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TableTennisDaily
03-30-2017, 08:54 AM
Dimitirj Ovtcharov announces huge game changer! Today on Instagram Dimitrij Ovtcharov made a status to say he is very happy with the new ball DHS rolled out recently, the DHS ABS.

In a status Dimitrij Ovtcharov expressed, I am currently practicing with the new DHS ABS ball for the upcoming World Tour events and it's going great. Have you heard about it? It jumps regularly and its very hard and round. This is a huge improvement for plastic balls to what we have been using latel where they break often. Donic will also start to have the same quality as the ABS balls in a few weeks. A great step for improving table tennis!

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UpSideDownCarl
03-30-2017, 09:22 AM
Dimitirj Ovtcharov announces huge game changer! Today on Instagram Dimitrij Ovtcharov made a status to say he is very happy with the new ball DHS rolled out recently, the DHS ABS.

In a status Dimitrij Ovtcharov expressed, I am currently practicing with the new DHS ABS ball for the upcoming World Tour events and it's going great. Have you heard about it? It jumps regularly and its very hard and round. This is a huge improvement for plastic balls to what we have been using latel where they break often. DOnic will also start to have the same quality as the ABS balls in a few weeks. A great step for improving table tennis!

Link here: https://www.instagram.com/p/BSQL93RDqE6/?taken-by=dimaovtcharov

I think Baal got there first. He reviewed this ball a few weeks ago. I think this will be a big thing for Poly ball TT. I think Baal even said he liked this ball better than the Nittaku Premium.

XO21
03-30-2017, 09:55 AM
Great news!

I bought a batch of these after reading Baal's review and they are very impressive, up there with Nittaku Premium for sure. The problem I've had is that nobody want's to try them out over the Xushaofa and Butterfly 40+ balls that are used in the local leagues.

Hopefully this endorsement will raise the profile and kill off the bad reviews the earlier batches had.

AndySmith
03-30-2017, 10:12 AM
Great ball, but adds another wrinkle to the ball zoo. I wish leagues would have the foresight to standardise on the type of ball, because the ITTF don't seem that bothered that there are so many different types of ball floating around at the moment. I like the D40+, seamless, and NP40+ while really disliking the original DHS ball and G40+, but I'd take using any of them consistently each week instead of changing all the time.

Fabian
03-30-2017, 11:04 AM
Great ball, but adds another wrinkle to the ball zoo. I wish leagues would have the foresight to standardise on the type of ball, because the ITTF don't seem that bothered that there are so many different types of ball floating around at the moment. I like the D40+, seamless, and NP40+ while really disliking the original DHS ball and G40+, but I'd take using any of them consistently each week instead of changing all the time.

Actually there are not that many balls on the market.

Seamless (all made by same factory)
First generation DHS (DHS 40+, and many rebranded like Andro, Donic etc)
New Generation DHS D40+ (will be sold rebranded too starting in a few weeks)
Butterfly G40+ (sucks)
Nittaku Premium 40+

So the old DHS will leave the market soon, so we will have 4 types of balls of which 2 are very similar (D40+ and NP+). Maybe Butterfly will also change later, they ball sucks.

UpSideDownCarl
03-30-2017, 11:42 AM
Actually there are not that many balls on the market.

Seamless (all made by same factory)
First generation DHS (DHS 40+, and many rebranded like Andro, Donic etc)
New Generation DHS D40+ (will be sold rebranded too starting in a few weeks)
Butterfly G40+ (sucks)
Nittaku Premium 40+

So the old DHS will leave the market soon, so we will have 4 types of balls of which 2 are very similar (D40+ and NP+). Maybe Butterfly will also change later, they ball sucks.

What about Double Fish? Did the Double Fish factory stop making bad balls that are 3 star rated?

AndySmith
03-30-2017, 12:11 PM
Actually there are not that many balls on the market.

Seamless (all made by same factory)
First generation DHS (DHS 40+, and many rebranded like Andro, Donic etc)
New Generation DHS D40+ (will be sold rebranded too starting in a few weeks)
Butterfly G40+ (sucks)
Nittaku Premium 40+

So the old DHS will leave the market soon, so we will have 4 types of balls of which 2 are very similar (D40+ and NP+). Maybe Butterfly will also change later, they ball sucks.

Sure, not that many balls on the market. What?

Eventually the first-gen DHS balls will self-destruct (shouldn't take too long). But in the meantime, I can turn up to an away match and any of these 5 ball types could be used, with no prior warning. And they're all different enough to require adjustment time.

The point being, of course, that we currently have 5 types of ball which use quite different material and manufacturing processes. Whereas in the past we had only subtle variation in celluloid balls. Plus an orange option! Even with decent plastic balls on the market now, we are still a long way from the convenience and consistency of the celluloid era.

TTHopeful
03-30-2017, 12:17 PM
Butterfly have their own factory for G40 balls? I need to try this ABS ball. I struggle with the other ones.

Fabian
03-30-2017, 12:19 PM
Okay well I think no one in Germany uses them, have never seen them. Here everyone plays (if using plastic) with DHS rebranded (the shitty ones) and will change (without realizing it) to the new D40+ rebranded ones. A few use Nittaku and very few use seamless but that's just a minority, negligible. So 95% of the balls you will use here will be the new DHS or the Nittaku soon, which are similar anyway. I understand that might be different in the US/UK.


Butterfly have their own factory for G40 balls? I need to try this ABS ball. I struggle with the other ones.

Yes and it sucks, it's made in Germany by a company called Weener

trappedinwales
03-30-2017, 01:35 PM
Do we have a link to anywhere to buy the new DHS ABS ball for testing? Preferably UK or Europe. I had a quick google but couldn't see anything obvious.

NextLevel
03-30-2017, 01:38 PM
Sure, not that many balls on the market. What?

Eventually the first-gen DHS balls will self-destruct (shouldn't take too long). But in the meantime, I can turn up to an away match and any of these 5 ball types could be used, with no prior warning. And they're all different enough to require adjustment time.

The point being, of course, that we currently have 5 types of ball which use quite different material and manufacturing processes. Whereas in the past we had only subtle variation in celluloid balls. Plus an orange option! Even with decent plastic balls on the market now, we are still a long way from the convenience and consistency of the celluloid era.

Prices will exterminate the other balls. These balls are as cheap as 55 cents per ball.

Fabian
03-30-2017, 01:39 PM
http://ttnpp.com/store/3-stars/868-dhs-new-material-cell-free-dual-40-d40-3-stars-ball-39.html

I ordered there, took a week or so.

trappedinwales
03-30-2017, 01:41 PM
perfect, thanks.

AndySmith
03-30-2017, 01:51 PM
Prices will exterminate the other balls. These balls are as cheap as 55 cents per ball.

Two things - will the price stay that low (and subquestion - will the rebranded ones be as low?), and it might take a looong time if clubs have purchased bulk loads of other balls (we got 144 seamless several years ago and still have 2/3 left).

But hopefully!

Suga D
03-30-2017, 02:08 PM
Okay well I think no one in Germany uses them, have never seen them. Here everyone plays (if using plastic) with DHS rebranded (the shitty ones) and will change (without realizing it) to the new D40+ rebranded ones. A few use Nittaku and very few use seamless but that's just a minority, negligible. So 95% of the balls you will use here will be the new DHS or the Nittaku soon, which are similar anyway. I understand that might be different in the US/UK.



Yes and it sucks, it's made in Germany by a company called Weener


I can't agree. Our club still uses the same bag of balls i've ordered last year and i guess it's still about 120 left from a box of 144.
I haven't heard many complaints about them except for the weird sound they make.

NextLevel
03-30-2017, 02:25 PM
Two things - will the price stay that low (and subquestion - will the rebranded ones be as low?), and it might take a looong time if clubs have purchased bulk loads of other balls (we got 144 seamless several years ago and still have 2/3 left).

But hopefully!

I think so. China has managed to reduce the cost of many thing - TT Balls are no exception, and they didn't come up with the intellectual property for this. The re-branded ones will be close enough - V40 is cheaper for example, and I expect others to be more expensive but close. And once the pros use them, they won't want to use other stuff and what the pros and tournaments use tends to drive a lot of stuff. DHS balls would have won out but lost because of price and quality the first time round. It's not the case this time.

Baal
03-30-2017, 03:00 PM
We've had a thread on this for awhile here. TT11 says they will be selling the D40+ balls in April. Soon it will be obvious to nearly everyone that this is a good ball.

Some will continue to complain and demand celluloid balls. Or 38 mm. Or whatever.

Anyway Dima's endorsement will put to rest a lot of aggressive comments I was getting at two other forums (not here) where some implied that I simply must not be a good player if I am endorsing these balls because you can't spin them and pros will hate them.

Baal
03-30-2017, 03:08 PM
Some other things about this ball. It it pretty much unbreakable. It is 2.76 grams (0.08 g heavier than Nittaku, about same as seamless). Otherwise plays like a Nittaku, since made of same material. Dusty. Very inexpensive. Very round. Bounce height identical to celluloid and Nittaku, slightly lower than seamless, quite a bit higher than cellulose acetate 40+.Easy to transition between D40+ and Nittaku, actually takes awhile to learn to discern the difference. They don't play exactly identically, but so close that it doesnt really matter much.

NextLevel
03-30-2017, 03:10 PM
We've had a thread on this for awhile here. Tt11 says they will be selling the D40+ balls in April. Soon it will be obvious to nearly everyone that this is a good ball.

Some will continue to complain and demand celluloid balls. Or 38 mm. Or whatever.

Anyway Dima's endorsement will put to rest a lot of aggressive comments I was getting at two other forums (not here) where some implied that I simply must not be a good player if I am endorsing these balls because you can't spin them and pros will hate them.

Baal, you hit with Kewei Li, Viktor Subonj and Niraj Oak at your club. They also gave their opinions. Does it require Dima to show how silly those guys are? Guys who have never shown video on how they play yet repeatedly make silly statements not worth discussing?

NextLevel
03-30-2017, 03:11 PM
Some other things about this ball. It it pretty much unbreakable. It is 2.76 grams (0.08 g heavier than Nittaku, about same as seamless). Otherwise plays like a Nittaku, since made of same material. Dusty. Very inexpensive. Very round. Bounce height identical to celluloid and Nittaku, slightly lower than seamless, quite a bit higher than cellulose acetate 40+.Easy to transition between D40+ and Nittaku, actually takes awhile to learn to discern the difference. They don't play exactly identically, but so close that it doesnt really matter much.

The unbreakability is underestimated. It is really going to change the game.

Archosaurus
03-30-2017, 03:18 PM
If it really is unbreakable from just hitting around, then I can see a benefit in long-term use but also the fact that it just doesn't change it's characteristics in the short term whatsoever, probably.

I'm not sure if more fragile balls do, but I can imagine that it would have an effect on play if the bounce and give of the ball changes during a timespan of, say, 15 minutes.

Baal
03-30-2017, 03:21 PM
Baal, you hit with Kewei Li, Viktor Subonj and Niraj Oak at your club. They also gave their opinions. Does it require Dima to show how silly those guys are? Guys who have never shown video on how they play yet repeatedly make silly statements not worth discussing?

I haven't seen Niraj in quite awhile but yes, Coach Li and Viktor think it's a really good ball (as do every other single human at my club who has tried them). For those who don't know, Li Kewai is a modern defender (pretty much a clone of JSH) who was around 2750 when he first arrived in the US a few years back. He mostly coaches now. Viktor was right around 2600 at his top rating and is kind of a left-handed version of Zoran Primorac and loves to hit arcy ridiculously spinny loops with a wide range of speeds. I couldn't get Jimmy Butler to try it yet (he's a big fan of seamless balls, actually, the higher bounce lets him attack with his backhand more, and he likes they way they decelerate when he gets back away from the table more).

I knew from the first minute it was fine. But yes, I think I did let some of those comments annoy me too much (especially some that were on one website where just about everyone like LPs and $10 rubbers and where people were nevertheless concerned that this ball wouldn't spin enough for them).

Baal
03-30-2017, 03:23 PM
If it really is unbreakable from just hitting around, then I can see a benefit in long-term use but also the fact that it just doesn't change it's characteristics in the short term whatsoever, probably.

I'm not sure if more fragile balls do, but I can imagine that it would have an effect on play if the bounce and give of the ball changes during a timespan of, say, 15 minutes.

Arch, that is a really good point. Balls can become unplayable without breaking if they get too smooth (G40+ are too smooth from the start), or dented, or out of round. And this D40+ ball is a complete game changer on that front, even compared to seamless balls. It's not just that it doesn't break, it stays good for a long time.

Archosaurus
03-30-2017, 03:24 PM
Baal, how did the animals at your club like the ball? For a fair comparison, we'd need a fair survey as well.






:rolleyes:

NextLevel
03-30-2017, 03:26 PM
I haven't seen Niraj in quite awhile but yes, Coach Li and Viktor think it's a really good ball (as do every other single human at my club who has tried them). For those who don't know, Li Kewai is a modern defender (pretty much a clone of JSH) who was around 2750 when he first arrived in the US a few years back. He mostly coaches now. Viktor was right around 2600 at his top rating and is kind of a left-handed version of Zoran Primorac and loves to hit arcy ridiculously spinny loops with a wide range of speeds. I couldn't get Jimmy Butler to try it yet (he's a big fan of seamless balls, actually, the higher bounce lets him attack with his backhand more, and he likes they way they decelerate when he gets back away from the table more).

I knew from the first minute it was fine. But yes, I think I did let some of those comments annoy me too much (especially some that were on one website where just about everyone like LPs and $10 rubbers and where people were nevertheless concerned that this ball wouldn't spin enough for them).

Kewei Li is one of the few players in NA who has actually beaten Eugene (Zhen) Wang of Canada in a match.

LPs rely on unpredictability and unfamiliarity so anything that contributes to that is appreciated. I just want a ball that plays consistently. Lower bounce helps my serve but the other unpredictable stuff puts my rally game in the tank. I hit the ball hard enough that after 10 minutes, if it can wobble, it will wobble.

Xylit
03-30-2017, 03:46 PM
Is DHS (or any other company) really interested in selling a ball that is nearly unbreakable?

NextLevel
03-30-2017, 03:54 PM
Is DHS (or any other company) really interested in selling a ball that is nearly unbreakable?

They can reduce the quality after Weikert wins reelection.

UpSideDownCarl
03-30-2017, 04:40 PM
Is DHS (or any other company) really interested in selling a ball that is nearly unbreakable?


They can reduce the quality after Weikert wins reelection.

I was thinking it may be accidental that they are very durable. Nevertheless, they may not break but if you use them long enough, I have a feeling they do stop being so good to use.

That being said, NextLevel is correct. They could reduce the quality after the presidential election. Hahahaha.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Fabian
03-30-2017, 05:02 PM
There are still enough people that will step on them ;)

Archosaurus
03-30-2017, 05:11 PM
They could just increase the price.





Oh shit, now I've done it.

Xylit
03-30-2017, 05:14 PM
They could just increase the price.
Nothing wrong with that if they are really extremely durable.

Archosaurus
03-30-2017, 05:28 PM
Nothing wrong with that if they are really extremely durable.
Yeah, so if all of the other costs are the same or even less, then you think they should shit on the consumer and over-price their product?

Murre5
03-30-2017, 06:19 PM
So will the new marking on the balls be D40+?

Zaid323918
03-30-2017, 06:21 PM
So will the new marking on the balls be D40+?
yup the old DHS 40+ is being discontinued

Murre5
03-30-2017, 06:24 PM
So weird when I press reply to post I can't use space when I type?:)

Anyway I meant on all the balls. I understand DHS marks them like that. But just to know what to look for if you want to see its one of the new balls (Donic, Stiga etc). As it seems like a new material standard?

Zaid323918
03-30-2017, 06:28 PM
So weird when I press reply to post I can't use space when I type?:)

Anyway I meant on all the balls. I understand DHS marks them like that. But just to know what to look for if you want to see its one of the new balls (Donic, Stiga etc). As it seems like a new material standard?

That I don't know. Who knows maybe DHS won't allow other brands to take the D40+ and put their logo on it. Still as a consumer if we can buy the D40+ and it's not badly priced why bother with other brands. But if DHS does allow it'll probably be called stiga D40+ or Andro D40+ or something.

AndySmith
03-30-2017, 06:29 PM
No, the rebranded ones will likely have a different name. Stiga look to be calling theirs "Perform 40+", for example, and Donic are going with P40+.

Zaid323918
03-30-2017, 06:30 PM
No, the rebranded ones will likely have a different name. Stigma looks to be calling theirs "Perform 40+", for example.

So that perform 40+ is a D40+ clone right?

AndySmith
03-30-2017, 06:31 PM
So that perform 40+ is a D40+ clone right?

Looks that way. It got added to the approved ball list in the last few weeks. I would be amazed if it was a different seamed ball.

Olio
03-31-2017, 02:23 PM
Getting more consistency and cheaper prices is good. But when are we going to get the levels of spin we had with the Cball? If ever?
THAT is a game changer. When people stop murdering a loaded backspin serve...

Baal
03-31-2017, 04:51 PM
But when are we going to get the levels of spin we had with the Cball? If ever?
THAT is a game changer. When people stop murdering a loaded backspin serve...

Never. Easy answer.

The reason is the slightly larger diameter (and with it the weight) of the 40+ ball compared to celluloid. It is just the physics of the thing. And you are right, it has definitely made it a lot easier to attack even very short serves, especially with the newest plastic balls that bounce higher (exactly the same as celluloid, now). Server has less of an advantage now than at any time in last 25 years.

By the way, that quite clearly was ITTF intention all along, even though they will never admit it. The switch to plastic away from celluloid was justified to players on the basis of issues surrounding celluloid production.

But ITTF could have left in place the ball size allowances for what they would approve (in which most 40 mm balls were actually only a little over 39 mm, whereas now they are all over 40, often between 40.1 and 40.5 mm). Most of the plastic balls now are around 2.76 grams (one very notable exception is Nittaku Premium, which is 2.68 grams). Nearly all of the celluloid balls were around 2.65 -2.68 grams. From those simple facts about size and weight, the 40+ balls will not spin as much as celluloid.

This is our new reality. We have to adapt to it.

Suga D
03-31-2017, 06:24 PM
This is our new reality. We have to adapt to it.

Nah.
Maybe let's hope for Saive. Not saying he's the messiah, but he could turn things back again.
Because if a rule change was proven to be needless or wrong, it MUST be taken back IMHO.

Baal
03-31-2017, 06:47 PM
Nah.
Maybe let's hope for Saive. Not saying he's the messiah, but he could turn things back again.
Because if a rule change was proven to be needless or wrong, it MUST be taken back IMHO.

Not after the companies have invested that much into developing and producing these new plastic balls. What, now they are going to be told, "sorry, false alarm"??

Actually the concern about celluloid production was legitimate. It is a dangerous material, there were deadly fires in factories and Chinese lives matter. (Factory workers). The so called "impending halt of celluloid production" that Sharara talked about may have been distinctly exaggerated, but there is no question that the ball companies no longer wish to be in the business of producing celluloid balls. Now that they now longer need to, they will stop, no matter what ITTF says.

The only thing that could conceivably happen is that ITTF would allow these new balls to return to the previous 39.3 mm size. The increase size and weight was something ITTF wanted because they like the results in terms of resulting play. I think they probably like it that servers no longer have such a big advantage. It is a feature, not a bug. But again, now that ball factories are settled into how to make a decent ball in a particular size range, they don't want to have to be made to go back and again refine their production methods. And in general players like Dima are happy with the new ABS balls. I like them. Most people like them. I suspect Saive likes them.

We have to adapt. Saive or Weikert or the Tooth Fairy, it's not going back. The idea that an international sports federation that answers to no one except themselves HAS to go back? Nope. Plus, will Saive even win?

waldner92
03-31-2017, 09:45 PM
I suppose this ball is the same one Liu Guoliang talked about here? https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/f...-Plastic-Ball! (https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/content.php?1111-Liu-Guoliang-s-Impressions-On-The-New-2017-DHS-Plastic-Ball!)

If so, i think it's good to have cheap quality balls, but increasing speed while decreasing spin doesn't convince me at all... Is this ball really going to produce less spin?? Based on what some of you said here, it is quite similar to Nittaku's ball, so I'm quite confused right now. Anyway, I'm willing to try it in my club.

suds79
04-18-2017, 04:56 PM
Getting more consistency and cheaper prices is good. But when are we going to get the levels of spin we had with the Cball? If ever?
THAT is a game changer. When people stop murdering a loaded backspin serve...

I think it's fair to point out that the new ball is bigger. Lets say material never changed and we still had celluloid. Even in that case the spin would be slightly decreased because of the ball size.

So to answer your question if we are ever going to get to the level of spin as it was before? It's never.

However I don't think for the 99.9% of us who are not pros this is such a huge difference.

Suga D
04-18-2017, 05:17 PM
Not after the companies have invested that much into developing and producing these new plastic balls. What, now they are going to be told, "sorry, false alarm"??

Actually the concern about celluloid production was legitimate. It is a dangerous material, there were deadly fires in factories and Chinese lives matter. (Factory workers). The so called "impending halt of celluloid production" that Sharara talked about may have been distinctly exaggerated, but there is no question that the ball companies no longer wish to be in the business of producing celluloid balls. Now that they now longer need to, they will stop, no matter what ITTF says.

The only thing that could conceivably happen is that ITTF would allow these new balls to return to the previous 39.3 mm size. The increase size and weight was something ITTF wanted because they like the results in terms of resulting play. I think they probably like it that servers no longer have such a big advantage. It is a feature, not a bug. But again, now that ball factories are settled into how to make a decent ball in a particular size range, they don't want to have to be made to go back and again refine their production methods. And in general players like Dima are happy with the new ABS balls. I like them. Most people like them. I suspect Saive likes them.

We have to adapt. Saive or Weikert or the Tooth Fairy, it's not going back. The idea that an international sports federation that answers to no one except themselves HAS to go back? Nope. Plus, will Saive even win?

Maybe you´re right, i don´t know. My money tells me that as long people are buying them (C-Balls), factories will keep makin ´em. We shall see. And wouldn´t a change back to 40mm or even 38mm(cell-free) also mean they could even make MOARR money? Just a thought [Emoji6]

TTHopeful
04-18-2017, 11:42 PM
I think plastic causes more injury on players

CroneOne
06-26-2017, 01:05 AM
Seemed like Ovtcharov didn't like the balls at the China Open. Which ball were they using?

yourock
06-26-2017, 04:04 AM
Seemed like Ovtcharov didn't like the balls at the China Open. Which ball were they using?

Why did you think Ovtcharov didn't like the balls at China open? Photo or quote from him saying so?

Ovtcharov seems to be sponsored by Donic, and Donic has some sort of close relation with DHS. This should also contribute to why he said what he said about D40+
( not clear, simply gossip)