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ttmonster
04-15-2017, 06:42 PM
Oh ! then we are on the same page , I have made it a practice to never play with those balls , even the XuShafa's are too much for me ...

ping fun
04-15-2017, 06:52 PM
I finally found some video of the 4th and 5th set ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfttIdLUUUg

Any idea why ZJK was so pumped up after beating up Lin ? Is there some backstory to it ?

BTW, also saw that they are icing ZJK's left leg immediately after the match , if you watch the video till the end ...

Yeah he had problem during the game :

12785

12786

12787

12788

NextLevel
04-15-2017, 06:55 PM
Oh ! then we are on the same page , I have made it a practice to never play with those balls , even the XuShafa's are too much for me ...

I could play with the Xu Shaofa, I even had decent results with the Dfish egg. I just hated the DHS egg and its clones. I mean don't get me wrong, I may come to rue the loss of spin, but I am a heavy spin player by nature, I left equipment with more spin to use equipment with more control because I didn't think I was getting an advantage from having extra spinny equipment any more, especially on defence when blocking. So I may not be the right person to speak about loss of spin. For me the spin is enough. I don't try to draw errors from overwhelming spin anymore, I gave up on that two years ago - it's all about consistency, variations and power using the the spin now, variatioms being more about adapting to the opponent and power being about less blocking and more hitting and counterlooping.

Tony's Table Tennis
04-15-2017, 07:15 PM
this is a ridiculous post. you dont seem to know much about chinese national pride. no coach would ever do this and believe me if there where the slightest of indication/suspicion, heads were going down asap.

You can now go to the basement and train with the girls because your attitute offends the greatest coach of all time

hahaha
well said TTFrenzy

Fais, do you really think CNT is a mickey mouse organization?
LGL feeding his own ego?

I am assuming you have a language barrier with mandarin

Tony's Table Tennis
04-15-2017, 07:19 PM
I don't think that china doesn't treats Asian Champs with high priority. They sent all of their big guns. I feel that they didn't do 'special preparations' and at the same time coaches expected them to win every single match (against foreigners). This put the players under high pressure and they lost their confidence.

Well, you just said what I said
No special preparations = not high priority.

In Close training, they train not just on themselves, but train playing against certain players.
Here they also develop new technique to handle those players

Clearly based on the womens matches, Japan is one step ahead when comes to new technique

The thing about pressure, well thats athlete for you, or rather, Chinese TT athletes for you

Tony's Table Tennis
04-15-2017, 07:22 PM
No, they are comparing the ball to the old cellulose acetate ball. China built a whole practice venue for their team in Rio, do you think they would skimp on the cost of ordering only 3* NP40+ balls for training?

They are complaining that their spins and strokes don't draw errors like they used to with the old crappy ball. Laistrogian airs my thoughts perfectly, I prefer the consistency of the ball to any stupid spin they got with their tacky rubbers and boosting. Those eggs should never have been used and I hate to say it but Ma Long was an egg ball champion.

Look at how Niwa blocked down and countered Xu Xin, Xu Xin will blame the spin but it really comes down to consistent behavior of the ball so you can understand what your stroke does and what the opponent's stroke is doing.

There is 5 different balls
Made in China new DHS
Made in China DF
Made in China XSF
Made in Germany Butterfly G40+
Made in Japan Nittaku Premium

They are play different.
There wasn't any proper build up to Asian Champ
The trials was defiantly not a build up to Asian Champ

Interesting to see how WTTC goes

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 07:38 PM
I understand where you are coming from , I am still a heavy spin player and my approach is still to make heavy spin . I appreciate the fact that even thought Nittaku is slower you could still spin it and still force mistakes from the deceptive spin . I am not as consistent as you are to change my game to take advantage from consistency or may be its a mindset change that I need to make.


I could play with the Xu Shaofa, I even had decent results with the Dfish egg. I just hated the DHS egg and its clones. I mean don't get me wrong, I may come to rue the loss of spin, but I am a heavy spin player by nature, I left equipment with more spin to use equipment with more control because I didn't think I was getting an advantage from having extra spinny equipment any more, especially on defence when blocking. So I may not be the right person to speak about loss of spin. For me the spin is enough. I don't try to draw errors from overwhelming spin anymore, I gave up on that two years ago - it's all about consistency, variations and power using the the spin now, variatioms being more about adapting to the opponent and power being about less blocking and more hitting and counterlooping.

NextLevel
04-15-2017, 07:39 PM
There is 5 different balls
Made in China new DHS
Made in China DF
Made in China XSF
Made in Germany Butterfly G40+
Made in Japan Nittaku Premium

They are play different.
There wasn't any proper build up to Asian Champ
The trials was defiantly not a build up to Asian Champ

Interesting to see how WTTC goes

There are 7 different 3* ITTF approved balls at least. I am a bit of a ball expert, having bought and tested every ball and played with various types of equipment for every ball, I just don't talk about it.

1. Made in China old DHS - this is the cellulose acetate ball that was used in WTTC 2015, Olympics 2016 and all ITTF tour and world events until February this year. Joola, Nittaku, Butterfly and many European companies copied this ball with different QA levels.
2. Made in China new DHS - this is the new D40+ ball (ABS plastic) that will be used going forward in ITTF events. Many companies will copy this ball.
3. Made in China old DF - cellulose acetate, used in DFish sponsored comp, including NCTTAs in the USA. Kinson and some companies copied this ball.
4. MAde in China new DF ball - this is the new V40+ (ABS plastic) that I think will set DFish where it usually is relative to DHS.
5. Made in China seamless balls, XSF - this is the seamless ball that most commonly associated with XSF. Popular with many amateurs but not used in any international pro tournaments.
6. Made in Germany Butterfly G40+ - The German attempt at a plastic ball, very fast and smooth. Dents without breaking and smoothness makes it harder to control with extended use. Used at a few Butterfly events.
7. Made in JApan Nittaku Premium - the first ABS 3 star ball and the technology that seems to have won out with its adoption by DHS and DFish. Used in many top European events and Japanese events and the ball preferred by most pros who are not Chinese.

I have used every ball. Balls 2, 4 and 7 play differently, but still play similarly. If you practice with all 2 or 4, you will do okay with ball 7 (the reverse might not be true).

The Chinese team used Nittaku for the Marvelous 12 event. They can complain all they want to about the lack of training but they have experience with the ball. I can accept that their trials was not a build up to peak at an event. Their closed training will be a build up to peak at WTTC.

But in the end, they knew the ball, they have the ball, they have competed internally with the ball, and they have known ABS balls spin less for months. No more eggs.

ajtatosmano2
04-15-2017, 07:40 PM
Well, you just said what I said
No special preparations = not high priority.

In Close training, they train not just on themselves, but train playing against certain players.
Here they also develop new technique to handle those players

Clearly based on the womens matches, Japan is one step ahead when comes to new technique

The thing about pressure, well thats athlete for you, or rather, Chinese TT athletes for you

Probably it didn't come through what I wanted to say:
There is a difference between when you say to your players 'you are the best, play as usual, nothing else is needed to win' and when you tell them 'guys, our team is the best so don't lose, okay? Who loses will be punished! We don't have time to another closed training as WTTC comes in a few weeks, but you still can't lose, I am clear?.'
In the first you don't give high priority to the tournament, in the second you just have an even higher priority one close in time.

NextLevel
04-15-2017, 07:44 PM
Probably it didn't come through what I wanted to say:
There is a difference between when you say to your players 'you are the best, play as usual, nothing else is needed to win' and when you tell them 'guys, our team is the best so don't lose, okay? Who loses will be punished! We don't have time to another closed training as WTTC comes in a few weeks, but you still can't lose, I am clear?.'
In the first you don't give high priority to the tournament, in the second you just have an even higher priority one close in time.

The reason why the closed training is an "issue" is because of the ball changes. Without that, it would be far less of an issue.

ajtatosmano2
04-15-2017, 07:51 PM
Someone knows the exact price of the new DHS D40+ ball? (***) There is a survey by Hungarian Assotiation to seize up what regulations should be done ball-wise in the leagues. Now every team uses what he wants from celluloid to seamless plastic. The main counter-arguments on the plastic balls is that they are egg-shaped, expensive, easily breaking and spinless. If the the new DHS is cheaper than the other ones, then 3 problem is eliminated!

AndySmith
04-15-2017, 07:52 PM
I could play with the Xu Shaofa, I even had decent results with the Dfish egg. I just hated the DHS egg and its clones. I mean don't get me wrong, I may come to rue the loss of spin, but I am a heavy spin player by nature, I left equipment with more spin to use equipment with more control because I didn't think I was getting an advantage from having extra spinny equipment any more, especially on defence when blocking. So I may not be the right person to speak about loss of spin. For me the spin is enough. I don't try to draw errors from overwhelming spin anymore, I gave up on that two years ago - it's all about consistency, variations and power using the the spin now, variatioms being more about adapting to the opponent and power being about less blocking and more hitting and counterlooping.

My experience with ABS-type balls is similar to what you describe - the drop in spin, and the difficulty in applying spin vs the reward, results in the most efficient route becoming to concentrate on another approach. I feel that it's one that reduces the focus on over spinning the opponent, and moves more towards taking the ball early and countering with precision and power. I still find that I can get better results with seamless (I can induce a lot more errors via opponents blocking heavy topspin off, for example), but with the harder-feeling ABS I find that any topspin I send out with any height can just be hit through, for the most part. It's a much riskier strategy than it used to be.

Looking at Niwa v XX, I thought Niwa was taking enormous risks on counters, right from the start. He was aggressive to the point of recklessness, and I thought there was no way such a low-percentage approach would work. But he started to land a few (and they were totally ridiculous - proper all-or-nothing shot selection), and I think it spooked XX. XX relies on application on heavy spin on the FH wing more than most, but wasn't allowed to rally, or even to get to a position where he could start to vary his spin. Niwa took it away from him, and XX didn't have a plan B (or wasn't comfortable applying it against Niwa, who was peaking). And quite apart from XX - Niwa landed some incredible counters - I genuinely LOL'd at 2 or 3 of them because they seemed wildly optimistic, but were just perfection. That is some performance, take nothing away from it.

I don't think this comes down to ball consistency as such - I think the NP40+ just favors a specific approach to the game, and gives a slight disadvantage to players who have big swings, or play further away from the table. Close-in counter players will feel a bump OTOH. Sure, the ball is the same for everyone, but not everyone will adapt at the same rate, and some players would have to jettison major parts of their game style. Someone like FZD comes into this almost ready-made to suit, but players who rely on spin more feel the impact. I thought Boll would struggle with any plastic ball, and I can't see wider adoption of NP40+ or D40+ helping his cause, but the lack of cut-throat competition pushing from below in Germany has kept him relevant on the national scene. XX does not have that luxury - will he be given time to adapt, or would it be better to concentrate CNT resources on other players with a more suitable playing style? I don't think he will be given much more time if he continues to struggle, but it's only one result in a pretty non-standard tournament, so there is certainly no trend. Just speculation.

I don't look forward to watching some future match-ups of the same close-in style in the men's game though. Lots of points where a kill is attempted on the 2nd-5th ball, either landing a winner or missing by 10 feet. Not the most interesting type of game to watch.

I don't mind admitting that I thought the abs ball would totally play into the hands on the CNT women though, barring DN. Here you have the quintessential close-in playstyle at work. Instead you get the emergence of Miu, who looks to have found a way to apply a sense of abandonment to her close-in work. She throws a lot of everything into her shots, and I'm amazed by her ability to recover more than anything else. The CNT players look serene with their short strokes, but Miu brings the blitz. A savage whirlwind. And her serves are very difficult to attack hard - she gains the initiative very early. Can she play at that speed and level for best-of-7 though?

If nothing else, these are interesting times.

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 07:53 PM
check here ... http://ttnpp.com/store/ ....

Someone knows the exact price of the new DHS D40+ ball? (***) There is a survey by Hungarian Assotiation to seize up what regulations should be done ball-wise in the leagues. Now every team uses what he wants from celluloid to seamless plastic. The main counter-arguments with the plastic ball is that they are egg-shaped, expensive, easily breaking and spinless. If the the new DHS is cheaper than the other ones, then 3 problem is eliminated!

rainneverever
04-15-2017, 07:56 PM
In Marvelous 12 trials, DHS LED table was used in about half of the matches which is not standard and affects the bounce of the Nittaku balls. During the qualification matches of National Games from Mar 23-29, 729 seamless balls were used (a local brand from the host city). Every CNT player who played in ATTC except Zhang Jike was there practicing and playing with the seamless balls. I would say it is CNT's own fault not being fully prepared for ATTC with the standard table and balls.

Edit:
BTW, as a commentator of CCTV, Deng Yaping mentioned that she tried out Nittaku balls and felt reduced backspin. Li Sun (Zhu Yuling's coach) also complained about using different balls in adjacent tournaments. Not sure if they can fix the problem in the closed training as most of balls in the training center is DHS 40+ ABS.



The Chinese team used Nittaku for the Marvelous 12 event. They can complain all they want to about the lack of training but they have experience with the ball. I can accept that their trials was not a build up to peak at an event. Their closed training will be a build up to peak at WTTC.

But in the end, they knew the ball, they have the ball, they have competed internally with the ball, and they have known ABS balls spin less for months. No more eggs.

AndySmith
04-15-2017, 08:03 PM
In Marvelous 12 trials, DHS LED table was used in about half of the matches which is not standard and affects the bounce of the Nittaku balls. During the qualification matches of National Games from Mar 23-29, 729 seamless balls were used (a local brand from the host city). Every CNT player who played in ATTC except Zhang Jike was there practicing and playing with the seamless balls. I would say it is CNT's own fault not being full prepared for ATTC with the standard table and balls.

It's amazing really that these details aren't more tightly controlled, but perhaps that's more of a statement of the importance (or lack thereof) of the ATTC for the CNT. This is the team that used the Olympic flooring for their Olympic trials, for example. In a world of marginal gains, this kind of disruption on the way into a tournament is asking for trouble.

NextLevel
04-15-2017, 08:14 PM
My experience with ABS-type balls is similar to what you describe - the drop in spin, and the difficulty in applying spin vs the reward, results in the most efficient route becoming to concentrate on another approach. I feel that it's one that reduces the focus on over spinning the opponent, and moves more towards taking the ball early and countering with precision and power. I still find that I can get better results with seamless (I can induce a lot more errors via opponents blocking heavy topspin off, for example), but with the harder-feeling ABS I find that any topspin I send out with any height can just be hit through, for the most part. It's a much riskier strategy than it used to be.

Looking at Niwa v XX, I thought Niwa was taking enormous risks on counters, right from the start. He was aggressive to the point of recklessness, and I thought there was no way such a low-percentage approach would work. But he started to land a few (and they were totally ridiculous - proper all-or-nothing shot selection), and I think it spooked XX. XX relies on application on heavy spin on the FH wing more than most, but wasn't allowed to rally, or even to get to a position where he could start to vary his spin. Niwa took it away from him, and XX didn't have a plan B (or wasn't comfortable applying it against Niwa, who was peaking). And quite apart from XX - Niwa landed some incredible counters - I genuinely LOL'd at 2 or 3 of them because they seemed wildly optimistic, but were just perfection. That is some performance, take nothing away from it.

I don't think this comes down to ball consistency as such - I think the NP40+ just favors a specific approach to the game, and gives a slight disadvantage to players who have big swings, or play further away from the table. Close-in counter players will feel a bump OTOH. Sure, the ball is the same for everyone, but not everyone will adapt at the same rate, and some players would have to jettison major parts of their game style. Someone like FZD comes into this almost ready-made to suit, but players who rely on spin more feel the impact. I thought Boll would struggle with any plastic ball, and I can't see wider adoption of NP40+ or D40+ helping his cause, but the lack of cut-throat competition pushing from below in Germany has kept him relevant on the national scene. XX does not have that luxury - will he be given time to adapt, or would it be better to concentrate CNT resources on other players with a more suitable playing style? I don't think he will be given much more time if he continues to struggle, but it's only one result in a pretty non-standard tournament, so there is certainly no trend. Just speculation.

I don't look forward to watching some future match-ups of the same close-in style in the men's game though. Lots of points where a kill is attempted on the 2nd-5th ball, either landing a winner or missing by 10 feet. Not the most interesting type of game to watch.

I don't mind admitting that I thought the abs ball would totally play into the hands on the CNT women though, barring DN. Here you have the quintessential close-in playstyle at work. Instead you get the emergence of Miu, who looks to have found a way to apply a sense of abandonment to her close-in work. She throws a lot of everything into her shots, and I'm amazed by her ability to recover more than anything else. The CNT players look serene with their short strokes, but Miu brings the blitz. A savage whirlwind. And her serves are very difficult to attack hard - she gains the initiative very early. Can she play at that speed and level for best-of-7 though?

If nothing else, these are interesting times.

I disagree with a lot of this, even when agreeing with some of it.

Most people I know already hit through spin with the seamless balls so I am not sure I agree with this. The thing about the ABS 40+ balls is that they are faster than the seamless balls and the ball trajectories are more in line with celluloid balls. They also bounce lower so I find it easier to serve through the table with them. For me, the height of the seamless balls and their ball trajectories threw off people who backed off the table too far, and for people who played a lot with celluloid, you could sometimes mess them up with slow spin because the ball would sit a bit more. But once people adapted, I was stuck having to defend smashes and banana flicks because of the ball height.

I have a big swing, the people I play with the most and give me fits have big swings, and the blockers/hitters I know all prefer the Xu Shaofa to the NP40+. The Xu Shaofa ball is consistent, other than durability when it crashes into hard surfaces or suffers high impact collisions, I have no major issues. Where I prefer the NP40+ is that if I back up and wait for the ball, where the ball shows up is where my celluloid instincts tell me it will. With the XuShaofa, I am often looping the ball at my knees.

The key with the ABS ball is ball height. You can't play a high arcing game with any of the plastic balls vs a serious counterlooper or hitter without picking the ball up, with the exception of the old DHS because it doesn't bounce upwards. But with the NP40+ or the D40+, you have a decent chance of keeping the ball low. No chance with the seamless ball.

For the away from the table game, I prefer the NP40+ by far, the ball shows up to me, the XSF ball hangs and doesn't show up where it should. Boll is a precision player, any ball that plays consistently helps his game, he is not just about the spin but about the consistency of the rally. Age might take away a bit, but his ability to loop anything makes him a nightmare for everyone. You can look at the Euros and ask how much he has been hurt by the NP40+ in those tournaments.

NextLevel
04-15-2017, 08:18 PM
Someone knows the exact price of the new DHS D40+ ball? (***) There is a survey by Hungarian Assotiation to seize up what regulations should be done ball-wise in the leagues. Now every team uses what he wants from celluloid to seamless plastic. The main counter-arguments on the plastic balls is that they are egg-shaped, expensive, easily breaking and spinless. If the the new DHS is cheaper than the other ones, then 3 problem is eliminated!

The three problems are eliminated. Spinless is a matter of personal preference.

propingpong
04-15-2017, 08:43 PM
Someone recorded that match where Ma Long lost Sangeun Jeong. It is taken with cell phone so quality is reasonable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KQ2dt9aGS8

ajtatosmano2
04-15-2017, 08:57 PM
The three problems are eliminated. Spinless is a matter of personal preference.

I agree, but this is what people complaining about. I felt that the best if I list everything.

TTFrenzy
04-15-2017, 09:03 PM
In Marvelous 12 trials, DHS LED table was used in about half of the matches which is not standard and affects the bounce of the Nittaku balls. During the qualification matches of National Games from Mar 23-29, 729 seamless balls were used (a local brand from the host city). Every CNT player who played in ATTC except Zhang Jike was there practicing and playing with the seamless balls. I would say it is CNT's own fault not being fully prepared for ATTC with the standard table and balls.

Edit:
BTW, as a commentator of CCTV, Deng Yaping mentioned that she tried out Nittaku balls and felt reduced backspin. Li Sun (Zhu Yuling's coach) also complained about using different balls in adjacent tournaments. Not sure if they can fix the problem in the closed training as most of balls in the training center is DHS 40+ ABS.

Do we know how much time did CNT devote to practice with Nittaku premium? Tjhese balls , correct me if im wrong, are quite a while in the market. I dont think all of the cnt losses are because of the balls, the trials have finished almost 1 month ago so cnt had tons of time to adapt to nittaku premium again.

tropical
04-15-2017, 09:09 PM
Be graceful in defeat. Sore loser only makes you look bad.

TTFrenzy
04-15-2017, 11:03 PM
The scheduled match hours in the ATTC on the ittf site are on chinese time? or GMT 0 ?

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 11:04 PM
The one in ITTF is on Beijing time

The scheduled match hours in the ATTC on the ittf site are on chinese time? or GMT 0 ?

TTFrenzy
04-15-2017, 11:09 PM
The one in ITTF is on Beijing time

thanks!

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-15-2017, 11:15 PM
Fun fact:

Before HIRANO, the previous Japanese winner was KOYAMA Chire in 1996.
But actually to Wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama
"Chire Koyama (小山 ちれ Koyama Chire? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Installing_Japanese_character_sets)), born He Zhili (simplified Chinese (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_Chinese_characters): 何智丽; traditional Chinese (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_characters): 何智麗; pinyin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin): Hé Zhìlì),[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-sr-1) (born 30 September 1964, Shanghai (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai), China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China))[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-sr-1) is a former table tennis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_tennis) world champion from China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-ittf-2) who later represented Japan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) under her current name.

Representing China, she won the 1987 World Championships in New Delhi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Delhi), India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India).[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-ittf-2) However, she left the national team soon after as a result of her decision to not throw away matches to her teammates.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-dawnwei-3) The 1987 world championship semi-finals featured 3 Chinese women and the Korean Yang Young-Ja. In the first semi-final, China's Dai Lily led 18-12 in the final set but she blew the lead and lost 21-18 to Yang Young-Ja. It is alleged that the Chinese coaches (Zhang, Xielin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Xielin)) thought that Guan Jianhua had a better chance of beating Yang Young-Ja in the final, and ordered He Zhili to lose the semi-final. She refused to obey the order and won the match. The Chinese coaches had no option but to support her in the final to increase the country's tally of medals. He Zhili was brilliant in the final and beat Yang Young-Ja. But she left the team because of the episode and migrated to Japan."

Before HIRANO and KOYAMA/HE, the previous (and unique) non-Chinese born winner is EDANO Tomie back all the way in 1974 !!!! Thats how dominant China is !!!!

TTFrenzy
04-15-2017, 11:42 PM
Fun fact:

Before HIRANO, the previous Japanese winner was KOYAMA Chire in 1996.
But actually to Wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama
"Chire Koyama (小山 ちれ Koyama Chire? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Installing_Japanese_character_sets)), born He Zhili (simplified Chinese (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_Chinese_characters): 何智丽; traditional Chinese (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_characters): 何智麗; pinyin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin): Hé Zhìlì),[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-sr-1) (born 30 September 1964, Shanghai (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai), China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China))[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-sr-1) is a former table tennis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_tennis) world champion from China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-ittf-2) who later represented Japan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) under her current name.

Representing China, she won the 1987 World Championships in New Delhi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Delhi), India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India).[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-ittf-2) However, she left the national team soon after as a result of her decision to not throw away matches to her teammates.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-dawnwei-3) The 1987 world championship semi-finals featured 3 Chinese women and the Korean Yang Young-Ja. In the first semi-final, China's Dai Lily led 18-12 in the final set but she blew the lead and lost 21-18 to Yang Young-Ja. It is alleged that the Chinese coaches (Zhang, Xielin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Xielin)) thought that Guan Jianhua had a better chance of beating Yang Young-Ja in the final, and ordered He Zhili to lose the semi-final. She refused to obey the order and won the match. The Chinese coaches had no option but to support her in the final to increase the country's tally of medals. He Zhili was brilliant in the final and beat Yang Young-Ja. But she left the team because of the episode and migrated to Japan."

Before HIRANO and KOYAMA/HE, the previous (and unique) non-Chinese born winner is EDANO Tomie back all the way in 1974 !!!! Thats how dominant China is !!!!

Yeah, I read that story before she is now a coach in japan, dont remember on which player I think it is fukuhara

rainneverever
04-16-2017, 12:15 AM
Could not be Ai Fukuhara. There is a recent nice documentary on Fukuhara. http://www.fujitv.co.jp/fukuhara-ai/
12-year-old Fukuhara once played with 36-year-old Koyama/He and won 1 set. Koyama/He commented that "there are a thousand Chinese kids playing at Ai's level", which made Ai decide to get trained in China.
Koyama/He's story is complicated. Changing a Chinese family name to a Japanese one is sth big.


Yeah, I read that story before she is now a coach in japan, dont remember on which player I think it is fukuhara

NextLevel
04-16-2017, 12:28 AM
Fun fact:

Before HIRANO, the previous Japanese winner was KOYAMA Chire in 1996.
But actually to Wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama
"Chire Koyama (小山 ちれ Koyama Chire? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Installing_Japanese_character_sets)), born He Zhili (simplified Chinese (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_Chinese_characters): 何智丽; traditional Chinese (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_characters): 何智麗; pinyin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin): Hé Zhìlì),[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-sr-1) (born 30 September 1964, Shanghai (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai), China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China))[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-sr-1) is a former table tennis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_tennis) world champion from China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-ittf-2) who later represented Japan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) under her current name.

Representing China, she won the 1987 World Championships in New Delhi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Delhi), India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India).[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-ittf-2) However, she left the national team soon after as a result of her decision to not throw away matches to her teammates.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chire_Koyama#cite_note-dawnwei-3) The 1987 world championship semi-finals featured 3 Chinese women and the Korean Yang Young-Ja. In the first semi-final, China's Dai Lily led 18-12 in the final set but she blew the lead and lost 21-18 to Yang Young-Ja. It is alleged that the Chinese coaches (Zhang, Xielin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Xielin)) thought that Guan Jianhua had a better chance of beating Yang Young-Ja in the final, and ordered He Zhili to lose the semi-final. She refused to obey the order and won the match. The Chinese coaches had no option but to support her in the final to increase the country's tally of medals. He Zhili was brilliant in the final and beat Yang Young-Ja. But she left the team because of the episode and migrated to Japan."

Before HIRANO and KOYAMA/HE, the previous (and unique) non-Chinese born winner is EDANO Tomie back all the way in 1974 !!!! Thats how dominant China is !!!!

She had won it quite a few times as a Chinese too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Table_Tennis_Championships

She won in 1988 which needs some explaining given the story.

drunix80
04-16-2017, 01:09 AM
I am not sure why there is this big fuss over the ball. From my understanding, Miu Hirano was playing faster, stronger and consistently since the last time I saw her. The chinese were simply a tad too slow to catch up with her. Many times they were struggling to reach the ball. Its just a case of great training and match preparation. Remeber she won Japanese National Championship recently. It shows her training , experience in CSL etc are adding up perfectly. Also ML lost because he played very poorly. He looked tired and slow , body language was negative and so on. If ball change is an issue ,now how about FZD ?? Why the ball change has not affected him . He has decimated every opponent so far. And how about ZJK , the poor guy marred with injuries played with great resolve and results have showed up.

Overall I think many members of CNT this time were not up to their mark, possibly underprepard and also little complacent and that is the main reason they lost. Ball change is a minor factor.

rainneverever
04-16-2017, 01:37 AM
Li Wujun (CCTV sports journalist) posted this photo on Apr 10, saying these balls are used in Wuxi for multi-ball training of CNT. Not sure why they kept using DHS balls even during the tournaments.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/cache.php?img=http%3A%2F%2Fwx4.sinaimg.cn%2Flarge%2F3bc674a4gy1fehhvokbqyj22c03407wi.jpg


Do we know how much time did CNT devote to practice with Nittaku premium? Tjhese balls , correct me if im wrong, are quite a while in the market. I dont think all of the cnt losses are because of the balls, the trials have finished almost 1 month ago so cnt had tons of time to adapt to nittaku premium again.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-16-2017, 01:40 AM
Li Wujun (CCTV sports journalist) posted this photo on Apr 10, saying these balls are used in Wuxi for multi-ball training of CNT. Not sure why they kept using DHS balls even during the tournaments.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/cache.php?img=http%3A%2F%2Fwx4.sinaimg.cn%2Flarge%2F3bc674a4gy1fehhvokbqyj22c03407wi.jpg

LOL . Whats even more fun, is that those Asian Championships happened in CHINA, its not like nobody told them in advance...

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-16-2017, 01:41 AM
I am not sure why there is this big fuss over the ball. From my understanding, Miu Hirano was playing faster, stronger and consistently since the last time I saw her. The chinese were simply a tad too slow to catch up with her. Many times they were struggling to reach the ball. Its just a case of great training and match preparation. Remeber she won Japanese National Championship recently. It shows her training , experience in CSL etc are adding up perfectly. Also ML lost because he played very poorly. He looked tired and slow , body language was negative and so on. If ball change is an issue ,now how about FZD ?? Why the ball change has not affected him . He has decimated every opponent so far. And how about ZJK , the poor guy marred with injuries played with great resolve and results have showed up.

Overall I think many members of CNT this time were not up to their mark, possibly underprepard and also little complacent and that is the main reason they lost. Ball change is a minor factor.

I agree. I had great hopes for HIRANO, not that soon against the best Chinese, i thought she'd be ready, like, for Tokyo 2020, but she's really learning fast. Her win against ISHIKAWA at the National Championships was already very convincing. Probably she will stay on top or very near the top for quite some years to come. Her BH is the best in the world. Now her FH doesn't seem so powerful but she's hitting the ball very early. and she's finding awesome angles, often hitting the ball from the middle to the sides of the table.

NextLevel
04-16-2017, 01:53 AM
LOL . Whats even more fun, is that those Asian Championships happened in CHINA, its not like nobody told them in advance...

To me, the balls (D40+) are similar enough to Nittaku Premium but the most common complaint I hear is that these balls have less spin than Nittaku, not more spin, but who knows. In Ma Long's specific case, given he was the king of the plastic era with the DHS 40+, I get it. But the D40+ ball is fine as is. And if DHS had taken this problem seriously earlier, their ball would still be in use.

rainneverever
04-16-2017, 02:25 AM
My guess is that DHS ABS is very similar to NP. Otherwise it is really stupid to use DHS ABS in preparation for tournaments with NP. However, players with different style and touch get affected differently by the ABS balls.
Liu Guoliang commented on DHS ABS balls after the Stage II of WTTC trials (Marvelous 12 is Stage III):
The ABS ball is less spiny and faster. It is easy to play with this ball and leading to long rallies. In this trial, there are more topspin rallies. In terms of the style of powerful BH and balanced FH/BH, players of more aggressive style are favored, such as Fan Zhendong, Liang Jingkun and Xu Chenhao. Players of control and touch are less favored.
Now a lot of players find the spins change a lot. However, I think in a while, most likely AFTER WTTC, the players will find the feeling of spins with ABS balls. With the ability to master spin, the ranks won't differ much from those in the old DHS era.
http://sports.sohu.com/20170211/n480481314.shtml


To me, the balls (D40+) are similar enough to Nittaku Premium but the most common complaint I hear is that these balls have less spin than Nittaku, not more spin, but who knows. In Ma Long's specific case, given he was the king of the plastic era with the DHS 40+, I get it. But the D40+ ball is fine as is. And if DHS had taken this problem seriously earlier, their ball would still be in use.

TTFrenzy
04-16-2017, 02:27 AM
I am not sure why there is this big fuss over the ball. From my understanding, Miu Hirano was playing faster, stronger and consistently since the last time I saw her. The chinese were simply a tad too slow to catch up with her. Many times they were struggling to reach the ball. Its just a case of great training and match preparation. Remeber she won Japanese National Championship recently. It shows her training , experience in CSL etc are adding up perfectly. Also ML lost because he played very poorly. He looked tired and slow , body language was negative and so on. If ball change is an issue ,now how about FZD ?? Why the ball change has not affected him . He has decimated every opponent so far. And how about ZJK , the poor guy marred with injuries played with great resolve and results have showed up.

Overall I think many members of CNT this time were not up to their mark, possibly underprepard and also little complacent and that is the main reason they lost. Ball change is a minor factor.


Exactly, ma long himself didnt complain much as if you pay attention to the whole interview after his defeat. He was more upset with himself for letting the opponent to take initiative and making many unforced errors. LGY FZD ZJK XX all of them played up to their level with the nittaku. XX was just outplayed in the first balls, I dont think the ball has anything to do with that or that it affects the performance to be a deciding factor.

Baal
04-16-2017, 04:10 AM
LOL . Whats even more fun, is that those Asian Championships happened in CHINA, its not like nobody told them in advance...

Those are D40+. Should have not cause any problem at all for them to play a tournament with NP after that. If they are using this as an excuse, well, nobody should buy it.

Baal
04-16-2017, 04:13 AM
My guess is that DHS ABS is very similar to NP. Otherwise it is really stupid to use DHS ABS in preparation for tournaments with NP. However, players with different style and touch get affected differently by the ABS balls.
Liu Guoliang commented on DHS ABS balls after the Stage II of WTTC trials (Marvelous 12 is Stage III):
The ABS ball is less spiny and faster. It is easy to play with this ball and leading to long rallies. In this trial, there are more topspin rallies. In terms of the style of powerful BH and balanced FH/BH, players of more aggressive style are favored, such as Fan Zhendong, Liang Jingkun and Xu Chenhao. Players of control and touch are less favored.
Now a lot of players find the spins change a lot. However, I think in a while, most likely AFTER WTTC, the players will find the feeling of spins with ABS balls. With the ability to master spin, the ranks won't differ much from those in the old DHS era.
http://sports.sohu.com/20170211/n480481314.shtml

I play with both (D40+ and NP40+). They are very very similar. CNT has had ABS balls to train with as long as anyone. This is not a good excuse. As for the ball being "less spinny"? ABS balls are rounder. So maybe the spin affects it in a more predictable way. Compared to cellulose acetate 40+, the ABS balls also bounce a little higher and more consistently also (in other words quite a bit more like 40 mm balls and not like the terrible 40+ cellulose acetate balls). I am amazed that the CNT played a tournament with seamless balls. Those bounce higher still.

propingpong
04-16-2017, 06:20 AM
Anyone noticed that Hayata spoiled rubber while played against chinese pair? Why none of referries noticed it? It was so clear!

ping fun
04-16-2017, 06:59 AM
hey guys talk about the result . I cant watch the games . what is score for koki niwa and sangeun jeung game?/

achalwins94
04-16-2017, 07:04 AM
Jeung wins! He finally showed his talent. After all he is Captainslayer !

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

ttmonster
04-16-2017, 07:04 AM
jeong just won 13-11 in the fifth , was down 0-2 in the first two sets and 1-5 in the last , infact it was 4-8 and then probably 8-10 , but he found a way out ... what a guy !

hey guys talk about the result . I cant watch the games . what is score for koki niwa and sangeun jeung game?/

fanTT
04-16-2017, 07:06 AM
jeong was 1-7 down in fifth. Then 6-10 down and still managed to win. Actually not the first time for japanese to lose in such situation

NextLevel
04-16-2017, 07:24 AM
Someone showed they have more ice in their veins than Niwa.

ttmonster
04-16-2017, 07:30 AM
the way he moves he seems to have fire in his veins or somewhere else :P

Someone showed they have more ice in their veins than Niwa.

drunix80
04-16-2017, 07:52 AM
FZD def ZJK 3-1. ZJK was up 10-9 in 1st set but lost. FZD is playing very high quality. Will make a short work of sangeun jeung. Good to see ZJK doing an exhibition point at the end and overall a good tournament for him and his confidence. He is not far away from his best. If he takes a break from Korean Open and prepares well for Worlds, I would give him a high chance of going all the way there.

ping fun
04-16-2017, 07:55 AM
FZD def ZJK 3-1. ZJK was up 10-9 in 1st set but lost. FZD is playing very high quality. Will make a short work of sangeun jeung. Good to see ZJK doing an exhibition point at the end and overall a good tournament for him and his confidence. He is not far away from his best. If he takes a break from Korean Open and prepares well for Worlds, I would give him a high chance of going all the way there.
Thnx for your info .Jike was really motivated but still had pain in his foot . but again good work . Fan Zhendong is champion

Julien Jo Bieganski
04-16-2017, 08:32 AM
ZJK was up 10-9 in the first but before FZD lead 8-4

FZD was very serious and good playing with his FH today.

TTHopeful
04-16-2017, 08:53 AM
Would love to watch the final today anyone know what time it is in UK TIME? Stream link to? Thank you in advance

zoomtt
04-16-2017, 09:01 AM
Would love to watch the final today anyone know what time it is in UK TIME? Stream link to? Thank you in advance

Starting as soon as the current match finishes, you can watch it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqNPE1AQ0lw

drunix80
04-16-2017, 09:49 AM
FZD wins 3-0. Asian Champ. Well done. !!!

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-16-2017, 09:50 AM
FZD has no time to lose...

perniciousnc
04-16-2017, 10:16 AM
well as expected, a non-event for fzd.

drunix80
04-16-2017, 10:17 AM
FZD has no time to lose...

What an anti-climax Men's final !!!

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-16-2017, 10:34 AM
What an anti-climax Men's final !!!

this match is just a warm up before his regular evening training... he didn't want to show up late as he wants to be in full form for Dusseldorf next month and show his real skills there !!!

v100ev
04-16-2017, 11:12 AM
When I saw Koki Niwa loosing from 10:6 I was upset cause for me the result of the final was obvious with any of the chinese against the korean. If Koki could make it to the final no one could know what would have happened cause Niwa is super unpredictable and can make some extraordinary things sometimes. And the korean guy is strong.. But not strong enough for now..

edgy
04-16-2017, 11:31 AM
Man, you have to admire the tenacity of FZD. It was nice seeing something other than a ML/FZD final, but then again not really. I would much rather have watched FZD duke it out with the Captain again than the squash match that just took place.

TTLondon2012
04-16-2017, 11:36 AM
Ma Long vs Jeong Sangeun [Last Set]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo0PHHJQi8U

RidTheKid
04-16-2017, 12:44 PM
Indeed, terrible match. ML must've had his worst game in his career to lose to Jeong.


What an anti-climax Men's final !!!

TableTennisDaily
04-16-2017, 01:06 PM
Fan Zhendong the champ!

12792

drunix80
04-16-2017, 01:29 PM
Man, you have to admire the tenacity of FZD. It was nice seeing something other than a ML/FZD final, but then again not really. I would much rather have watched FZD duke it out with the Captain again than the squash match that just took place.

The Captain will be back. Everybody has a bad day at office. I am rooting for a FZD / ML final in Dusseldorf !!

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-16-2017, 02:00 PM
HIRANO Miu in todays TV News report


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9RA0f0EpPg

I'm trying to translate her, my Japanese is not native (nor is my English) and there may be mistakes

after winning against ZHU Yuling:
"(jokingly) I was superb wasn't I ? yes, I'm bragging."
[she exactly says "JIGAJISAN"自画自讃
http://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E8%87%AA%E7%94%BB%E8%87%AA%E8%B3%9B]

"There is the final thereafter, I will not stay on cloud 9, I'm going to refocus and win this final"

after winning
(somebody to her) they will be playing the Japanese national anthem
(Hirano) Thats super cool !!
("JIGAJISAN") I'm bragging again, but today i was like a Tengu (a traditional very strong Japanese monster with a very long nose), tomorrow my nose will be bent...

After winning Ding Ning:
I thought "good grief, i'm playing Ding Ning for my birthday", but finally it was my best birthday ever !

Baal
04-16-2017, 03:18 PM
Ttnpp has 72 balls for $40.

propingpong
04-16-2017, 04:07 PM
Mens Final Match Fan Zhendong - Jeong Sangeun statistics:
https://tabletennis.guide/statistic.php?video=10081

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-16-2017, 04:34 PM
Mens Final Match Fan Zhendong - Jeong Sangeun statistics:
https://tabletennis.guide/statistic.php?video=10081

thank you very much. very interesting. Its always nice to see a table from the web where numbers do actually add up properly :-)

Ilia Minkin
04-16-2017, 05:45 PM
Your face when you cannot tolerate ZJK's fangirls anymore.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/cache.php?img=http%3A%2F%2Fi1079.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw517%2Ffastmover1989%2Ffan2_zpsbep38u7a.png

https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/cache.php?img=http%3A%2F%2Fi1079.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw517%2Ffastmover1989%2Ffan1_zpseczm4yd9.png

TTFrenzy
04-16-2017, 07:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z68li7aVtg

go to 19:25 ding ning comments about hirano's loops and her share of luck . These comments after the underdog has won is why TT is so exciting for me to watch/experience

vvk1
04-16-2017, 08:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z68li7aVtg

go to 19:25 ding ning comments about hirano's loops and her share of luck . These comments after the underdog has won is why TT is so exciting for me to watch/experience

After these comments I cannot wait for a remake of the second half of the video you referred to in another thread - only this time featuring Miu Hirano and Ding Ning.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbhjhB-FF50

TTFrenzy
04-16-2017, 08:30 PM
After these comments I cannot wait for a remake of the second half of the video you referred to in another thread - only this time featuring Miu Hirano and Ding Ning.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbhjhB-FF50

Forgive me I didnt quite understand. U mean it would be nice for a video on how chinese & japanese view the match between ding ning and hirano ?

ping fun
04-16-2017, 08:40 PM
After these comments I cannot wait for a remake of the second half of the video you referred to in another thread - only this time featuring Miu Hirano and Ding Ning.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbhjhB-FF50

HA HA though it was a funny video but there were some moments when i was moved. The part zhang yining was talking to ai chan about how they tried and how their greatest players have stopped in provincial level

vvk1
04-16-2017, 09:21 PM
Forgive me I didnt quite understand. U mean it would be nice for a video on how chinese & japanese view the match between ding ning and hirano ?

yup, that's it.

vvk1
04-16-2017, 09:27 PM
yup, that's it.

That second half of the "How chinese and japanese view table tennis" video - where Zhang Yining telepathically talks to Ai Fukuhara - is a parody on the final scene of the Pinpon movie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0328258/

Here is the trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwFVc2NAt94

ttmonster
04-17-2017, 03:35 AM
Found some quotes from LGL on the recent performance of China ...
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-04/17/c_136214284.htm

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-17-2017, 04:56 AM
Found some quotes from LGL on the recent performance of China ...
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-04/17/c_136214284.htm

Top seed Ma Long was shocked out by the Chinese-born South Korean Jeong Sang Eun at the round of 32, and leading pen-holder Xu Xin lost to Japanese Koki Niwa in the quarterfinals.

Now i get it better !!!

ttmonster
04-17-2017, 05:02 AM
:D .. its a chinese newspaper man ...


Top seed Ma Long was shocked out by the Chinese-born South Korean Jeong Sang Eun at the round of 32, and leading pen-holder Xu Xin lost to Japanese Koki Niwa in the quarterfinals.

Now i get it better !!!

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-17-2017, 05:11 AM
could not be ai fukuhara. There is a recent nice documentary on fukuhara. http://www.fujitv.co.jp/fukuhara-ai/
12-year-old fukuhara once played with 36-year-old koyama/he and won 1 set. Koyama/he commented that "there are a thousand chinese kids playing at ai's level", which made ai decide to get trained in china.
Koyama/he's story is complicated. Changing a chinese family name to a japanese one is sth big.

KOYAMA/HE won the Japanese National Championships 8 times...
In the Japanese press reports about HIRANO, they mention her name (KOYAMA) as the last winner. There is no word about her being a Chinese mercenary.

Kelpo
04-17-2017, 07:30 AM
That second half of the "How chinese and japanese view table tennis" video - where Zhang Yining telepathically talks to Ai Fukuhara - is a parody on the final scene of the Pinpon movie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0328258/

Here is the trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwFVc2NAt94

It is actually from the Anime tv series called Ping Pong the Animation. They are both based off of the same comic so they have alot of the same scenes and the same story

TTHopeful
04-17-2017, 08:30 AM
Found some quotes from LGL on the recent performance of China ...
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-04/17/c_136214284.htm

Great. Can someone translate for us?

ping fun
04-17-2017, 08:33 AM
Great. Can someone translate for us?
It's english i guess , even if its not english , use google chrome to translate . By the way i was looking at korean open entries and there was no china there !!!

http://www.old.ittf.com/ittf_tournaments/ittf_entries_web5.asp?Gender=M&Tour_ID=2723&

vvk1
04-17-2017, 10:11 AM
It is actually from the Anime tv series called Ping Pong the Animation. They are both based off of the same comic so they have alot of the same scenes and the same story

Didn't know about the anime tv series - will look it up. Thanks!

tropical
04-17-2017, 03:30 PM
What does the term "Chinese born south Korean mean"? Does it mean he is a Chinese born in South Korea? Or is he a Korean born in China? Or is he a mixed Chinese- Korean?

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-17-2017, 03:42 PM
What does the term "Chinese born south Korean mean"? Does it mean he is a Chinese born in South Korea? Or is he a Korean born in China? Or is he a mixed Chinese- Korean?

i don't know about English grammar, but I think in this case, I think the article meant that JEONG is born in China (from Chinese parents ?) and become a migrant to take the Korean nationality (mercenary ?)

NextLevel
04-17-2017, 03:51 PM
i don't know about English grammar, but I think in this case, I think the article meant that JEONG is born in China (from Chinese parents ?) and become a migrant to take the Korean nationality (mercenary ?)

That is exactly correct. His father was a player and coach who took his son to Korea.

TurboZ
04-17-2017, 04:25 PM
What does the term "Chinese born south Korean mean"? Does it mean he is a Chinese born in South Korea? Or is he a Korean born in China? Or is he a mixed Chinese- Korean?

He was Chinese and born in Yanbian of China, just north of North Korea in the year 1990. Yanbian is an Korean autonomous prefecture due to the large number of ethnic Koreans living in the region. He became naturalized as Korean in 2006 and won the Boy's Single Final of 2007 WJTTC beating China.

Baal
04-17-2017, 04:34 PM
A bit like Texas, California and Arizona, where there are people named Jose Garcia who were born in the US, and whose ancestors have been in the US for generations and who speak Spanish and English.

For some reason in my city (Houston) there are quite a few of these ethnic Koreans from Yanbian prefecture (in China). There are two nice Korean restaurants in the main Chinese neighborhood (Bellaire Blvd area) run by people from there. Most of their customers are Chinese, and the owners speak to them in perfect native Chinese. Several miles away (Long Point area) there is also a separate Korean neighborhood, with people from South Korea.

TurboZ
04-17-2017, 04:57 PM
Any idea why ZJK was so pumped up after beating up Lin ? Is there some backstory to it ?

BTW, also saw that they are icing ZJK's left leg immediately after the match , if you watch the video till the end ...

Probably it is because of the controversial net serve by LGY in set 4 when they are leveled at 6:6. ZJK said it was net but umpire and LGY said no. ZJK was obviously affected and loss the next 4 points straight and the set.

Also ZJK called for medical treatment after narrowly winning set 3 and took a 5 minutes break to fix his left foot. I bet he just won't feel right losing to a new comer LGY at this stage so he had to give it all out and pump himself up even in such a bad condition.

ZJK said that he just can't keep up with FZD after losing the semi final and probably he won't feel as bad losing to the WR#2.

This is one match not to be missed with so many great shots and the side of ZJK we have not seen for so long. Hope there will be HD version of it later.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TceA-aG6hgk

drunix80
04-17-2017, 05:04 PM
I hope ZJK plays like this one more time and goes deep in the draw in Dusseldorf. Been a big fan of him for long. Hope he goes out with a bang. Not sure of his retirement plans but WTTC might just be his last.

NextLevel
04-17-2017, 06:11 PM
Probably it is because of the controversial net serve by LGY in set 4 when they are leveled at 6:6. ZJK said it was net but umpire and LGY said no. ZJK was obviously affected and loss the next 4 points straight and the set.

Also ZJK called for medical treatment after narrowly winning set 3 and took a 5 minutes break to fix his left foot. I bet he just won't feel right losing to a new comer LGY at this stage so he had to give it all out and pump himself up even in such a bad condition.

ZJK said that he just can't keep up with FZD after losing the semi final and probably he won't feel as bad losing to the WR#2.

This is one match not to be missed with so many great shots and the side of ZJK we have not seen for so long. Hope there will be HD version of it later.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TceA-aG6hgk

Every thing you said was what I picked up watching the match. I think it was a point of pride that he can't lose to LGY yet. But against FZD, it was clear even looking at ZJK's face that he accepted that the amount of spin and power that FZD was generating was beyond his pay grade. I think for him, winning one game was enough for his current level of pride and that he will revisit the question if he can at WTTC.

TTFrenzy
04-17-2017, 06:17 PM
I hope ZJK plays like this one more time and goes deep in the draw in Dusseldorf. Been a big fan of him for long. Hope he goes out with a bang.

I dont think he will make a difference, its really disappointing to see the best performer ever to go out like this. Especially when he has admitted that he is afraid to move faster because of his injury. He should have taken a break in suzhou and not participate, I think his last chance was in rio. Now maybe he is playing out of pure ego and stubborness. If he cant move like did in the past then it is definitely all over. Even if he fully recovers its one month for dusseldorf, you dont peak at one month with such injuries, anyway Im still gonna keep a window open just in case he pulls it off.

ajtatosmano2
04-17-2017, 07:58 PM
Now maybe he is playing out of pure ego and stubborness.

That's why we love ZJK, he doesn't give up. Sad that the new coach won't give him as many chances as LGL did. He said that they aren't familiar to each other, so he can only decide based on his performance. Which isn't that good.

What do you think, if he would participate in the Trials (not Marvellous 12) with his injuries like now against Oshima, which place would he take? I think he would end at the fourth or fifth place (including Ma Long).

TTFrenzy
04-17-2017, 09:49 PM
That's why we love ZJK, he doesn't give up. Sad that the new coach won't give him as many chances as LGL did. He said that they aren't familiar to each other, so he can only decide based on his performance. Which isn't that good.

What do you think, if he would participate in the Trials (not Marvellous 12) with his injuries like now against Oshima, which place would he take? I think he would end at the fourth or fifth place (including Ma Long).

Yeah but I dont think that this means is that ZJK is finished, its just that he does not know the guy very well and he could only co-operate with him based on his performance , he is clearly saying "I dont know how to handle him psychologically, but only evaluate his game"

You mean the 1st stage trials? Well he was excluded in the first place being a grand slam champion but I dont think he could do well. You can see that every youngster plays his heart out when facing ZJK or ML. What is clear for me is that his performance definitely depends a lot on his psychology of the day, the last time we saw an "unhindered" ZJK was against apollonia in qatar, he moved really fast like in the past but since then his performance is mostly solid & safe play not the ZJK we admired. So maybe there is a small chance for us to see him playing 100% again

drunix80
04-17-2017, 10:43 PM
That's why we love ZJK, he doesn't give up. Sad that the new coach won't give him as many chances as LGL did.He said that they aren't familiar to each other, so he can only decide based on his performance. Which isn't that good.

LGL is still the big daddy of Men's team. Didn't we see him handling ML and ZJK in this tournament. It is not that new coach does not know ZJK . He was ML's coach from the times ZJK won the grand slam and defeated ML in WTTC. Infact he would have studied ZJK's game to the core to strengthen ML's game. Agreed he may not have a working relationship with ZJK.

On a sidenote , given TT's ever decreasing popularity in China, ZJK fan base itself should be a big enough reason to keep him in CNT as long as he wants.

ttmonster
04-17-2017, 11:18 PM
I still have hope that he will be back , I think right now his only goal till he resolves his injury issues is to make sure he does not get beaten by non Chinese players and Chinese players other than the top 4 in the major tournaments , and he has proved already in the Olympics that even with injury he can still make sure he reaches the final, .... not sure if the coaches will allow that to happen for a long time , especially when Lin Gaoyuan has showed so much promise off late ..... but again , for them to field ZJK against foreigners is a lot safer bet than fielding new comers .... so we basically don't know how long he is going to continue or how long the CNT coaches will give him time to continue his injury rehabillation ... also because of his fan following it will difficult for them to remove him ... I haven't seen such support for any other players ... the only one that come remotely close is Ma Long


Yeah but I dont think that this means is that ZJK is finished, its just that he does not know the guy very well and he could only co-operate with him based on his performance , he is clearly saying "I dont know how to handle him psychologically, but only evaluate his game"

You mean the 1st stage trials? Well he was excluded in the first place being a grand slam champion but I dont think he could do well. You can see that every youngster plays his heart out when facing ZJK or ML. What is clear for me is that his performance definitely depends a lot on his psychology of the day, the last time we saw an "unhindered" ZJK was against apollonia in qatar, he moved really fast like in the past but since then his performance is mostly solid & safe play not the ZJK we admired. So maybe there is a small chance for us to see him playing 100% again

ping fun
04-18-2017, 05:09 AM
That's why we love ZJK, he doesn't give up. Sad that the new coach won't give him as many chances as LGL did. He said that they aren't familiar to each other, so he can only decide based on his performance. Which isn't that good.

What do you think, if he would participate in the Trials (not Marvellous 12) with his injuries like now against Oshima, which place would he take? I think he would end at the fourth or fifth place (including Ma Long).

Liu guoliang is the head coach of CNT and I think every thing is under his authority

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. I found an artical which Zjk tells that He just trained 4 day for asian championships and he is satisfied with the reason . For WTTC he thinks can be 70or 80 percent prepared . Here is the link . you can read the interview

: http://www.gxnews.com.cn/staticpages/20170417/newgx58f41781-16106981.shtml

In other artical qin zhijian is sure that zjk state can get better and better

: http://sports.qianlong.com/2017/0418/1610111.shtml

PHOTOS YOU MAY LIKE :

Gesture of south korea's coach ;) yeahh interesting ( I remember the semi final in rio)
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it's one of the most shared pic's i guess . every fan has shared this photos :p
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zoomtt
04-26-2017, 08:52 PM
Although a bit late, here it is a new article we have just published about Miu Hirano's match against Ding Ning:

https://zoomtt.com/2017/04/26/ding-ning-miu-hirano-beating-china-beating-the-odds/

I hope you find it interesting!

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-27-2017, 12:23 AM
@zoomtt

thats very interesting thank u vm

how did you make those stats ?
and how did you make the infographic with the position of serves on the table ?
did you use some software automatically making those stats from the videos ? whats this software ?

cheers

Ot Ot
04-27-2017, 01:39 AM
@zoomtt

Wow that's good analysis in a data science manner !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ot Ot
04-27-2017, 01:40 AM
@zoomtt

thats very interesting thank u vm

how did you make those stats ?
and how did you make the infographic with the position of serves on the table ?
did you use some software automatically making those stats from the videos ? whats this software ?

cheers

Could be using video analytics software ...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-27-2017, 03:31 AM
sure, i'm just curious about whats the name of this software... I thought these were proprietary only

zoomtt
04-27-2017, 08:22 AM
Thank you for the feedback! I'm using a couple of self-crafted tools for the analysis. They aren't too sophisticated but help to get the metrics in a faster way. I may publish them in the future if improve them a bit!

vik
04-27-2017, 09:13 AM
Do you think chinese men would be beaten if it was best of 7 game?It is first tournament a so importatant best of 5.It is ridiculous.Even challenge world tour event is best of 7

zoomtt
04-27-2017, 11:22 AM
Do you think chinese men would be beaten if it was best of 7 game?It is first tournament a so importatant best of 5.It is ridiculous.Even challenge world tour event is best of 7

I think that best of five is beneficial for non-favorite players, as it's easier to have three high level games than four.. best of seven allows some relax. I guess that's why some times Chinese players lose one or two sets against European players

vik
04-27-2017, 11:52 AM
I agree ,but this is Asian championship,not ittf challenge.can you imagine WTTC best of 5?Don´t you want to see more table tennis?

tropical
04-27-2017, 04:10 PM
The game is leaning toward more chance than skill. Shorter games & matches could favor high risk players.

Loopadoop
04-28-2017, 02:01 PM
Any Singles single elimination Tournament should be 4 of 7 games. Players travel for a 3 of 5 match, ridiculous.

FANtasticPanda
04-28-2017, 06:20 PM
Probably it is because of the controversial net serve by LGY in set 4 when they are leveled at 6:6. ZJK said it was net but umpire and LGY said no. ZJK was obviously affected and loss the next 4 points straight and the set.

Also ZJK called for medical treatment after narrowly winning set 3 and took a 5 minutes break to fix his left foot. I bet he just won't feel right losing to a new comer LGY at this stage so he had to give it all out and pump himself up even in such a bad condition.

ZJK said that he just can't keep up with FZD after losing the semi final and probably he won't feel as bad losing to the WR#2.

This is one match not to be missed with so many great shots and the side of ZJK we have not seen for so long. Hope there will be HD version of it later.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TceA-aG6hgk

I don't think ZJK is not feeling right losing to LGY. You can check his interview after 1/8 final, he said that it's hard for him to compete against LGY since he's a teammate who's familiar and that he would try all out to prepare and play no matter the result. It is the controversial netball that annoyed ZJK, b/c ZJK thought it was net and he was sure that LGY knows it, but LGY denied to the umpire.


After ZJK called it's a netball, their conversation:
LGY said first "it's not a netball".
ZJK: It's a netball, you stopped there (after serving) and you said it's not a netball?
LGY: I don't know, let the umpire call.


Then the umpire didn't change her mind and ZJK accepted the decision and continued the game (not in a good way for him though).


So in the fifth game, "ZJK tried to find LGY's weakness (his forehand) little by little and punched him hard. " - this sentence is quoted from Deng Yaping.


So I think ZJK's reaction is reflecting his attitude towards LGY's lack of sportsmanship, not his arrogance - actually he is not arrogant at all. After all, he's a great player who said "when you're enjoying victories, you also have to be prepared to lose" dates back to 2012.