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View Full Version : Weight of Pro's rackets and blades



Ilia Minkin
04-22-2017, 03:49 PM
Just curious, is there any reliable info on the weights of whole rackets and blades of pro players?

I remember that while commentating Hungarian Open earlier this year, Adam Bobrow said that he tried Fang Bo's racket and it felt very heavy. Also in the recent "Room interview" a reported said that ML's blade was very heavy. I also wonder whether playing with a heavy racket is a conscious choice for a reason (e.g. better whip on forehand), or a consequence of using very hard and thick sponges.

yogi_bear
04-22-2017, 04:49 PM
Gao ning specifically asked for a 95 gram blade when he was sponsored by adidas.

Der_Echte
04-23-2017, 04:51 AM
OFF attacking pros tend to like the heaviest weight blades as they strike the ball with more force.

UpSideDownCarl
04-23-2017, 02:56 PM
OFF attacking pros tend to like the heaviest weight blades as they strike the ball with more force.

Come on Der, tell the story of Kim Jung Hoon coming into Nexy headquarters while you were there and how he chose blades.

You have first hand experience of seeing the process in action.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Shiro
04-23-2017, 03:20 PM
OFF attacking pros tend to like the heaviest weight blades as they strike the ball with more force.

Agreed. Sorry to be a nerd but in terms of physics, Force=Mass* Acceleration. The heavier the paddle and faster the swing, the strong the ball.

Ilia Minkin
04-23-2017, 08:19 PM
No doubt that a heavy racket gives advantage to player who can handle it, especially with forehand. Apart from extra momentum, it is more natural to make a whip-like stroke with a heavy racket (like Brett Clark teaches in his videos). I was just curious how actually heavy their rackets are. BTW, 95gr is not a surprising weight for a blade, I wonder if anybody really uses >100gr blades.

laistrogian
04-23-2017, 08:21 PM
No doubt that a heavy racket gives advantage to player who can handle it, especially with forehand. Apart from extra momentum, it is more natural to make a whip-like stroke with a heavy racket (like Brett Clark teaches in his videos). I was just curious how actually heavy their rackets are. BTW, 95gr is not a surprising weight for a blade, I wonder if anybody really uses >100gr blades.

I think JYS uses custom korbel that's very close to 100gr or over 100gr

Der_Echte
04-24-2017, 06:19 AM
Come on Der, tell the story of Kim Jung Hoon coming into Nexy headquarters while you were there and how he chose blades.

You have first hand experience of seeing the process in action.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

I said this story a few times already. I was on one of my random weekend visits to Nexy HQ in Korea. I lived 1.5 hrs bus or 2.5 hr subway ride away, so I only visited once a month on Saturday, or if I had a day off.

One day, I show up and the President tells me a pro, Kim Jung Hoon is coming. He gives me a German contract from Tibhar to look over. We read it together and I see nothing out of order and advise it looks legit good to go. I was practicing in the test room (They have a table in a 6x9 meter room, a little cramped, but enough to quickly try out gear.)

Then KJH shows up wearing Stiga, his contract with Stiga just ran out. He has a hockey sized jumbo jym bag with a dozen bats and gear. He pulls out three Nexy Peter Pan blades that have Genius or Calibra LT rubber on them. Nexy Peter Pan is a 5 ply OFF- to OFF all wood blade with a burned core. He breaks out bat number one and does a few loops to the president who blocks. KJH does a little scowl and breaks out bat number two, he does a few loops, tries a few more, then busts out bat number three. After his second loop he declares bat number three ans the heaviest and best blade. They had a number 1, 2 , and 3 on them. Nexy President admits 3 was the heaviest.

The test KJH did took only one minute. He knew in three seconds which bat was GOOD, number three.

The we go to the "Couch" we have had a few members post pics of and sit down to discuss his contract for 2012-2013 Bundesliga. That matter settled quickly, I was surprised to hear KJH ask about a new Nexy blade KJH. The pro Kim Jung Hoon wanted a 7 ply blade in OFF- to OFF speed burned core all wood based on the Peter Pan, but in 7 ply version with his name.

I was surprised to learn Korean Pros do not know what wood in what layer does what to the blade, but they sure know what right is when they feel it. Nexy Prez told KJH that it takes MINIMUM, likely longer, than 6 months to design a blade, get pre-production models, do testing and mods, round 2-3 of testing, then settle on final design, produce and ship to market.

I was there wating it and it amazed me. KJH gave me one pic with him, I saw him at Nexy HQ one more time before he left to Germany.

12855

Tony's Table Tennis
04-24-2017, 07:05 AM
Der_Echte
Its not just the Korean pros not knowing what wood in what layer does what to the blade.
In Chinese Taipei, they just want a stiff blade and they will just test the vibration of the blade and determine if it is good or not.

I guess pros just follow on training, EJ invest lots of time to understand blade construction lol

BeGo
04-24-2017, 07:39 AM
Agreed. Sorry to be a nerd but in terms of physics, Force=Mass* Acceleration. The heavier the paddle and faster the swing, the strong the ball.
Yes, provided the player have enough oomph to accelerate the aforementioned blade.

Still, come on, a ceramic plate is ~ 250 g, and a Teflon pan is ~ 600 g empty, cooking 1500 g of family meal. For those who cooks in the kitchen everyday, 100 g should not be that heavy. [emoji6]

I use a 140 g blade, with cog just 1 cm above the handle, and feel very light compared to Sardius.

Table tennis seriously need a swing weight ranking, kinda like what they use for golf clubs / equipment, to complement blade weight data. [emoji6]



Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

bobpuls
04-24-2017, 12:13 PM
I now what do you mean... This are my blades..

12857
12858

Airoc
04-24-2017, 02:24 PM
Its not just the Korean pros not knowing what wood in what layer does what to the blade.
In Chinese Taipei, they just want a stiff blade and they will just test the vibration of the blade and determine if it is good or not.

I guess pros just follow on training, EJ invest lots of time to understand blade construction lol

Exactly. If someone has an ALC and wants a little bit of extra "whatever" he´ll ask his manufacturer to build an "ALC with an extra bit of whatever", not one with a 0.1 mm thinner layer of this but a 0.25 mm thicker layer of that.

It is in the manufacturer´s hand to know - or find out via trial and error - how to achieve the "whatever".

Overall, I don´t think too many blades exceed the 100 gr mark. 90 to 95 grams is pretty normal for many attacking blades anyway, so I guess they pick something from the top of the range (if it feels good and well-balanced) and ignore anything below 90, and as always there are exceptions to the rule ;)

Baal
04-25-2017, 02:47 AM
I would very mich like a blade with more whatever. Where can I get one?

Ilia Minkin
04-25-2017, 03:29 AM
I would very mich like a blade with more whatever. Where can I get one?

Make a Der_Echte's BEAST MOD? :D IMHO adding nails and screws to the blade perfectly fits "whatever".

bobpuls
04-25-2017, 04:07 AM
Make a Der_Echte's BEAST MOD? :D IMHO adding nails and screws to the blade perfectly fits "whatever".
This was one of the craziest operation i ever seen .
There is simpler solution ... try to use heavy metal plate from Plumbum or copper or something like that and attach it on the end of the blade .... like old school butterfly tag ... this will shift the weight more towards your hand and the feeling rapidly change .
+ bonus you can first attach it with double side tape to test and chose the thickness your need before you attach it for sure.

Der_Echte
04-25-2017, 05:19 AM
Der_Echte
Its not just the Korean pros not knowing what wood in what layer does what to the blade.
In Chinese Taipei, they just want a stiff blade and they will just test the vibration of the blade and determine if it is good or not.

I guess pros just follow on training, EJ invest lots of time to understand blade construction lol

Tony, I'm with you. You spoke true.

I mentioned the pro's lack of understanding of material as the common amature would expect them to really know, but that isn't their focus as you say. They do a billion reps, don't miss, and know what feels right almost immediately.

D-Top Greg is gunna make a hit cartoon featuring all this stuff sometime down the road.

Is that Per Gerell over there?

ttmonster
04-25-2017, 06:20 AM
Its like anything else in table tennis ... yes Force = mass * accleration ... so you can change either of them to increase the power or change both :) . The pros have already developed their muscles and form to their maximum possible , so what remains for them is to increase the mass to get the most power. They already have the technique to reset as fast as possible .... so thats not a challenge for them ... for us amateurs thats is also a factor.
Now what Der suggests is slightly different where you shift the CG to the handle , their by actually simultaneously helping you to keep the "paddle up" during rallies and also gain the momentum from the additional weight without having a head heavy blade . Also gaining certain amount of feeling because the CG is now toward the handle the head will vibrate more., With pros , especially loopers they might actually prefer to have more weight on the head to use it a a sling to generate even more power ... for cricket afficiandos the equivalent being the comparison of the bats prefered by vivian richards / sachin tendulkar who were stroke players vs that of a Mohd. Azharuddin who was a touch player . richards and tendulkar wanted their CGs as far down as possible closer to the sweet spot with a weight that was heavier than what mortals can bear , compared to Azhar who preferred to play with a light blade and his game was all about maneuverability , touch and timing ...

there is a quantum difference in the abilities of a pro and an amateur so the solutions and the challenges would be quite different ..

Airoc
04-25-2017, 06:26 AM
I mentioned the pro's lack of understanding of material as the common amature would expect them to really know

There´s also the myth they´d constantly be testing new stuff. The opposite is more true. If something works, why change. Why waste time to adapt to something else that might work. Testing takes valuable time away from their daily work.

ttmonster
04-25-2017, 06:59 AM
It goes both ways , imagine being Roger federer and realizing that he could have won those matches against Nadal had he changed to a 98 sq inch frame a year before his Wimbledon final loss to him ....

There´s also the myth they´d constantly be testing new stuff. The opposite is more true. If something works, why change. Why waste time to adapt to something else that might work. Testing takes valuable time away from their daily work.

Ilia Minkin
04-25-2017, 01:48 PM
There is simpler solution ... try to use heavy metal plate from Plumbum or copper or something like that and attach it on the end of the blade .... like old school butterfly tag ... this will shift the weight more towards your hand and the feeling rapidly change .


That is a cool idea! Plumbum is toxic, though.

bobpuls
04-25-2017, 02:50 PM
Do not be wory so much, it is not when touching... And i do not think you will put it to your mouth.

Baal
04-25-2017, 03:02 PM
There´s also the myth they´d constantly be testing new stuff. The opposite is more true. If something works, why change. Why waste time to adapt to something else that might work. Testing takes valuable time away from their daily work.

The three former US team members I know at my club are incredibly conservative and resistant to ever even trying anything new. The only thing caused them to change is when they had finally realized that the last of their favorite blades, which have been out of production for a really long time, had reached the end of their useful life. And they all went to faster stuff, and all went from all-wood to composites (which I can report in two cases happened because they hit with my blade and said wow, this feels great). This corresponded to the time of introduction of the 40+ ball, and it was obvious to them after hitting with 40+ balls for a couple of weeks that they needed something a little faster. Barring something earth shaking like that, my impression is that most good players don't make changes.

In general I have the distinct impression that most really good players don't EJ at all.

Suga D
04-25-2017, 03:51 PM
The three former US team members I know at my club are incredibly conservative and resistant to ever even trying anything new. The only thing caused them to change is when they had finally realized that the last of their favorite blades, which have been out of production for a really long time, had reached the end of their useful life. And they all went to faster stuff, and all went from all-wood to composites (which I can report in two cases happened because they hit with my blade and said wow, this feels great). This corresponded to the time of introduction of the 40+ ball, and it was obvious to them after hitting with 40+ balls for a couple of weeks that they needed something a little faster. Barring something earth shaking like that, my impression is that most good players don't make changes.

In general I have the distinct impression that most really good players don't EJ at all.

Given that to most pro´s their bat is their extended arm or actually extended hand and is a tool to do their job in the best possible way, many only change their stuff when it´s necessary. Some might try out new things within a certain range, but that doesn´t happen a lot, ´cause like Airoc wrote, every change will mean a draw back and other players that haven´t changed their stuff might take off when one is stuck in the same spot ´cause one needs to adapt to the new equipment first and make it feel natural. So most people that earn their money with TT won´t try to hinder themselves by keeping trying out new stuff.

Ilia Minkin
04-25-2017, 03:56 PM
C'mon, how many blades Ma Long changed during his career and how many versions of his (allegedly) DHS blade are out there?

Suga D
04-25-2017, 04:08 PM
Well exceptions are natural. And there really might be a time for trying out new things, but not in the mid season or before important tournaments.
One shouldn´t forget that the change of ball size and material have been drastical changes. But not many would just experiment for no good reason. That´s absolutely not professional.
BTW: i still don´t believe Dima has tested the H3N at the last Worldcup.

Baal
04-25-2017, 06:29 PM
C'mon, how many blades Ma Long changed during his career and how many versions of his (allegedly) DHS blade are out there?

Yeah, he seems like a bit of an EJ. But I think he is not typical.

Vrael
04-25-2017, 06:41 PM
I heard that Ma Long is changing his blade every ~3months, because boosters have some effect on blades, but don't quote me on that