Best Butterfly ZLC blade

I have played with both the Photino and TB ZLC. For the photino i used Yasaka pryde on both sides whereas for the TB ZLC i used Donic' desto F1 on the forehand and hexer duro on the backhand. Photino was like quite fast for me for the loops, TB ZLC had a tad bit more control but still very fast.
i would rate the TB ZLC a bit higher than photino, even though none of them suited my playing style. If i had to choose one of them it would be the TB ZLC.
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,146
17,685
54,747
Read 11 reviews
I guess I should just not say anything. But this is the kind of thing that makes me fear for people's sanity and problem solving skills.

Best for what? Best for whom? You are using the word best as though it is empirical data that you are talking about. Not the subjective opinions and experiences of the different TT players who chose to buy one of those blades to which you are referring.

Alright everybody, what is the best food to eat? I would like a definitive answer on what food is the best. What movie is the best? What book is the best?

A better question for you to ask might be, based on your skill set, your level of play, your style of play, what you do well and what you need to improve, WHAT kinds of blades and rubbers would be most useful in HELPING YOU IMPROVE your skills.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Feb 2016
648
389
1,087
Just pick a blade that you think is fast enough but not too fast for you and you like how it plays.

In the end what's the point of using a blade that is fast where you can loop rocket shots but don't like the feeling of?

TBS and MJ ZLC has similar speed but they just feel different in the first place. For me it was worth paying double the amount of money to get a blade that I properly like. I'm using it now and I don't think there's any blade I like using better
 
This user has no status.
Okay then I'll rephrase: How are these blades characteristics different?
My assessment on Butterfly blades. I am not joking when I put Joo as blocker blade. [emoji28]

TypeBlade
Blocker Butterfly Andrzej Grubba Carbon
Blocker Butterfly Maze T-Tec ALL+
Blocker Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Andrzej Grubba
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Kong Linghui Euro
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Maze Passion
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Korbel Speed
Blocker Driver Butterfly Gergely 21
Blocker Driver Butterfly Gergely Carbon
Blocker Driver Butterfly Timo Boll W7
Blocker Driver Butterfly Nitchugo Super
Blocker Driver Butterfly Kreanga Aeros Off+
Blocker Driver Butterfly Chinese Tamca ULC
Blocker Driver Butterfly Aeolus S
Blocker Driver Butterfly Schlager Carbon
Blocker Driver Butterfly Mazunov
Blocker Driver Butterfly Ishlion
Blocker Driver Butterfly Sardius
Blocker Looper Butterfly Garaydia ZLC
Chopper Butterfly Defence Alpha
Chopper Butterfly Matsushita Pro
Chopper Butterfly Innershield ZLF
Chopper Butterfly Grubba Pro
Chopper Butterfly Jonyer Hinoki
Chopper Butterfly XStar
Chopper Butterfly Timo Boll Spark
Chopper Driver Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC
Chopper Driver Butterfly Innerforce ZLC
Chopper Driver Butterfly Photino Light
Chopper Driver Butterfly Schlager Precision
Chopper Driver Butterfly VSG-1000
Chopper Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ALL+
Chopper Looper Butterfly All Hinoki 5
Chopper Looper Butterfly Maze Performance
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kiso Hinoki V
Chopper Looper Butterfly Balsa Carbo X5
Chopper Looper Butterfly Innerforce AL
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kong Linghui
Chopper Looper Butterfly Jonyer Hinoki Special
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kong Linghui Special
Chopper Looper Butterfly Senkoh-1
Driver Butterfly Amultart ZL Carbon
Driver Butterfly Gergely Alpha
Driver Butterfly Innerforce T5000
Driver Butterfly Senkoh MAX
Driver Butterfly Timo Boll T5000 Tamca
Driver Butterfly Kreanga Carbon
Driver Butterfly Boll TriCarbon
Driver Butterfly Primorac Carbon
Driver Butterfly Firehand
Driver Butterfly Moonbeam
Driver Looper Butterfly Zhang Jike Super ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Zhang Jike ALC
Driver Looper Butterfly Jun Mizutani Super ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Iolite Neo
Driver Looper Butterfly Photino
Driver Looper Butterfly Jun Mizutani
Driver Looper Butterfly Schlager Carbon Light
Driver Looper Butterfly VSG-2000
Looper Butterfly Cypress-S
Looper Butterfly Liu Shiwen
Looper Butterfly Primorac EX
Looper Butterfly Innerforce ZLF
Looper Butterfly Keyshot Light
Looper Butterfly Keyshot
Non Blocker Butterfly Zhang Jike
Non Chopper Butterfly Iolite
Non Driver Butterfly Defence 2 (II)
Non Driver Butterfly Oh Sang Eun
Non Driver Butterfly Cofferlait Arylate Carbon
Non Driver Butterfly Primorac
Non Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ZLF
Non Looper Butterfly Timo Boll W5
Non Looper Butterfly Innerforce ALC
Non Looper Butterfly Kreanga Powerspin

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
I only own the Mizutani Super ZLC and the ZJK SuperZLC so my verdict would be this:
If you play more defensively take the ZJK, if you play offense away from the table, choose the Mizutani one.
Although i havent tried them, i know that the innerforce zlc and timo boll zlc are also very good blades similar to the zjk szlc.


peace!
 
  • Like
Reactions: BeGo
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Feb 2016
648
389
1,087
I'd say grab either Innerforce ZLC or the MJ ZLC. If you don't like them those 2 are probably the easiest to sell. However, I do think you should try a ZLC blade first to see if you like the carbon. I prefer ZLC over ALC but the reverse also applies to others.

But when in doubt, go with either TBS or Innerforce ZLC. I think these 2 blades are the most used blade professionally aside from korbel which is all-wood
 

NDH

says Spin to win!
I only own the Mizutani Super ZLC and the ZJK SuperZLC so my verdict would be this:
If you play more defensively take the ZJK, if you play offense away from the table, choose the Mizutani one.
Although i havent tried them, i know that the innerforce zlc and timo boll zlc are also very good blades similar to the zjk szlc.


peace!

If you play more defensively, get neither! lol
 
This user has no status.
If you play more defensively, get neither! lol
The ZJK szlc is ideal for punchblocking and pushing, not to mention the offensive capabilities if need be. There is no player that ONLY defends or ONLY attacks. This blade is for when you are leaning towards the defending side but still need that extra kick when the time comes.


peace!
 
  • Like
Reactions: BeGo
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Aug 2015
1,663
1,564
4,397
Read 13 reviews
My assessment on Butterfly blades. I am not joking when I put Joo as blocker blade. [emoji28]

TypeBlade
Blocker Butterfly Andrzej Grubba Carbon
Blocker Butterfly Maze T-Tec ALL+
Blocker Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Andrzej Grubba
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Kong Linghui Euro
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Maze Passion
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Korbel Speed
Blocker Driver Butterfly Gergely 21
Blocker Driver Butterfly Gergely Carbon
Blocker Driver Butterfly Timo Boll W7
Blocker Driver Butterfly Nitchugo Super
Blocker Driver Butterfly Kreanga Aeros Off+
Blocker Driver Butterfly Chinese Tamca ULC
Blocker Driver Butterfly Aeolus S
Blocker Driver Butterfly Schlager Carbon
Blocker Driver Butterfly Mazunov
Blocker Driver Butterfly Ishlion
Blocker Driver Butterfly Sardius
Blocker Looper Butterfly Garaydia ZLC
Chopper Butterfly Defence Alpha
Chopper Butterfly Matsushita Pro
Chopper Butterfly Innershield ZLF
Chopper Butterfly Grubba Pro
Chopper Butterfly Jonyer Hinoki
Chopper Butterfly XStar
Chopper Butterfly Timo Boll Spark
Chopper Driver Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC
Chopper Driver Butterfly Innerforce ZLC
Chopper Driver Butterfly Photino Light
Chopper Driver Butterfly Schlager Precision
Chopper Driver Butterfly VSG-1000
Chopper Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ALL+
Chopper Looper Butterfly All Hinoki 5
Chopper Looper Butterfly Maze Performance
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kiso Hinoki V
Chopper Looper Butterfly Balsa Carbo X5
Chopper Looper Butterfly Innerforce AL
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kong Linghui
Chopper Looper Butterfly Jonyer Hinoki Special
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kong Linghui Special
Chopper Looper Butterfly Senkoh-1
Driver Butterfly Amultart ZL Carbon
Driver Butterfly Gergely Alpha
Driver Butterfly Innerforce T5000
Driver Butterfly Senkoh MAX
Driver Butterfly Timo Boll T5000 Tamca
Driver Butterfly Kreanga Carbon
Driver Butterfly Boll TriCarbon
Driver Butterfly Primorac Carbon
Driver Butterfly Firehand
Driver Butterfly Moonbeam
Driver Looper Butterfly Zhang Jike Super ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Zhang Jike ALC
Driver Looper Butterfly Jun Mizutani Super ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Iolite Neo
Driver Looper Butterfly Photino
Driver Looper Butterfly Jun Mizutani
Driver Looper Butterfly Schlager Carbon Light
Driver Looper Butterfly VSG-2000
Looper Butterfly Cypress-S
Looper Butterfly Liu Shiwen
Looper Butterfly Primorac EX
Looper Butterfly Innerforce ZLF
Looper Butterfly Keyshot Light
Looper Butterfly Keyshot
Non Blocker Butterfly Zhang Jike
Non Chopper Butterfly Iolite
Non Driver Butterfly Defence 2 (II)
Non Driver Butterfly Oh Sang Eun
Non Driver Butterfly Cofferlait Arylate Carbon
Non Driver Butterfly Primorac
Non Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ZLF
Non Looper Butterfly Timo Boll W5
Non Looper Butterfly Innerforce ALC
Non Looper Butterfly Kreanga Powerspin

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

What's "non looper?"
 
  • Like
Reactions: UpSideDownCarl
This user has no status.
What's "non looper?"

Basically means good for all basic strokes except brush looping.

True allrounder is rare. Even Waldner and Samsonov almost never chop. I classify them as "non chopper".

I think only Ouaiche, the prominent true allrounder that I have seen on Youtube so far.

Now,

Imagine a player that play a rather flat game, that often block and chop block, and when nice ball came, he goes for the kill rather than to loop it.

This what I have in mind when picturing non looper style. Sadly, I cant find prominent example for this play style, sorry. [emoji28]



Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,146
17,685
54,747
Read 11 reviews
@ Zaid, I think, with all the classic EJ questions you have been asking, you should start thinking about what qualities the different kinds of wood have.

Like, what playing characteristics a blade with a Koto top ply has. Or a blade with a Limba top ply. Or Hinoki. What does Limba top and a Limba second ply next to each other feel like. How does that feel different from when Limba is on top of Spruce or Ayous.

About 7 years ago I went to a club called NYTTF in NYC's Chinatown. When I started going there I realized that one of the guys who worked there was a close, old friend. He was a lot better than me. And he was an outrageous EJ. While he was training me and helping me improve, he also would get people to let him try their rackets.

This club had hundreds of members. It is really sad it closed. But when he would borrow people's rackets to try, he would also make me try them. And he would ask me what I thought. What I felt. And tell me what he felt.

I tried so many different setups, thinking about it now makes my head spin. But by trying racket after racket and setup after setup, you start knowing what you like more and what works better for you.

There is one flaw in the process. Usually intermediate level players and players lower level than intermediate level tend to like rackets that are faster than they should use; perhaps they even feel they "need" something faster than what they should actually use.

An interesting piece of info: most pros use blades that are of a moderate speed. TB ALC, Viscaria, those are not very fast. They are moderate. And the pros who use them really have the skill to use them.

The pros who use blades that are faster than a Viscaria usually have a unique style which makes the faster blade choice make sense.

But in the end, if you are playing for fun, maybe it doesn't matter too much if you use a setup that hinders your development but makes you happy to have an expensive brand name and a well known status symbol setup.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BeGo and ttmonster
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,146
17,685
54,747
Read 11 reviews
More info. To be able to try and compare blades and really get the sense of how what they are good for and how the different blades are different, it really helps to have a baseline rubber for testing and to use it when you test each different blade.

And if you were testing different rubbers, to really be able to feel what different rubbers do well and don't do well, trying all the different rubbers on the same blade helps.

Another thing, even though ESN makes all the Bluefire and Evolution rubbers, there really isn't a Bluefire that is equivalent to MX-P and vice versa. ESN uses specs from each different company to make the different rubbers. And no ESN rubber really parallels T05. There are rubbers, like MX-P that perform similarly. But they are different rubbers. And even though you get comparable speed and spin when comparing MX-P and T05, they feel NOTHING ALIKE.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
  • Like
Reactions: BeGo and ttmonster
@ Zaid, I think, with all the classic EJ questions you have been asking, you should start thinking about what qualities the different kinds of wood have.

Like, what playing characteristics a blade with a Koto top ply has. Or a blade with a Limba top ply. Or Hinoki. What does Limba top and a Limba second ply next to each other feel like. How does that feel different from when Limba is on top of Spruce or Ayous.

About 7 years ago I went to a club called NYTTF in NYC's Chinatown. When I started going there I realized that one of the guys who worked there was a close, old friend. He was a lot better than me. And he was an outrageous EJ. While he was training me and helping me improve, he also would get people to let him try their rackets.

This club had hundreds of members. It is really sad it closed. But when he would borrow people's rackets to try, he would also make me try them. And he would ask me what I thought. What I felt. And tell me what he felt.

I tried so many different setups, thinking about it now makes my head spin. But by trying racket after racket and setup after setup, you start knowing what you like more and what works better for you.

There is one flaw in the process. Usually intermediate level players and players lower level than intermediate level tend to like rackets that are faster than they should use; perhaps they even feel they "need" something faster than what they should actually use.

An interesting piece of info: most pros use blades that are of a moderate speed. TB ALC, Viscaria, those are not very fast. They are moderate. And the pros who use them really have the skill to use them.

The pros who use blades that are faster than a Viscaria usually have a unique style which makes the faster blade choice make sense.

But in the end, if you are playing for fun, maybe it doesn't matter too much if you use a setup that hinders your development but makes you happy to have an expensive brand name and a well known status symbol setup.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Thanks for all the info. I myself don't want to buy a ZLC blade I just wanted to know their characteristics. ZLC type blades are ones that I have never tried so I don't really know how they play. (I've tried ALC, Spruce top layer, Limba top layer, Limba Limba, Carbon, Koto, etc) Also, personally I myself don't like really fast combos which is why I am using an Infinity.
 
More info. To be able to try and compare blades and really get the sense of how what they are good for and how the different blades are different, it really helps to have a baseline rubber for testing and to use it when you test each different blade.

And if you were testing different rubbers, to really be able to feel what different rubbers do well and don't do well, trying all the different rubbers on the same blade helps.

Another thing, even though ESN makes all the Bluefire and Evolution rubbers, there really isn't a Bluefire that is equivalent to MX-P and vice versa. ESN uses specs from each different company to make the different rubbers. And no ESN rubber really parallels T05. There are rubbers, like MX-P that perform similarly. But they are different rubbers. And even though you get comparable speed and spin when comparing MX-P and T05, they feel NOTHING ALIKE.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Oh but is there a Bluefire rubber that is 50 degrees hard, and has a medium to low throw? Or one that 47 degrees hard, high throw and with a big catapult?
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Aug 2015
1,663
1,564
4,397
Read 13 reviews
Basically means good for all basic strokes except brush looping.

True allrounder is rare. Even Waldner and Samsonov almost never chop. I classify them as "non chopper".

I think only Ouaiche, the prominent true allrounder that I have seen on Youtube so far.

Now,

Imagine a player that play a rather flat game, that often block and chop block, and when nice ball came, he goes for the kill rather than to loop it.

This what I have in mind when picturing non looper style. Sadly, I cant find prominent example for this play style, sorry. [emoji28]



Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk


you're going to get some arguments on your analysis :p


innerforce layer alc - chopper/driver
innerforce alc - non looper


difference between these is .1mm thickness.
I also only know loopers that play the "non looper" blade. I better let him know he's using it wrong since he's 2000. It's probably holding him back!
 
  • Like
Reactions: BeGo
Top