PDA

View Full Version : Low backhand power



Qwerty
07-18-2017, 09:50 PM
I was wondering if anyone have a few tips for my backhand topspin. I have played for many years so i am a decent intermediate player but i have always lacked in the power of my backhand loop. I can block very well and my technique is pretty good aswell but somehow i still struggle to get power in my shots. Any tips would be appreciated :)

Archosaurus
07-18-2017, 10:27 PM
If you could post some video of yourself doing backhands, we could give you meaningful advice.

ttmonster
07-19-2017, 12:03 AM
I think the obvious requisite is to see your technique . generic tips would be take the ball as early as possible to use incoming power and also to work on the timing ... the simple exercise of opening from deep pushes should also help ... but all this is pure speculation without a video .. for all we know your level might be already a lot higher and it might need professional coaches' expert eyes to see whats going wrong

yogi_bear
07-19-2017, 01:06 AM
Probably you need to work out on your timing or contact point with ball, how deep your sponge compression is and the way you use your arms and wrist when doing backhand loops but we need an idea how you do it first.

kalc
07-19-2017, 12:50 PM
Just to clarify, are you talking about an opening BH topspin to an underspin ball or topspinning subsequent low balls?

Ilia Minkin
07-19-2017, 03:04 PM
Do you utilize the wrist?

Baal
07-19-2017, 04:36 PM
Obviously without seeing the OP it is impossible to say what is going on, and all I can do is mention two things that have helped me.

My power, spin, and accuracy increased from two things: One is working a lot on my footwork with 2-2 drills to really make sure I am in the right place to hit the ball, even when I have to move to get it. The second is that I concentrate on not hitting the ball in the middle of my blade, but rather a little bit further out towards the end of it. Say, around 60-65% of the way to the end of the blade. This is especially important for generating power from the BH. This later aspect helps me on ever kind of BH topspin I hit, including opening loops, counter loops, blocks, flicks, you name it.

NextLevel
07-19-2017, 04:51 PM
Obviously without seeing the OP it is impossible to say what is going on, and all I can do is mention two things that have helped me.

My power, spin, and accuracy increased from two things: One is working a lot on my footwork with 2-2 drills to really make sure I am in the right place to hit the ball, even when I have to move to get it. The second is that I concentrate on not hitting the ball in the middle of my blade, but rather a little bit further out towards the end of it. Say, around 60-65% of the way to the end of the blade. This is especially important for generating power from the BH. This later aspect helps me on ever kind of BH topspin I hit, including opening loops, counter loops, blocks, flicks, you name it.

You are hitting the proper sweetspot of the blade. There are people who will tell you that carbon blades have larger sweetspots than regular blades. The truth is that the reason why my backhand is so good is that I have always hit the sweetspot with it even when I was 1400. You see the marks bunched up towards the top. My forehand was more towards the true center until recently. I sometimes forget, but there has definitely been an improvement even if inconsistent. But the bottom line is do not believe anyone who tells you that carbon blades have larger sweetspot.

BTW: When I write that, I am not talking about the truth of the size of the sweetspot, but the impact of consistently hitting it on practical play.

Archosaurus
07-19-2017, 05:01 PM
That's interesting. To me it feels like I'm hitting near the middle, maybe even closer to the handle sometimes. Never payed attention to this. Is it so important?

UpSideDownCarl
07-19-2017, 05:08 PM
It is true that we could only figure out what you are doing well and not as well if we see what you are doing.

However, regardless of what you are doing or not doing, there is a multiball drill or two for you.

Baal is right about those 2-2 drills and precise foot placement before the shot.

He and NextLevel are also correct about wanting to hit the ball near the tip of the blade, particularly for BH.

Paul David told me many times to contact near the tip. For FH he showed me a slightly different contact point on the rubber for looping. But it is not the center either.

In addition to 2-2 drills, this multiball drill can be very useful in helping you increase BH power:

Bucket after bucket after bucket of backspin to the BH.

Oh, and of course the 2-2 drill can be done as multiball or as one person blocking. The blocker/feeder needs adequate control. But it is not hard to the blocking.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

UpSideDownCarl
07-19-2017, 05:13 PM
Just to clarify, are you talking about an opening BH topspin to an underspin ball or topspinning subsequent low balls?

I could be wrong but I think he just means on any BH shot.

Low has nothing to do with the height of the ball in this context.

The title of the thread is "Low BH Power". It may not be ideal English. I am guessing English is not Qwerty's main language. But the title gets across what he means.

Here are some alternative titles for the thread:

1) I Want to Increase the Power of My BH.

2) How Can I Generate More Power with My BH

3) BH Not Powerful Enough, What Can I Do to Change That


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

kalc
07-19-2017, 05:30 PM
Oh, i see :) Thanks for the clarification Carl :)

kalc
07-19-2017, 05:42 PM
I totally agree that the location where it hits the racquet is very important. Another thing that helps me to hit BH topspins in succession ( particularly when the opponent is blocking the ball hard, so its almost like a punch ) is to take a step back.

MindTrip
07-19-2017, 06:04 PM
I increased my BH power in one of two ways depending on ball placement. Firstly, if the ball is wide to my BH side, I twist my torso (right shoulder facing opponent's side) and whip my torso and arm into the ball. I get really good power and spin this way. Secondly, when the ball is coming into my body, I drop the head of the racquet and cock my wrist (paddle head pointing at my left thigh) and explode into the ball at the top of its bounce. This all has to be done in one smooth motion to be effective. Since I consciencly began developing these strokes, my opponents have mentioned on a few occasions that my BH is more powerful than my FH. The BH is a compact, explosive stroke that can be recovered quickly, whereas my FH takes a little more time to recover to get the same ball speed.

Baal
07-19-2017, 06:53 PM
You are hitting the proper sweetspot of the blade. There are people who will tell you that carbon blades have larger sweetspots than regular blades. The truth is that the reason why my backhand is so good is that I have always hit the sweetspot with it even when I was 1400. You see the marks bunched up towards the top. My forehand was more towards the true center until recently. I sometimes forget, but there has definitely been an improvement even if inconsistent. But the bottom line is do not believe anyone who tells you that carbon blades have larger sweetspot.

BTW: When I write that, I am not talking about the truth of the size of the sweetspot, but the impact of consistently hitting it on practical play.

I should note that I made that realization a long time ago, in the 38 mm ball era. Even so, I periodically need to remind myself of it. I have seen a lot of people who are unaware of it.

Baal
07-19-2017, 06:55 PM
It is true that we could only figure out what you are doing well and not as well if we see what you are doing.

However, regardless of what you are doing or not doing, there is a multiball drill or two for you.

Baal is right about those 2-2 drills and precise foot placement before the shot.

He and NextLevel are also correct about wanting to hit the ball near the tip of the blade, particularly for BH.

Paul David told me many times to contact near the tip. For FH he showed me a slightly different contact point on the rubber for looping. But it is not the center either.

In addition to 2-2 drills, this multiball drill can be very useful in helping you increase BH power:

Bucket after bucket after bucket of backspin to the BH.

Oh, and of course the 2-2 drill can be done as multiball or as one person blocking. The blocker/feeder needs adequate control. But it is not hard to the blocking.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

I find the 2-2 drill is most effective with someone able to block that way, and it should be done close in at first, and then at a more middle distance.

Baal
07-19-2017, 06:58 PM
That's interesting. To me it feels like I'm hitting near the middle, maybe even closer to the handle sometimes. Never payed attention to this. Is it so important?

It is incredibly important and you are not alone in being unaware of it. The simplest way to think about it is that the center of of your blade is not moving as fast. But it is also not the most powerful part of your blade either. And of course, if you are thinking about where to hit the ball on your blade, you tend to time better. It needs to become automatic for zen reasons, but it will have a major impact on your shot. By the way, it also tends to help you get the wrist position some other people have mentioned here. It is a really good mental shortcut.

But it won't help you if you are not in position to hit the shot.

ttmonster
07-19-2017, 07:16 PM
when you say the 2-2 drill , do you mean 2 backhand and 2 forehands , or 2 backhands to the middle and 2 backhands to the corner , or 2 backhands from close and 2 backhands from mid distance ?

Archosaurus
07-19-2017, 07:32 PM
It is incredibly important and you are not alone in being unaware of it. The simplest way to think about it is that the center of of your blade is not moving as fast. But it is also not the most powerful part of your blade either. And of course, if you are thinking about where to hit the ball on your blade, you tend to time better. It needs to become automatic for zen reasons, but it will have a major impact on your shot. By the way, it also tends to help you get the wrist position some other people have mentioned here. It is a really good mental shortcut.

But it won't help you if you are not in position to hit the shot.
I knew the whole physics behind it, but I didn't know that it makes THAT much of a difference.

What exactly is happening differently when the ball hits the sweetspot compared to when it doesn't? Is the blade just harder there?

Baal
07-19-2017, 09:15 PM
I knew the whole physics behind it, but I didn't know that it makes THAT much of a difference.

What exactly is happening differently when the ball hits the sweetspot compared to when it doesn't? Is the blade just harder there?

I don't know exactly but big difference. I could speculate but IANAPOE (I am not a physicist or engineer).

Baal
07-19-2017, 09:17 PM
when you say the 2-2 drill , do you mean 2 backhand and 2 forehands , or 2 backhands to the middle and 2 backhands to the corner , or 2 backhands from close and 2 backhands from mid distance ?

In this case I mean two BHs, and then two FHs, so you have to move from side to side. This drill can be easy or hard (depending on who is giving you the balls and where they are putting them). I don't know if everyone calls it that. I always heard it referred to that way.

Archosaurus
07-19-2017, 09:19 PM
@Baal

I've never played very close attention to this, but I'll pay more attention next time I train.

ttmonster
07-19-2017, 09:21 PM
Okay, thats why it was my first option , since we are talking exclusively about BH , I thought it will be worthwhile to clarify, thanks !

In this case I mean two BHs, and then two FHs, so you have to move from side to side. This drill can be easy or hard (depending on who is giving you the balls and where they are putting them). I don't know if everyone calls it that. I always heard it referred to that way.

UpSideDownCarl
07-19-2017, 11:13 PM
In this case I mean two BHs, and then two FHs, so you have to move from side to side. This drill can be easy or hard (depending on who is giving you the balls and where they are putting them). I don't know if everyone calls it that. I always heard it referred to that way.

That is what Paul David calls it when he feeds me that. Same drill.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Baal
07-20-2017, 01:50 AM
Marcos Freitas still trains a lot with 2-2 and variations on it. See Dan's podcast with him, around 14:00 - 17:00 (linked below). That interview had a big impact on me, I think it was one of Dan's best. Ever since I heard that, I have made that the mainstay of my practice. I had been getting pretty undisciplined.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/podcast/12187-tabletennisdaily-podcast-7-marcos-freitas/

One thing he emphasized is that pretty simple drills even at his level (top 10 in the world at the time of the interview) are a way to improve and maintain technique. Remember, you have to incorporate movement to the ball into your training. He mentions you can do all sorts of things to make the 2-2 drill different. Close in, far away, a hybrid with the Falkenberg drill. But you need a partner with the skill and willingness to do it. Fortunately, I have a few.

(Once you get good at it, then you can go to various 2-1 drills).

UpSideDownCarl
07-20-2017, 01:56 AM
Marcos Freitas still trains a lot with 2-2 and variations on it. See Dan's podcast with him, around 14:00 - 17:00. That interview had a big impact, I think it was one of Dan's best. Ever since I heard that, I have made that the mainstay of my practice.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/podcast/12187-tabletennisdaily-podcast-7-marcos-freitas/

One thing he emphasized is that pretty simple drills even at his level (top 10 in the world at the time of the interview) are a way to improve and maintain technique. Remember, you have to incorporate movement to the ball into your training. He mentions you can do all sorts of things to make it different. Close in, far away, a hybrid with the Falkenberg drill. But you need a partner with the skill and willingness to do it. Fortunately, I have a few.

I think that was also one of the drills Mark Croitoroo talked about when he talked about training in Europe and one of the coaches getting him to learn to track the ball with his feet instead of with his hand so that he was in the right position to take each ball.

That was before the shoulder injury that sidelined him. His shoulder is finally starting to get better though.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Gourav Acharya
07-20-2017, 02:40 AM
I knew the whole physics behind it, but I didn't know that it makes THAT much of a difference.

What exactly is happening differently when the ball hits the sweetspot compared to when it doesn't? Is the blade just harder there?
In theory the end of the blade acts like a whip. When you whip your hand like a rope all the potential energy is transferred from the body to the arm to the racket to the ball.

Sent from my Redmi 3S using Tapatalk

Audrey17
07-20-2017, 09:14 PM
It also a great opportunity to start working on the own consistency and accuracy. Ideally you should be able to play about twenty backhand loops in a row without a mistake.

Rajah*
07-25-2017, 01:48 PM
We have so many great points above, Allow me to add another confusing question,
How well do you reposition yourself (footwork) before hitting the shot? And do you simple use your arm swing or you assist your shot with leg strength and hip pivot.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

UpSideDownCarl
07-25-2017, 01:59 PM
Guys, one thing I am going to say: since the original post of this thread the OP has made one post. And then he deleted it himself. Since it is deleted only I can see the post. But it seems like, the thread should fade into the background if he does not want to participate to help people understand where his BH actually needs help.

To me it seems there is no need for any more posts here unless the OP contributes to help people know how he needs help.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy