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MaLongSenpai
09-07-2017, 09:38 PM
Hey!

So a very quick question which I hope will receive a quick response! Basically, I ordered two rubbers from PROTT (FH/BH H3 NEO National); these were the 'tuned' versions, but I'm not sure whether they need boosting straight out of the pack or whether I am able to use the pre tuned versions and then simply re-boost them at a later date

Also, as I understand it, with Chinese rubbers (when boosting) it's best to apply a layer of glue on the rubber and then boost...

Thank you very much!

ajtatosmano2
09-07-2017, 10:07 PM
Boost them. Nationals are the best rubbers to boost.

By the way, which booster is better for H3: Falco or Revolution XTreme?

yogi_bear
09-08-2017, 12:51 AM
i have used both tuners and falco long seem to have more effect and lasts longer. the revolution tuner is a more gentle tuner.

OhWell
09-08-2017, 02:41 AM
All the NEO rubbers - national, commercial, nittaku - are factory tuned. So the question of whether to add more booster arises for all of them.

Rare birds somehow like them as is with just the factory tuning. But most people much prefer all of them with 3+ layers of booster.

There are different methods for boosting them - some remove the factory tuning before boosting, some add glue after a first layer of boost, some add glue before putting any boost. With falco this method works well IMO:
https://youtu.be/hrc8lixJ4r8

MaLongSenpai
09-08-2017, 08:43 AM
In the absence of swift response I did some digging and, as it turns out, the factory 'tuning' layer is basically a loss in translation. About 1-2 years ago, a representative from DHS did a Q&A and stated that the tuning layer isn't booster but is in fact a layer of something similar to speed glue that would allow for someone to walk into a TT shop in China, buy the 'tuned' rubber and just slap it on the blade - boosting is still necessary.
I also discovered that this tuning layer means that, unless the rubber has been used before (In my case, these rubbers are brand new) there is no need to apply a base layer of glue before boosting - in actual fact, anyone familiar with the concept of glue would assume that applying an extra layer of glue on top of the 'tuner' would mean that it's harder for the booster to seep into the sponge and do it's job. I am in the process of applying the Falco booster as we speak, I have done two middling layers ready for a slightly thicker layer on the FH rubber given it's degree but I will be putting a slightly thinner layer on the BH given that is only a 37 degree rubber. Regardless, thank you for your help!

UpSideDownCarl
09-08-2017, 10:15 AM
Boost them. Nationals are the best rubbers to boost.

By the way, which booster is better for H3: Falco or Revolution XTreme?

I have heard that Haifu SeaMoon and Dianchi boosters are better than Falco for H3 and I have heard that Haifu Oil is better than either of those.

matzreenzi
09-08-2017, 10:44 AM
I have heard that Haifu SeaMoon and Dianchi boosters are better than Falco for H3 and I have heard that Haifu Oil is better than either of those.

I agree that Haifu SeaMoon is better for H3 than FalcoTLB in every aspect except Falco have longer effect obviously. Never tried Haifu oil though.

OhWell
09-08-2017, 01:13 PM
In the absence of swift response I did some digging and, as it turns out, the factory 'tuning' layer is basically a loss in translation. About 1-2 years ago, a representative from DHS did a Q&A and stated that the tuning layer isn't booster but is in fact a layer of something similar to speed glue that would allow for someone to walk into a TT shop in China, buy the 'tuned' rubber and just slap it on the blade - boosting is still necessary.
I also discovered that this tuning layer means that, unless the rubber has been used before (In my case, these rubbers are brand new) there is no need to apply a base layer of glue before boosting - in actual fact, anyone familiar with the concept of glue would assume that applying an extra layer of glue on top of the 'tuner' would mean that it's harder for the booster to seep into the sponge and do it's job. I am in the process of applying the Falco booster as we speak, I have done two middling layers ready for a slightly thicker layer on the FH rubber given it's degree but I will be putting a slightly thinner layer on the BH given that is only a 37 degree rubber. Regardless, thank you for your help!

- Making it harder for the booster to do its work isn't a mistake: that also makes it harder the booster to damage rubber, especially the bond between the topsheet and the sponge.

- About whether the tuning layer is booster, speed glue like, etc. Boosters aren't (normally) adhesives. The tuning layer is adhesive. So saying that the tuning layer is booster would be inaccurate. It's also not just glue: you say yourself that it has a "speed glue" like effect.

Speed glue is glue that also adds spin and speed to the rubber's performance. Booster does the latter without itself being adhesive. The semantic problem of what to call the factory applied layer on the neo, something that isn't has adhesive and boosting properties without being speed glue, isn't a very enticing rabbit hole. That's why there's no agreed upon term for whatever is in that layer. We could call it adhesive with boosting effect that isn't speed glue but that doesn't roll off the tongue.. ;)

If you are interested, this article does a nice job of explaining much of what these substances do to the sponge: https://thoughtsontabletennis.wordpress.com/2015/03/09/introduction-to-table-tennis-chemistry/

fxri
09-08-2017, 01:13 PM
I always use haifu seamoon on my h3 commercial, best effect for me better than speed glue. I used to use speed glue on my h3.

But the problem with seamoon is your h3 rubber will be tear apart after 1 or 2 months especially the sponge. You will almost unable to reglue it when the effect of the booster has gone and that means you have to buy another one.

Thats why I only use h3 commercial :D

Sent from Nokia 3310

SFF_lib
09-08-2017, 01:20 PM
I always use haifu seamoon on my h3 commercial, best effect for me better than speed glue. I used to use speed glue on my h3.

But the problem with seamoon is your h3 rubber will be tear apart after 1 or 2 months especially the sponge. You will almost unable to reglue it when the effect of the booster has gone and that means you have to buy another one.

Thats why I only use h3 commercial :D

Sent from Nokia 3310My national H3 with 4 layers o seamoon still looks 70% new after a year of play.

Probably that's why national is more expensive.

Passionate about TT

SFF_lib
09-08-2017, 01:21 PM
Boost them. Nationals are the best rubbers to boost.

By the way, which booster is better for H3: Falco or Revolution XTreme?Haifu Seamoon the best. Specifically designed for Chinese rubbers.

Passionate about TT

fxri
09-08-2017, 01:25 PM
My national H3 with 4 layers o seamoon still looks 70% new after a year of play.

Probably that's why national is more expensive.

Passionate about TTwow thats good for you, but one of my friend use h3 national blue sponge and he has the same experience as me after boosting his h3n :D

Sent from Nokia 3310

MaLongSenpai
09-08-2017, 01:26 PM
- Making it harder for the booster to do its work isn't a mistake: that also makes it harder the booster to damage rubber, especially the bond between the topsheet and the sponge.

- About whether the tuning layer is booster, speed glue like, etc. Boosters aren't (normally) adhesives. The tuning layer is adhesive. So saying that the tuning layer is booster would be inaccurate. It's also not just glue: you say yourself that it has a "speed glue" like effect.

Speed glue is glue that also adds spin and speed to the rubber's performance. Booster does the latter without itself being adhesive. The semantic problem of what to call the factory applied layer on the neo, something that isn't has adhesive and boosting properties without being speed glue, isn't a very enticing rabbit hole. That's why there's no agreed upon term for whatever is in that layer. We could call it adhesive with boosting effect that isn't speed glue but that doesn't roll off the tongue.. ;)

If you are interested, this article does a nice job of explaining much of what these substances do to the sponge: https://thoughtsontabletennis.wordpress.com/2015/03/09/introduction-to-table-tennis-chemistry/

I wouldn't describe putting a layer of glue on prior to boosting as a mistake and I'm sure in almost all cases outside of H3 NEO National, this applies; however, the DHS rep. stated that there wasn't a need to apply an additional layer of glue for the purposes of boost and when you combine the layer of 'tuner' (It's an adhesive that provides additional spin, control and power QED 'speed glue'...) with an additional layer of WBG then I do believe there would be a difference in how the rubber plays.

MaLongSenpai
09-08-2017, 01:31 PM
Haifu Seamoon the best. Specifically designed for Chinese rubbers.

Passionate about TT

Haifu SeaMoon isn't actually specifically designed for Chinese rubbers, it's just a Chinese booster that was made to be used in China (and given that everyone uses H3...you see where I'm going with this). I will refer you to my earlier statement about the fact that all boosters have varying effects of the rubbers, no one is the same and to replicate the feel and power of a rubber that has been heavily boosted with Haifu oil (not seamoon, I'm talking about the REAL shit) FLB was the best choice, but for the majority of players who don't have a photo of Ma Long in their downstairs toilet, Haifu SeaMoon is probably a good middle ground for use with Euro and Chinese rubbers.

Suga D
09-08-2017, 01:32 PM
Carl is right.
Falco is good
Seamoon is better.
Haifu Black Oil is the Killer!!!
The sheezy ma neezy!!
Tha shankle ma nankle!!
Here's what i'm talking 'bout

14165

MaLongSenpai
09-08-2017, 01:33 PM
I have heard that Haifu SeaMoon and Dianchi boosters are better than Falco for H3 and I have heard that Haifu Oil is better than either of those.



Haifu oil, the actual stuff (it's referred to as Haifu 'National' oil) is basically the equivalent of ducks teeth. If you live in the UK you can basically just resign yourself to the fact that you CANNOT obtain this oil. Dianchi is a common oil, but compared to SeaMoon it has a low viscosity. It's this Haifu oil that the CNT use and it's a good deal thicker than SeaMoon and a lot thicker than Dianchi. As a result, (I considered quite literally every booster available to me) I went with FLB; not only because the results mirror these Chinese oils but also because, after some pretty extensive digging across multiple forums, it became apparent that (and this is from the words of Chinese players themselves) unless you can get the OG Haifu oil then FLB is the best as it's in the middle ground in terms of viscosity and can replicate the feel and spin of a rubber boosted by a CNT player, especially on National rubbers which apparently respond better to FLB than Dianchi, which (again, according to the information I collated) is because Dianchi (due to low viscosity) is better used on European rubbers with a softer sponge (that's not to say it can't be used on H3, but apparently FLB yields better results). Naturally, it's what the individual player prefers to use more than anything else and given my goal was to replicate


TL;DR If you have a bottle of OG Haifu...I am ****ing coming for you.

MaLongSenpai
09-08-2017, 01:38 PM
Carl is right.
Falco is good
Seamoon is better.
Haifu Black Oil is the Killer!!!
The sheezy ma neezy!!
Tha shankle ma nankle!!
Here's what i'm talking 'bout

14165

Damn straight but there is no way I will be making the effort to try and get some of that any time soon but I'd love to know where you got that, I understand the only place to get it reliably is physically in China or Hong Kong.
As for general use, despite my comments regarding viscosity (which, when boosting provincial and especially commercial is a huge plus as it gets the rubber much closer to the consistency of a boosted national rubber) SeaMoon is probably the most readily available and the easiest to use. I did consider going for SeaMoon oil and I liked what I heard but it wouldn't provide the experience I was looking for from my booster (re: earlier comments regarding my desire to replicate the feeling of a processional tier rubber which is why I bought National in the first place).

UpSideDownCarl
09-08-2017, 04:16 PM
Carl is right.
Falco is good
Seamoon is better.
Haifu Black Oil is the Killer!!!
The sheezy ma neezy!!
Tha shankle ma nankle!!
Here's what i'm talking 'bout

14165

That is a thing of beauty. [emoji2]


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

SFF_lib
09-08-2017, 08:35 PM
In the absence of swift response I did some digging and, as it turns out, the factory 'tuning' layer is basically a loss in translation. About 1-2 years ago, a representative from DHS did a Q&A and stated that the tuning layer isn't booster but is in fact a layer of something similar to speed glue that would allow for someone to walk into a TT shop in China, buy the 'tuned' rubber and just slap it on the blade - boosting is still necessary.
I also discovered that this tuning layer means that, unless the rubber has been used before (In my case, these rubbers are brand new) there is no need to apply a base layer of glue before boosting - in actual fact, anyone familiar with the concept of glue would assume that applying an extra layer of glue on top of the 'tuner' would mean that it's harder for the booster to seep into the sponge and do it's job. I am in the process of applying the Falco booster as we speak, I have done two middling layers ready for a slightly thicker layer on the FH rubber given it's degree but I will be putting a slightly thinner layer on the BH given that is only a 37 degree rubber. Regardless, thank you for your help!
Before putting applying booster, leave the rubber to air dry for like a day. Once the glue layer is dry, the sponge will react to booster better.

The other thing to take into account is the sponge hardness and your blade.

For example, if you put a 41 Neo H3N on a soft Stiga OC, i would suggest against any boosting as boosting will soften the sponge making the setup too soft.

But if you put the same 41 H3N on a fast carbon blade, I would suggest at least three layers of booster.

And if your FH H3N is 39 degree, you probably just want to put a single layer of booster.

Just some examples.

Passionate about TT

MaLongSenpai
09-08-2017, 09:40 PM
After taking the rubber out of the pavket which wasn't what I was expecting at all by the way, I did wait for the super sticky glue layer to dry for about 2/3 hours and it seemed fine, it wasnt sticky at all

MaLongSenpai
09-08-2017, 09:42 PM
Carl is right.
Falco is good
Seamoon is better.
Haifu Black Oil is the Killer!!!
The sheezy ma neezy!!
Tha shankle ma nankle!!
Here's what i'm talking 'bout

14165

I don't mean to nag but, whete did you get a hold of this and/or are you aware of any online retailers that sell it? :D

ajtatosmano2
09-09-2017, 10:00 AM
I will buy FL, because the chinese boosters are more expensive and I am on budget.
But I am curious, MaLongSenpai, what do you think about Kailin oil?

MaLongSenpai
09-09-2017, 02:44 PM
I will buy FL, because the chinese boosters are more expensive and I am on budget.
But I am curious, MaLongSenpai, what do you think about Kailin oil?

It's a bit thicker than Dianchi so more like the Haifu oil above, it's quite expensive to get online but it's a really good booster!

Suga D
09-09-2017, 03:07 PM
I don't mean to nag but, whete did you get a hold of this and/or are you aware of any online retailers that sell it? :D

I've got my bottle from a friend who was in China and brought it along. He actually wanted to come again to Germany this year. So if you're not in a rush i can ask if he could bring another bottle. But then again maybe ProTT will have some in store again by then. Why not ask if they plan to stock up again. As you probably already know: he's quite responsive.
:)

MaLongSenpai
09-09-2017, 06:35 PM
I've got my bottle from a friend who was in China and brought it along. He actually wanted to come again to Germany this year. So if you're not in a rush i can ask if he could bring another bottle. But then again maybe ProTT will have some in store again by then. Why not ask if they plan to stock up again. As you probably already know: he's quite responsive.
:)

Haha yes youre quite right PROTT customer service is very good. It depends on when your friend will will return? Naturally, I will ask PROTT if it will be in stock again, because its the shit

MaLongSenpai
09-09-2017, 06:45 PM
I will buy FL, because the chinese boosters are more expensive and I am on budget.
But I am curious, MaLongSenpai, what do you think about Kailin oil?

If you do that then get some Falco Optimum glue it's excellent works well with the new ball and works really well with the booster, its easily on the level of Nittaku FineZip if not better when used in conjunction with FLB

ajtatosmano2
09-09-2017, 06:54 PM
If you do that then get some Falco Optimum glue it's excellent works well with the new ball and works really well with the booster, its easily on the level of Nittaku FineZip if not better when used in conjunction with FLB

Thanks the tip, but I will use Revolution No.3. Nearly everyone uses that here in my club (pro players too) and I have a plenty of experience with it. And I have a quarter bottle of it.

Tajny1989
09-10-2017, 07:28 PM
Haifu is the best tuning

Tajny1989
09-10-2017, 07:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbVmfF0Gr48

Chen Chen
09-11-2017, 12:57 PM
If you are interested in how to boost hurricane, you can find my post in my thread (For sale: DHS national equipment). Don't think Prott has the black oil in stock. Seamoon is commercial version.

MaLongSenpai
09-11-2017, 03:18 PM
Yeah, unfortunately PROTT doesn't have it in stock at the moment although I think I have managed to find a place that does. Please let me know of any retailers you know that also stock this oil as I would like to obtain some.

panany
09-11-2017, 07:44 PM
in national chinese team nobody use haifu black....

all uses yellow ...


somes uses lidu ... and for european rubber they use kailin ...



and lot of provincial player use kailin for h3 tooo

MaLongSenpai
09-12-2017, 03:50 PM
Someone call the goon squad.

RidTheKid
09-12-2017, 04:29 PM
Source?


in national chinese team nobody use haifu black....

all uses yellow ...


somes uses lidu ... and for european rubber they use kailin ...



and lot of provincial player use kailin for h3 tooo

panany
09-12-2017, 08:27 PM
i know somes player in national tam chinese and i have somes contact by somes friends with somes other player from national team chinese ...

like hao shuai, fang bo, zhou yu , shang kun, zhang jike, zhang chao and somes less famous

panany
09-13-2017, 08:23 AM
And i have ask how zhou yu use haifu too

RidTheKid
09-13-2017, 08:51 AM
I will ask Ma Long how he uses Haifu Black oil

panany
09-13-2017, 09:18 AM
U think I lie ??? Lol

Give me your WhatsApp and u will see I don't lie ;)

Or messenger or another things ....


If u have questions I can try answer u ;)

RidTheKid
09-13-2017, 09:33 AM
I think such a claim would be of interest to everyone on this forum :)

panany
09-13-2017, 09:50 AM
But if u don't trust me ... i don't want wast my time ...

by example my very good friend is best friend with fang bo ....

And he accompanied fang bo for play Russian league ...
because fang bo don't want go alone, because this is not usually for him travel alone ... he don't speak English so good then he ask president if his friend can go with him.... then my friend go with fang bo for this competition ...

I have somes private pic my friend send me ...

Too u know last year Zhang chao come play 2 matchs in French league ... it's me contact Zhang chao for he comes play for this club ...

This season jiang tianyi will play French league u know ???

What more u want know ???

U want see picture blade i get from zjk, rubber ? Blade from fang bo ???

Give me your WhatsApp u will see and u will know im not lier

I have no reason to lie ... I sell nothing... why I need lie ?

MaLongSenpai
09-13-2017, 04:00 PM
But if u don't trust me ... i don't want wast my time ...

by example my very good friend is best friend with fang bo ....

And he accompanied fang bo for play Russian league ...
because fang bo don't want go alone, because this is not usually for him travel alone ... he don't speak English so good then he ask president if his friend can go with him.... then my friend go with fang bo for this competition ...

I have somes private pic my friend send me ...

Too u know last year Zhang chao come play 2 matchs in French league ... it's me contact Zhang chao for he comes play for this club ...

This season jiang tianyi will play French league u know ???

What more u want know ???

U want see picture blade i get from zjk, rubber ? Blade from fang bo ???

Give me your WhatsApp u will see and u will know im not lier

I have no reason to lie ... I sell nothing... why I need lie ?

No one has actually said you're lying, they have just implied it. Given that you have said you basically know Ma Long and are mates with some of the CNT, you might be able to understand why they are a little dubious. As it is, I'm sure you're telling the truth because someone who would go to the lengths you have to attempt to prove that they are correct are either A. Correct or B. Insane, and for the benefit of the doubt, I will assume you're not insane.
I appreciate your posts as they shed interesting light on the theories surrounding which booster the CNT use so keep posting as you seem to have insider information!!

panany
09-13-2017, 04:17 PM
I see if u have any question I will try answer ... :) or I will try ask somes friend ask them if I can't answer :)

Last time with my friend we talk with zhou tu and he says he uses kailin for backhand and haifu for forehand

For h3 he says 1 layer white glue ... 3 oil ... 1 little layer glue ... he plays 1 days

And he start glue again 1 exactly same ... after rubber is good ...

I get this information because in my team 1 Chinese ... and he is friend with shang kun and Zhou yu.... then sometimes we can talk ...

On 2013 in Paris world championships I meet Zhou yu with him ... and we do somes pic ... talk ... was good moment :)

panany
09-13-2017, 04:24 PM
I have too somes private pic and racket from fang bo when he plays in Russia ... if u want see u can add me on messenger I will send u pic , I can send u too pic of blade zjk with signature I get , rubber too and blade from fang bo with signature too ...

My messenger nicolas saint antonin

yuri.saldon
09-13-2017, 04:26 PM
I have a question but not about national team but about boosting.

What is the best way to boost hurricane 3 NEO with haifu seamoon? Do I peel of the neo layer and put glue and booster, or put the directly on the sponge?

I don't want to be very fast, something like mx-p after the factory boost effect it will be great.

Please the safe method to avoid bubbles

Thanks!!!

Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

panany
09-13-2017, 04:32 PM
Me I do : 1 layer white glue ( but need big white glue like nittaku ) and 3 or 4 layer haifu , and 1 very little layer white glue ... and is good...

I play with h3 neo orange too ( I can't play with blue because if blue , after 2 week rubber dead because bubble on top sheet )

ajtatosmano2
09-13-2017, 06:59 PM
panany, I understood well that you put one additional glue layer OVER the Neo factory glue layer and the booster comes just after that?

panany
09-13-2017, 07:24 PM
yes :) first whit glue ... after oil 3 or 4 time... and after just little layer white glue :)

MaLongSenpai
09-13-2017, 10:17 PM
Me I do : 1 layer white glue ( but need big white glue like nittaku ) and 3 or 4 layer haifu , and 1 very little layer white glue ... and is good...

I play with h3 neo orange too ( I can't play with blue because if blue , after 2 week rubber dead because bubble on top sheet )

You make a valid point about the blue sponge H3; the top-sheet is very prone to bubbling! Thankfully, mine is holding up reasonably well and there is only 2 moderate bubbles on the edge which won't effect play but it's still a problem. I don't really see any way around it either; if anyone sees this and knows how to avoid this happening on H3 blue sponge please chime in!

panany
09-13-2017, 10:28 PM
You make a valid point about the blue sponge H3; the top-sheet is very prone to bubbling! Thankfully, mine is holding up reasonably well and there is only 2 moderate bubbles on the edge which won't effect play but it's still a problem. I don't really see any way around it either; if anyone sees this and knows how to avoid this happening on H3 blue sponge please chime in!

u cant .... is all blue sponge like that..... they always broke ... u know player in national team change rubber all 3 days if training, everyday if play open, and all match for wold championship JO and all big match...


thus rubber normally is not for sell , all player get this rubber free......


u need try use orange less bubble but sometimes too ...


before i know shang kun dont use h3 blue sponge in forehand but lidu rubber ( blue sponge ) but i never try that

RidTheKid
09-14-2017, 05:38 AM
I've had absolutely no problems with the National blue sponge. Durability and longevity is amazing. A HQ rubber for sure.

panany
09-14-2017, 06:59 AM
I've had absolutely no problems with the National blue sponge. Durability and longevity is amazing. A HQ rubber for sure.

Maybe depends level... but for me 2 weeks maximum and bubble for sure .... and all chinese i know say me bery easy do bubble with h3 blue

MaLongSenpai
09-14-2017, 12:41 PM
I've had absolutely no problems with the National blue sponge. Durability and longevity is amazing. A HQ rubber for sure.

Don't get me wrong it plays incredibly well but a matter of fact is that it's very easy to bubble the topsheet because of the type of sponge. It's a shame but it won't stop me using blue sponge, I just need to be careful with what booster I use on my nationals

Chen Chen
09-14-2017, 01:05 PM
Don't get me wrong it plays incredibly well but a matter of fact is that it's very easy to bubble the topsheet because of the type of sponge. It's a shame but it won't stop me using blue sponge, I just need to be careful with what booster I use on my nationals

Then maybe something wrong with the way how you boost the rubber. It is not the booster I guess.

panany
09-14-2017, 01:12 PM
Then maybe something wrong with the way how you boost the rubber. It is not the booster I guess.

no i dont think so ... for me too is same... if i play 2 week rubber is dead...

i talk too with somes chineses player and is same for them... if booster, h3 neo blue dead after 1 week maximum ...

Suga D
09-14-2017, 02:03 PM
You make a valid point about the blue sponge H3; the top-sheet is very prone to bubbling! Thankfully, mine is holding up reasonably well and there is only 2 moderate bubbles on the edge which won't effect play but it's still a problem. I don't really see any way around it either; if anyone sees this and knows how to avoid this happening on H3 blue sponge please chime in!

Well, i´ve been boosting the way how Chen Chen described and i NEVER had the slightest (Michael) Bublé.... err.... Bubble(Insider joke between Nicolas and me)
[Emoji12]


u cant .... is all blue sponge like that..... they always broke ... u know player in national team change rubber all 3 days if training, everyday if play open, and all match for wold championship JO and all big match...


thus rubber normally is not for sell , all player get this rubber free......


u need try use orange less bubble but sometimes too ...


before i know shang kun dont use h3 blue sponge in forehand but lidu rubber ( blue sponge ) but i never try that

I´ve exactly heard the opposite that the orange sponge tends to produce Michael Bublé much easier...


I've had absolutely no problems with the National blue sponge. Durability and longevity is amazing. A HQ rubber for sure.

That would be pretty much the same experience as mine...
[Emoji2]


Maybe depends level... but for me 2 weeks maximum and bubble for sure .... and all chinese i know say me bery easy do bubble with h3 blue

Hahahaaa... nice joke you make there
[Emoji23]


Then maybe something wrong with the way how you boost the rubber. It is not the booster I guess.

Thanks mate...


no i dont think so ... for me too is same... if i play 2 week rubber is dead...

i talk too with somes chineses player and is same for them... if booster, h3 neo blue dead after 1 week maximum ...

Well, i´ve been holding my tongue for a while now, ´cause i wanted to see how far you getting carried away, but now i couldn´t hold back anymore.

Generally speaking: people ALWAYS have different experiences. So there is no right or wrong here.

As far as i can say it´s 100% the boosting technique and 0% the level and as i already wrote above, i´ve never had that happen to my H3 Rubbers yet. Not even to Commercial H3.

And Chen Chen wasn´t the only one who showed me to boost that way. A well known pro has shown me the same technique (the People who know me most likely know who I´m talking about, so no braggin´ or name dropping from my side here, since the People could get in serious trouble, but that doesn´t seem to bother our smart Nicolas) and as i said in the nearly three years i´ve been playing with H3 now, my Rubbers didn´t bubble so far.

panany
09-14-2017, 02:16 PM
ok if u want .... but all chinese strong i know.... somes play just in france in level 3 (we play same team ) ... all say same ... probleme with h3blue is more easy to broke.....

yesterday i talk yet with 1 chinese ( level province in china ) play with blue sponge, and he says me **** my last is dead after only 3 days :/

for orange i need play 1 month a lot for bubble ...

but have u 1 video for i see how u play ??? :)

And for finish of course broke rubber depends of your level u think player in national team if training 2 hours rubber will be used like if me play or if u play ? Of course not ...
me too i know somes player play with h3 blue in france they play département level of course they don't broke h3 blue ... then can play 1 years he will be safe ;)

i let u see my level ( im not very strong ... :/ )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrFBQ2nB6Pc&t=27s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLVAaKyHrQ8&t=54s

MaLongSenpai
09-14-2017, 02:37 PM
Then maybe something wrong with the way how you boost the rubber. It is not the booster I guess.

I don't think so, I am pretty confident that I am boosting it correctly and I am very careful with where I put the booster towards the edge of the rubber but then again, i doubt you have ever used Falco long Term booster on a National blue sponge so you might not have encountered the same problem I have. It's still a great rubber though!

panany
09-14-2017, 02:41 PM
And now with plastic ball I feel rubber bubble more easy yet

Maybe because ball more hard ???

Chen Chen
09-14-2017, 03:18 PM
ok if u want .... but all chinese strong i know.... somes play just in france in level 3 (we play same team ) ... all say same ... probleme with h3blue is more easy to broke.....

yesterday i talk yet with 1 chinese ( level province in china ) play with blue sponge, and he says me **** my last is dead after only 3 days :/

for orange i need play 1 month a lot for bubble ...

but have u 1 video for i see how u play ??? :)

And for finish of course broke rubber depends of your level u think player in national team if training 2 hours rubber will be used like if me play or if u play ? Of course not ...
me too i know somes player play with h3 blue in france they play département level of course they don't broke h3 blue ... then can play 1 years he will be safe ;)

i let u see my level ( im not very strong ... :/ )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrFBQ2nB6Pc&t=27s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLVAaKyHrQ8&t=54s

Of course you are a good player. :)

MaLongSenpai
09-14-2017, 03:27 PM
Well, i´ve been boosting the way how Chen Chen described and i NEVER had the slightest (Michael) Bublé.... err.... Bubble(Insider joke between Nicolas and me)
[Emoji12]



I´ve exactly heard the opposite that the orange sponge tends to produce Michael Bublé much easier...



That would be pretty much the same experience as mine...
[Emoji2]



Hahahaaa... nice joke you make there
[Emoji23]



Thanks mate...



Well, i´ve been holding my tongue for a while now, ´cause i wanted to see how far you getting carried away, but now i couldn´t hold back anymore.

Generally speaking: people ALWAYS have different experiences. So there is no right or wrong here.

As far as i can say it´s 100% the boosting technique and 0% the level and as i already wrote above, i´ve never had that happen to my H3 Rubbers yet. Not even to Commercial H3.

And Chen Chen wasn´t the only one who showed me to boost that way. A well known pro has shown me the same technique (the People who know me most likely know who I´m talking about, so no braggin´ or name dropping from my side here, since the People could get in serious trouble, but that doesn´t seem to bother our smart Nicolas) and as i said in the nearly three years i´ve been playing with H3 now, my Rubbers didn´t bubble so far.

A mixture of technique and the boost being used is almost certainly the reason for this; again, this comes down to what you term 'technique'. However, that being said; I haven't encountered this problem using the same exact methods with commercial yet, here we are!
I'd be careful mate, you're very close to incurring the wrath of the goon squad with those comments about the pro's and from recent experiences I can assure you that they are lurking right around the corner.

Seriously though, name drop; name drop like you've never name dropped before! I want to know!

panany
09-14-2017, 03:39 PM
Chen Chen for French im not good player of course not bad ... but not very good ^^

panany
09-14-2017, 03:48 PM
And for back to talk about this topic ...

I would use blue , I feel is better than orange ... but really can't ... club give me somes money's for buy rubber ... but I have limits of course ...

Then I can't use blue because more often broke :(
Then I use orange....

My friend Chinese say me
Maybe try rubber lidu ... he says with booster is good too ...

Chinese play in my team use kailin ( but he not use Chinese rubber )

ajtatosmano2
09-14-2017, 06:00 PM
panany, work on footwork! :) You do some quality shots in your videos when you are ready for the shot, a better footwork would increase your success rate

----

MaLongSenpai has been banned, I wonder why? Anyone?

Suga D
09-14-2017, 08:28 PM
ok if u want .... but all chinese strong i know.... somes play just in france in level 3 (we play same team ) ... all say same ... probleme with h3blue is more easy to broke.....

yesterday i talk yet with 1 chinese ( level province in china ) play with blue sponge, and he says me **** my last is dead after only 3 days :/

for orange i need play 1 month a lot for bubble ...

but have u 1 video for i see how u play ??? :)

And for finish of course broke rubber depends of your level u think player in national team if training 2 hours rubber will be used like if me play or if u play ? Of course not ...
me too i know somes player play with h3 blue in france they play département level of course they don't broke h3 blue ... then can play 1 years he will be safe ;)

i let u see my level ( im not very strong ... :/ )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrFBQ2nB6Pc&t=27s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLVAaKyHrQ8&t=54s

Nice vids, Nicolas, but this is not a peeing contest, and I'm too old for this kind of childish nonsense. You might be better than me or not. Unfortunately i don't have any footage of myself playing competetively (yet), all i got is a short vid of me and my friend practicing with the amicus robot, but you've probably seen them already anyway, since you're also on my facebook.

But anyhow there's no need for any whatsoever kind of compensations.

But maybe we could play this out one day though.
[Emoji6]

Now back to topic: maybe it's been a language barrier, but all i was trying to say is:
that DIFFERENT people will make DIFFERENT experiences,

so in your case i wouldn't run around and pretend i was the keeper of all knowledge.
I stopped doing that when i turned 18 or 19. You seem to be older, so maybe i was expecting a little more mature reaction.
But maybe it's all language barrier and i've just misunderstood the tone of your posts.

Suga D
09-14-2017, 09:12 PM
friends use foam cleaners, but i got “Reach rubber wash for tacky rubbers“ but i've also used Revolution 3

Fabian
09-14-2017, 10:01 PM
Just water and sponge and then put on a non adhesive sheet. That will recover the tackiness

yuri.saldon
09-15-2017, 01:36 AM
What is that Chen Chen techniques to boost?

I want to avoid bubbles

Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

shinshiro
09-15-2017, 04:11 AM
What is that Chen Chen techniques to boost?

I want to avoid bubbles

Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk


I am using haifu black oil and nittaku fine zip glue. Boosting is only for the brand new rubbers and I am only use hurricane 3 neo version.

After open the packaging:
1. Put first layer of oil on, wait for 1 or 2 days till oil gets dry, which means there is no finger print when press the sponge
2. Second layer of oil on, wait for 1 or 2 days till oil gets dry
3. First layer of glue on, when glue gets dry, then put third layer of oil on, wait for 1 or 2 days till oil gets dry
4. Put fourth layer of oil on, wait for 1 or 2 days till oil gets dry
5. Second layer of glue on, then the rubber is ready to put on the blade.


If you want to make the oil get dry quicker, could use a small fan or put under the window. The key thing is that make sure the oil gets dry properly.


Basically, there are three layers of glue (neo version has one premade layer of glue) and four layers of oil on the rubber. Two layers of glue on the blade.


This is only my way to boost the rubber after I tried different ways and I found this is the best for myself. Just for your reference. Hope this helps you.


Enjoy boosting boosting boosting......

Post #99 from this thread:
https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?12942-For-Sale-DHS-national-equipment-(rubbers-and-blades)/page5

MaLongSenpai
09-15-2017, 08:29 AM
What is that Chen Chen techniques to boost?

I want to avoid bubbles

Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

Hey Yuri!
SO basically, I want to provide a very quick update regarding this bubbling problem; now, I can say with certainty that you need to be careful with FLB and how you apply it (goes without saying for booster but this stuff is basically liquid Uranium with respect to rubber topsheets) however! After letting the rubbers dry under with wind (indoor fan) the bubbling is now barely noticeable! I can assume that the bubbling will reduce further as the sponge continues to expand and return to it's original shape; all you need to do when boosting is be careful and apply it using singular strokes from the bottom of the rubber to the top of the rubber, almost like mowing a lawn! This gives the best consistency in terms of the booster but don't get me wrong, Chen Chen's technique is the one to use!

panany
09-15-2017, 09:00 AM
I think buble not depends how u boost... :/

I really know somes Chinese ( of course they know how boost) play in Europe want use blue ... but say can't because more expensive because broke all 3 days 4 days

And after they are in Europe they have limited rubber

MaLongSenpai
09-15-2017, 09:03 AM
I think buble not depends how u boost... :/

I really know somes Chinese play in Europe want use blue ... but say can't because more expensive because broke all 3 days 4 days

And after they are in Europe they have limited rubber

Well, this bubbling was almost certainly a result of my 'technique' as Suga D accurately put it; FLB is a little different to other boosters but it seems insane to say that all H3 NEO Blue Sponge dies after like 2 weeks max. I will be boosting my National heavily but I don't think it will die in two weeks of play. Although, bubbling is something that effects all boosted rubber Chinese or not and 9/10 they are a result of carelessness when boosting; but I do believe you mate!

panany
09-15-2017, 11:48 AM
But the best for Chinese rubber is haifu , lidu , kailin , or seamoon for boost rubber

Falco is not very good with Chinese rubber ..

MaLongSenpai
09-15-2017, 11:58 AM
But the best for Chinese rubber is haifu , lidu , kailin , or seamoon for boost rubber

Falco is not very good with Chinese rubber ..

I tend to disagree actually, I think it works incredibly well on Chinese rubbers and especially on National Sponge which is a bit softer than the provincial/commercial rubbers so it benefits from a booster with a high viscosity as opposed to Seamoon or Haifu, which have low viscosity. It's an important consideration to make when boosting your rubber and you need to know the best type of boost for your specific grade of rubber; if I was using a 41 degree rubber then it would be sensible to boost it with something like Haifu but given that I play 40 degree and my play style benefits from a hard, boosted sponge then Falco Long Term booster is the best choice FOR ME (I would have loved some National haifu but that isn't going to happen for a while I don't think). A lot of people have had good results with FLB on Chinese rubbers and I stand by that booster as an excellent alternative to Chinese boosters.

UpSideDownCarl
09-15-2017, 12:50 PM
Okay. I think I am going to talk about the reason for bubbles and what is actually happening. :) Hopefully this helps you guys understand why there are a couple of factors that can cause bubbling. And how a higher level player may get more bubbling than a lower level player. And also how, boosting can effect bubbling.

So, when they make a sheet of rubber like, say, H3, MXP or any other rubber, the topsheet has to be glued onto the sponge. That is how the topsheet is attached to the sponge. The glue they use to attach the topsheet to the sponge is important. It is similar to the glues we use to attach the sponge to the racket. The factory may use VOC glues to attach the topsheet to the sponge, but it is still a similar kind of glue with a similar kind of bonding. Which also means similar solvents will work on this glue if you wanted to separate the topsheet from the sponge.

Now before we go into boosters, we can talk about bubbles without the need of talking about boosters. One of two things can happen when you get a bubble. If you hit the ball so hard that you break a pimple, or a couple of pimples, you will get a bubble. If you hit the ball so hard that you separate a pimple from the sponge, you will also get a bubble.

A high level player like panany could get bubbles just from how hard he swing on his opening loop. Look at how much spin and arc he gets on some of those opening loops. He is a decently high level player who plays with a lot of impact. If you add the booster into the equation, I imagine that it is quite easy for him to get bubbles or maybe quite hard for him to not get bubbles.

Also, since he is playing at quite a high level, his experience with bubbles may be different than other players who do not get as much force into their impact. So, some of the discussion may be like people talking about two different things and thinking they are talking about the same thing. :)

Now, lets add details about these boosters. The oils in the boosters all would function well as solvents for the glues we use to glue our rubber to our blade. If you ever felt you were having trouble getting your rubber off of your blade you could put some of that booster (whichever kind) or even mineral oil, onto the area of the sponge that was sticking and, if you waited a few minutes for the oil to sink in, it would soften the glue and help undo the bond.

If you wanted to separate the topsheet from a sponge, applying the booster to the area where the pimples attach to the sponge, and were patient, you would be able to remove the topsheet from the sponge by softening the bonds that attach each separate pimple to the sponge.

When you boost you add the booster oil to the sponge side. But, like a household sponge, the sponge on your rubber will absorb certain things. If you took a household sponge and put it on top of a small spill of water, it would absorb the water. The porous nature of a sponge is designed to do that. If you used the sponge on some oil, it would take longer, but it would absorb it too. With water or oil, that household sponge would expand. With the sponge on your rubber, water or oil will cause it to expand too. Only, water would not give you good playing characteristics because the water would fill the bubbles and it would also damage the wood. But you can test it on an old piece of rubber. If you spread water on the sponge, it will sink in and the sponge will expand. Then when the water evaporated, the sponge would return to its original size.

So, you put the booster on the sponge, and the oil sinks into the sponge and that causes the sponge to expand. Now some booster will get to the side of the sponge where the pimples are. So the glue bond between the pimple and sponge will be a little weaker for a time. If as the oil evaporates, the bond strengthens enough, you may not get bubbles. If you don't use quite as much booster, you may not get as much bubbles. If there is a little glue on the sponge to absorb some of the booster and make the booster take a little longer to get to the sponge, it may make it less likely for you to get bubbles. But if you use a lot of booster and you have good technique and brush hard with deep impact, that will make it much more likely that you separate pimples from sponge and end up with bubbles. Whereas, if you hit hard, but your contact is less tangential and more direct, that will not put as much stress on the bond between the pimples and the sponge.

So, lower level technique will be less likely to cause bubbles than the technique of a higher level player.

However, as far as I am concerned, a process that takes a whole week, like boosting, before you can put your rubber onto your racket is too fussy for me. So I stopped using H3 years ago and use whatever tensor or tenergy like rubber is on my racket at the moment. :)

Anyway, I hope this information helps you guys understand why a guy like panany has such a different experience with Blue Sponge Bubbling than most of the forum members.

Now I am going to go back and watch few more of panany's opening loops because they are a thing of beauty. :)

panany
09-15-2017, 01:04 PM
i have 1 other video i use yet h3 neo orange with booster ... if people is want see how i use this rubber i can post there

UpSideDownCarl
09-15-2017, 01:27 PM
i have 1 other video i use yet h3 neo orange with booster ... if people is want see how i use this rubber i can post there

Go ahead. Post it. Not many are comfortable posting such a close match where they are up in the final game and end up not winning. Anyone who knows TT can see you play pretty decently though.

panany
09-15-2017, 01:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqJNEbhHBbI&t=5s


i dont have other video ... i get always video if friend do .. if not i dont have ^^

2 videos of me 2 loose haha ...

First video im stupid loose because i think i loose alone ... ^^

but this match this guy is really mor strong than me... 1 year ago i loose him 3 2 i have possibility win... but this day i cant win haha he plays better

i boost only forehand not backhand

MaLongSenpai
09-15-2017, 01:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqJNEbhHBbI&t=5s


i dont have other video ... i get always video if friend do .. if not i dont have ^^

2 videos of me 2 loose haha ...

First video im stupid loose because i think i loose alone ... ^^

but this match this guy is really mor strong than me... 1 year ago i loose him 3 2 i have possibility win... but this day i cant win haha he plays better

i boost only forehand not backhand

I'm not sure if you have mentioned this before but what do you currently play with, in terms of your blade and rubbers etc? I'm quite curious!

panany
09-15-2017, 01:47 PM
backhand this year i use bryce speed fx ... maybe i will ask my club for try rozenna

MaLongSenpai
09-15-2017, 01:47 PM
Okay. I think I am going to talk about the reason for bubbles and what is actually happening. :) Hopefully this helps you guys understand why there are a couple of factors that can cause bubbling. And how a higher level player may get more bubbling than a lower level player. And also how, boosting can effect bubbling.

So, when they make a sheet of rubber like, say, H3, MXP or any other rubber, the topsheet has to be glued onto the sponge. That is how the topsheet is attached to the sponge. The glue they use to attach the topsheet to the sponge is important. It is similar to the glues we use to attach the sponge to the racket. The factory may use VOC glues to attach the topsheet to the sponge, but it is still a similar kind of glue with a similar kind of bonding. Which also means similar solvents will work on this glue if you wanted to separate the topsheet from the sponge.

Now before we go into boosters, we can talk about bubbles without the need of talking about boosters. One of two things can happen when you get a bubble. If you hit the ball so hard that you break a pimple, or a couple of pimples, you will get a bubble. If you hit the ball so hard that you separate a pimple from the sponge, you will also get a bubble.

A high level player like panany could get bubbles just from how hard he swing on his opening loop. Look at how much spin and arc he gets on some of those opening loops. He is a decently high level player who plays with a lot of impact. If you add the booster into the equation, I imagine that it is quite easy for him to get bubbles or maybe quite hard for him to not get bubbles.

Also, since he is playing at quite a high level, his experience with bubbles may be different than other players who do not get as much force into their impact. So, some of the discussion may be like people talking about two different things and thinking they are talking about the same thing. :)

Now, lets add details about these boosters. The oils in the boosters all would function well as solvents for the glues we use to glue our rubber to our blade. If you ever felt you were having trouble getting your rubber off of your blade you could put some of that booster (whichever kind) or even mineral oil, onto the area of the sponge that was sticking and, if you waited a few minutes for the oil to sink in, it would soften the glue and help undo the bond.

If you wanted to separate the topsheet from a sponge, applying the booster to the area where the pimples attach to the sponge, and were patient, you would be able to remove the topsheet from the sponge by softening the bonds that attach each separate pimple to the sponge.

When you boost you add the booster oil to the sponge side. But, like a household sponge, the sponge on your rubber will absorb certain things. If you took a household sponge and put it on top of a small spill of water, it would absorb the water. The porous nature of a sponge is designed to do that. If you used the sponge on some oil, it would take longer, but it would absorb it too. With water or oil, that household sponge would expand. With the sponge on your rubber, water or oil will cause it to expand too. Only, water would not give you good playing characteristics because the water would fill the bubbles and it would also damage the wood. But you can test it on an old piece of rubber. If you spread water on the sponge, it will sink in and the sponge will expand. Then when the water evaporated, the sponge would return to its original size.

So, you put the booster on the sponge, and the oil sinks into the sponge and that causes the sponge to expand. Now some booster will get to the side of the sponge where the pimples are. So the glue bond between the pimple and sponge will be a little weaker for a time. If as the oil evaporates, the bond strengthens enough, you may not get bubbles. If you don't use quite as much booster, you may not get as much bubbles. If there is a little glue on the sponge to absorb some of the booster and make the booster take a little longer to get to the sponge, it may make it less likely for you to get bubbles. But if you use a lot of booster and you have good technique and brush hard with deep impact, that will make it much more likely that you separate pimples from sponge and end up with bubbles. Whereas, if you hit hard, but your contact is less tangential and more direct, that will not put as much stress on the bond between the pimples and the sponge.

So, lower level technique will be less likely to cause bubbles than the technique of a higher level player.

However, as far as I am concerned, a process that takes a whole week, like boosting, before you can put your rubber onto your racket is too fussy for me. So I stopped using H3 years ago and use whatever tensor or tenergy like rubber is on my racket at the moment. :)

Anyway, I hope this information helps you guys understand why a guy like panany has such a different experience with Blue Sponge Bubbling than most of the forum members.

Now I am going to go back and watch few more of panany's opening loops because they are a thing of beauty. :)

Despite boosting, I actually have a significant problem with it and I don't think it's conducive to the sport in any way shape or form and it saddens me that this isn't going to change, frankly ever.
I don't really know where it originates from and, aside from the properties of FLB, it's helpful that I can leave the rubber on the blade for a few months before having to go through this ridiculous process once again. I upgraded my glue to Nittaku FineZip in the week for the very purpose of gluing boosted rubbers to my long V without having to wait a week for them to completely flatten out.

MaLongSenpai
09-15-2017, 01:51 PM
backhand this year i use bryce speed fx ... maybe i will ask my club for try rozenna

Apparently, and this is literally based off things I have read on this forum and this forum alone; the Rozenna is quite soft! Don't send the good squad on me but I expected the response to the Rozenna rubbers (which I had my eye on last year) to be more 'Hype' than it actually was but if you do put it on your BH I would really like to know how it plays so if you could post a review, even a short and concise one, that would be really helpful! In terms of blade, what are you currently using?

panany
09-15-2017, 01:53 PM
i get 1 w968 from 1 friend in national team :)

if u have other questions u can ask =)

MaLongSenpai
09-15-2017, 02:06 PM
i get 1 w968 from 1 friend in national team :)

Have you ever played with a Long V? I am very aware of the theoretical differences between the blades in terms of size and weight as well as the way in which they are produced and the Quality Control on the W968 but I would love to hear first hand if there is a significant difference between a $175 blade vs a $500 blade (I can't find one for cheaper than that but if that price is incorrect then please correct it, as I don't really know the average retail).

panany
09-15-2017, 02:21 PM
yes my friend in my club have long V with h3 then i can see difference .... w968 is more power more fast, more good feeling .. i feel ball better ... and too big difference is with w968 large sweet pot.... :)


and i will say sometheing here i say for all my friend ..... is just MY think ... but : for me ... is better buy blade 500$ u can use 3 years and play with h3 prov ....

than play with long 5 175$ and play with h3 national ;)


7 or 8 years ago 1 chinese ( was national team ) was in my club and he uses rubber h3 prov ... i ask him u dont play with national... and he says u know prov is already so good for me for play in france ... blade is more important and for rubber like h3 more important is oil ... ifu have good oil and u good glued .. this is already so good ....

same for 1 girl play in my club she was very very very strong too ( she was 8 french ranking ... ) she only use h3 prov too :)

MaLongSenpai
09-15-2017, 02:26 PM
yes my friend in my club have long V with h3 then i can see difference .... w968 is more power more fast, more good feeling .. i feel ball better ... and too big difference is with w968 large sweet pot.... :)
Since they have reduced the dimensions of the blade and increased the Quality Control, apparently the Long V has gotten a bit better but it's very interesting to hear the differences firsthand! I would like to play with one myself at some point (Highly unlikely given I am in the UK) as my personal view is that the difference simply can't warrant the price (but this can be proven by actually playing with one and feeling the difference, which I have not done yet :'( ) *unless* your skill level (which in this case is considerably higher than mine) warrants it as the "skill-cap" so-to-speak, is enormous given that the W968 is a professional grade blade!

MaLongSenpai
09-15-2017, 02:29 PM
yes my friend in my club have long V with h3 then i can see difference .... w968 is more power more fast, more good feeling .. i feel ball better ... and too big difference is with w968 large sweet pot.... :)


and i will say sometheing here i say for all my friend ..... is just MY think ... but : for me ... is better buy blade 500$ u can use 3 years and play with h3 prov ....

than play with long 5 175$ and play with h3 national ;)


7 or 8 years ago 1 chinese ( was national team ) was in my club and he uses rubber h3 prov ... i ask him u dont play with national... and he says u know prov is already so good for me for play in france ... blade is more important and for rubber like h3 more important is oil ... ifu have good oil and u good glued .. this is already so good ....

same for 1 girl play in my club she was very very very strong too ( she was 8 french ranking ... ) she only use h3 prov too :)

I would also be very very interested in knowing whether or not, at the provincial level in China, the Long V is used (NOT the w968) as I imagine it's quite hard to get a hold of one in China and so, I assume that a lot of provincial players would use the Long 5 but if there's someone to confirm or deny this it's either Chen Chen, Giangt or you! Perhaps everyone uses a Viscaria unless they can get a W968 but the Long V is certainly on the level of Butterfly in terms of performance (but not QC or finish, and that is most certainly a fact).

panany
09-15-2017, 02:41 PM
I don t know lot of' player of province I know more in national team ...

But few player prov I know use w968 ...

And u know for Viscaria, zjk don't use spécial Viscaria... just he gets by example 50 blade and he choose, weight, sound ....

That's what I heard

UpSideDownCarl
09-15-2017, 03:51 PM
Good info by panany. The way the pros often choose blades is by having the company give them many. And them choosing the ones that feel the best for main and backup blades.

A few more pieces of info:

1) larger head gives more pace and better feel but the downside is the heavier head, especially with the added amount of rubber.

2) beware of the EJ virus. [emoji2]

I think the EJ virus has much more to do with what is leading this thread in random directions than anything else. [emoji2]


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

iamjason8
09-15-2017, 11:59 PM
Me I do : 1 layer white glue ( but need big white glue like nittaku ) and 3 or 4 layer haifu , and 1 very little layer white glue ... and is good...

I play with h3 neo orange too ( I can't play with blue because if blue , after 2 week rubber dead because bubble on top sheet )

Thank you for sharing information and videos of you playing. You're very good.

I currently use Hurricane 3 Neo 39 degrees provincial (orange sponge) and want to boost it. I have played H3 for a long time but only now am thinking about boosting. On an earlier post I saw SFF_lib say only put one layer when boosting 39 degrees for fear of it getting too soft. I was wondering what your thoughts were on this as well as anyone else who has this kind of experience. Reason I ask is because 2-3 layers is recommended so is one even worthwhile?

I only play at a club level so I don't play at a very high level or need it to be super fast, I just want the rubber to be livelier. The blade I use is Carbonado 145.

I'm also wondering what glue I should be using when boosting? I have Nittaku Finezip (thick) and Haifu Water Solubility Bond (thin). The booster I plan to use is Falco Temp Long.

Thanks!

panany
09-16-2017, 07:27 AM
I think better if u use nittaku white glue ... after me I already say I think better if u use lidu kailin or haifu...

But if u have on flb try with it ^^

iamjason8
09-17-2017, 01:05 AM
Can anyone tell me how many grams (approx.) each layer of boosting adds?

Chen Chen
09-18-2017, 03:43 PM
I don't think so, I am pretty confident that I am boosting it correctly and I am very careful with where I put the booster towards the edge of the rubber but then again, i doubt you have ever used Falco long Term booster on a National blue sponge so you might not have encountered the same problem I have. It's still a great rubber though!


Unfortunately I have used the falco before and a couple of time I even mixed falco with haifu oil together at the early time. I haven't tried the kailin oil yet. I guess all the booster are the same, the key point is the glue. How many layers of glue do you put between rubber and blade on FH? Which brand? May I ask? Chinese sponge is different from the western one. Western rubbers - you only need to put two layers between rubber and blade. You can imagine if you brush or hit something on hard surface, it will have higher chance to get broken than the softer one. By the way, the hardest orange sponge is 40 degree and some blue sponge with player's name stamp is 42.5 degree. Blue sponge is harder than orange one at the same degree and less flexible. Plus you already made the sponge expand after you put the oil on. Hope you can get what I am trying to say.

yuri.saldon
09-19-2017, 02:01 AM
OMG hurricane 3 NEO with haifu seamoon is simple the best thing I've ever used.

I've try my friend bat and it was amazing. How could be that good?

It was faster than my mx-p but have more control, it's easy to do spinny loops, or fast loops or anything it's just unbelievable.


Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

SFF_lib
09-19-2017, 06:42 AM
OMG hurricane 3 NEO with haifu seamoon is simple the best thing I've ever used.

I've try my friend bat and it was amazing. How could be that good?

It was faster than my mx-p but have more control, it's easy to do spinny loops, or fast loops or anything it's just unbelievable.


Sent from my 2014819 using TapatalkA H3 properly boosted plays like dream. Equal to if not better than Tenergy. You can go slow spinny or fast and powerful.

Any shot and serve is possible with H3. That's why it's been in the market for at least 13yrs.

Passionate about TT

Suga D
09-19-2017, 07:13 AM
Okay. I think I am going to talk about the reason for bubbles and what is actually happening. :) Hopefully this helps you guys understand why there are a couple of factors that can cause bubbling. And how a higher level player may get more bubbling than a lower level player. And also how, boosting can effect bubbling.

So, when they make a sheet of rubber like, say, H3, MXP or any other rubber, the topsheet has to be glued onto the sponge. That is how the topsheet is attached to the sponge. The glue they use to attach the topsheet to the sponge is important. It is similar to the glues we use to attach the sponge to the racket. The factory may use VOC glues to attach the topsheet to the sponge, but it is still a similar kind of glue with a similar kind of bonding. Which also means similar solvents will work on this glue if you wanted to separate the topsheet from the sponge.

Now before we go into boosters, we can talk about bubbles without the need of talking about boosters. One of two things can happen when you get a bubble. If you hit the ball so hard that you break a pimple, or a couple of pimples, you will get a bubble. If you hit the ball so hard that you separate a pimple from the sponge, you will also get a bubble.

A high level player like panany could get bubbles just from how hard he swing on his opening loop. Look at how much spin and arc he gets on some of those opening loops. He is a decently high level player who plays with a lot of impact. If you add the booster into the equation, I imagine that it is quite easy for him to get bubbles or maybe quite hard for him to not get bubbles.

Also, since he is playing at quite a high level, his experience with bubbles may be different than other players who do not get as much force into their impact. So, some of the discussion may be like people talking about two different things and thinking they are talking about the same thing. :)

Now, lets add details about these boosters. The oils in the boosters all would function well as solvents for the glues we use to glue our rubber to our blade. If you ever felt you were having trouble getting your rubber off of your blade you could put some of that booster (whichever kind) or even mineral oil, onto the area of the sponge that was sticking and, if you waited a few minutes for the oil to sink in, it would soften the glue and help undo the bond.

If you wanted to separate the topsheet from a sponge, applying the booster to the area where the pimples attach to the sponge, and were patient, you would be able to remove the topsheet from the sponge by softening the bonds that attach each separate pimple to the sponge.

When you boost you add the booster oil to the sponge side. But, like a household sponge, the sponge on your rubber will absorb certain things. If you took a household sponge and put it on top of a small spill of water, it would absorb the water. The porous nature of a sponge is designed to do that. If you used the sponge on some oil, it would take longer, but it would absorb it too. With water or oil, that household sponge would expand. With the sponge on your rubber, water or oil will cause it to expand too. Only, water would not give you good playing characteristics because the water would fill the bubbles and it would also damage the wood. But you can test it on an old piece of rubber. If you spread water on the sponge, it will sink in and the sponge will expand. Then when the water evaporated, the sponge would return to its original size.

So, you put the booster on the sponge, and the oil sinks into the sponge and that causes the sponge to expand. Now some booster will get to the side of the sponge where the pimples are. So the glue bond between the pimple and sponge will be a little weaker for a time. If as the oil evaporates, the bond strengthens enough, you may not get bubbles. If you don't use quite as much booster, you may not get as much bubbles. If there is a little glue on the sponge to absorb some of the booster and make the booster take a little longer to get to the sponge, it may make it less likely for you to get bubbles. But if you use a lot of booster and you have good technique and brush hard with deep impact, that will make it much more likely that you separate pimples from sponge and end up with bubbles. Whereas, if you hit hard, but your contact is less tangential and more direct, that will not put as much stress on the bond between the pimples and the sponge.

So, lower level technique will be less likely to cause bubbles than the technique of a higher level player.

However, as far as I am concerned, a process that takes a whole week, like boosting, before you can put your rubber onto your racket is too fussy for me. So I stopped using H3 years ago and use whatever tensor or tenergy like rubber is on my racket at the moment. :)

Anyway, I hope this information helps you guys understand why a guy like panany has such a different experience with Blue Sponge Bubbling than most of the forum members.

Now I am going to go back and watch few more of panany's opening loops because they are a thing of beauty. :)

Though i would agree on some of your points, i don't agree on all.

I'm not saying that I'm better than him, but I know a few players that can rip the ball as hard if not harder than him and after having checked back none of them has said so.

In fact, yeah, it can get bubbles, but not as soon, as often and as much as Nicolas said. He's either being exaggerating and not meaning it literally, or if it is really true he's using way too much booster.


A H3 properly boosted plays like dream. Equal to if not better than Tenergy. You can go slow spinny or fast and powerful.

Any shot and serve is possible with H3. That's why it's been in the market for at least 13yrs.

Passionate about TT

Han Ying even uses hers mostly for chopping.
[Emoji15]

SFF_lib
09-19-2017, 07:26 AM
Han Ying even uses hers mostly for chopping.
[Emoji15]A guy in my club chops with H3 on both sides.[emoji54]
But not sure about sponge hardness

Passionate about TT

Chen Chen
09-19-2017, 01:03 PM
OMG hurricane 3 NEO with haifu seamoon is simple the best thing I've ever used.

I've try my friend bat and it was amazing. How could be that good?

It was faster than my mx-p but have more control, it's easy to do spinny loops, or fast loops or anything it's just unbelievable.


Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk


Maybe tacky top sheet + boosted sponge are the future of TABLE TENNIS. Enough power with great control.

MasterMyself
09-19-2017, 01:28 PM
Maybe tacky top sheet + boosted sponge are the future of TABLE TENNIS. Enough power with great control.

Still... not many non-asian players use tacky rubbers, too much effort to learn and play with them. I am glad that I stick to them initially and force myself to learn the proper techniques and it pays off now.

ajtatosmano2
09-19-2017, 03:18 PM
Still... not many non-asian players use tacky rubbers

It's because of the coaches. In Europe the coaches give euro-style rubbers for the kids. They haven't trained with tacky rubbers, so they don't teach using it (it makes sense though). I've heard multiple times, that chinese-style rubbers need more power and european players don't have enough power! The same for multiball: you can see that in chinese multiball videos the players go through 30-50 ball before stopping. An instructor on a coaches' vocational training said that 'you can't do that with european players.'
Endurance training should be taken more seriously. Kids might do physical training at home just like school homework.

yuri.saldon
09-19-2017, 04:10 PM
Yesterday when I tested h3neo boosted with less effort was generating more speed and spin different to the general concept that requires a large stroke and more power. Include when I was late it was easier to put the ball on the table. It as definitely faster compared to my racket.

I'm using BO2 with mx-p, h3 neo was in ovctharov true carbon.

Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

ajtatosmano2
09-19-2017, 04:35 PM
Yesterday when I tested h3neo boosted with less effort was generating more speed and spin different to the general concept that requires a large stroke and more power. Include when I was late it was easier to put the ball on the table. It as definitely faster compared to my racket.

I'm using BO2 with mx-p, h3 neo was in ovctharov true carbon.

Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

And you boost MX-P or Tenergy? They are much better with booster: faster, spinnier.
You don't have to play with large strokes to be fairly effective with a boosted H3. But if you do, you will get even better spin and speed.
And even a boosted H3 only faster on loops, not on passive or weaker shots.

kuko61
09-19-2017, 05:41 PM
I have two questions about the boost effect duration.


1. How long keep the boosted rubber boost effect, when I play with it, and how long, when I do not play with it? Is there a difference? If the boost effect disappears sooner on a frequently used blade, how much sooner?


2. When I have boosted rubber, but I do not have a free blade for gluing, can I "archive" the rubber in such a way that the boost effect remains as long as possible?
I was thinking to use vacuum sealer. Should it make sense?

Thank you

ajtatosmano2
09-19-2017, 06:58 PM
I have two questions about the boost effect duration.


1. How long keep the boosted rubber boost effect, when I play with it, and how long, when I do not play with it? If the boost effect disappears sooner on a frequently used racket, how much sooner?


2. When I have boosted rubber, but I do not have a free blade for gluing, can I "archive" the rubber in such a way that the boost effect remains as long as possible?
I was thinking to use vacuum sealer. Should it make sense?

Thank you

I believe a vacuum sealer should do the work. Factory boosted rubbers often come in vacuum package, so...

SFF_lib
09-19-2017, 09:14 PM
It's because of the coaches. In Europe the coaches give euro-style rubbers for the kids. They haven't trained with tacky rubbers, so they don't teach using it (it makes sense though). I've heard multiple times, that chinese-style rubbers need more power and european players don't have enough power! The same for multiball: you can see that in chinese multiball videos the players go through 30-50 ball before stopping. An instructor on a coaches' vocational training said that 'you can't do that with european players.'
Endurance training should be taken more seriously. Kids might do physical training at home just like school homework.European kids are way stronger than Asian kids. They would have no problem playing tacky rubber if it is popular in Europe.

But yeah like you said coaches are familiar with non tacky rubber.

Passionate about TT

ajtatosmano2
09-19-2017, 09:29 PM
European kids are way stronger than Asian kids. They would have no problem playing tacky rubber if it is popular in Europe.

But yeah like you said coaches are familiar with non tacky rubber.

Passionate about TT

It's more about endurance than strength, but you're right. Insanity to say 'you can't do this with an european player'!
Asians aren't born with such endurance, they train. And physical training can be done anywhere and can be done smart, so it won't take too much time. Just matter of persistence and will.

Suga D
09-19-2017, 11:18 PM
of persistence and will.
14256

MaLongSenpai
09-21-2017, 02:38 PM
Unfortunately I have used the falco before and a couple of time I even mixed falco with haifu oil together at the early time. I haven't tried the kailin oil yet. I guess all the booster are the same, the key point is the glue. How many layers of glue do you put between rubber and blade on FH? Which brand? May I ask? Chinese sponge is different from the western one. Western rubbers - you only need to put two layers between rubber and blade. You can imagine if you brush or hit something on hard surface, it will have higher chance to get broken than the softer one. By the way, the hardest orange sponge is 40 degree and some blue sponge with player's name stamp is 42.5 degree. Blue sponge is harder than orange one at the same degree and less flexible. Plus you already made the sponge expand after you put the oil on. Hope you can get what I am trying to say.

Thankfully the bubbles subsided and the rubber is playing well. I quite like Falco but I do intend to switch to (probably Kailin) or Dianchi, but most likely Kailin to be honest. Depending on the amount of booster I have used. On the most recent occasion, I used 2 layers of Nittaku FineZip on the FH rubber and 1 / 2 layers on the blade itself. 42.5 degree must be insane! I would love to try a heavily boosted 41 degree plus rubber on a Long 5 but there wouldn't be a point in spending so much on it as I wouldn't use it often. And yes, thank you for the post it was helpful and I did indeed understand what you were trying to say.

Mumon
09-21-2017, 05:19 PM
@suga @carl

why do we wait untill the rubber has flattened out again after bending before glueing it to the blade? dont we want the rubber with the extended sponge on it? thats the only part about boosting i still dont understand.

peace!

UpSideDownCarl
09-21-2017, 05:54 PM
@suga @carl

why do we wait untill the rubber has flattened out again after bending before glueing it to the blade? dont we want the rubber with the extended sponge on it? thats the only part about boosting i still dont understand.

peace!

I have to be honest with you. I am not sure I am a good resource for techniques for boosting.

I have not boosted in years. Part of the reason I stopped using H3 years ago is that I did not want to bother with the hassle of boosting.

But when I used to boost, I would use the old glue with the VOCs and I would boost with a cocktail of oils, a mix of VOC and non VOC oils.

I would glue first. Then I would add the boost. And I would try to attach the rubber to the blade before the rubber had fully curled.

Sometimes it worked really well. Sometimes the rubber would keep coming up and ungluing for a few days. A few times I was forced to pull the rubber off and wait till some of the booster had evaporated before I could glue properly.

But in my head, I wanted the rubber on the blade while as much of the oils as possible were still in the rubber.

I am not sure I was correct. And the booster oils they have now may be better than what I was doing. But most of the time, what I did worked and the effect lasted for about a month before I needed to reboost.

I know someone who boosts with Haifu Oil who just puts the layers he wants on and then puts the rubber on as soon after as he can. He feels it works. But it might be worth comparing the feel of the rubber after each technique.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

ajtatosmano2
09-21-2017, 05:59 PM
14256

Yeah, I've used that word intentionally :)

Mumon
09-21-2017, 06:08 PM
I have to be honest with you. I am not sure I am a good resource for techniques for boosting.

I have not boosted in years. Part of the reason I stopped using H3 years ago is that I did not want to bother with the hassle of boosting.

But when I used to boost, I would use the old glue with the VOCs and I would boost with a cocktail of oils, a mix of VOC and non VOC oils.

I would glue first. Then I would add the boost. And I would try to attach the rubber to the blade before the rubber had fully curled.

Sometimes it worked really well. Sometimes the rubber would keep coming up and ungluing for a few days. A few times I was forced to pull the rubber off and wait till some of the booster had evaporated before I could glue properly.

But in my head, I wanted the rubber on the blade while as much of the oils as possible were still in the rubber.

I am not sure I was correct. And the booster oils they have now may be better than what I was doing. But most of the time, what I did worked and the effect lasted for about a month before I needed to reboost.

I know someone who boosts with Haifu Oil who just puts the layers he wants on and then puts the rubber on as soon after as he can. He feels it works. But it might be worth comparing the feel of the rubber after each technique.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
now im confused since every source told me to wait till it flattens. I need answers!! I call upon thee CNT!!

maybe chen chen can tell me

UpSideDownCarl
09-21-2017, 06:28 PM
now im confused since every source told me to wait till it flattens. I need answers!! I call upon thee CNT!!

maybe chen chen can tell me

Yep. Every source I've seen describes a process that takes days.

But remember, when I was boosting, I was not bothering with WB glue. And I was not using stuff that was VOC free. So what I did has little to do with what most people on the site do.

All of which adds up to my statement about me not being a good source for methods of boosting.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

yuri.saldon
09-21-2017, 06:48 PM
I think the reason to waits to flatten it's to be easier to glue.

I've never boosted hurricane 3 or used TT booster but my experience with mineral oil and European rubber showed that was near to impossible keep a very curled rubber in the blade.

Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

Mumon
09-21-2017, 06:55 PM
I think the reason to waits to flatten it's to be easier to glue.

I've never boosted hurricane 3 or used TT booster but my experience with mineral oil and European rubber showed that was near to impossible keep a very curled rubber in the blade.

Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk that seems unlikely since i once glued a rubber to my blade which I had boosted into the form of a roll...and it stuck without problems

yuri.saldon
09-21-2017, 06:59 PM
Maybe it's my bad gluing technique. But I've been take care to not over curled my rubbers.

Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

ajtatosmano2
09-21-2017, 08:27 PM
that seems unlikely since i once glued a rubber to my blade which I had boosted into the form of a roll...and it stuck without problems

Then you used a strong glue. I can't glue rubbers curled into a half roll. But I use Revolution No.3, which isn't a strong glue.

So, the rubber should have a slight dome. When you think that it will stuck on blade, try to glue it. If gluing doesn't go well, wait more and use another layer.

OhWell
09-21-2017, 08:35 PM
I think the reason to waits to flatten it's to be easier to glue.


Besides being easier to glue, AFAIK letting the rubber flatten lowers the chances of damaging the rubber, and increases the rubber's longevity.

As for why that is, this blog post is helpful (boosters are discussed towards the end, but the whole thing helps understand what's happening): https://thoughtsontabletennis.wordpress.com/2015/03/09/introduction-to-table-tennis-chemistry/

ajtatosmano2
09-21-2017, 08:37 PM
And if you overboosted the rubber and it doesn't want to flatten, apply a little baby oil or paraffine oil on the topsheet. A few droplet is enough. This isn't recommended as it softens the topsheet, but still better than an unusable rubber. It can be used as a rubber revitalizing technique, because it gives more grip to the rubber, but after the effect wears out (time differs from rubber to rubber, but max. 1 month) the throw angle will decrease a little or more, depending on the topsheet's softness and the amount of oil you used. It's good when you ordered a new sheet, but there is still a few sessions till the replacement arrives.

OhWell
09-21-2017, 08:41 PM
Then you used a strong glue. I can't glue rubbers curled into a half roll. But I use Revolution No.3, which isn't a strong glue.

So, the rubber should have a slight dome. When you think that it will stuck on blade, try to glue it. If gluing doesn't go well, wait more and use another layer.

Which viscosity of revo 3 do you use for the boosted rubbers?

I must admit, Revo no 3 is so not strong that it won't let me glue a boosted neo with a slight dome because my current apartment is too humid! :D (Which is a helpful clue: I do need to move out... Who knew a TT glue could reveal that? It may not be the stickiest adhesive, but revo no 3 has quite a few secret powers.)

ajtatosmano2
09-21-2017, 09:07 PM
Which viscosity of revo 3 do you use for the boosted rubbers?

I must admit, Revo no 3 is so not strong that it won't let me glue a boosted neo with a slight dome because my current apartment is too humid! :D (Which is a helpful clue: I do need to move out... Who knew a TT glue could reveal that? It may not be the stickiest adhesive, but revo no 3 has quite a few secret powers.)

I use normal viscosity.
I think you should press the rubber for a few hours, preferably over night. And you might use a hair drier to be sure the glue is dry. And you also might want to apply one more thin layer over that you normally use, to make sure it's enough.

OhWell
09-21-2017, 09:34 PM
I use normal viscosity.
I think you should press the rubber for a few hours, preferably over night. And you might use a hair drier to be sure the glue is dry. And you also might want to apply one more thin layer over that you normally use, to make sure it's enough.

Normal, nice! I've only tried the normal and high. The normal really seems to have an edge over the high viscosity in terms of settling to a really flat layer upon drying.


You mean press after gluing or just to get the dome to lower? I haven't tried pressing the rubber after putting the final layers of glue.. (I have done the pressing to make it lower + using a hair drier + trying more and less glue (did the whole operation 5+ times, wasted insane amounts of glue..)

What eventually worked (go figure) is putting another thin layer of falco over the final layers of glue. For some reason, despite the 65-70% humidity, the falco increases the adhesiveness of the glue up to workable levels. I'll be moving at the end of the month, though, so the revo 3 should become useable on its own again! :)

panany
09-21-2017, 11:12 PM
i use nittaku finezip i always glue quick after rubber not thights and never problem... :)

shinshiro
09-22-2017, 04:16 AM
About revolution nº 3 glue: what is the difference between normal viscosity and medium viscosity? Which one is thicker? It may be a dumb question or language barrier, but they sounds the same to me.

UpSideDownCarl
09-22-2017, 08:40 AM
Though i would agree on some of your points, i don't agree on all.

I'm not saying that I'm better than him, but I know a few players that can rip the ball as hard if not harder than him and after having checked back none of them has said so.

In fact, yeah, it can get bubbles, but not as soon, as often and as much as Nicolas said. He's either being exaggerating and not meaning it literally, or if it is really true he's using way too much booster.

:) I agree on all of this. :)

Especially: "or if it is really true he's using way too much booster." :)

panany
09-22-2017, 08:55 AM
:) I agree on all of this. :)

Especially: "or if it is really true he's using way too much booster." :)

no i dont use too much booster .... i use normal ... just blue are very easy broke ....

omg not only me say .... all my friend chinese more strong than me say .... often h3 blue 3 days and dead because bubble !!!!!!!


Them too dont know how boost ?????????

For me need 2 or 3 weeks depends how many time i training...

panany
09-22-2017, 09:58 AM
14266because lot of people dont trust me i have ask 1 friend chinese ... good player ... rally more good than me... now h just play for fun, and somes tournement in china ... but he can bat somes player play in 2nd level in china .... thats not bad haha

i have ask him about h3 neo blue sponge and i save this conversation for let u see;..


for your information his best victory was vs cheng jingqi ( player from national team chinese, he plays super league and national game chinese )
my friend can beat him but he dont know how use booster him too??? mmmmm ^^

Chen Chen
09-24-2017, 02:53 PM
Thankfully the bubbles subsided and the rubber is playing well. I quite like Falco but I do intend to switch to (probably Kailin) or Dianchi, but most likely Kailin to be honest. Depending on the amount of booster I have used. On the most recent occasion, I used 2 layers of Nittaku FineZip on the FH rubber and 1 / 2 layers on the blade itself. 42.5 degree must be insane! I would love to try a heavily boosted 41 degree plus rubber on a Long 5 but there wouldn't be a point in spending so much on it as I wouldn't use it often. And yes, thank you for the post it was helpful and I did indeed understand what you were trying to say.

Kailin will be a good choice probably. Maybe you can put one layer of glue on the blade and three layers on the sponge? Try to put as thin as you can. I tried them before.There is no problem to hit rubber through. I played with 42 degree blue sponge on viscaria for a while, the power and speed is insane. My level is too low, can't control it at all. But I am training hard at the moment. :D

Chen Chen
09-24-2017, 03:04 PM
now im confused since every source told me to wait till it flattens. I need answers!! I call upon thee CNT!!

maybe chen chen can tell me


I don't wait the rubber become flat. Once the oil is dry, I put the rubber straight on the blade. Keep the rubber as fresh as you can before you play. Maybe you have seen this before, Chinese players give pressure on bat by hands on the table before they start to play. And the edge of the rubber is still curved. :)

ajtatosmano2
09-24-2017, 03:49 PM
Normal, nice! I've only tried the normal and high. The normal really seems to have an edge over the high viscosity in terms of settling to a really flat layer upon drying.


You mean press after gluing or just to get the dome to lower? I haven't tried pressing the rubber after putting the final layers of glue.. (I have done the pressing to make it lower + using a hair drier + trying more and less glue (did the whole operation 5+ times, wasted insane amounts of glue..)

What eventually worked (go figure) is putting another thin layer of falco over the final layers of glue. For some reason, despite the 65-70% humidity, the falco increases the adhesiveness of the glue up to workable levels. I'll be moving at the end of the month, though, so the revo 3 should become useable on its own again! :)

I meant pressing after glueing.

I have a theory: you let the glue dry properly, but the dried layer gets humid and it weakens. After drying the water doesn't mix with the glue. So after you have a dried layer apply one more thin layer of glue and attach the sheet immediately, and press it evenly for a few hours.

ajtatosmano2
09-24-2017, 03:54 PM
About revolution nº 3 glue: what is the difference between normal viscosity and medium viscosity? Which one is thicker? It may be a dumb question or language barrier, but they sounds the same to me.

The normal should be lower viscosity than the medium, because they are in that order on the bottle. It's strange for me too...

Mumon
09-25-2017, 04:34 AM
I don't wait the rubber become flat. Once the oil is dry, I put the rubber straight on the blade. Keep the rubber as fresh as you can before you play. Maybe you have seen this before, Chinese players give pressure on bat by hands on the table before they start to play. And the edge of the rubber is still curved. :)
Perfect! thanks for the answer! now i know ive been doing it correctly

peace!

ttdgfg
09-25-2017, 06:22 AM
I don't wait the rubber become flat. Once the oil is dry, I put the rubber straight on the blade. Keep the rubber as fresh as you can before you play. Maybe you have seen this before, Chinese players give pressure on bat by hands on the table before they start to play. And the edge of the rubber is still curved. :)

Well what effect has to press at that moment? if the rubber did stick to the blade there would be no need for it.
If after the gluing the rubber comes of at the edge of the blade, even if you press on it will not magically stick back, since the wbg will be on the rubber side only. Thats from my experience.

Chen Chen
09-25-2017, 10:30 AM
Well what effect has to press at that moment? if the rubber did stick to the blade there would be no need for it.
If after the gluing the rubber comes of at the edge of the blade, even if you press on it will not magically stick back, since the wbg will be on the rubber side only. Thats from my experience.


Players make their rubbers before the match and they do like half hour to warm up, for both rubbers and themselves. they don't have time to let the rubber settle a bit though.

what I do is that I put some heavy books on top of the bat after I glue the rubber on for a couple of hours. Books are always useful! Hope this will help. :)1428014281

Chen Chen
09-25-2017, 10:30 AM
Perfect! thanks for the answer! now i know ive been doing it correctly

peace!

Glad that I can help.

ttdgfg
09-25-2017, 10:33 AM
Glad that I can help.

what glue do you use chen chen. and how many layers on blade and rubber?
Thank you.

Chen Chen
09-25-2017, 11:12 AM
what glue do you use chen chen. and how many layers on blade and rubber?
Thank you.

No worries. Nittaku fine zip. For hurricane 3 neo I put two layers of glue, sometimes three layers. because there are pre made layer on the sponge already. On blade, I put one or two layers of glue. Quite thin layers of glue I would say.

MohdHafiz
09-25-2017, 12:25 PM
What is the favourite thickness of hurricane rubber to be boost?
2.1/2.15/2.2

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panany
09-25-2017, 02:30 PM
What is the favourite thickness of hurricane rubber to be boost?
2.1/2.15/2.2

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

if neo u cant get 2.2, 2.2 is only h3

me i dont see difference if 2.1 or 2.15

panany
09-25-2017, 02:32 PM
Players make their rubbers before the match and they do like half hour to warm up, for both rubbers and themselves. they don't have time to let the rubber settle a bit though.

what I do is that I put some heavy books on top of the bat after I glue the rubber on for a couple of hours. Books are always useful! Hope this will help. :)1428014281



if i can give u advice.... if u cut rubber direct after glued on blade ... u dont need let your rubber enter lot of books...

if u dont cut ... hard for rubber glued... but if cut... rubber always glued :)

ajtatosmano2
09-25-2017, 06:00 PM
2.15 Hurricane doesn't go over 4mm after boosting? I never measured it and now I use EL-S on FH (not for long, I will go back to H3...again).

RidTheKid
01-30-2018, 05:02 PM
I'm trying to boost for the first time and I've opened the vacuum and removed the white protective film from the sponge. On the sponge is another clear layer, is this the factory tuning and do I boost on top of it or remove this clear layer? I tried to remove it from one of the blue sponges but I gave up since only a corner was easy to remove so I gave up.

zeio
01-30-2018, 05:34 PM
DHS calls that layer the primer. No one really knows for sure what they have done to it at the factory. Some speculate it is just glue. Some say it is boosted glue. Some say it is there to protect the sponge, and/or the bond b/w sponge and topsheet. Whatever the case, leave it on. Put a layer or two of booster over it.

RidTheKid
01-30-2018, 06:46 PM
Thanks a lot for your reply.


DHS calls that layer the primer. No one really knows for sure what they have done to it at the factory. Some speculate it is just glue. Some say it is boosted glue. Some say it is there to protect the sponge, and/or the bond b/w sponge and topsheet. Whatever the case, leave it on. Put a layer or two of booster over it.

Astorix
01-30-2018, 09:32 PM
I recommend the Sandwich boosting method.
It is explained by prott.vip
you can find it, if you go to the side and scroll down. On the left there should be an icon called experience sharing.
the method is Sth called like "how the CNT retune factory tuned rubbers" or similar but there is also more interesting information.

try it out

http://www.prott.vip/Product-Details.aspx?productcode=4

G_ZHANG
01-30-2018, 10:56 PM
I'm trying to boost for the first time and I've opened the vacuum and removed the white protective film from the sponge. On the sponge is another clear layer, is this the factory tuning and do I boost on top of it or remove this clear layer? I tried to remove it from one of the blue sponges but I gave up since only a corner was easy to remove so I gave up.


That's just normal glue to as the foundation.

You can just directly apply oil on that, or you can put 1-2 layer of glue first then 2 layers of oil .

Normally, when I open a new neo, I will just put 1 layer of glue (plus the factory one it will be 2 layers) and 2 layers of oil.


You can put oil directly to the factory glue. It increases the boosting effect. but in turn, it kills the sponge quicker.

RidTheKid
01-31-2018, 05:33 AM
Thanks! But the "fishy" smell is terrible though :) I'm boosting 4 rubbers at the same time, maybe that enhances the smell somewhat :D


That's just normal glue to as the foundation.

You can just directly apply oil on that, or you can put 1-2 layer of glue first then 2 layers of oil .

Normally, when I open a new neo, I will just put 1 layer of glue (plus the factory one it will be 2 layers) and 2 layers of oil.


You can put oil directly to the factory glue. It increases the boosting effect. but in turn, it kills the sponge quicker.

G_ZHANG
01-31-2018, 09:33 AM
Thanks! But the "fishy" smell is terrible though :) I'm boosting 4 rubbers at the same time, maybe that enhances the smell somewhat :D

Yea that smell is typical hurricane. Even you buy the non-neo version (like the white paper national), it still has the smell. The smell is not from neo-boosting.

iamjason8
02-06-2018, 08:17 AM
Is there still some sort of break-in period when you boost Hurricane?

Recently boosted a new sheet and clearing the net isn't as easy as before. Or maybe it's because the previous one was 39 and new one is 40..

Boosted with 2 layers of Falco Temp Long.

Thanks

qvoliszz
02-06-2018, 08:38 AM
Yes there is a little break in period. But when you boost, you simply shorten it to several hours of playing (4-6 hours).

G_ZHANG
02-06-2018, 09:26 AM
Is there still some sort of break-in period when you boost Hurricane?

Recently boosted a new sheet and clearing the net isn't as easy as before. Or maybe it's because the previous one was 39 and new one is 40..

Boosted with 2 layers of Falco Temp Long.

Thanks

I think it is more because of 40 degree.

MohdHafiz
02-06-2018, 02:00 PM
I think it is more because of 40 degree.I think he needs more brush and forward stroke..

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berndtjgmann
02-06-2018, 08:48 PM
Wa! Ai=ya! Jen bu shi dongxi a! Sonuvaseacook! Hot mercy Martha! 151 posts on boosting your Hurricane! Even a video in English on how to do it!

Fascin-a-freakin'-ating!

So what happens if you don't boost your Hurricane? Zombie apocalypse?

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't boosting any rubber with a boosting oil kinda well sorta maybe um er ahem just a little bit illegal according to ITTF rules, even though boosting with a boosting oil can't presently be detected?

New and improved giant economy sized ponging through chemistry? Damn straight.


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Ilia Minkin
02-06-2018, 09:14 PM
Wa! Ai=ya! Jen bu shi dongxi a! Sonuvaseacook! Hot mercy Martha! 151 posts on boosting your Hurricane! Even a video in English on how to do it!

Fascin-a-freakin'-ating!

So what happens if you don't boost your Hurricane? Zombie apocalypse?

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't boosting any rubber with a boosting oil kinda well sorta maybe um er ahem just a little bit illegal according to ITTF rules, even though boosting with a boosting oil can't presently be detected?

New and improved giant economy sized ponging through chemistry? Damn straight.


Sent from my eight and one-half year old horseless carriage of a Compaq CO60 laptop using a real slow Internet connection

Some people even speedglue their rubbers!

berndtjgmann
02-06-2018, 10:04 PM
(Ilia Minkin) Some people even speedglue their rubbers!

(bjgmann) Khorosho, ya budu proklyat! (Well I'll be damned!)