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Gourav Acharya
04-18-2017, 02:19 PM
I wanted to know what 'ABS' stands for. Also how are the dhs ABS balls compared to nittaku premium?

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ajtatosmano2
04-18-2017, 02:54 PM
People say their playing characteristics are nearly equal. ABS is the name of the material, same as with the Nittaku Premium.

Baal
04-18-2017, 03:06 PM
ABS stands for Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene

D40+ balls are very similar to the Nittaku Premium but are slightly heavier and it appears that they use a slightly different method to seal the two ball halves together. D40+ balls and Nittaku Premium play closer to celluloid than other plastic balls, and are more like each other than they are to any other plastic ball. The D40+ ball is extremely round and almost impossible to break and is also substantially less expensive than Nittaku.

(One other pro tip, if you use the search function can find you several threads about this here).

Baal
04-18-2017, 03:09 PM
Here is Nittaku's patent application for ABS balls. By the way, the ABS material comes in several grades, but is typically quite hard. The hardness seems to make some people think the balls are heavy, they certainly feel that way, but actually the Nittaku Premium balls are the lightest 40+ balls sold today.

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2014175132

Gourav Acharya
04-18-2017, 03:26 PM
Thanks for the info guys!!

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suds79
04-18-2017, 03:46 PM
I'm pretty sure when someone says abs, they mean abdominals. As in the muscle.

So clearly it's DHS Abdominals. The core muscles of the balls must be strong.

#TheMoreYouKnow

Cornel
04-18-2017, 05:46 PM
I'm pretty sure when someone says abs, they mean abdominals. As in the muscle.

So clearly it's DHS Abdominals. The core muscles of the balls must be strong.

#TheMoreYouKnow

Actually I'm pretty sure it stands for Anti-lock Braking System. DHS Anti-lock Braking System - we'll brake your game without actually locking it.

Baal
04-18-2017, 07:18 PM
Actually it stands for Asset Backed Security. Which means that if you lose a match played with these balls, DHS and ITTF seize all your assets.

Just to add a little interest and motivation in the match.

ajtatosmano2
04-18-2017, 09:27 PM
https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F4%2F42%2FABS_Logo_Small_mono.png

Gourav Acharya
04-19-2017, 02:19 AM
I'm pretty sure when someone says abs, they mean abdominals. As in the muscle.

So clearly it's DHS Abdominals. The core muscles of the balls must be strong.

#TheMoreYouKnow
Lol sure

yourock
04-19-2017, 06:24 AM
ABS stands for Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene

D40+ balls are very similar to the Nittaku Premium but are slightly heavier and it appears that they use a slightly different method to seal the two ball halves together. D40+ balls and Nittaku Premium play closer to celluloid than other plastic balls, and are more like each other than they are to any other plastic ball. The D40+ ball is extremely round and almost impossible to break and is also substantially less expensive than Nittaku.

(One other pro tip, if you use the search function can find you several threads about this here).



I wouldn't agree DHS D40+ is that similar to Nittaku. I tried all types of balls, in terms of ball perception at play, I have more faith in seamless ball, Nittaku, Butterfly G, then DHS D, (better --- less good sequence)
DHS new ball is cheap, but we will see whether quality will be satisfying and if they could make sure the availability around the world.
ABS is quite broad range of plastic, not a specific material name.


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Baal
04-19-2017, 01:42 PM
I wouldn't agree DHS D40+ is that similar to Nittaku.
ABS is quite broad range of plastic, not a specific material name.



You are about the only person I have read who thinks that D40+ is not similar to Nittaku. I can tell the difference but I kind of had to train myself to do it by alternating rallies with one ball or the other. Transition from one to the other is very very easy for me.

As for ABS, it is not a single material, as compositions can vary depending on how much the polymer is cross-linked. Different ABS compositions can have different hardness and specific weight (which I alluded to in my comment above), in general all ABS plastics are quite hard. But clearly it can be distinguished from cellulose acetate in pretty much all of its mechanical and chemical properties. By analogy, celluloid was not a single material either.

NextLevel
04-19-2017, 01:57 PM
I wouldn't agree DHS D40+ is that similar to Nittaku. I tried all types of balls, in terms of ball perception at play, I have more faith in seamless ball, Nittaku, Butterfly G, then DHS D, (better --- less good sequence)
DHS new ball is cheap, but we will see whether quality will be satisfying and if they could make sure the availability around the world.
ABS is quite broad range of plastic, not a specific material name.


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I have tried all balls including the V40+ from Dfish. I couldn't disagree with you more, there is more similarity between the seamed ABS balls than between seamed ABS balls and other plastic balls.

suds79
04-19-2017, 02:19 PM
Our club plays with Gambler 40+ 3 star balls. They're seamless and I think a good quality ball. We rarely have breaks. If anything, 95% of our ball breaks happen because a player unknowingly steps on them. They go for about a dollar a ball which isn't bad.

I ordered from ttnpp some of these new DHS balls and I'm curious to hit with them & get players from club's thoughts.

Will report what I find.

Baal
04-19-2017, 04:31 PM
By the way, I suspect the ABS formulation in D40+ is not identical to NP40+ because of the markedly improved durability of D40+. (It is not that the Nittaku has bad durability, it is more or less ok, but the D40+ is freaking indestructible). There is also a slight but noticeable difference in sound. The D40+ is a little higher pitch on bouncing.

yourock
04-20-2017, 03:41 AM
You are about the only person I have read who thinks that D40+ is not similar to Nittaku. I can tell the difference but I kind of had to train myself to do it by alternating rallies with one ball or the other. Transition from one to the other is very very easy for me.

As for ABS, it is not a single material, as compositions can vary depending on how much the polymer is cross-linked. Different ABS compositions can have different hardness and specific weight (which I alluded to in my comment above), in general all ABS plastics are quite hard. But clearly it can be distinguished from cellulose acetate in pretty much all of its mechanical and chemical properties. By analogy, celluloid was not a single material either.

Ball manufacturers are reluctant to disclose what exact material their balls are made of. Different brands try to sell their balls by claiming one certain material is superior to others, such as ABS even though ABS is purely one of the most basic plastic material in all, and even though some are not ABS but still claim it's ABS.

It's a good thing to see DHS could offer us much better quality. But I am also worried if quality stays same good when they put into mass production. Like other posts, will they decrease quality after the election? Will they raise price after wins consumers' heart back?

We will see what happens. Seen worse before, I guess I could bear any bad news.


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yourock
04-20-2017, 03:48 AM
I have tried all balls including the V40+ from Dfish. I couldn't disagree with you more, there is more similarity between the seamed ABS balls than between seamed ABS balls and other plastic balls.

Sounds like people are referring to NITTAKU balls as a standard good ball. Well, got to admit it's good, just bad availability.


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parkash.imangry
05-18-2017, 09:37 AM
These dhs balls I ordered from ttnpp have so far not very durable. Xushaofa could outlive it atleast 5 times.

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Baal
05-18-2017, 11:17 AM
This last statement is contradicted by every other report from many people who have used d40+. You must have ordered the wrong dhs balls.

yuri.saldon
05-18-2017, 11:22 AM
This last statement is contradicted by every other report from many people who have used d40+. You must have ordered the wrong dhs balls.
I fully agree with you. The durability is at least the same

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parkash.imangry
05-18-2017, 11:58 AM
I fully agree with you. The durability is at least the same

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What do you think? Are they the wrong ones?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170518/379b90b9a1c1203fe3f89987f7fe78dd.jpg

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yoass
05-18-2017, 03:23 PM
When you see Ding Ning you just know it's gotta be the right thing!

parkash.imangry
05-18-2017, 04:33 PM
When you see Ding Ning you just know it's gotta be the right thing!
Yeah. In about 10-12 hours, 5 balls have been broken up. May be a bad lot? Compared to xushaofa ones, the life is veryyyy short.

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yuri.saldon
05-18-2017, 04:54 PM
Yeah. In about 10-12 hours, 5 balls have been broken up. May be a bad lot? Compared to xushaofa ones, the life is veryyyy short.

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Yeah. In about 10-12 hours, 5 balls have been broken up. May be a bad lot? Compared to xushaofa ones, the life is veryyyy short.

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yuri.saldon
05-18-2017, 04:55 PM
I am playing with the same ball for 28 days. More than 10 hours a week and I'm using the same ball and still roundness.

PS: I hit the edge a lot

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Baal
05-18-2017, 07:15 PM
Some people say the balls don't spin and some people say they are too hard, but the one thing just about everybody agrees about with respect to the DHS D40+ *** ball is that it is incredibly durable and virtually indestructible. This is a repeated theme on the very long MyTT thread about these balls

But it is definitely the right box.

I sure hope this means they don't have QC problems!!!!!!

UpSideDownCarl
05-18-2017, 08:36 PM
A bad batch or counterfeit?

Maybe those are the National Team version? [emoji2]Uh-oh, the goon squad is after me again.


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ttmonster
05-18-2017, 09:18 PM
I have decided to remain a nittaku premium addict , as Der_echte likes to call them ... DHS does not spin enough for me and throws my timing off ...

NextLevel
05-18-2017, 09:36 PM
I have decided to remain a nittaku premium addict , as Der_echte likes to call them ... DHS does not spin enough for me and throws my timing off ...

You gotta move beyond this if you want to get good, your timing should be tied to the ball bounce. The spin, I understand that is to each his own. But you could hear CNT arguing that the Nittaku ball spins less than the DHS ball especially when generating backspin for short push.

ttmonster
05-18-2017, 09:41 PM
Thanks NL , I will try to give it a fair shot ...

You gotta move beyond this if you want to get good, your timing should be tied to the ball bounce. The spin, I understand that is to each his own. But you could hear CNT arguing that the Nittaku ball spins less than the DHS ball especially when generating backspin for short push.

parkash.imangry
05-19-2017, 05:44 AM
May be just a bad batch then I guess.

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TTHopeful
05-19-2017, 06:02 AM
Will this ball start being used in most majors?

I wonder why WTTC will use Nittaku Prem?

yourock
05-19-2017, 09:42 AM
Will this ball start being used in most majors?

I wonder why WTTC will use Nittaku Prem?

because DHS ball was shit when decision was made for ball at WTTC. And it's told DHS and NIttaku are business partners and have offices in same building in Shanghai.


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Baal
05-19-2017, 11:59 AM
Yourock is right on both counts. Nittaku and DHS have collaborted for decades. The Nittaku cellu,oid ball made in China was a rebranded DHS.

TTHopeful
05-19-2017, 01:44 PM
because DHS ball was shit when decision was made for ball at WTTC. And it's told DHS and NIttaku are business partners and have offices in same building in Shanghai.


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Ah, this is why their is a Nittaku Hurrane....

yuri.saldon
05-19-2017, 06:18 PM
I think dhs have made a contract to be the ball of all world tours but wttc ball is open. If I am not wrong 2015 wttc was used butterfly​ ball (a rebranded dhs one)

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suds79
05-22-2017, 01:44 PM
Had a good hit with these DHS 40+ balls last night. Our club has tested them out a few weeks now.

Honestly the biggest complaint or note is that some members say they sound different on the bounce than what they are use to which is the Gambler 40+ seamless ball. It's so faint to me, I think it's splitting hairs. I'm 100% convinced that if we hit with these new DHS balls for a month and then ordered a batch of Gamblers, they would then say the Gamblers bounce sounds funny. It's all what you're use to.

I play pips so my game isn't spin oriented. I can't really tell a difference. We have a lot of members who like the ball. In playing against our best club member who is 2000 something USATT, yeah he can smoke & spin that ball all the same as he did back in the celluloid days. While quality of ball matters (of which this one is really high), it reminded me that it's really about technique to achieve high quality shots of which he can do.

He also wants a ball that carries a little more clout or a ball "they use in tournaments". While that's tricky because that differs depending on where you play, the fact that they've used the DHS ball in ITTF events is good enough for us.

I like the ball.

We ordered a large batch for club from TTNPP. Should have them in a couple of weeks.

PS - on a durability note, I have not heard of us breaking a single ball from play. IMO, it's very, very durable... Players accidentally stepping on balls is always much more likely. :/

krro
05-23-2017, 12:22 PM
Will Stiga och other brands start using the same plastic in their balls also?

suds79
05-23-2017, 01:07 PM
Will Stiga och other brands start using the same plastic in their balls also?

Well when Dima was talking about how much he liked this ball in his facebook post, I remember him indicating that Donic, who sponsors him i believe, will be coming out with an ABS plastic ball as well.

So I think it's a yes.... Possibly. ;)

Suga D
05-23-2017, 01:59 PM
Well when Dima was talking about how much he liked this ball in his facebook post, I remember him indicating that Donic, who sponsors him i believe, will be coming out with an ABS plastic ball as well.

So I think it's a yes.... Possibly. ;)

Could be, but i think it's rather because Donic and Nittaku seem to have had a Distribution cooperation.
While Donic is distributed in Japan by Nittaku (Think of the Dicon Blade)
Nittaku used to be distributed by Donic in Germany. Now Nittaku has a cooperation with Soulspin over here, but it seems that the Schreiner family still has good contacts in Japan, 'cause Sport-Schreiner (the company behind Donic) was selling the Nittaku NP40+ before Soulspin/Nittaku Germany had them....

krro
05-23-2017, 02:06 PM
Well when Dima was talking about how much he liked this ball in his facebook post, I remember him indicating that Donic, who sponsors him i believe, will be coming out with an ABS plastic ball as well.

So I think it's a yes.... Possibly. ;)

Sounds promising, a problem in Sweden is that most tournaments and league play uses Stiga balls so no point to practice with other balls. So hope Stiga release a ABS ball also!

AndySmith
05-23-2017, 02:40 PM
Sounds promising, a problem in Sweden is that most tournaments and league play uses Stiga balls so no point to practice with other balls. So hope Stiga release a ABS ball also!

It's very likely that any company who marketed a rebranded DHS 40+ ball (the original, rubbish one) will introduce a rebranded D40+ offering. It's either do that, stop selling a seamed plastic ball (supply of the original ball will dry up eventually), or switch to a different manufacturer (seamless, if they don't already offer both options - many do).

Also, you can make some educated guesses by checking the ball list regularly:

http://www.old.ittf.com/stories/Pictures/Balls_07_2017.pdf

For example, after DHS got the D40+ on the list, Donic added the P40+, Stiga added the Perform 40+, and Tibhar the SYNTT NG 40+. All seamed, all made in China. I would eat a cake shaped like my hat if they aren't all rebranded D40+ balls.

bobpuls
05-23-2017, 05:21 PM
i`v just got batch of ten pieces .... they looks in the hand different. Not so white ass 40+ , D40+ is slightly yellow and joint is less visible.
And re-branding will be not so easy ... they used a different color for some part of the text.

Murre5
05-26-2017, 01:13 PM
I don't really know how the ittf equipment list works. But I can see Donic, Stiga and Yasaka has a ball that I myself have never seen before added to the lists.

http://www.old.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/Balls_details.asp?ID=7314&Colour=&Company=&ID=&Stamp_colour=&
http://www.old.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/Balls_details.asp?ID=7305&Colour=&Company=&ID=&Stamp_colour=&
http://www.old.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/Balls_details.asp?ID=7301&Colour=&Company=&ID=&Stamp_colour=&

Could these be the new balls from them?

Ah andy already wrote about this :)

yourock
05-26-2017, 01:18 PM
I don't really know how the ittf equipment list works. But I can see Donic, Stiga and Yasaka has a ball that I myself have never seen before added to the lists.

http://www.old.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/Balls_details.asp?ID=7314&Colour=&Company=&ID=&Stamp_colour=&
http://www.old.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/Balls_details.asp?ID=7305&Colour=&Company=&ID=&Stamp_colour=&
http://www.old.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/Balls_details.asp?ID=7301&Colour=&Company=&ID=&Stamp_colour=&

Could these be the new balls from them?

Ah andy already wrote about this :)

I think Yasaka SL means SeamLess... so, should be a Xushaofa clone. Not DHS bastard.

Suga D
05-26-2017, 02:47 PM
I think Yasaka SL means SeamLess... so, should be a Xushaofa clone. Not DHS bastard.

Don't wanna be pidgeon holin', but technically speaking it's NOT a clone, but rather a rebranded XSF, since they're the only factory producin' seamless balls.
[emoji12]

yourock
05-28-2017, 12:31 AM
Don't wanna be pidgeon holin', but technically speaking it's NOT a clone, but rather a rebranded XSF, since they're the only factory producin' seamless balls.
[emoji12]

yes, brothers from same womb

jiaming322
05-28-2017, 03:06 AM
Is the DHS ABS Ball the same ball that is from the ITTF video?

jiaming322
05-28-2017, 03:06 AM
If so, why the manual quality control...

Murre5
05-29-2017, 11:54 AM
Easy, either it's not possible for a robot to do the quality control or it's cheaper with people.

idax9165
05-29-2017, 11:58 AM
Still, the best ball on the market is the nittaku double fish ***

divan4o
05-30-2017, 11:40 AM
DHS ABS is super ball