(VIDEO) Liam Pitchford vs Vladimir Samsonov

Dan

says editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀

Dan

says editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀
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Have you wondered how the English boy Liam Pitchford beat Vladimir Samsonov?

Thanks to Stiga Table Tennis who are out in the European Championships they took the recording of the last set :)

Enjoy

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Impossible is nothing!
 
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looked like Samsonov's feet were imbedded in 3 tons of cement but, excellent win for Liam :-D

Samsonov has never had quick feet. He's only been as good as he was because of his ability to read spin and tactically put the ball in a place where he knows the best possible return will be back to him.

He is only now in the top 10 ranking because he plays less tournaments and plays the lower caliber players like the African Tourneys and I think he even went to South America to qualify for the ITTF Pro Tour a few times. He is getting old and uses and old style of play and that's why he's losing to people that are much lower than he is.
 
says Spin and more spin.
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Samsonov has never had quick feet. He's only been as good as he was because of his ability to read spin and tactically put the ball in a place where he knows the best possible return will be back to him.

He is only now in the top 10 ranking because he plays less tournaments and plays the lower caliber players like the African Tourneys and I think he even went to South America to qualify for the ITTF Pro Tour a few times. He is getting old and uses and old style of play and that's why he's losing to people that are much lower than he is.

As players get older they lose some of their abilities. But things happen. Didn't Ma Lin recently lose to a low ranked player that everyone made a big deal about? It does not just happen to older players: Didn't Seiya Kishikawa give Ma Long 4-0 when Ma Long was #2 in the world and poised to become #1 for the first time in his career? I think Kishikawa was ranked 79th in the world when he did that.

I don't think Samsonov is as good as he used to be. But I bet he could give Jun Mizutani a run for his money even though I doubt he could do the same to anyone else in the top 10. But in 2009 he did win the World Cup. And in that tournament he did beat Ma Long and Chen Chi when Chen Chi was playing solid ball.
 
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The Ma Lin mishap doesn't really apply here. Liam is actually at Samsonov's skill level. He really shouldn't be in the top 10 because his skill has decreased dramatically. He only stays in the top 10 because of his ability to play at lower ranking tournaments and beat players that are in 10-50 WR. He like Oh Sang Eun are just playing the older style and are being beaten by the younger players with the more modern style of play.

Kishikawa was definitely under ranked for that match and Ma hadn't fully developed his technique. He at the time was said to be ignoring his coaches because he was winning a lot as Wang Liqin was doing in 2005-2008.

Back to Ma Lin, that was a serious case of mentality for him. He was supposedly conserving his energy for his larger matches and wasn't focusing on that match as he should have been. He was overconfident and playing really passively for the first 2 games and it wasn't until he was down 0-2 that he put more effort into that match, but by then he'd already psyched himself out.

In the match with Liam, Samsonov is clearly a slower player and can't handle the speed that Liam is playing with. Their strokes are so clearly different, Liam with a much faster loop and Samsonov with his classic forehand that is just no longer effective in this sport. He's a great player and I don't want to put him down, but he's from an older era and just can't keep up unless he changes how he trains.

My point here was basically to stop "ranking" players based on their World Ranking. The World Ranking is very skewed to players who play more tournaments. If you play less tournaments and maintain a good Win to Loss ratio your rating will always go up. If you are in the Top 10 and winning a lot your rating will also go up, but it is not until you play several tournaments and lose to many low rated players that you start to drastically drop.

I base my "World Ranking" on skill level. I basically take the statistics of who can beat who and who has the better technique and tactical advantage and rate them as such. Ma Long, Zhang Jike, and Wang Hao would definitely be at the top of the list, but to rank who's #1 I'd give it to who's winning most recently and rightfully so Ma Long is at the top.

Ma Lin in my opinion is better in skill than Timo and should also be ranked higher than him. The rest of the top 20 need to be reset because many of them rarely play and because they do the bare minimum to stay qualified and they win lower ranked tournaments they stay at their current World Ranking. There are probably 2-3 players in the top 10 who shouldn't be based in skill and there are definitely at least 5-6 players in the top 20 who should be fighting for those spots in the top 10. Many of the Chinese players are clearly skilled higher than their ranking, but haven't played for a very long time. And there are a lot of older players who play every once in a while and win some unknown events to gain their points in the rankings.

Honestly I wish there was an International League that affected these rankings because they would fluctuate properly and give a better statistical analysis of who's better than who.
 
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I don't think it is fair to call Samsonov and Oh 'old style'. They have a rather passive style and they are nowhere as good as they once were. For example Oh has beaten Wang Hao, Ma Lin and the older Chinese players when they were also playing the same power-game as they are doing now. Their styles are unique and hard to play because it needs so much anticipation and the slightest slip-up will make the opponent able to kill it off. That's why they are being overpowered by the young guns now. But again, I think it is not fair to serve off their style when the more obvious reason for their results is their age.
 
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No you're wrong about that bro. Oh and Vladi were beating the Chinese back in the 38 mm and speed glue eras. They have not won a large tournament in a couple of years. Vladi won in 2009 against Chen, but that was right after the SG Ban so I'd chalk that up to equipment.

Vladi and Oh are incredibly old styled. All you have to do is look if they step around. Sure they're getting old, but they've rarely ever stepped around the backhand for a dtl shot with their backhands it's always been about placement and passive reactive playing.

Oh is still a great player, but he certainly is not at the level of the top 10 anymore. Vladi is the same. They have rarely gotten a chance to play the 11-20 ranked players where at least 5-6 of them are more than capable of beating them when comparing skill and technique.

The Euro Backhand that both players use is out dated as well. Because they don't use their forehands they resort to backhand blocks and the rare backhand smashes. Their loops aren't nearly as effective as in the Speed Glue era and certainly not as in the 38 mm era.

This is one of the most longevity known sports in the world. With proper fitness both of them could easily keep up with their younger peers, but they're not willing to put the same amount of work as players like Ma Lin and Wang Liqin are. I'm fairly sure that Wang is their senior and he's still running circles around them.

Again this isn't to insult them as players as they're both great players, but as for top 10 or 12 in Oh's case I think they're over ranked when compared to the other skill levels of players below them.
 
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Vladimir Samsonov (born April 17, 1976)

Oh Sang-Eun (Born April 13, 1977)

Wang Liqin (born June 18, 1978)

According to Wikipedia Wang Liqin's birthday is later than either.

Also, the 2009 World Cup was a year and 8 maybe 9 months after the speed glue ban, to blame him winning that on the speed glue ban when he beat both Ma Long and Chen Chi back to back is sort of stretching things. I remember watching those games and Samsonov out played and out thought Ma Long and Ma Long was not playing badly.
 
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Well to say they thank their succes to the speed glue is a little simple. Every player grew up with speed glue, so it is not weird that it fitted their game. And after the speed glue they were a couple of years after their prime, so you can't judge them on that. What you say about WLQ is true, but he is a unique athlete and many players with explosive styles don't manage to stay in shape till that age. I think that playing style is still possible, but at the moment nobody has the skill level (regardless playing style) to seriously conquer the Chinese except Boll maybe. So to say their playing style doesn't work doesn't sound right to me, since no other playing style seems to work either. And against the non-Chinese they are still getting results (Oh beating Boll in the CL being the most recent example)
 
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