forehand for a sidespin serve, and towards the backhand for a reverse sidespin serve.

The reason for this is because the ball bounces away from the direction it "hits" the racket from due to the spin. Like how topspin curves the ball downwards, but goes up once it hits the paddle.
 
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@UpSideDownCarl

Left and right being relative from us, the viewer, right?

The way I've understood it is that when I contact a sidespin serve, it wants to go towards a rightie's backhand. When I contact a reverse sidespin serve, it goes to their forehand.

So, I just aim towards the forehand for a sidespin serve, and towards the backhand for a reverse sidespin serve.

The reason for this is because the ball bounces away from the direction it "hits" the racket from due to the spin. Like how topspin curves the ball downwards, but goes up once it hits the paddle.

As I described it, was based on the person receiving the serve. A sidespin that is curving towards my FH should be self explanatory.

If I said I am contacting a ball that is curving towards my right on the left side of the ball, am I contacting the left side of the ball from the OPPONENT's perspective?

The flaw with how you are describing it is, you can't aim the ball where you want. If you contact the inside of the spin you can aim the ball anywhere you want. If you receive a serve with sidespin that is curving towards your FH on the inside of the ball, you can aim it wherever you want because you are contacting the ball on the side of the ball where the spin allows you to control the ball.

Just like with a push, to don't have to aim up to get the ball to go over the net. And when someone loops heavy, if you brush over the top of the ball, you just aim forward. You don't have to try to push the ball down.

When someone gives you seriously heavy sidespin, if you just aim for the other side of the table, it won't always work.


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Explain the diagram. Is orange a reverse pendulum or hook type serve?

Is that supposed to be a racket?

Is the white line the return from the contact of the racket?

If that is what that diagram is then sort of. Just draw the racket at a bigger angle so the face that contacts the ball is facing more towards the FH side. Maybe 45-degrees or more depending on how much side spin.

And if you have a decent imagination, you can see why that angle is easier to achieve with the BH than the FH. You have to get your wrist all the way back to get the kind of angle I am talking about with the FH.

But if you do, you can do whatever you want to that sidespin.


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You understood the diagram. Orange is the serve, and it's reverse pendulum. Or something like a machine feeding pure sidespin.

Say you receive some super heavy sidespin and you theoretically want it to hit the middle of the table roughly. Would the return be something like this? If so, I can easily see why it's a bit more convenient to use the backhand.

OdrWOth.jpg
 
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