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TableTennisDaily
04-15-2017, 02:29 PM
Unbelievable scenes in China today as Japan's Miu Hirano who is just 17 years old becomes the 3rd ever non Chinese player to win the Asian Championships (https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?15220-Asian-Championships-2017) defeating 3 Chinese players along the way!

Miu eliminated Ding Ning in the quarter final, Zhu Yuling in the semi final and Chen Meng in the final! Miu's celebration is absolutely brilliant!

The Final Moments! Women's Final

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Watch the highlights unfold in the video below:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmQUUcCRNaM

A new star has been born!

Ot Ot
04-15-2017, 02:52 PM
well done for her!!!......but she didnt beat LSW......perhaps Chen Meng shouldn't beat LSW in the first place?

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-15-2017, 03:08 PM
LIU Shiwen was very lucky to beat HIRANO. She was up 8-5 in the 4th set and had all the momentum with her, but at 8-6, HIRANO was leading the rally again, but LIU managed to make a very very lucky block which touched the edge of the table... That stopped the momentum of the Japanese.

To be honest, HIRANO had a lot of luck against DING Ning as well, one of the 5 match points she saved was with a FH attack along the line, which actually touched the edge of the table... Thats how a champion was born

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 03:13 PM
What I found really unfortunate was that there was not a single clap from the audience . Come on guys , a kid beat three of your best player , have the graciousness to acknowledge and congratulate the kid !

Ot Ot
04-15-2017, 03:17 PM
What I found really unfortunate was that there was not a single clap from the audience . Come on guys , a kid beat three of your best player , have the graciousness to acknowledge and congratulate the kid !

Yea come on ,have some sport spirit... :D

well, guess the chinese wasnt quite happy hehe...

Ot Ot
04-15-2017, 03:20 PM
I think her smaller size help her to move pretty fast, especially on her BH where she is very strong....

Chen Meng bh is good but not as fierce as Hirano... faster.


LIU Shiwen was very lucky to beat HIRANO. She was up 8-5 in the 4th set and had all the momentum with her, but at 8-6, HIRANO was leading the rally again, but LIU managed to make a very very lucky block which touched the edge of the table... That stopped the momentum of the Japanese.

To be honest, HIRANO had a lot of luck against DING Ning as well, one of the 5 match points she saved was with a FH attack along the line, which actually touched the edge of the table... Thats how a champion was born

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 03:21 PM
@Takkyu : If you find some interview of Miu , please see if you can get the time to translate for us ... I know she was saying some things after the match , but not sure if it was relevant ...


LIU Shiwen was very lucky to beat HIRANO. She was up 8-5 in the 4th set and had all the momentum with her, but at 8-6, HIRANO was leading the rally again, but LIU managed to make a very very lucky block which touched the edge of the table... That stopped the momentum of the Japanese.

To be honest, HIRANO had a lot of luck against DING Ning as well, one of the 5 match points she saved was with a FH attack along the line, which actually touched the edge of the table... Thats how a champion was born

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-15-2017, 03:21 PM
What I found really unfortunate was that there was not a single clap from the audience . Come on guys , a kid beat three of your best player , have the graciousness to acknowledge and congratulate the kid !

If you look at the whole video, there are some fun facts:

- LIU Shiwen and ZHU Yuling stop cheering for CHEN Meng and leave their seat [to go to the award ceremoney] BEFORE the end of the match. They didn't believe CHEN would make a comeback and didn't really care...
(anyway i never really saw LIU cheer at all...)
- HIRANO received some kind of chocolate box (lol) first , then a medal, and the cup at last. The first 2 officials, the one who gave the box and the one who gave the medal, coldly shook hands, looked embarassed to be there, gave the stuff and quickly left. Only the last official gave a real handshake and seemed to give a word of congratulations, and saved honour for Chinese politeness.
- KONG Linghui at the end didn't seem too harsh with CHEN Meng. She already had the face of a loser during the game, you could feel she was very nervous. After all, CHEN is below DING and about the same than ZHU, so it was not a surprise to the same HIRANO that beated her colleagues.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-15-2017, 03:23 PM
@Takkyu : If you find some interview of Miu , please see if you can get the time to translate for us ... I know she was saying some things after the match , but not sure if it was relevant ...

ok. Don't worry. Its a shame, the match was not on Japanese TV, the stars are Ishikawa and Fukuhara. But she's the new star, and from tomorrow her face will be everywhere on TV, and she will be invited in every possible TV show to do stupid things.

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 03:23 PM
Yes I noticed all that ... only Cai Zhenhua at the end and KLH after the match was mature enough to show some politeness ... the other officials , except the lady were very mechanical ... actually with all the players if you notice ...

If you look at the whole video, there are some fun facts:

- LIU Shiwen and ZHU Yuling stop cheering for CHEN Meng and leave their seat [to go to the award ceremoney] BEFORE the end of the match. They didn't believe CHEN would make a comeback and didn't really care...
(anyway i never really saw LIU cheer at all...)
- HIRANO received some kind of chocolate box (lol) first , then a medal, and the cup at last. The first 2 officials, the one who gave the box and the one who gave the medal, coldly shook hands, looked embarassed to be there, gave the stuff and quickly left. Only the last official gave a real handshake and seemed to give a word of congratulations, and saved honour for Chinese politeness.
- KONG Linghui at the end didn't seem too harsh with CHEN Meng. She already had the face of a loser during the game, you could feel she was very nervous. After all, CHEN is below DING and about the same than ZHU, so it was not a surprise to the same HIRANO that beated her colleagues.

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 03:25 PM
Yes , definitely not those shows with the stupid games and the comedians and the fake laughter ,in case they have some good interview ,...

ok. Don't worry. Its a shame, the match was not on Japanese TV, the stars are Ishikawa and Fukuhara. But she's the new star, and from tomorrow her face will be everywhere on TV, and she will be invited in every possible TV show to do stupid things.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-15-2017, 03:26 PM
平野美宇 is her Japanese name. If you Google her, you will have many links to the news.

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 03:27 PM
Thanks !

平野美宇 is her Japanese name. If you Google her, you will have many links to the news.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-15-2017, 03:28 PM
yes KLH bowed and reached for her. That was nice from him. Also she celebrated quite shyly. She's only a 17yo kid. How can one be mean with her ?

Ot Ot
04-15-2017, 03:38 PM
she was so happy like a kid jumping around ...........:)

LordPippington
04-15-2017, 04:07 PM
LIU Shiwen was very lucky to beat HIRANO. She was up 8-5 in the 4th set and had all the momentum with her, but at 8-6, HIRANO was leading the rally again, but LIU managed to make a very very lucky block which touched the edge of the table... That stopped the momentum of the Japanese.

To be honest, HIRANO had a lot of luck against DING Ning as well, one of the 5 match points she saved was with a FH attack along the line, which actually touched the edge of the table... Thats how a champion was born

Yeah, she got lucky 3 matches in a row ;)

TTHopeful
04-15-2017, 04:34 PM
Japan are coming! Watch out China!!

Tony's Table Tennis
04-15-2017, 04:44 PM
yes KLH bowed and reached for her. That was nice from him. Also she celebrated quite shyly. She's only a 17yo kid. How can one be mean with her ?

You do know that the coaches area is higher than the playing area?
If KLH didn't bow forward, there is no ways he could reach her hand

Imo, these new digital surrounds are too deep (causing coach and player to be further apart) and it is too high, causing coach/teams to sit in a higher position than normal

Tony's Table Tennis
04-15-2017, 04:50 PM
Looking forward to WTTC and Tokyo 2020
Miu has been improving every 3 to 4 months
She can only get better and get more confidence.
Her style is more complete, she is more aggressive and will only get more power.

Her serves will need to improve and she now faces a big group of Chinese tt scientist studying her.
Same token, she has Japanese TT scientist aiding her too

It amazes me what Japan can do in 15 years, the rest of the world can't

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 05:44 PM
Found some articles on her win , sharing here if others are interested

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2017/04/15/more-sports/hirano-completes-asian-championships-run-outplaying-cheng-final/#.WPJbkPkrLIU

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-04/15/c_136211301.htm

Vrael
04-15-2017, 08:01 PM
Looking forward to WTTC and Tokyo 2020
Miu has been improving every 3 to 4 months
She can only get better and get more confidence.
Her style is more complete, she is more aggressive and will only get more power.


During Rio I wrote in one of the topics that I think Miu Hirano, Mima Ito, Kasumi Ishikawa will be in a team for Tokyo 2020 and someone replied that Japan has a lot of young talented players, so anything can happen. I really like how Miu Hirano plays, but I have one concern. There are still 3 years untill Tokyo and her game is very physical. I hope she can avoid injuries and focus on training.

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 08:03 PM
She was already stretching her waist during the final match and I for one was worried ... blame the ITTF and plastic ball for all these nonsensical injuries that have been ruining so many careers ... on this I am in complete agreement with LGL.. but thomas weikart will get re-elected and sahara cronies will continue to run the show :( :(


During Rio I wrote in one of the topics that I think Miu Hirano, Mima Ito, Kasumi Ishikawa will be in a team for Tokyo 2020 and someone replied that Japan has a lot of young talented players, so anything can happen. I really like how Miu Hirano plays, but I have one concern. There are still 3 years untill Tokyo and her game is very physical. I hope she can avoid injuries and focus on training.

TTFrenzy
04-15-2017, 09:07 PM
well done for her!!!......but she didnt beat LSW......perhaps Chen Meng shouldn't beat LSW in the first place?

well chen meng beat lsw most of the time. styles makes fights I guess. LSW defeated CM in the super league this year but she had like 6-7 consecutive losses to her I think

tropical
04-15-2017, 09:08 PM
Everyone, except Chinese, loves to see a non-Chinese won a major tournament.

TTFrenzy
04-15-2017, 09:11 PM
What I found really unfortunate was that there was not a single clap from the audience . Come on guys , a kid beat three of your best player , have the graciousness to acknowledge and congratulate the kid !


dont forget that hirano is japanese. These videos below always get me :P


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RFTYDhbHqk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbhjhB-FF50&index=12&list=PLLwEVLnNcPYCMpbMwIHFarXwCO9blYXQP

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 09:58 PM
LOL , the first link does not open TTFrenzy

dont forget that hirano is japanese. These videos below always get me :P


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RFTYDhbHqk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbhjhB-FF50&index=12&list=PLLwEVLnNcPYCMpbMwIHFarXwCO9blYXQP

ttmonster
04-15-2017, 09:58 PM
It does after I replied :(
LOL , the first link does not open TTFrenzy

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-15-2017, 10:31 PM
During Rio I wrote in one of the topics that I think Miu Hirano, Mima Ito, Kasumi Ishikawa will be in a team for Tokyo 2020 and someone replied that Japan has a lot of young talented players, so anything can happen. I really like how Miu Hirano plays, but I have one concern. There are still 3 years untill Tokyo and her game is very physical. I hope she can avoid injuries and focus on training.

Ito is already wearing medical bands on her legs. She is the one looking a bit injured.

BTW I don't think Ito will make it to Tokyo 2020. Her performance has been poor lately, 2020 is 3 years away and there is quite a bunch of very good young Japanese players, I would bet that at least one of them would see their level explode. My bets would be on Hayata. Hamamoto is a bit behind technically but she is the most athletic. Maybe if she goes a few months in China she would become another player. Many other juniors as well, Nagao... Ito's style is a bit like Fukuhara with her special rubber. That doesn't work against the Chinese. It's too risky to play without spin. Fukuhara only grabbed a few minor wins against the Chinese.

Even Ishikawa's place isn't guaranteed. 2020 is a while away and I feel Ishikawa has already peaked. If she can maintain her current level, that may be enough, but she will be 3 years older and a bit slower in 2020.

Vrael
04-15-2017, 11:28 PM
I honestly don't think Ishikawa will be too old for Tokyo. She will be only 27, one year younger than Fukuahra was in Rio. Even if there are young talented players I don't think they will surpass her and having experienced senpai will definitely help.

As for Mima Ito I think she will be fine. Probably needs a little time and will be back. We shouldn't forget that she already beat Ding Ning.

At least this is my japanese woman dream team for Tokyo :D

Vector Operator
04-16-2017, 12:14 AM
She ROCKED the table tennis world! No more Super League for Hirano! LOL She's got skills & fearless! ೕ(•̀ᴗ•́)و She cracked open the Cosmic Egg! She 17! Could be here for 10 more years! This was no fluke! 3-2, 3-0, 3-0 ! Smashed them! The Japanese team has been flooding tournaments with talent! Sometimes up to 50 participants. A WAR of attrition! Today's victory was waiting to happen. Three Cheers to Japan Table Tennis!

Der_Echte
04-16-2017, 03:28 AM
ok. Don't worry. Its a shame, the match was not on Japanese TV, the stars are Ishikawa and Fukuhara. But she's the new star, and from tomorrow her face will be everywhere on TV, and she will be invited in every possible TV show to do stupid things.

HAHAHHAHAHHAHAH triple friggin' HAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHHHHHHAAAAA

I think you got that one dead on the head friend. It is gunna be total LULZ, you all know how to have fun.

countrybread
04-16-2017, 05:01 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if the Chinese players start reading notebooks between games.

Ot Ot
04-16-2017, 05:49 AM
if you notice she referring to the "secret manual" when playing with Ding Ning.

from 53:20

https://youtu.be/he_ZkP9duG8?t=53m20s

TT_Rogue
04-16-2017, 08:33 AM
12791China after losing a match

Tony's Table Tennis
04-16-2017, 09:53 AM
During Rio I wrote in one of the topics that I think Miu Hirano, Mima Ito, Kasumi Ishikawa will be in a team for Tokyo 2020 and someone replied that Japan has a lot of young talented players, so anything can happen. I really like how Miu Hirano plays, but I have one concern. There are still 3 years untill Tokyo and her game is very physical. I hope she can avoid injuries and focus on training.

Was it me? haha
Because I see lots of top youngsters not too far away (at that time and also now)
But I think with Miu's WC and Asian Champ result, she sure is in the lineup.
Ai is retired for sure. If she plays, she will only come back after being a mom (opps..... that I heard from a dinner table, don't think too much)
Ishikawa should be under heave pressure

I agree Mima, Miu and Kasumi are the 3, but which 2 will play singles :)
But then there are easily another 3 to 5 more than can show up still

Tony's Table Tennis
04-16-2017, 09:55 AM
I honestly don't think Ishikawa will be too old for Tokyo. She will be only 27, one year younger than Fukuahra was in Rio. Even if there are young talented players I don't think they will surpass her and having experienced senpai will definitely help.

As for Mima Ito I think she will be fine. Probably needs a little time and will be back. We shouldn't forget that she already beat Ding Ning.

At least this is my japanese woman dream team for Tokyo :D

Its not about age any more
its about peak
If Ishikawa can't improve more, and sure can't maintain, then even herself can't make the olympic singles by performance.
Miu is performing better than Ishikawa on a good day, and Miu hasn't peak yet

TableTennisDaily
04-16-2017, 10:11 AM
Highlights from the Women's Final: Miu Hirano vs Chen Meng


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmQUUcCRNaM

TTFrenzy
04-16-2017, 07:09 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if the Chinese players start reading notebooks between games.

Actually they did already. lsw used her notebook against ding ning in wttc 2011 semifinal

donS7er
04-17-2017, 07:57 PM
if you notice she referring to the "secret manual" when playing with Ding Ning.

from 53:20

https://youtu.be/he_ZkP9duG8?t=53m20s

Im courius, what is Ding Ning complaining/says with her coach after the match

TTFrenzy
04-18-2017, 12:32 AM
last set ding ning miu hirano

HIRANO

unforced errors 7

FH winners 3

BH winners 4

receive mistakes 1

net/edge balls 1

DING NING

unforced errors 1

FH winners

BH winners 1

receive mistakes 3

net edge balls 1

Now statistics are definitely not depicting 100% accurately what is going on in a match but they can give you an idea of +- of the players and then you can analyse further and complete an accurate "puzzle" of a match.

Hirano attacks everything early and definitely needs to work on her patience, ding ning moved her around but when she was focused and didnt haste the attack she dominated the table. Ding ning lost but the stats show how consistent she is, if she managed to read the serve better the match would probably go her way.

On the other hand if hirano matures a bit and learns how to adapt on each ball, she is definitely going to destroy many cnt women in the future. The 5th set especially in rallies was hirano all the way, ding ning scored only 1 winner !

So there is definitely a huge room for improvement for miu since she is only 17 yo. The 3-0 over zhu yuling and chen meng maybe indicate that she was better mentally and waited a bit more for the ball before killing it

All in all, when u lose and the opponent has 7 unforced errors, its definitely not the ball to blame nor the luck, the only player I have personally witnessed that is such a beast close to the table was LXX, hirano maybe is already on a higher level

TTFrenzy
04-18-2017, 12:34 AM
Im courius, what is Ding Ning complaining/says with her coach after the match

she said that hirano was lucky and before that she says that her attacks were beyond her imagination. I dont take such comments seriously because they are made right after a painful defeat Im sure ding ning will really grasp what is going on when she analyzes the video

tropical
04-18-2017, 12:40 AM
I want to see a video showing Miu's serving techniques.

NextLevel
04-18-2017, 03:30 AM
last set ding ning miu hirano

HIRANO

unforced errors 7

FH winners 3

BH winners 4

receive mistakes 1

net/edge balls 1

DING NING

unforced errors 1

FH winners

BH winners 1

receive mistakes 3

net edge balls 1

Now statistics are definitely not depicting 100% accurately what is going on in a match but they can give you an idea of +- of the players and then you can analyse further and complete an accurate "puzzle" of a match.

Hirano attacks everything early and definitely needs to work on her patience, ding ning moved her around but when she was focused and didnt haste the attack she dominated the table. Ding ning lost but the stats show how consistent she is, if she managed to read the serve better the match would probably go her way.

On the other hand if hirano matures a bit and learns how to adapt on each ball, she is definitely going to destroy many cnt women in the future. The 5th set especially in rallies was hirano all the way, ding ning scored only 1 winner !

So there is definitely a huge room for improvement for miu since she is only 17 yo. The 3-0 over zhu yuling and chen meng maybe indicate that she was better mentally and waited a bit more for the ball before killing it

All in all, when u lose and the opponent has 7 unforced errors, its definitely not the ball to blame nor the luck, the only player I have personally witnessed that is such a beast close to the table was LXX, hirano maybe is already on a higher level

The above analysis misses the whole point by saying that Hirano should learn to be more patient. It is her kamikaze approach that is her strength, she takes the Chinese approach to the next level similar to the men's game where while the Japanese would like you to make 100 shots in a row, the Chinese will like you to make 10 powerful shots in a row 70% of the time. It was the relentless of the pressure that drove her opponents mad, being more patient would have given Ding Ning the time to show her experience with better placement and heavy spin shots.

Ding Ning has always been a bit of a defender of the tradition of Zhang Yining but with a lefty game and possibly a bit more aggression. But Hirano is a playing male table tennis, going for first strikes and not caring about the misses with the goal of being able to win more points on average than her opponent, miss or make the shot. The misses are built into the style and are a feature, not a bug. The thing is that if she gets better at doing it, it might get so accurate that it looks like something other than what it is. Think of a female Fan Zhendong and then Hirano's style becomes clearer.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-18-2017, 03:42 AM
@NextLevel

i wonder how HIRANO Miu will be playing against defenders

NextLevel
04-18-2017, 05:26 AM
@NextLevel

i wonder how HIRANO Miu will be playing against defenders

IT is a great question, I really think it depends on the quality of the defender because she probably kills her teammates and has killed some defenders on the tour, though she struggled with Han Ying at the last World Tour final and could not take a game I believe - that could have been travel exhaustion though given the proximity to the WJTTC, but regardless, for me, Han Ying is the gold standard for defenders on the Women's tour, even more than Wu Yang, because Han goes out of her way to drive you crazy. When playing defenders, the power of the topspin counts for a lot, and I think in part that is where you see how powerful LSW really is in addition to her touch and versatilty. I think that whatever struggles Hirano has will pass as her topspin gets more and more powerful. She has lots of defensive practice partners so they will address it.

TTFrenzy
04-18-2017, 06:07 AM
NL im only talking about micro adjustments on timing. by patience i definitely dont mean striking when the ball id at its highest point if u watch the slow mo hirano makes tons of edge paddle misses. so its a matter of channeling the fzd instinct as you described it. fzd had lots of misses in easy balls at the same age.

NextLevel
04-18-2017, 06:19 AM
NL im only talking about micro adjustments on timing. by patience i definitely dont mean striking when the ball id at its highest point if u watch the slow mo hirano makes tons of edge paddle misses. so its a matter of channeling the fzd instinct as you described it. fzd had lots of misses in easy balls at the same age.

Understood. What you call patience is what I call getting better at what you do. Comes with mastery of your stroke and your seeing the ball better. Which all comes with age. You can't tell people to do it, they just become better with practice.

MegaZZ
04-18-2017, 08:31 AM
As a chinese ethnic Australian I just want to say...well done Miu! Against Ding Ning it was sheer brilliance gilded with psychological stability and daring to go for high quality shots under intense pressure. There can be many analyses what went wrong for the Chinese but it was 99.999 Miu who made it happen. I await your further successes with anticipation!
I would like to see another real competitor at the elite level!

Vrael
04-18-2017, 09:24 AM
@NextLevel

i wonder how HIRANO Miu will be playing against defenders

Here is her match against top chinese defender:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mSAiBJAN4M&

Yuen Yat Ming
04-18-2017, 10:47 AM
she is young, pretty and fast

ttpshot
04-18-2017, 01:06 PM
Hirano against Honoka Hashimoto in the semifinal of the Nationals this year:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-f9BYPUiM

Tony's Table Tennis
04-18-2017, 05:09 PM
Miu's success is that she is playing a male's game - will spotted NL
I don't think patience is a problem, that was her strategy.
Based on her experience and age, the unforced error is understandable and this should improve.
We also need to know that she is still growing and there are still lots of power that could be added in the future.
Her speed did surprise me

Miu was playing a higher risk, but higher reward game.
Any thing that comes onto the forehand, she will attacked with no mercy.

DN is indeed a more passive player, but I was surprise when she beat ZYL and CM so comfortably.
I think LSW (with her speed) and possibly the retired LXX as someone who can go head on head with an informed Miu

Miu does need to work on many errors to improve.
Also, one element was she had the element of surprise. Especially she has not won a single game against the 3 of them before on international level

Come the next time, CNT will be more prepared for her.
So the challenge is on, can Miu continue to master new techniques.

BTW, she has a team of 6 support staff.
1 x head coach
1 x Physio
1 x personal trainer
2 x practice partner
I actually can't remember what the 6th was lol

TTFrenzy
04-18-2017, 06:41 PM
Miu's success is that she is playing a male's game - will spotted NL
I don't think patience is a problem, that was her strategy.
Based on her experience and age, the unforced error is understandable and this should improve.
We also need to know that she is still growing and there are still lots of power that could be added in the future.
Her speed did surprise me

Miu was playing a higher risk, but higher reward game.
Any thing that comes onto the forehand, she will attacked with no mercy.

DN is indeed a more passive player, but I was surprise when she beat ZYL and CM so comfortably.
I think LSW (with her speed) and possibly the retired LXX as someone who can go head on head with an informed Miu

Miu does need to work on many errors to improve.
Also, one element was she had the element of surprise. Especially she has not won a single game against the 3 of them before on international level

Come the next time, CNT will be more prepared for her.
So the challenge is on, can Miu continue to master new techniques.

BTW, she has a team of 6 support staff.
1 x head coach
1 x Physio
1 x personal trainer
2 x practice partner
I actually can't remember what the 6th was lol

haha, thanks for the info tony I guess to beat the cnt army you definitely need a japanese army behind you. Someone also mentioned that hirano is the only full sponsored player by japan for tokyo2020 inside the women JNT

tropical
04-18-2017, 06:55 PM
She may have better chance than Timo Boll or Samsonov to stay longer at the top or may be just another stone for the CNT members to step over.

Tony's Table Tennis
04-18-2017, 07:04 PM
haha, thanks for the info tony I guess to beat the cnt army you definitely need a japanese army behind you. Someone also mentioned that hirano is the only full sponsored player by japan for tokyo2020 inside the women JNT

I'm not sure what "full sponsored player" is referring to.

But my sources (team mate / mates of a celebrity wedding of which the bride is from JNT) stated that JNT gave 6 boys and 7 girls (or is it the other way around), total of 13 players with a huge budget per player for a 8 year plan to Tokyo 2020. These 13 does not include your Ai's and Ishikawa's etc, these are all younger players.

This is the reason why you have all these "kids" playing in every international possible for the past 2 years already. This must be some sort of record.

In WJTTC for example, of the 8 kids, JNT contingent was over 40 people.
I saw 1 player with 2 to 3 adults per table at the warm up hall.
Then there is camera crew - recording every table of "concern".
I saw someone making notes - per player's match. And the notes are pages per game, not just point form.
I also saw lots of parents/family that travel with to support

If Miu is "full sponsorship", then I can tell you JNT 10% sponsorship is more than your average international player lol

Vrael
04-18-2017, 09:55 PM
I think that "fully sponsored" is sponsorship given from the goverment to 1 male and 1 female athlet, but I could be wrong here.

ttpshot
04-19-2017, 12:56 AM
OK, here's how it works.

When you see a Japanese player at the PT practice hall, he/she got there by one of these way:

1) National team/Junior national team
Funded by JTTA. Need to be in the squad to be eligible.
Eg. Mizutani, Niwa, Ito.

2) Elite Academy
This is the big one. Funded by JOC. It was formed with the new National Training Center which takes juniors from TT as well as other sports (Fencing, Wrestling etc) and train them with state of art facilities and coaches until 18. It's been hit & miss for TT and it's only recently that they started to develop top players.
Eg. Harimoto, Hirano, Hamamoto.

3) Schools/Corporates
They have been the biggest development force in Japan for a long time. Only a few years ago, majority of mens NT are from same high school(Mizutani, Niwa, Matsudaira, Yoshida). They too have a set budget so that the students can gain international experience as well as earn ranking points. Corporate teams usualy sign a contract with players which allow them to participate in several tournaments par year.
Eg.Ueda, Morizono.

4)Individual sponsorships

Technicaly there are 2 subtypes that fall under this category. One is a professional player who earns a living by playing abroad and hires his own crew but only Mizutani does that. The other one was started by none other than Ai Fukuhara. She was attracting nation's attention since she was 4 as a TT prodigy and turned pro by the age of 10. Since then, she formed Team Fukuhara and was copied by other top women (Ishikawa, Ito, Hirano).

Of course some of them overlaps(Ishikawa was under 1/3/4 until 18) and that's why you see huge number of junior players as some are funded by JNT and some by Elite Academy. JTTA has stated that the selection criteria for WC and olympic is world rankings so that's why they tried to particpate in as many PTs as possible.

jamesmith
04-19-2017, 01:29 AM
it is not luck Hirano beat three top Chinese players, she was sharp, fast, good reaction, good concentration, she was in top form, on the other hand, Chinese players ( including man team ) this time they were not sharp at all. We can not judge with one one match to say who is the best now, Hirano may not be easy to deal with Chopper player, the game will be slow, it may not be her cup of tea at all. We have to wait to see few more tournament first before we can see who is the best. So far she played very very well that day in the tournament. Player can play very well the first day or the first match but totally hopeless at the next game.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-19-2017, 04:19 AM
Why did Miu Hirano win ? Answer here (in Japanese), because she managed to develop a new more agressive style


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4dwC-wnAtw

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-19-2017, 04:23 AM
receiving her birthday cake,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVhP-WEosm4

(so on Ding Ning match day), she just expresses her wish to become more feminine and lose some extra kilos !!!! WTF , LOL

Tony's Table Tennis
04-19-2017, 06:41 AM
OK, here's how it works.

When you see a Japanese player at the PT practice hall, he/she got there by one of these way:

1) National team/Junior national team
Funded by JTTA. Need to be in the squad to be eligible.
Eg. Mizutani, Niwa, Ito.

2) Elite Academy
This is the big one. Funded by JOC. It was formed with the new National Training Center which takes juniors from TT as well as other sports (Fencing, Wrestling etc) and train them with state of art facilities and coaches until 18. It's been hit & miss for TT and it's only recently that they started to develop top players.
Eg. Harimoto, Hirano, Hamamoto.

3) Schools/Corporates
They have been the biggest development force in Japan for a long time. Only a few years ago, majority of mens NT are from same high school(Mizutani, Niwa, Matsudaira, Yoshida). They too have a set budget so that the students can gain international experience as well as earn ranking points. Corporate teams usualy sign a contract with players which allow them to participate in several tournaments par year.
Eg.Ueda, Morizono.

4)Individual sponsorships

Technicaly there are 2 subtypes that fall under this category. One is a professional player who earns a living by playing abroad and hires his own crew but only Mizutani does that. The other one was started by none other than Ai Fukuhara. She was attracting nation's attention since she was 4 as a TT prodigy and turned pro by the age of 10. Since then, she formed Team Fukuhara and was copied by other top women (Ishikawa, Ito, Hirano).

Of course some of them overlaps(Ishikawa was under 1/3/4 until 18) and that's why you see huge number of junior players as some are funded by JNT and some by Elite Academy. JTTA has stated that the selection criteria for WC and olympic is world rankings so that's why they tried to particpate in as many PTs as possible.

So, is the 13 selective juniors for 2020 Tokyo part of number 2, or is it separate?
The number I heard was in the US millions per player for the 8 year period
I hear it was from JOC in preparation for Gold at Tokyo.

ttmonster
04-19-2017, 07:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V09bv6MDts

Tony's Table Tennis
04-19-2017, 07:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V09bv6MDts

I think this just shows how successful LGL is.
What he says is true for anything industry/thing in life.

CNT was too complacent and "snoozing" when comes to new technique.
This is a very big wake up call.

So just like anything else, you can be the best in your business, but if you never improve, never continue learning, then one day you will fall behind the rest of the world. And for most in history - they didn't even realize that.

ttpshot
04-19-2017, 07:53 AM
So, is the 13 selective juniors for 2020 Tokyo part of number 2, or is it separate?
The number I heard was in the US millions per player for the 8 year period
I hear it was from JOC in preparation for Gold at Tokyo.

That would be under number 2, they are state funded so to speak. "Normal" JNT members are funded by JTTA which is funded by JTTA subs and sponsors. Your figure would be about right although the exact amount per head is not disclosed. As I said, many Elite Academy players are also a member of JNT hence the confusion even within JTTA.

Initialy selected players in Elite Academy did not yield the results they were hoping for so now the selection criteria and the numbers have been revised to only take top juniors.

Tony's Table Tennis
04-19-2017, 07:57 AM
That would be under number 2, they are state funded so to speak. "Normal" JNT members are funded by JTTA which is funded by JTTA subs and sponsors. Your figure would be about right although the exact amount per head is not disclosed. As I said, many Elite Academy players are also a member of JNT hence the confusion even within JTTA.

Initialy selected players in Elite Academy did not yield the results they were hoping for so now the selection criteria and the numbers have been revised to only take top juniors.

Great
I personally don't follow JNT too much, but after being very close to Chiang-Ai's circle in Feb 2017
I get to learn more about how JNT operates

What I find the best is that the players can decide how to spend the money.

In most countries, the organization will decide for you, this leads to corruption, favoritism and possibly other problems.

In Japan's case, they can choose how to spend the money and the amount is near unlimited.
Not even in CNT is it a 6 staff to 1 player support structure.
CNT would be the closes ever to JNT in terms of this ratio

TTFrenzy
04-19-2017, 12:49 PM
Another tactical thingy I noticed in hirano's play is that she almost never pushes short. 9/10 times is long push varying the spin and go straight to the rally,simple yet so effective who needs short game when you are so damn good in the rally. Besides Im guessing due to her height she is in disadvantage compared to taller players @ in out movement short fh to long bh definitely needs an extra reach and bigger steps, especially when the opponent can redirect her and force her to another type of play

Tony's Table Tennis
04-19-2017, 06:01 PM
Another tactical thingy I noticed in hirano's play is that she almost never pushes short. 9/10 times is long push varying the spin and go straight to the rally,simple yet so effective who needs short game when you are so damn good in the rally. Besides Im guessing due to her height she is in disadvantage compared to taller players @ in out movement short fh to long bh definitely needs an extra reach and bigger steps, especially when the opponent can redirect her and force her to another type of play


Your first part about Miu starting the attack is correct.
This is actually common strategy - push the ball deep and ready for counter top spin.
There was no fear in the execution too.

One can say, since Miu never won before, then give it 100% and start the attack.
If you wait for the stronger player to start the attack, you will loose
So risk it and try your best. You fail, it is expected.
No pressure, and the rest was history :)

Regarding her height, I never really believe short is a problem
Deng Yaping is short
Wang Nan isn't tall
LSW is also short

Shorter players will just need to play closer towards the table, and for women's game, that is just fine

TTFrenzy
04-19-2017, 10:28 PM
Your first part about Miu starting the attack is correct.
This is actually common strategy - push the ball deep and ready for counter top spin.
There was no fear in the execution too.

One can say, since Miu never won before, then give it 100% and start the attack.
If you wait for the stronger player to start the attack, you will loose
So risk it and try your best. You fail, it is expected.
No pressure, and the rest was history :)

Regarding her height, I never really believe short is a problem
Deng Yaping is short
Wang Nan isn't tall
LSW is also short

Shorter players will just need to play closer towards the table, and for women's game, that is just fine

Yeah my bad, I guess its the rally ability anyway. Why complicate things and give opponent opportunity to push/flick pressurize you first when you can play at home soil

yogi_bear
04-20-2017, 01:37 AM
I love her sudden change of ball placement. it caight a lot of opponents off guard.

ttpshot
04-20-2017, 01:37 AM
Great
I personally don't follow JNT too much, but after being very close to Chiang-Ai's circle in Feb 2017
I get to learn more about how JNT operates

What I find the best is that the players can decide how to spend the money.

In most countries, the organization will decide for you, this leads to corruption, favoritism and possibly other problems.

In Japan's case, they can choose how to spend the money and the amount is near unlimited.
Not even in CNT is it a 6 staff to 1 player support structure.
CNT would be the closes ever to JNT in terms of this ratio

The biggest difference between CNT and JNT would be the quality of the coaches and practice partners.
At the Korea open JNT sent 17 staff and 20 players(+14 staff and 19 players who are not in JNT/EA), they are very capable players but nowhere near as skillful as CNT coaches.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-20-2017, 02:08 AM
it all starts here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2qHCDtr0is

ttmonster
04-20-2017, 03:00 AM
She must be so embarassed of this video now , its so funny and cute she keeps crying after losing ever point !

it all starts here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2qHCDtr0is

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-20-2017, 03:28 AM
Its Mima always crying, Hirano is the more positive kid. She put that last smash in the net, but she rarely does that nowadays...

tropical
04-20-2017, 04:01 AM
They were so adorable!

ttmonster
04-20-2017, 04:29 AM
You are right ! I was so wrong , should have seen the resemblance right away !

Its Mima always crying, Hirano is the more positive kid. She put that last smash in the net, but she rarely does that nowadays...

Ot Ot
04-22-2017, 01:30 PM
photo taking please say cheeze!

12850

Sali
04-22-2017, 02:13 PM
it all starts here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2qHCDtr0is
Completely stupid how those guys behaving and showing their merciless to the children. Small kid is crying and big guy is having fun - sad!

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-22-2017, 04:29 PM
this is from a TV program yesterday. Have a special look at around 7mns to see a young Miu playing against Ai-chan !!! It explains a lot of things


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbr6bEDGXlg

Tony's Table Tennis
04-23-2017, 08:41 AM
The biggest difference between CNT and JNT would be the quality of the coaches and practice partners.
At the Korea open JNT sent 17 staff and 20 players(+14 staff and 19 players who are not in JNT/EA), they are very capable players but nowhere near as skillful as CNT coaches.

I don't agree with you here.
Since what, like 15 years ago? or more, you have ex Chinese pros going to Japan to be practice partners and coaches.
The result have already produced how many Top 10 players in the world??

Some of the result is even better than CNT A team coaches,
So how does one determine the quality of the coach? is it the result of the individual player??

I would say today's Japan with its coaches and practice partners are much stronger than 10 years ago.
Maybe the overall domestic structure inside Japan is still weaker than Chinese, but Japan has money to buy in coaches and practice partners, that is enough to start strength the super power house of China

Lets talk of Miu current coach.
If he stayed in China, he would never made it to CNT
But he developed a World Cup champion, Asian Champ and what is more important for me is - new technique.
This new technique is something that KLH is slightly behind with....

This is why now CNT is going 1 to 1 ratio on the womens team. To give more focus on its star players

Tony's Table Tennis
04-23-2017, 08:47 AM
this is from a TV program yesterday. Have a special look at around 7mns to see a young Miu playing against Ai-chan !!! It explains a lot of things


Obviously only able to read the few chinese words, I can't really understand this video
But from what I see, as a kid growing up, it is so important you have "kid heros"
Ai's success as a kid/cadet must have directly and indirectly pave the path for other kids to follow

Dream is one task I as a coach that is very difficult to set for kids.
I guess in Japan, it will be easier than most other countries.

zoomtt
04-26-2017, 08:51 PM
Although a bit late, here it is a new article we have just published about Miu Hirano's match against Ding Ning:

https://zoomtt.com/2017/04/26/ding-ning-miu-hirano-beating-china-beating-the-odds/

I hope you find it interesting!

Takkyu_wa_inochi
05-06-2017, 06:55 AM
for those who don't know them yet, introducing the Hirano sisters, there are 2 other sisters coming soon !!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQTH7dLNMA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mecqiUONEcU

not 100% sure but i think the 1st sister's name is Sewa and the youngest Ako (12 years). They seem to have already some very good results. Ako plays with long pimples. Mommy is coaching

On a sidenote, MURAMATSU Yuto is a cousin of the HIRANOs

Tony's Table Tennis
05-06-2017, 07:47 AM
What amazes me about Japan is

1) how many international teams has lots of siblings
2) the saying of that you can't coach (or teach) your own kids is not really the case for Japan, due to the utmost respect in the traditional culture for the ones that still holds them.

I was sitting next to the mom at WJTTC 2016, and the sacrifice + support is huge.
How many juniors I see that have maybe less than 10% support of Miu and the others.

I can tell you, CNT is panicking due to the huge influx of really good juniors coming out of Japan

TTFrenzy
05-07-2017, 12:32 AM
Although a bit late, here it is a new article we have just published about Miu Hirano's match against Ding Ning:

https://zoomtt.com/2017/04/26/ding-ning-miu-hirano-beating-china-beating-the-odds/

I hope you find it interesting!


Great stuff ! We need more of this !

ttpshot
05-08-2017, 01:00 AM
What amazes me about Japan is

1) how many international teams has lots of siblings
2) the saying of that you can't coach (or teach) your own kids is not really the case for Japan, due to the utmost respect in the traditional culture for the ones that still holds them.

I was sitting next to the mom at WJTTC 2016, and the sacrifice + support is huge.
How many juniors I see that have maybe less than 10% support of Miu and the others.

I can tell you, CNT is panicking due to the huge influx of really good juniors coming out of Japan

Yes, some story you hear is on the verge of child abuse to be honest.
For eg. Mima Ito was trained by her mom for 7 hours a day until 11pm while she was still in kindergarden and frequently kicked out from her house.

Many coaches in my local area have a story to tell regarding Hirano's mom when Miu was playing in local tournaments. She was acting like she was running the tournament and always bending the rules to suit Miu back then.

Having said that, that kind of sefishness and obsessiveness is probably necessary to create a champion.

ttmonster
05-08-2017, 01:29 AM
I don't really think its necessary , its common that is true .. but for every Andre Agassi there is a Roger Federer ...
for every Miu Hirano there is a CCY ... whose mom sold everything to support his son's talent ...

if Miu is doing what she is doing to satisfy her mom's dreams ... she will soon run out of motivation .. she might win a few tournaments ... but she won't be able to fulfill her true potential ... and forget about coping with life after table tennis ..


Yes, some story you hear is on the verge of child abuse to be honest.


Having said that, that kind of sefishness and obsessiveness is probably necessary to create a champion.

Tony's Table Tennis
05-08-2017, 11:26 AM
Yes, some story you hear is on the verge of child abuse to be honest.
For eg. Mima Ito was trained by her mom for 7 hours a day until 11pm while she was still in kindergarden and frequently kicked out from her house.

Many coaches in my local area have a story to tell regarding Hirano's mom when Miu was playing in local tournaments. She was acting like she was running the tournament and always bending the rules to suit Miu back then.

Having said that, that kind of sefishness and obsessiveness is probably necessary to create a champion.


Well, isn't all your champions and top in the world are child abuse or human abuse?
Think your US Navy seals, is there no human abuse in training?
Kids are normally still doing homework at 11pm if parents are pushing the academic route in a couple of far eastern countries. 99% in a test is a failure too

And regarding the parents getting involved politically and influencing.
one doesn't need to be a champion for parents getting involved. It happens all the time, every where - including amateur level

Tony's Table Tennis
05-08-2017, 11:30 AM
I don't really think its necessary , its common that is true .. but for every Andre Agassi there is a Roger Federer ...
for every Miu Hirano there is a CCY ... whose mom sold everything to support his son's talent ...

if Miu is doing what she is doing to satisfy her mom's dreams ... she will soon run out of motivation .. she might win a few tournaments ... but she won't be able to fulfill her true potential ... and forget about coping with life after table tennis ..

Technically, she didn't sell everything,
only 2 properties

and sold another 2, to help fund the training centre :p

Luckily Jerry Guo is donating a big amount a year for the running of the centre and funding of the players. This is for 5 or 6 years.
But the fund is kept by the sports department, and CYTTC needs to apply for each small amount just like one would apply for any gov funding.

Luckily when CCY gotten to some heights, the funding started to come in,
Ie at first it was First bank (met the head coach for lunch in Feb), now it is Co-Op bank (my friend there is the head coach)
at first bank, ccy as a player would earn 5000 US a month, and that was for life (should he retire from sport, he can work in the office, or work as a coach for the sport team)