PDA

View Full Version : Best Butterfly ZLC blade



Zaid323918
05-02-2017, 12:14 AM
Hi all,
Out of all the ZLC blades: Photino, Amultart, Mizutani, Zhang Jike, etc which is the best overall?

Jaffar Lone
05-02-2017, 05:28 AM
I think you forgot to add Timo Boll ZLC , Garadiya ZLC and the Innerforce ZLC to this list.

Zaid323918
05-02-2017, 05:58 AM
oh yh i was just giving a general list but which is like the best/most popular

Zaid323918
05-02-2017, 06:03 AM
I also want to know how the Andro Trieber Z and Joola Aruna OFF blade are compared to ZLC blades

Jaffar Lone
05-02-2017, 06:05 AM
I have played with both the Photino and TB ZLC. For the photino i used Yasaka pryde on both sides whereas for the TB ZLC i used Donic' desto F1 on the forehand and hexer duro on the backhand. Photino was like quite fast for me for the loops, TB ZLC had a tad bit more control but still very fast.
i would rate the TB ZLC a bit higher than photino, even though none of them suited my playing style. If i had to choose one of them it would be the TB ZLC.

UpSideDownCarl
05-02-2017, 04:38 PM
I guess I should just not say anything. But this is the kind of thing that makes me fear for people's sanity and problem solving skills.

Best for what? Best for whom? You are using the word best as though it is empirical data that you are talking about. Not the subjective opinions and experiences of the different TT players who chose to buy one of those blades to which you are referring.

Alright everybody, what is the best food to eat? I would like a definitive answer on what food is the best. What movie is the best? What book is the best?

A better question for you to ask might be, based on your skill set, your level of play, your style of play, what you do well and what you need to improve, WHAT kinds of blades and rubbers would be most useful in HELPING YOU IMPROVE your skills.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

laistrogian
05-02-2017, 06:09 PM
Just pick a blade that you think is fast enough but not too fast for you and you like how it plays.

In the end what's the point of using a blade that is fast where you can loop rocket shots but don't like the feeling of?

TBS and MJ ZLC has similar speed but they just feel different in the first place. For me it was worth paying double the amount of money to get a blade that I properly like. I'm using it now and I don't think there's any blade I like using better

Zaid323918
05-02-2017, 08:08 PM
Okay then I'll rephrase: How are these blades characteristics different?

BeGo
05-03-2017, 02:50 AM
Okay then I'll rephrase: How are these blades characteristics different?
My assessment on Butterfly blades. I am not joking when I put Joo as blocker blade. [emoji28]

TypeBlade
Blocker Butterfly Andrzej Grubba Carbon
Blocker Butterfly Maze T-Tec ALL+
Blocker Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Andrzej Grubba
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Kong Linghui Euro
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Maze Passion
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Korbel Speed
Blocker Driver Butterfly Gergely 21
Blocker Driver Butterfly Gergely Carbon
Blocker Driver Butterfly Timo Boll W7
Blocker Driver Butterfly Nitchugo Super
Blocker Driver Butterfly Kreanga Aeros Off+
Blocker Driver Butterfly Chinese Tamca ULC
Blocker Driver Butterfly Aeolus S
Blocker Driver Butterfly Schlager Carbon
Blocker Driver Butterfly Mazunov
Blocker Driver Butterfly Ishlion
Blocker Driver Butterfly Sardius
Blocker Looper Butterfly Garaydia ZLC
Chopper Butterfly Defence Alpha
Chopper Butterfly Matsushita Pro
Chopper Butterfly Innershield ZLF
Chopper Butterfly Grubba Pro
Chopper Butterfly Jonyer Hinoki
Chopper Butterfly XStar
Chopper Butterfly Timo Boll Spark
Chopper Driver Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC
Chopper Driver Butterfly Innerforce ZLC
Chopper Driver Butterfly Photino Light
Chopper Driver Butterfly Schlager Precision
Chopper Driver Butterfly VSG-1000
Chopper Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ALL+
Chopper Looper Butterfly All Hinoki 5
Chopper Looper Butterfly Maze Performance
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kiso Hinoki V
Chopper Looper Butterfly Balsa Carbo X5
Chopper Looper Butterfly Innerforce AL
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kong Linghui
Chopper Looper Butterfly Jonyer Hinoki Special
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kong Linghui Special
Chopper Looper Butterfly Senkoh-1
Driver Butterfly Amultart ZL Carbon
Driver Butterfly Gergely Alpha
Driver Butterfly Innerforce T5000
Driver Butterfly Senkoh MAX
Driver Butterfly Timo Boll T5000 Tamca
Driver Butterfly Kreanga Carbon
Driver Butterfly Boll TriCarbon
Driver Butterfly Primorac Carbon
Driver Butterfly Firehand
Driver Butterfly Moonbeam
Driver Looper Butterfly Zhang Jike Super ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Zhang Jike ALC
Driver Looper Butterfly Jun Mizutani Super ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Iolite Neo
Driver Looper Butterfly Photino
Driver Looper Butterfly Jun Mizutani
Driver Looper Butterfly Schlager Carbon Light
Driver Looper Butterfly VSG-2000
Looper Butterfly Cypress-S
Looper Butterfly Liu Shiwen
Looper Butterfly Primorac EX
Looper Butterfly Innerforce ZLF
Looper Butterfly Keyshot Light
Looper Butterfly Keyshot
Non Blocker Butterfly Zhang Jike
Non Chopper Butterfly Iolite
Non Driver Butterfly Defence 2 (II)
Non Driver Butterfly Oh Sang Eun
Non Driver Butterfly Cofferlait Arylate Carbon
Non Driver Butterfly Primorac
Non Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ZLF
Non Looper Butterfly Timo Boll W5
Non Looper Butterfly Innerforce ALC
Non Looper Butterfly Kreanga Powerspin

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

Mumon
05-03-2017, 04:46 AM
I only own the Mizutani Super ZLC and the ZJK SuperZLC so my verdict would be this:
If you play more defensively take the ZJK, if you play offense away from the table, choose the Mizutani one.
Although i havent tried them, i know that the innerforce zlc and timo boll zlc are also very good blades similar to the zjk szlc.


peace!

laistrogian
05-03-2017, 05:24 AM
I'd say grab either Innerforce ZLC or the MJ ZLC. If you don't like them those 2 are probably the easiest to sell. However, I do think you should try a ZLC blade first to see if you like the carbon. I prefer ZLC over ALC but the reverse also applies to others.

But when in doubt, go with either TBS or Innerforce ZLC. I think these 2 blades are the most used blade professionally aside from korbel which is all-wood

NDH
05-03-2017, 07:43 AM
I only own the Mizutani Super ZLC and the ZJK SuperZLC so my verdict would be this:
If you play more defensively take the ZJK, if you play offense away from the table, choose the Mizutani one.
Although i havent tried them, i know that the innerforce zlc and timo boll zlc are also very good blades similar to the zjk szlc.


peace!

If you play more defensively, get neither! lol

Mumon
05-03-2017, 02:29 PM
If you play more defensively, get neither! lolThe ZJK szlc is ideal for punchblocking and pushing, not to mention the offensive capabilities if need be. There is no player that ONLY defends or ONLY attacks. This blade is for when you are leaning towards the defending side but still need that extra kick when the time comes.


peace!

Shuki
05-03-2017, 02:53 PM
My assessment on Butterfly blades. I am not joking when I put Joo as blocker blade. [emoji28]

TypeBlade
Blocker Butterfly Andrzej Grubba Carbon
Blocker Butterfly Maze T-Tec ALL+
Blocker Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Andrzej Grubba
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Kong Linghui Euro
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Maze Passion
Blocker Chopper Butterfly Korbel Speed
Blocker Driver Butterfly Gergely 21
Blocker Driver Butterfly Gergely Carbon
Blocker Driver Butterfly Timo Boll W7
Blocker Driver Butterfly Nitchugo Super
Blocker Driver Butterfly Kreanga Aeros Off+
Blocker Driver Butterfly Chinese Tamca ULC
Blocker Driver Butterfly Aeolus S
Blocker Driver Butterfly Schlager Carbon
Blocker Driver Butterfly Mazunov
Blocker Driver Butterfly Ishlion
Blocker Driver Butterfly Sardius
Blocker Looper Butterfly Garaydia ZLC
Chopper Butterfly Defence Alpha
Chopper Butterfly Matsushita Pro
Chopper Butterfly Innershield ZLF
Chopper Butterfly Grubba Pro
Chopper Butterfly Jonyer Hinoki
Chopper Butterfly XStar
Chopper Butterfly Timo Boll Spark
Chopper Driver Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC
Chopper Driver Butterfly Innerforce ZLC
Chopper Driver Butterfly Photino Light
Chopper Driver Butterfly Schlager Precision
Chopper Driver Butterfly VSG-1000
Chopper Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ALL+
Chopper Looper Butterfly All Hinoki 5
Chopper Looper Butterfly Maze Performance
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kiso Hinoki V
Chopper Looper Butterfly Balsa Carbo X5
Chopper Looper Butterfly Innerforce AL
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kong Linghui
Chopper Looper Butterfly Jonyer Hinoki Special
Chopper Looper Butterfly Kong Linghui Special
Chopper Looper Butterfly Senkoh-1
Driver Butterfly Amultart ZL Carbon
Driver Butterfly Gergely Alpha
Driver Butterfly Innerforce T5000
Driver Butterfly Senkoh MAX
Driver Butterfly Timo Boll T5000 Tamca
Driver Butterfly Kreanga Carbon
Driver Butterfly Boll TriCarbon
Driver Butterfly Primorac Carbon
Driver Butterfly Firehand
Driver Butterfly Moonbeam
Driver Looper Butterfly Zhang Jike Super ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Zhang Jike ALC
Driver Looper Butterfly Jun Mizutani Super ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ZLC
Driver Looper Butterfly Iolite Neo
Driver Looper Butterfly Photino
Driver Looper Butterfly Jun Mizutani
Driver Looper Butterfly Schlager Carbon Light
Driver Looper Butterfly VSG-2000
Looper Butterfly Cypress-S
Looper Butterfly Liu Shiwen
Looper Butterfly Primorac EX
Looper Butterfly Innerforce ZLF
Looper Butterfly Keyshot Light
Looper Butterfly Keyshot
Non Blocker Butterfly Zhang Jike
Non Chopper Butterfly Iolite
Non Driver Butterfly Defence 2 (II)
Non Driver Butterfly Oh Sang Eun
Non Driver Butterfly Cofferlait Arylate Carbon
Non Driver Butterfly Primorac
Non Looper Butterfly Timo Boll ZLF
Non Looper Butterfly Timo Boll W5
Non Looper Butterfly Innerforce ALC
Non Looper Butterfly Kreanga Powerspin

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

What's "non looper?"

BeGo
05-03-2017, 04:24 PM
What's "non looper?"

Basically means good for all basic strokes except brush looping.

True allrounder is rare. Even Waldner and Samsonov almost never chop. I classify them as "non chopper".

I think only Ouaiche, the prominent true allrounder that I have seen on Youtube so far.

Now,

Imagine a player that play a rather flat game, that often block and chop block, and when nice ball came, he goes for the kill rather than to loop it.

This what I have in mind when picturing non looper style. Sadly, I cant find prominent example for this play style, sorry. [emoji28]



Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

UpSideDownCarl
05-03-2017, 07:18 PM
@ Zaid, I think, with all the classic EJ questions you have been asking, you should start thinking about what qualities the different kinds of wood have.

Like, what playing characteristics a blade with a Koto top ply has. Or a blade with a Limba top ply. Or Hinoki. What does Limba top and a Limba second ply next to each other feel like. How does that feel different from when Limba is on top of Spruce or Ayous.

About 7 years ago I went to a club called NYTTF in NYC's Chinatown. When I started going there I realized that one of the guys who worked there was a close, old friend. He was a lot better than me. And he was an outrageous EJ. While he was training me and helping me improve, he also would get people to let him try their rackets.

This club had hundreds of members. It is really sad it closed. But when he would borrow people's rackets to try, he would also make me try them. And he would ask me what I thought. What I felt. And tell me what he felt.

I tried so many different setups, thinking about it now makes my head spin. But by trying racket after racket and setup after setup, you start knowing what you like more and what works better for you.

There is one flaw in the process. Usually intermediate level players and players lower level than intermediate level tend to like rackets that are faster than they should use; perhaps they even feel they "need" something faster than what they should actually use.

An interesting piece of info: most pros use blades that are of a moderate speed. TB ALC, Viscaria, those are not very fast. They are moderate. And the pros who use them really have the skill to use them.

The pros who use blades that are faster than a Viscaria usually have a unique style which makes the faster blade choice make sense.

But in the end, if you are playing for fun, maybe it doesn't matter too much if you use a setup that hinders your development but makes you happy to have an expensive brand name and a well known status symbol setup.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

UpSideDownCarl
05-03-2017, 07:34 PM
More info. To be able to try and compare blades and really get the sense of how what they are good for and how the different blades are different, it really helps to have a baseline rubber for testing and to use it when you test each different blade.

And if you were testing different rubbers, to really be able to feel what different rubbers do well and don't do well, trying all the different rubbers on the same blade helps.

Another thing, even though ESN makes all the Bluefire and Evolution rubbers, there really isn't a Bluefire that is equivalent to MX-P and vice versa. ESN uses specs from each different company to make the different rubbers. And no ESN rubber really parallels T05. There are rubbers, like MX-P that perform similarly. But they are different rubbers. And even though you get comparable speed and spin when comparing MX-P and T05, they feel NOTHING ALIKE.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Zaid323918
05-03-2017, 07:46 PM
@ Zaid, I think, with all the classic EJ questions you have been asking, you should start thinking about what qualities the different kinds of wood have.

Like, what playing characteristics a blade with a Koto top ply has. Or a blade with a Limba top ply. Or Hinoki. What does Limba top and a Limba second ply next to each other feel like. How does that feel different from when Limba is on top of Spruce or Ayous.

About 7 years ago I went to a club called NYTTF in NYC's Chinatown. When I started going there I realized that one of the guys who worked there was a close, old friend. He was a lot better than me. And he was an outrageous EJ. While he was training me and helping me improve, he also would get people to let him try their rackets.

This club had hundreds of members. It is really sad it closed. But when he would borrow people's rackets to try, he would also make me try them. And he would ask me what I thought. What I felt. And tell me what he felt.

I tried so many different setups, thinking about it now makes my head spin. But by trying racket after racket and setup after setup, you start knowing what you like more and what works better for you.

There is one flaw in the process. Usually intermediate level players and players lower level than intermediate level tend to like rackets that are faster than they should use; perhaps they even feel they "need" something faster than what they should actually use.

An interesting piece of info: most pros use blades that are of a moderate speed. TB ALC, Viscaria, those are not very fast. They are moderate. And the pros who use them really have the skill to use them.

The pros who use blades that are faster than a Viscaria usually have a unique style which makes the faster blade choice make sense.

But in the end, if you are playing for fun, maybe it doesn't matter too much if you use a setup that hinders your development but makes you happy to have an expensive brand name and a well known status symbol setup.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Thanks for all the info. I myself don't want to buy a ZLC blade I just wanted to know their characteristics. ZLC type blades are ones that I have never tried so I don't really know how they play. (I've tried ALC, Spruce top layer, Limba top layer, Limba Limba, Carbon, Koto, etc) Also, personally I myself don't like really fast combos which is why I am using an Infinity.

Zaid323918
05-03-2017, 07:49 PM
More info. To be able to try and compare blades and really get the sense of how what they are good for and how the different blades are different, it really helps to have a baseline rubber for testing and to use it when you test each different blade.

And if you were testing different rubbers, to really be able to feel what different rubbers do well and don't do well, trying all the different rubbers on the same blade helps.

Another thing, even though ESN makes all the Bluefire and Evolution rubbers, there really isn't a Bluefire that is equivalent to MX-P and vice versa. ESN uses specs from each different company to make the different rubbers. And no ESN rubber really parallels T05. There are rubbers, like MX-P that perform similarly. But they are different rubbers. And even though you get comparable speed and spin when comparing MX-P and T05, they feel NOTHING ALIKE.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Oh but is there a Bluefire rubber that is 50 degrees hard, and has a medium to low throw? Or one that 47 degrees hard, high throw and with a big catapult?

Shuki
05-03-2017, 10:40 PM
Basically means good for all basic strokes except brush looping.

True allrounder is rare. Even Waldner and Samsonov almost never chop. I classify them as "non chopper".

I think only Ouaiche, the prominent true allrounder that I have seen on Youtube so far.

Now,

Imagine a player that play a rather flat game, that often block and chop block, and when nice ball came, he goes for the kill rather than to loop it.

This what I have in mind when picturing non looper style. Sadly, I cant find prominent example for this play style, sorry. [emoji28]



Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk


you're going to get some arguments on your analysis :p


innerforce layer alc - chopper/driver
innerforce alc - non looper


difference between these is .1mm thickness.
I also only know loopers that play the "non looper" blade. I better let him know he's using it wrong since he's 2000. It's probably holding him back!

BeGo
05-04-2017, 12:48 AM
you're going to get some arguments on your analysis [emoji14]


innerforce layer alc - chopper/driver
innerforce alc - non looper


difference between these is .1mm thickness.
I also only know loopers that play the "non looper" blade. I better let him know he's using it wrong since he's 2000. It's probably holding him back!

Small note first,

innerforce layer alc - chop and drive style
innerforce alc - non looping style

Then,

Agree that some result are questionable, even for myself. I also take Me factor into account, that is why I put imho tag in my answers. [emoji28]

But, either way,

Post His responses here, Shuki,when available. Looking forward for it. [emoji6]

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

Shuki
05-04-2017, 04:05 AM
Small note first,

innerforce layer alc - chop and drive style
innerforce alc - non looping style

Then,

Agree that some result are questionable, even for myself. I also take Me factor into account, that is why I put imho tag in my answers. [emoji28]

But, either way,

Post His responses here, Shuki,when available. Looking forward for it. [emoji6]

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

I agree some results are questionable. Me factor would have my list set up very differently. I've only tried 36/71 of those blades. So me being less experienced is probably a big part of me disagreeing.

Jaffar Lone
05-04-2017, 05:01 AM
You have made an interesting point Carl..===> most pros use blades that are of a moderate speed.



I guess it depends on the player.. currently i am coached by a professional player who uses the Schlager carbon, one of the fastest blades that i have known. Prior to that i was coached by a professional who uses the hurricane WL, a 5 ply all wood blade.


On your other point, ==> TB ALC, Viscaria, those are not very fast.


I don't know if its just me, but when i tried practicing with these two blades they felt very stiff and fast.. most of my strokes were missing their 'landing area' so to speak.. Perhaps a better argument could be that the Boll ALC and the Viscaria are not as fast as, say the Photino or the Amultart.

UpSideDownCarl
05-04-2017, 05:10 AM
You have made an interesting point Carl..===> most pros use blades that are of a moderate speed.



I guess it depends on the player.. currently i am coached by a professional player who uses the Schlager carbon, one of the fastest blades that i have known. Prior to that i was coached by a professional who uses the hurricane WL, a 5 ply all wood blade.


On your other point, ==> TB ALC, Viscaria, those are not very fast.


I don't know if its just me, but when i tried practicing with these two blades they felt very stiff and fast.. most of my strokes were missing their 'landing area' so to speak.. Perhaps a better argument could be that the Boll ALC and the Viscaria are not as fast as, say the Photino or the Amultart.




The Viscaria and TB ALC may be faster than either of us should use. But they really are not super fast. They are on the moderate side.

I like my 5 ply all wood blade. I like Off-. I don't need faster. But the Viscaria is a pretty manageable speed. And someone who has the intelligence to use a 5 ply all wood blade may be able to feel why a Viscaria is not really so recommendable for a developing player.

SilentRain
05-04-2017, 05:35 AM
I agree with Carl, the TB ALC, Viscaria and even the HL 5 has moderate speed compared to other Carbon blades. But they are fast enough with sufficient kill potential. What makes these blades popular is the control factor. Fast enough to kill, slow enough to control and thus prone to less unforced errors.

Thats why im currently using the HL 5 eventhou i much prefer my JM ZLC blade overall. With my current skill level Im still making unforced errors with the ZLC which is why i went down to HL5 where i could control it. Once I improve more I intend to move back to JM ZLC. At my current progress I will probably stick to HL5 for another year before making the transition.

Jaffar Lone
05-04-2017, 05:53 AM
Aside from this, what i felt was one drawback or con of using an All-wood blade is that it takes its toll on your elbows. Especially if you tend to loop and smash during the rallies. Using a carbon blade might reduce this risk perhaps.

Zaid323918
05-04-2017, 01:09 PM
Aside from this, what i felt was one drawback or con of using an All-wood blade is that it takes its toll on your elbows. Especially if you tend to loop and smash during the rallies. Using a carbon blade might reduce this risk perhaps.
Tell me about it. I suffered from tennis elbow for over a month twice. I thought it was my technique but it turns out that Stiga Premade Rackets should not be used with a poly-ball. Ever since then I've used combos that were in the OFF- to OFF+ range. My current combo is probably around OFF-. (The Viscaria I that I have has MX-P on both sides and it's only a tad faster but I don't want to use it cuz it's harder to control especially close to the table for my skill level)

Zaid323918
05-04-2017, 01:11 PM
The Viscaria and TB ALC may be faster than either of us should use. But they really are not super fast. They are on the moderate side.

I like my 5 ply all wood blade. I like Off-. I don't need faster. But the Viscaria is a pretty manageable speed. And someone who has the intelligence to use a 5 ply all wood blade may be able to feel why a Viscaria is not really so recommendable for a developing player.

How would you compare the speed of your OSP to the Stiga Infinity? (just wondering)

UpSideDownCarl
05-04-2017, 02:57 PM
How would you compare the speed of your OSP to the Stiga Infinity? (just wondering)

Not too different. If the Infinity and the V+ are the same weight the Infinity will be a certain amount faster.

But I don't think that is the essential issue to focus on. The V+ is considerably softer and has a lot more grab and dwell time so it helps you generate more spin.

Infinity has a couple of processes done to it. "VPS" is a heat treatment done to the middle ply that makes the blade feel crisper because it dries out the wood but it also makes the rebound faster so it reduces dwell time. "Diamond Touch" is a substance applied to the surface of the top ply that makes it HARDER. This also reduces dwell time and makes it harder to spin the ball.

A good player will be able to spin the ball regardless of these things. Note top players who use a blade with a Koto top ply are using a blade with a harder surface and their technique is good enough to spin the heck out of the ball anyway. But for someone learning, these features make it harder to learn to hold the ball on the blade face and get more spin.

What they do is make the blade feel crisper and more alive. But they sacrifice dwell time. Stiga has been playing around with different methods for doing this same thing for years and years. CR is another hardening method. NCT is another coating that makes the surface harder.

These things are "good" for Stiga's marketing strategy because they get to say the treatments make the blade faster, and with something like VPS they could also say it makes the blade lighter. But it is worth looking at what you give up. I personally like Stiga's most basic blades better than the "new technology" ones that do nothing but harden the blade.

So:

1) Stiga Allround Evolution
2) Stiga Offensive Classic
3) Stiga Tube Allround
4) Stiga Energy Wood
5) Stiga Clipper Classic

Are really blades worth looking at for the simplicity of their design.

However, Stiga and most companies make the handles of their blades HOLLOW (yes, even the ones that don't look hollow) so that they can say the blades weigh less. That is also marketing.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Zaid323918
05-04-2017, 03:45 PM
Not too different. If the Infinity and the V+ are the same weight the Infinity will be a certain amount faster.

But I don't think that is the essential issue to focus on. The V+ is considerably softer and has a lot more grab and dwell time so it helps you generate more spin.

Infinity has a couple of processes done to it. "VPS" is a heat treatment done to the middle ply that makes the blade feel crisper because it dries out the wood but it also makes the rebound faster so it reduces dwell time. "Diamond Touch" is a substance applied to the surface of the top ply that makes it HARDER. This also reduces dwell time and makes it harder to spin the ball.

A good player will be able to spin the ball regardless of these things. Note top players who use a blade with a Koto top ply are using a blade with a harder surface and their technique is good enough to spin the heck out of the ball anyway. But for someone learning, these features make it harder to learn to hold the ball on the blade face and get more spin.

What they do is make the blade feel crisper and more alive. But they sacrifice dwell time. Stiga has been playing around with different methods for doing this same thing for years and years. CR is another hardening method. NCT is another coating that makes the surface harder.

These things are "good" for Stiga's marketing strategy because they get to say the treatments make the blade faster, and with something like VPS they could also say it makes the blade lighter. But it is worth looking at what you give up. I personally like Stiga's most basic blades better than the "new technology" ones that do nothing but harden the blade.

So:

1) Stiga Allround Evolution
2) Stiga Offensive Classic
3) Stiga Tube Allround
4) Stiga Energy Wood
5) Stiga Clipper Classic

Are really blades worth looking at for the simplicity of their design.

However, Stiga and most companies make the handles of their blades HOLLOW (yes, even the ones that don't look hollow) so that they can say the blades weigh less. That is also marketing.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
That's nice to know but I am happy with the VPS anyway. It gets the job done and for my level it's fine.

UpSideDownCarl
05-04-2017, 05:09 PM
That's nice to know but I am happy with the VPS anyway. It gets the job done and for my level it's fine.

Yep. It is a pretty decent blade. Nothing wrong with it.

I was just explaining that the difference between the V+ and the Infinity that is most noteworthy is that the V+ is softer so it helps you spin the ball much more.

People who are used to harder blades often find it too soft.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Xylit
05-04-2017, 05:12 PM
Buy the most expensive blade and you automatically have the best. If you don't believe me, read the blade manufatcuter's descriptions, that will confirm it :)

Jaffar Lone
05-04-2017, 05:43 PM
Not certain if that works for everyone..one of my former coaches told me a while ago, that the most expensive equipment is mainly for increasing business and marketing... for the purists the moderate cost equipment works fine.
Then again the term 'best' is not the same for all... as carl already pointed out earlier in this thread.

UpSideDownCarl
05-04-2017, 06:44 PM
Buy the most expensive blade and you automatically have the best. If you don't believe me, read the blade manufatcuter's descriptions, that will confirm it :)

Hahahaha. Good one.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

UpSideDownCarl
05-04-2017, 06:54 PM
A few more notes and for you Zaid:

1) If your intention is to find out about equipment, there is nothing wrong with asking all these questions that seem to be occupying your mental space. However, asking people if you can try their equipment and seeing what you feel is a better method for understanding equipment.

2) Equipment can be fun. Nothing wrong with EJing or asking questions. But how you improve is TRAINING, PRACTICE and PLAYING THE GAME.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Zaid323918
05-04-2017, 07:55 PM
A few more notes and for you Zaid:

1) If your intention is to find out about equipment, there is nothing wrong with asking all these questions that seem to be occupying your mental space. However, asking people if you can try their equipment and seeing what you feel is a better method for understanding equipment.



2) Equipment can be fun. Nothing wrong with EJing or asking questions. But how you improve is TRAINING, PRACTICE and PLAYING THE GAME.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

I've tried the equipment of everyone I played with. I'm just curious about this stuff. I know equipment doesn't make you improve. If anything it'll make you worse. Most of the time I was asking these type of questions I never had the equipment or was planning on getting it.

laistrogian
05-04-2017, 11:18 PM
I've tried the equipment of everyone I played with. I'm just curious about this stuff. I know equipment doesn't make you improve. If anything it'll make you worse. Most of the time I was asking these type of questions I never had the equipment or was planning on getting it.

In the end, just use something that you like to use unless it completely breaks your game. My coach knows I like to switch equipments, he knows I tend to hit balls too hard for me to return at times partly because of my equipment but he just told me it's fine to rely on equipments.

I tried using 5 ply all wood until 2 months later I just can't get used to the small sweetspot. I'm not gonna force myself use it for a year to get used to small sweetspot while hating myself doing it. Bear in mind I started with Schlager carbon, a brick blade with the whole face of the blade as sweetspot because of the stiff carbon

Zaid323918
05-05-2017, 12:11 AM
In the end, just use something that you like to use unless it completely breaks your game. My coach knows I like to switch equipments, he knows I tend to hit balls too hard for me to return at times partly because of my equipment but he just told me it's fine to rely on equipments.

I tried using 5 ply all wood until 2 months later I just can't get used to the small sweetspot. I'm not gonna force myself use it for a year to get used to small sweetspot while hating myself doing it. Bear in mind I started with Schlager carbon, a brick blade with the whole face of the blade as sweetspot because of the stiff carbon

Oh I started off with a 7 ply wood core OFF blade with speed glued Juic Driva Smash Ultima. That combo was a little faster than my current one but the control was actually better cause it was limba but sadly the blade broke :(

Jaffar Lone
05-05-2017, 03:08 AM
If you do not properly warmup for each table tennis session it could end up in a stiff elbow, also stretching after the session is important.

I had the golfer's elbow syndrome back in may of last year, did rehab and switched to DHS PG9 for more speed. I ended up switching back to my original blade the DHS hurricane WL as the PG9 was way too fast for me..

Lesson learned: If you are playing well with a 5-ply blade, do not switch to a 7-ply blade. And always pay attention to your elbows and knees.


Tell me about it. I suffered from tennis elbow for over a month twice. I thought it was my technique but it turns out that Stiga Premade Rackets should not be used with a poly-ball. Ever since then I've used combos that were in the OFF- to OFF+ range. My current combo is probably around OFF-. (The Viscaria I that I have has MX-P on both sides and it's only a tad faster but I don't want to use it cuz it's harder to control especially close to the table for my skill level)