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TableTennisDaily
11-07-2017, 02:42 PM
We have had many discussions about the new world ranking system coming in place, the ITTF have released their official statement today!

The new world ranking system will completely change things. Take Timo Boll, in March this year he was ranked 12, with this new system he would have been ranked world number 54!

According to the ITTF the newly developed World Ranking system will be coming in place to present a more accurate measure and realitistic situation of the current playing level, and to ensure the World Ranking better supports ITTF events. The new system will come in effect from 1st January 2018!


If the new system was in place right now this would be some of the players World Ranking:

If the new World Ranking system was in place this month (November 2017) these would be the notable changes on the ranking list.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/images/oldsystemtopic.jpg


Video below by the iTTF:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrQd_XokZPQ

The ITTF express, "We believe that a high level of competition and sports presentation, assured by the constant participation of its top players at events, will maximize exposure and promotion through TV, social media and traditional media."


Basic principles of the New Ranking System (Taken directly from ITTF.com:

- The new ranking is based on the final positions reached at the tournaments only (regardless the relative strength of the opponent player).
- Only bonus points are awarded (no rating points are given), which are valid for 12 months, except the World Championships.
- NO loss of points in case of losing a match.
- Ranking Points are fixed according to the point tables using different weightings for different types of events.
- Only the best 8 results are considered on a yearly basis (with one continental event included).
- Separated ranking lists for each age category (Senior, U-21, Junior, Cadet), taking into consideration only results in the respective category.
- Special seeding in case of injury and pregnancy


The new system is expected to keep high level players active. Take Timo Boll for example in the graphic below, in March he would have been ranked 54 if the new World Ranking system was in place:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/images/timobollranking2017.jpg

What are your thoughts on the new World Ranking System?

John18
11-07-2017, 02:47 PM
First impression... I don't find it a good idea...

Depending too much on who you would face in the first rounds... so luck will be a big factor... :(
Seems less accurate and less "showing" of the strenght of a player than current system...


But I understand... made to force the "big names" to come more often in Pro Tour events...

bobpuls
11-07-2017, 03:18 PM
First impression... I don't find it a good idea...

Depending too much on who you would face in the first rounds... so luck will be a big factor... :(
Seems less accurate and less "showing" of the strenght of a player than current system...


But I understand... made to force the "big names" to come more often in Pro Tour events...
I fully agree with you ...it is based on really short period... and it is forcing the top players to play more.....
But what about prize money then or health ?

DattJesicht
11-07-2017, 03:19 PM
I think this is bogus. It seems like it's just a shift to indicating who's the most active on the pro tour instead of who's best and I always thought world rankings are all about the latter.

And I doubt the new system "forces" players to be more active. I doubt that players have been simply too lazy to play, I think they have good reasons to skip pro tour events and they will continue to have the same good reasons.

Atas Newton
11-07-2017, 03:46 PM
Can't see the older guys like Timo and Vladi retaining their rankings with the new system. There's only so many matches you can play per year before picking up an injury.

sanavasaraja
11-07-2017, 03:49 PM
No amount of happy upbeat background music makes this a good idea

NextLevel
11-07-2017, 04:12 PM
I am not sure about the points per tournament, but I think this new ranking system is a move in the right direction *if* it gives the Tour a better product and encourages more sponsorship with better players playing more often. I think that over rewarding participation may hurt the quality of the rankings a bit but I think that anyone can maintain a reasonable ELO system to measure player strength in their own spare time and it is more important for us to encourage more play on the tour. Having to wait forever to see Ma Long or FZD or never seeing Ding Ning hurts the quality of the tour.

Sali
11-07-2017, 05:18 PM
IT is all about money. Players do not participate in all tours because IT costs a lot of money so they just choose the most important to stay high on the ranking system. The other thing is the league where they play and sometimes they cannot be two places at the same time. Anyway I Hope to see best players competing more and more on international stage.

rainneverever
11-07-2017, 06:16 PM
I used the current and new ranking system in October to predict the results of 2017 World Cup and compared with the actual results.
For men's 2017 World Cup, there are 26 matches in total. The current ranking system predicts 23 correctly and the new system 21.
For women's 2017 World Cup, there are 28 matches in total. The current ranking system predicts 24 correctly and the new system 19.
54 matches are not a big pool, while the current system outperforms the new system in predicting results, 87% vs 74% success rate. I am curious about German Open and Swedish Open with more matches and more diverse participants.
Anyway, maybe no one really cares about predicting results except bidding companies? It maybe a good thing that the seeding can be chaos and bring fun to the audience. It may end CNT dominance or it may reinforce CNT dominance. Time will tell.

Simas
11-07-2017, 06:31 PM
I think this is bogus. It seems like it's just a shift to indicating who's the most active on the pro tour instead of who's best and I always thought world rankings are all about the latter.


Very well said.

richrf
11-07-2017, 06:38 PM
I used the current and new ranking system in October to predict the results of 2017 World Cup and compared with the actual results.
For men's 2017 World Cup, there are 26 matches in total. The current ranking system predicts 23 correctly and the new system 21.
For women's 2017 World Cup, there are 28 matches in total. The current ranking system predicts 24 correctly and the new system 19.
54 matches are not a big pool, while the current system outperforms the new system in predicting results, 87% vs 74% success rate. I am curious about German Open and Swedish Open with more matches and more diverse participants.
Anyway, maybe no one really cares about predicting results except bidding companies? It maybe a good thing that the seeding can be chaos and bring fun to the audience. It may end CNT dominance or it may reinforce CNT dominance. Time will tell.

Yes, the new system is designed to add more excitement and uncertainty. It also will help ensusre that "#1" thru "#10" are playing in more tournaments regardless of true playing strength. Maybe some TV deals required this? Audiences want to see the "top" players.

Tony's Table Tennis
11-08-2017, 06:44 AM
With inside intel.....
This is going to cause more injuries.

I have spent the past year close and inside TPE's camp.
more than 50% of the players are injured or carrying an injury while playing

Already with the 40+ balls, this is breaking the body
now to remain world ranking - one must play even more.....

Trust me, a lot of players aim at world ranking for seeding

Seeding for singles world champ and same individual seeing links to seeding for world teams champ.

This world ranking is changing from players skill level to participation and the point awarded for losers in higher round is way off.
So imagine round 1 have 2 formal seeds (of Dec's ranking), the 1 top 20 player will end up in outside 100 in no time :p

Tony's Table Tennis
11-08-2017, 06:48 AM
IT is all about money. Players do not participate in all tours because IT costs a lot of money so they just choose the most important to stay high on the ranking system. The other thing is the league where they play and sometimes they cannot be two places at the same time. Anyway I Hope to see best players competing more and more on international stage.

The same as any other sports, you get different rating/ranking tournament with different prize money structure.
The better players go to the higher rated/ranked/prized money tournament
while your tier 2 / 3s etc go to the lower rated/ranked/prized money tournament

As much as international matches are important, the actual ground work on promoting table tennis is club level.
T2, Indian league, Euro league, Asian league
Invitational tournaments

Then training 30 to 40 hours a week
Pick up an injury and you are off the world ranking

I doubt these changes has the players best intention in mind.
So should all players stop playing domestic tt and only focus on international?

Tony's Table Tennis
11-08-2017, 06:51 AM
I am not sure about the points per tournament, but I think this new ranking system is a move in the right direction *if* it gives the Tour a better product and encourages more sponsorship with better players playing more often. I think that over rewarding participation may hurt the quality of the rankings a bit but I think that anyone can maintain a reasonable ELO system to measure player strength in their own spare time and it is more important for us to encourage more play on the tour. Having to wait forever to see Ma Long or FZD or never seeing Ding Ning hurts the quality of the tour.

So to have number 1 and number 2 to face each other in the 1st round
but then have a easy walk over games in qf/sf/final

I really hope the changes is for the better
I just hope my friends won't get more injured than they already are

PS, they are getting higher world ranking (record high) with the seeds falling out of the world ranking lol

Sali
11-08-2017, 07:58 AM
The same as any other sports, you get different rating/ranking tournament with different prize money structure.
The better players go to the higher rated/ranked/prized money tournament
while your tier 2 / 3s etc go to the lower rated/ranked/prized money tournament

As much as international matches are important, the actual ground work on promoting table tennis is club level.
T2, Indian league, Euro league, Asian league
Invitational tournaments

Then training 30 to 40 hours a week
Pick up an injury and you are off the world ranking

I doubt these changes has the players best intention in mind.
So should all players stop playing domestic tt and only focus on international?

That is a good point, but as you mentioned other sports it is always like top players compete internatinal stage and this is their main purpose. For instant in football even if top players play in great clubs like Bayern Munchen they always have to be free when the play for their country. Of course there is much bigger money in football but I thing asking top player to compete more on international stage is good. At the same time they should get more money for participating those tours and then it would be more fair (they should get money from their country mostly). Why do you think some top players chose to play T2 - the reason is money.
You say Ma Long is the best player in the world and we are afraid he can be injured so let him stay at home and play just few Times a year. In my opinion his country should decide to compete less on national stage and send him to compete abroad to represent china.

drunix80
11-08-2017, 09:43 AM
Ittf's strategy always has been to somehow break CNT's stranglehold by introducing strange new rules to the game. They somehow feel that by artificially inducing players from other countries into top 10, they will popularize table tennis in different countries and get more sponsorship. I think this is wrong in multiple counts. You have to honour your top players and give them space to be in their top shape when ever they perform instead of dragging them to all tour events.

It would have been much better if ITTF bought good HD rec equipment, hire some professional cameramen /editors and of course increase prize money than to introduce nonsense

langel
11-08-2017, 10:45 AM
I can't tell which system is better and in what aspect, but the new one may be more interesitng and intrege.
It should not be a problem for Timo Boll to play more in March, I think.
About injuries - well, they are a bad thing, but are all on players' personal account. Kubrat Pulev injured and could not fight with Anthony Joshua and lost a lot of money, but it happens in sports. So try not to injure. "I'm better, but I'm injured" do not proove.

I like the Snooker rating system - money count, more money - higher rating, no money - no rating. And I think this would put more pressure on sponsors too and more money will come to the TT system.

Tony's Table Tennis
11-09-2017, 10:22 AM
That is a good point, but as you mentioned other sports it is always like top players compete internatinal stage and this is their main purpose. For instant in football even if top players play in great clubs like Bayern Munchen they always have to be free when the play for their country. Of course there is much bigger money in football but I thing asking top player to compete more on international stage is good. At the same time they should get more money for participating those tours and then it would be more fair (they should get money from their country mostly). Why do you think some top players chose to play T2 - the reason is money.
You say Ma Long is the best player in the world and we are afraid he can be injured so let him stay at home and play just few Times a year. In my opinion his country should decide to compete less on national stage and send him to compete abroad to represent china.

We are not afraid of players getting injured, it is too late, they are already injured
The fact is most of your top players are already injured and carrying some injury - they are not 100% fit.

I would rather take a player off the circuit and heal, but unfortunately the time, stress, and changes are not helping the player.
After the players career, ITTF don't care about those injuries, but the player needs to live with it for the rest of the lives.
I guess fans don't care, ITTF don't care, sponsors don't care.
I have friends that go to tournament straight from therapy and have medical crew with them on the tour
they get wrapped around like mummies, and only at 60-70% fit when playing.
playing with pain killers etc
after the tournament, they back in treatment
but i guess you don't care as all you want to see is good tt rallies?

Also, right now your top players will only play in your platinum tours - with higher points/money
What is the purpose of say Ma Long going to play in a small tour where with him playing left hand he could still win?

The stress of traveling is not worth attending lowly rated tournament
just like if you are a 1st division player, you won't waste your time playing in 3rd division

Also, you forgot the political factor in of how sports runs.
Do you think Ma Long is controlled only by CNT?
That he can give up provincial duties and only do international?
half the things, he can't decide for himself

Most of your big sports is bigger than your international tournaments

i would rather have CSL or European champions league over a world tour as you get to see more action and not a 1 sided victory. look at NBA or soccer leagues as compirison

Sali
11-09-2017, 01:03 PM
We are not afraid of players getting injured, it is too late, they are already injured
The fact is most of your top players are already injured and carrying some injury - they are not 100% fit.

I would rather take a player off the circuit and heal, but unfortunately the time, stress, and changes are not helping the player.
After the players career, ITTF don't care about those injuries, but the player needs to live with it for the rest of the lives.
I guess fans don't care, ITTF don't care, sponsors don't care.
I have friends that go to tournament straight from therapy and have medical crew with them on the tour
they get wrapped around like mummies, and only at 60-70% fit when playing.
playing with pain killers etc
after the tournament, they back in treatment
but i guess you don't care as all you want to see is good tt rallies?

Also, right now your top players will only play in your platinum tours - with higher points/money
What is the purpose of say Ma Long going to play in a small tour where with him playing left hand he could still win?

The stress of traveling is not worth attending lowly rated tournament
just like if you are a 1st division player, you won't waste your time playing in 3rd division

Also, you forgot the political factor in of how sports runs.
Do you think Ma Long is controlled only by CNT?
That he can give up provincial duties and only do international?
half the things, he can't decide for himself

Most of your big sports is bigger than your international tournaments

i would rather have CSL or European champions league over a world tour as you get to see more action and not a 1 sided victory. look at NBA or soccer leagues as compirison
I understand your point but that situation is probably in most of sports. That is not my fault that I want to see top players competing each other more often. The old ranking system was not good, I remember Timo Boll was not playing like half year or had really poor appearances and still was top 10. Of course I know he was injured for most of time and as he goes older it is more likely to happen.
I understand NBA but in this league you will find best players all over the world, nationality does not matter and it is great, because NBA (or rather clubs) pay a lot of money to get best players from abroad as well. But look at CTTSL sometimes they take 1 or 2 players and this year they said no japanese will take part in our competition - ok it is up to them, but for the spectators it is bad decision.
So as a TT fan I want to see top players competing at least 1 time monthly, that is not big thing unless they are playing local leagues.
ITTF can do whatever they like to make the sport better for watch, to do that is to send best players for most of int competitions. But to solve the problem of injuries ITTF should talk with countries TTF and find solution to make players earn at least same money but not playing more and more.

Tony's Table Tennis
11-09-2017, 02:33 PM
I understand your point but that situation is probably in most of sports. That is not my fault that I want to see top players competing each other more often. The old ranking system was not good, I remember Timo Boll was not playing like half year or had really poor appearances and still was top 10. Of course I know he was injured for most of time and as he goes older it is more likely to happen.
I understand NBA but in this league you will find best players all over the world, nationality does not matter and it is great, because NBA (or rather clubs) pay a lot of money to get best players from abroad as well. But look at CTTSL sometimes they take 1 or 2 players and this year they said no japanese will take part in our competition - ok it is up to them, but for the spectators it is bad decision.
So as a TT fan I want to see top players competing at least 1 time monthly, that is not big thing unless they are playing local leagues.
ITTF can do whatever they like to make the sport better for watch, to do that is to send best players for most of int competitions. But to solve the problem of injuries ITTF should talk with countries TTF and find solution to make players earn at least same money but not playing more and more.

The problem is ITTF is trying in the wrong spot.

National feds want world champ and olympic medals
One would require descent world rankings points to rank high enough for seeds/qualifications etc

Now if we start messing around would rankings, then if it is incorrectly calculated then you will end up having high seeds all in group qualifications

imagine if Ma Long and Timo boll is in the same group (unseeded due to inactivity)
then before of the 4 players, 2 will go through, but now the 2 will go through is ML and TB, no more group qualifiers to make it.

the few other that made it due to "inflated" world ranking, would simply just be knocked out by lower rated players but higher skilled.

Imo ITTF probably signed a deal with some betting company, as all this only makes sense for betting companies and not for the players

ITTF can't make more money for players, just like how FIBA and FIFA makes close to zero money for players
The sooner we realise that our savior in TT is not ITTF, the better for all.

strangeloop
11-09-2017, 04:32 PM
Agree with Tony's comments above. More injuries (just look at top tennis players) are bound to follow. No point in aping some other system just because it is more lucrative/glamorous!

Also, ITTF needs to remove the limited # of entries per country rule to truly determine who's ranked where.

Sali
11-09-2017, 06:26 PM
The problem is ITTF is trying in the wrong spot.

National feds want world champ and olympic medals
One would require descent world rankings points to rank high enough for seeds/qualifications etc

Now if we start messing around would rankings, then if it is incorrectly calculated then you will end up having high seeds all in group qualifications

imagine if Ma Long and Timo boll is in the same group (unseeded due to inactivity)
then before of the 4 players, 2 will go through, but now the 2 will go through is ML and TB, no more group qualifiers to make it.

the few other that made it due to "inflated" world ranking, would simply just be knocked out by lower rated players but higher skilled.

Imo ITTF probably signed a deal with some betting company, as all this only makes sense for betting companies and not for the players

ITTF can't make more money for players, just like how FIBA and FIFA makes close to zero money for players
The sooner we realise that our savior in TT is not ITTF, the better for all.

Well it is hard to argue I think we will have to wait and see how it will work.

TT Guru
11-10-2017, 02:45 AM
There is a lot of great discussion here, although many of those giving negative feedback don't seem to be interested in actually waiting to see how it pans out.
Do you really think Ding Ning will still be 19th in a year's time, in 6 months time even? She will have to pick up the slack and attend the World Tour to continue to prove herself to fans and opponents, and the same goes for all players who compete locally but only occasionally on the international stage. A player can't expect to stay at the top by showing up three times in a year.
The system also prevents the opposite issue, where players who compete more than 8 times in 12 months have only their top 8 results go towards the total points. Otherwise some of the Japanese players would be much higher, they compete 12+ times, one was as high as 18 events (senior only) within a 12 month period!
Once the system is in place it will smooth out, players will fight for their rank and it's a win for the sport. Tennis players get injured too, and they play in a similar system. Injuries are inevitable, but we shouldn't be letting injured players keep a ranking as high as active players who aren't injured. When someone isn't playing they should drop down the WR.
Thanks all for your feedback, I'm sure there is plenty more to look at, and it's an exciting time for Table Tennis!

Tony's Table Tennis
11-10-2017, 06:04 AM
There is a lot of great discussion here, although many of those giving negative feedback don't seem to be interested in actually waiting to see how it pans out.
Do you really think Ding Ning will still be 19th in a year's time, in 6 months time even? She will have to pick up the slack and attend the World Tour to continue to prove herself to fans and opponents, and the same goes for all players who compete locally but only occasionally on the international stage. A player can't expect to stay at the top by showing up three times in a year.
The system also prevents the opposite issue, where players who compete more than 8 times in 12 months have only their top 8 results go towards the total points. Otherwise some of the Japanese players would be much higher, they compete 12+ times, one was as high as 18 events (senior only) within a 12 month period!
Once the system is in place it will smooth out, players will fight for their rank and it's a win for the sport. Tennis players get injured too, and they play in a similar system. Injuries are inevitable, but we shouldn't be letting injured players keep a ranking as high as active players who aren't injured. When someone isn't playing they should drop down the WR.
Thanks all for your feedback, I'm sure there is plenty more to look at, and it's an exciting time for Table Tennis!

I think if TT stayed TT and it can be like Tennis

IE:
Tennis didn't change from a 21 point game to 11 point to make the weaker player have a more chance to win a set/game
it didn't slow down the sport by removing speed glue, increasing the ball size twice
It didn't change service rule, as there was too many aces for your better players.

Anyways, lets wait and see
imo the world tour would be nothing, lets see how the seeding will work at the world champs

Andy44
11-10-2017, 07:04 AM
Players and organizations follow money. If the ITTF controls enough of the available table tennis money, any reasonable incentives scheme will work to encourage more participation. If they don't control a big enough share of the money, nothing will work. Breaking the rankings system is either unnecessary or useless. My guess is it's useless, and the CNT et. al. will simply start ignoring the rankings. I know I will. As a fan, if the rankings don't reflect reality, then to me they're not real rankings. Reminds me of boxing, with multiple "official" sanctioning organizations, each with their own rankings and champions which nobody cares about anymore.

rainneverever
11-10-2017, 01:29 PM
I brought it up before, in tennis, runnerup gets 0.6 times of ranking points of winner but in TT runnerup gets 0.9 times of ranking points of winner. First round loser gets 0 point in tennis while 0.5 times of ranking points of winner in TT. That's a huge difference.

Michal_Z
11-10-2017, 03:59 PM
Ehm.. To add my opinion ..
I dont understand, how would this add more injuries into the sport?
I think you are missing one important thing - if I understand correctly, only 8 BEST results per YEAR are considered.
So in fact - all you need is to attend 8 tournaments you want to play per one year.
Is that so difficult?

So I dont think it is that bad.. It will give us more surprising matches, more meeting of players that would not meet or not meet that early.
But that will be only the beginning.
After that players will sort it out and the ranking will be more stable.

In the end this is a good thing.

rainneverever
11-10-2017, 04:27 PM
More participation of top players or all players internationally is not a bad thing at all. I don't think anyone in the discussion argues against it. The discussions are about whether the new ranking system is rewarding participation over results. Both should be rewarded.



Ehm.. To add my opinion ..
I dont understand, how would this add more injuries into the sport?
I think you are missing one important thing - if I understand correctly, only 8 BEST results per YEAR are considered.
So in fact - all you need is to attend 8 tournaments you want to play per one year.
Is that so difficult?

So I dont think it is that bad.. It will give us more surprising matches, more meeting of players that would not meet or not meet that early.
But that will be only the beginning.
After that players will sort it out and the ranking will be more stable.

In the end this is a good thing.

Michal_Z
11-10-2017, 04:37 PM
More participation of top players or all players internationally is not a bad thing at all. I don't think anyone in the discussion argues against it. The discussions are about whether the new ranking system is rewarding participation over results. Both should be rewarded.

But it is said they take only 8 best results, or do I miss something?
So no matter if you go to 40 tournaments per year or just 8, only 8 will count.
Best 8..
Or not?

Tony's Table Tennis
11-10-2017, 04:43 PM
Yes, its the best 8

Rain pointed the key
the looser gets way too much points.
I think rain mentioned some where before

If player A wons a tournament, but injured or non participation for next 3 (so he take parts in 1 of 4, but won the 1)
will be ranked lower than
Player B who looses in a lower round 4 times

rainneverever
11-10-2017, 05:04 PM
The points difference between good results (say finalists) and not-so-good results(say first round loser of main draw) is too small. Round of 32 in 6 Platinum Tours and 2 regular Tours add up 8550. If you check Nov ranking with new system, 8550 is higher than both #32 of men and women.



But it is said they take only 8 best results, or do I miss something?
So no matter if you go to 40 tournaments per year or just 8, only 8 will count.
Best 8..
Or not?

NextLevel
11-10-2017, 05:15 PM
The points difference between good results (say finalists) and not-so-good results(say first round loser of main draw) is too small. Round of 32 in 6 Platinum Tours and 2 regular Tours add up 8550. If you check Nov ranking with new system, 8550 is higher than both #32 of men and women.

But you will have to qualify for round of 32 in most events. That is the part you are missing.

I don't think the formula is right, but I am sure it can be adjusted if necessary.

Tony's Table Tennis
11-11-2017, 06:55 PM
But you will have to qualify for round of 32 in most events. That is the part you are missing.

I don't think the formula is right, but I am sure it can be adjusted if necessary.

It should of been adjusted before going live...

So player A plays 3 Tours, player B plays 6

Player A
1) wins platinum
2) SF platinum
3) SF platinum
Total points 2250 + 1800 + 1800 = 5850

Player B
1) Looser R16, platinum
2) Looser R16, platinum
3) Looser R32, platinum
4) Looser R32, platinum
5) QF normal tour
6) Looser R32, normal tour
points: 1350 + 1350 + 1125 + 1125 + 1260 + 900 = 7110

Player A will be ranked lower than Player B
Player B has never made it into Top 16 on platinum tour
Player A has always been into Top 4
Even if player A wins all 3 platinum tours, that is only 6750 points and still ranked lower than Player B

Simply looser get way too much points

Tony's Table Tennis
11-11-2017, 07:06 PM
But it is said they take only 8 best results, or do I miss something?
So no matter if you go to 40 tournaments per year or just 8, only 8 will count.
Best 8..
Or not?

That is correct
For your pros, the platinum is only 6 events, then you get normal tours, which is 6.
ITTF is trying to get all top players to go to every one.

Excluding the german open that is on going, there has been 5 + 5 up to date.
with the german being 6 and sweden open 6

up to 5+5
You can check players participation here:
https://d3mjm6zw6cr45s.cloudfront.net/2017/02/Mens-Standings.pdf

Other than JPN who are like 7 or 8 of 10, most of your pros (Chinese, German etc) are all under 5 out of 10 participation

ITTF is forcing participation as if you don't, you will be ranked lower.
So imo, go play when your injured, and get a looser point in R32 is better than 0 points

Suga D
11-11-2017, 10:41 PM
The points difference between good results (say finalists) and not-so-good results(say first round loser of main draw) is too small. Round of 32 in 6 Platinum Tours and 2 regular Tours add up 8550. If you check Nov ranking with new system, 8550 is higher than both #32 of men and women.

Not only that!

Good results don't get rewarded like they used to.
Example: let's say Alexander Valuch faces Xu Xin in the first round of a tournament. And now let's imagine he catches XX on a bad day and manages to win against him.
Then in the next round he has to face Jakub Dyjas and gets a 4:0 beating.
But now because he didn't manage to reach semis or finals guess how many points Valuch gets for his win over XX???

Exactly: ZILCH! ZERO! NADA! Not a damn point!

Opposed to the recent ranking system, where he would get at least a few points as a little reward!

So now what's up with that? Still a good system?!?!?!

ttpshot
11-11-2017, 11:35 PM
Right now, I'm loving German open because many high ranked players are participating so even the qualifiers are great to watch.
If the new system encourages top players to attend more PTs, then I'm more for it.

I also think that taking ELO factor out of is a good idea because higher ranked players won't get penalized(ie. lose rating points) for participating.

TT Guru
11-13-2017, 04:35 AM
It should of been adjusted before going live...

So player A plays 3 Tours, player B plays 6

Player A
1) wins platinum
2) SF platinum
3) SF platinum
Total points 2250 + 1800 + 1800 = 5850

Player B
1) Looser R16, platinum
2) Looser R16, platinum
3) Looser R32, platinum
4) Looser R32, platinum
5) QF normal tour
6) Looser R32, normal tour
points: 1350 + 1350 + 1125 + 1125 + 1260 + 900 = 7110

Player A will be ranked lower than Player B
Player B has never made it into Top 16 on platinum tour
Player A has always been into Top 4
Even if player A wins all 3 platinum tours, that is only 6750 points and still ranked lower than Player B

Simply looser get way too much points

Hi Tony,

Just a small correction to the above.
In cases where a seeded player loses their first match in a world tour (R32) they will receive 50% of the normal points. This doesn't apply to players who qualified to that stage from group/KO qualification rounds.
I can still see your argument applying in certain circumstances, but if player A is not competing in more than 3 events within 12 months they shouldn't be ranked very highly. We must account for events outside of the World Tour, because while it is a very important part of the calendar there are still other competitions worth considering. The above scenario would not impact the ranking in the same way if player A (and B) are present in these other high profile events.

rainneverever
11-13-2017, 08:45 PM
Another issue with the new system. ITTF tours are not well spread out in a year. There are several months with two ITTF tours and several months with none. This may lead to a dramatic change of rankings in certain months. The players should not be responsible for the rank drop which may affect seeding of the upcoming tournament because of the unevenly distributed schedule of ITTF tours. Surely, in the month without ITTF tours, there may be continental events or world team events. But only one continental event is counted and the points for team events are low.



I can still see your argument applying in certain circumstances, but if player A is not competing in more than 3 events within 12 months they shouldn't be ranked very highly. We must account for events outside of the World Tour, because while it is a very important part of the calendar there are still other competitions worth considering. The above scenario would not impact the ranking in the same way if player A (and B) are present in these other high profile events.

Tony's Table Tennis
11-13-2017, 09:47 PM
Agree with Rain's part of the ittf schedule - there will be months where the seeding/ranking will be way way off.

So based on 2017 schedule, a lot of your seeds with become unseeded (player B ranked higher than player A etc)
To me its not logic on - a top 4 player ranked lower than a r32 player?

Then, please don't call it world ranking - just use what they call it - world tour ranking and keep it call world ranking the same as before (based on player skills with wins and losses)

What interest me is world team champs
I guess Germany has done enough for a good draw, so would be top 2 seed.
Imagine if the math is against Germany and Dima/Boll lost a lot of ranking point and end up Germany facing China in a QF

I just check WTTTC on ITTF, no prospectus yet... weird, normally it is out 1 year + prior
wanted to check when is the seeding deadline/world ranking list it would use.
I guess 1 March - so the 2 yummy platinum tours in March won't contribute to wtttc points seeding

TT Guru
11-13-2017, 10:37 PM
If a player has only 8 events and some of them will expire during a month without world tour events, then they are not participating enough. I would hope the players have hindsight to keep a 9th and 10th (etc) as backup for that scenario, see Polcanova below. These players will remain at the top regardless of gaps in the world tour.


14680

Re: Tony's comment on team seedings:
This will be overhauled after Halmstad WTTC, and it hasn't been done according to top 3 players for quite a while. Team seedings are tricky to get right so it's a work in progress, but it's good to see people taking an interest.

rainneverever
11-13-2017, 10:39 PM
What interest me is world team champs
I guess Germany has done enough for a good draw, so would be top 2 seed.
Imagine if the math is against Germany and Dima/Boll lost a lot of ranking point and end up Germany facing China in a QF

I just check WTTTC on ITTF, no prospectus yet... weird, normally it is out 1 year + prior
wanted to check when is the seeding deadline/world ranking list it would use.
I guess 1 March - so the 2 yummy platinum tours in March won't contribute to wtttc points seeding

Oops, I checked Nov team ranking under current and new system. That's too different. It will be really interesting to see how ranking affects seeding in 2018 WTTTC.


Men's team
Nov-current
Nov-new


1
CHN
CHN


2
GER
JPN


3
JPN
GER


4
FRA
FRA


5
KOR
HKG


6
SWE
POR


7
TPE
TPE


8
POR
SWE







Women's team
Nov-current
Nov-new


1
CHN
CHN


2
JPN
JPN


3
TPE
HKG


4
HKG
TPE


5
KOR
KOR


6
SGP
ROU


7
ROU
HUN


8
GER
NED

rainneverever
11-14-2017, 10:38 PM
Quiz:
Who is the last non-CNT player that was once ranked men's WR#1? Hint: he is not retired.
How many CNT players and non-CNT players have been ranked as men's WR#1? Hint: fewer than 10 for both.

Suga D
11-14-2017, 11:31 PM
Answer to question one:

Timo Boll

rainneverever
11-15-2017, 03:08 AM
Bingo, 2011 January to March, Timo Boll. Before, ML; after, WH.
Curious about who will become the new WR#1 next January, Dima or FZD. Neither has reached #1 before.


Answer to question one:

Timo Boll

Tony's Table Tennis
11-15-2017, 09:20 AM
Oops, I checked Nov team ranking under current and new system. That's too different. It will be really interesting to see how ranking affects seeding in 2018 WTTTC.


Men's team
Nov-current
Nov-new


1
CHN
CHN


2
GER
JPN


3
JPN
GER


4
FRA
FRA


5
KOR
HKG


6
SWE
POR


7
TPE
TPE


8
POR
SWE







Women's team
Nov-current
Nov-new


1
CHN
CHN


2
JPN
JPN


3
TPE
HKG


4
HKG
TPE


5
KOR
KOR


6
SGP
ROU


7
ROU
HUN


8
GER
NED




Rain
I didn't even bother to go check, as I don't have so much time like you
What I did check was the world tour ranking during the previous post somewhere, and so many countries this year have participated in 6 tours (meaning lots of 7 or 8 tours could get higher points than them).
Based by a quick brain calculation, it will place them very weak for next year's ranking

based on your table - Korea is out of the top 8 for mens - we all know that isn't a true reflection on playing level.
Any ways, if Germany plays China before SF, then it is disappointing

NextLevel
11-15-2017, 02:41 PM
Rain
I didn't even bother to go check, as I don't have so much time like you
What I did check was the world tour ranking during the previous post somewhere, and so many countries this year have participated in 6 tours (meaning lots of 7 or 8 tours could get higher points than them).
Based by a quick brain calculation, it will place them very weak for next year's ranking

based on your table - Korea is out of the top 8 for mens - we all know that isn't a true reflection on playing level.
Any ways, if Germany plays China before SF, then it is disappointing

Germany was seeded #2 in the last WTTTC. Look at what happened with Boll injured and Dima not playing.

In the end, no system is going to be 100% perfect.

Tony's Table Tennis
11-15-2017, 03:39 PM
Germany was seeded #2 in the last WTTTC. Look at what happened with Boll injured and Dima not playing.

In the end, no system is going to be 100% perfect.
last WTTTC for Germany was unfortunate - but they were seeded correctly.

If the whole CNT team ends up injured but going in was seeded correctly, then i'm not sure what you are trying to proof

seeding/ranking is linked
Injured before or during tournament has nothing to do with seeding/ranking

If you prefer participation ranking vs level ranking, then good for you, you can get a job at ittf

NextLevel
11-15-2017, 03:55 PM
last WTTTC for Germany was unfortunate - but they were seeded correctly.

If the whole CNT team ends up injured but going in was seeded correctly, then i'm not sure what you are trying to proof

seeding/ranking is linked
Injured before or during tournament has nothing to do with seeding/ranking

If you prefer participation ranking vs level ranking, then good for you, you can get a job at ittf

No, they were not. Boll had worse results coming into the tournament and there was no way that even with Dima they would have performed well. So they should have had a lower level coming in based on recent participation. Even Korea, they are gaining the benefit of an injured Jeung being overrated in the current ranking. If his playing level returns, fine, but right now, his results in the WTTC and other events as well as his not playing do not make him an easy top 10 player like he was before. Only Lee Sang Su is performing consistently well with Sangeun performing inconsistently and Woojin bring it up slowly.

You can say what you want about being ranked but participation matters. The new ranking is not so far off the old ranking.

TT Guru
11-23-2017, 05:38 AM
Dimitrij Ovtcharov is almost certain to be no.1 in January. The only possible way for Fan Zhendong to be ranked higher is if Dima loses in 1st round at WTGF and Fan wins the whole event.

Talk about ​pressure!

rainneverever
11-23-2017, 05:42 AM
Will Dima's dream come true?
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi1.hoopchina.com.cn%2Fblogfile%2F201711%2F22%2FBbsImg151134125324004_80128101175161_730x387.png

TT Guru
11-23-2017, 06:58 AM
Any translation for the above?

Andy44
11-23-2017, 07:50 AM
"I dream of leading the WR even if this is almost impossible with the strength of the Chinese. A World Cup singles medal and another chance at an Olympic medal in singles are my career goals. But I'm happy about every success and saddened by all defeats... Dima"

Suga D
11-23-2017, 08:38 AM
Not only that!

Good results don't get rewarded like they used to.
Example: let's say Alexander Valuch faces Xu Xin in the first round of a tournament. And now let's imagine he catches XX on a bad day and manages to win against him.
Then in the next round he has to face Jakub Dyjas and gets a 4:0 beating.
But now because he didn't manage to reach semis or finals guess how many points Valuch gets for his win over XX???

Exactly: ZILCH! ZERO! NADA! Not a damn point!

Opposed to the recent ranking system, where he would get at least a few points as a little reward!


@ TT Guru:
I couldn't find any reaction to this. What are your thoughts about this? Would be interesting to know.

NextLevel
11-23-2017, 09:53 PM
@ TT Guru:
I couldn't find any reaction to this. What are your thoughts about this? Would be interesting to know.

This is what happens on the ATP tour currently btw. You beat Roger Federer or Rafa Nadal, lose in the next round, you get exactly the same impact on your ranking as if you beat any other two players.

TT Guru
11-24-2017, 03:21 AM
@ TT Guru:
I couldn't find any reaction to this. What are your thoughts about this? Would be interesting to know.

NextLevel has summed it up pretty well. It's important not to examine one system with the other system still in mind. Things are going to change drastically starting in January, they will take some time to equalise. If players want to reach the top they must have quality results regularly. It's no longer a case of looking at the draw and discovering the opponents are ranked too high or too low for a player to stand much chance of improving his/her own rank. With more players entering more events the draws will be exciting and offer a better experience to a wider audience. The players themselves will benefit based on how much effort they put in. Planning a full calendar of events and performing well should correlate to a high ranking, not attending four times in a year (Ding Ning). If a player is injured then that is a disadvantage to them. Why should they be able to retain their position by sitting at home most of the year while others are playing 12+ competitions and fighting against the tide?

We all want to see the top players play, not just their names on a list. With this new WR we can have both.

Suga D
11-24-2017, 07:34 AM
Thanks a lot for your replies.

That makes sense in a way, still i think we will have to wait and see how it all works out.
A change is not necessarily always a change for the better.
I mean just look at the ball change,
At first many amateures complained of inconsistent quality, which seems to have become better. But now many top pros started complaining, because of so many varying ball types.

What a mess. I don't think that was how it was intended to be.

langel
11-24-2017, 08:07 AM
Thanks a lot for your replies.

That makes sense in a way, still i think we will have to wait and see how it all works out.
A change is not necessarily always a change for the better.
I mean just look at the ball change,
At first many amateures complained of inconsistent quality, which seems to have become better. But now many top pros started complaining, because of so many varying ball types.

What a mess. I don't think that was how it was intended to be.

After the first complains about ABS quality I started to look at the Kingniks' ABS balls, they still don't have a three star ABS and I think thats the fair play with customers. When Kingnik start to release a three star ABS I may decide to try it. Till then I'll stick to seamless.

Suga D
11-24-2017, 09:45 AM
After the first complains about ABS quality I started to look at the Kingniks' ABS balls, they still don't have a three star ABS and I think thats the fair play with customers. When Kingnik start to release a three star ABS I may decide to try it. Till then I'll stick to seamless.

I don´t want to get off-topic too much, so just a two-liner:
that might be fine and apply to you if play at home or just privately at your club, but if you play competitive in a league or tournaments you can NOT decide with what you play, you HAVE to use what´s there!

langel
11-24-2017, 10:28 AM
Yes, that's right.
Of course in tournaments you can't play with other ball than the official one.
But it does not mean that players should not share their attitude. On the contrary - the more attitudes shared, the better reactions from all partyes involved.

Suga D
11-24-2017, 11:51 AM
Yes, that's right.
Of course in tournaments you can't play with other ball than the official one.
But it does not mean that players should not share their attitude. On the contrary - the more attitudes shared, the better reactions from all partyes involved.

Understood.

Well, maybe I´m just not smart enough to understand your kind of logic, but to me your post misses my point entirely.

I wrote that time will tell if the new ranking system will show if it´s good or not and added that so far not every change made was a good change, by giving the example of the desastrous ball change.

The way I understand your post is, you seem to say that the ball change wasn´t so bad after all, if everybody would use the seamless ball. Hence the new ranking system just must be lovely as well...

Well, welcome to the forum, Mr. Shararah
[Emoji2]
I´m quite glad we´re not forced to use his sh*tty balls...

Back to the ranking system:

Let´s talk about this in a year or two again.

TT Guru
11-25-2017, 01:41 AM
Thanks a lot for your replies.

That makes sense in a way, still i think we will have to wait and see how it all works out.
A change is not necessarily always a change for the better.
I mean just look at the ball change,
At first many amateures complained of inconsistent quality, which seems to have become better. But now many top pros started complaining, because of so many varying ball types.

What a mess. I don't think that was how it was intended to be.

Yes, I agree changing to the plastic ball was a move that virtually no one wanted. It was due to the customs and transportation issues with the celluloid balls, as they are highly flammable. My father is the Joola & Yasaka distributor in my home country, I remember his frustration when the shipments were frequently held up at customs because of the balls. I set one on fire once, and it burned fast!

At the WTTC this year I witnessed only a single ball break in the main hall (though undoubtedly there would have been more), which is a vast improvement from the celluloid ball. It has taken a while to reach this stage of course, and some brands are still not there yet.

My point is this, sometimes change is unavoidable. The ITTF is made up of people looking to improve the sport for all parties. It's like TTX (which I'm not particularly fond of), it gets so much flak from Table Tennis players. But what they don't realise is TTX is not for them. It's for everyday people who might play once in a while with friends. The kind of people who would visit Bounce or Spin (Table Tennis bar/nightclubs in London & New York) for a business event and find the sport enjoyable but not in the way we did when we got involved. It's for people who aren't going to spend half a grand on equipment, who aren't interested in beating the pros on the next table, or attending weekly training sessions. The problem with TTX is that the only audience it's reaching currently is the one which hates it.

That was a bit of a tangent from the original topic but to bring it back to WR I'll say this:
When enough decisions are questioned and debated by the community it creates a stigma towards the organisation, in this case ITTF. If a new player started out today and asked about the ITTF he/she might be told they're a counterproductive lot who don't know what they're doing. The Youtube comments can attest to that! Not many of the people plastering negative slurs on ITTF highlights are aware of the process involved there. To have HD 1080p 60fps videos requires transferring an enormous file size to the editors who are not with the team on site, this alone would take too long and mean highlights take days longer to upload. It would cost more and viewers would complain that the event is over already. Besides this the ITTF has agreements with TV networks around the world which stream at high quality. So demanding free material at top quality is somewhat selfish. When the Olympics are on I always pay for coverage, and the same goes for any other sporting event of significance. Imagine if people had a tantrum because the McGregor vs Mayweather UFC bout wasn't free...

When we take the time to analyse and research the reasons behind certain decisions, and stop spreading hate towards the ITTF, the organisation stands a better chance at getting Table Tennis to the big screen more often. Their aim is to be in the top 5 Olympic sports. A little support wouldn't hurt. The goal of this new WR is to make things more exciting for everyone. Since it hasn't started yet let's wait and see what happens before deciding it'll be the death of Table Tennis as we know it.

rainneverever
11-25-2017, 02:59 AM
Correct me if I am wrong. One reason of increasing the size and weight of balls is to make table tennis sport easier to view... Isn't it much easier to improve the recording and livestreaming tech for viewers to see the details of the placements and spins than to frequently change devices and rules and make troubles to the players? Do you see such frequent changes in other racket sports? Badminton? Tennis? When ITTF tries to borrow rules from other sports, has it ever investigated why other sports get more prize money, newer tech, better coverage? For badminton tours, participation is sort of "forced" while the prize money is three times of ITTF tours (there was no difference 10 years ago). Not to mention the prize money of tennis. People play badminton for fitness and for fun and people play table tennis for fitness and for fun. I am not against things like TTX but I am just curious without BX, how can BWF manage to get more prize money for their tours within 10 years? Why cannot ITTF?

Tony's Table Tennis
11-25-2017, 06:26 AM
Correct me if I am wrong. One reason of increasing the size and weight of balls is to make table tennis sport easier to view... Isn't it much easier to improve the recording and livestreaming tech for viewers to see the details of the placements and spins than to frequently change devices and rules and make troubles to the players? Do you see such frequent changes in other racket sports? Badminton? Tennis? When ITTF tries to borrow rules from other sports, has it ever investigated why other sports get more prize money, newer tech, better coverage? For badminton tours, participation is sort of "forced" while the prize money is three times of ITTF tours (there was no difference 10 years ago). Not to mention the prize money of tennis. People play badminton for fitness and for fun and people play table tennis for fitness and for fun. I am not against things like TTX but I am just curious without BX, how can BWF manage to get more prize money for their tours within 10 years? Why cannot ITTF?

Spot on
everything ITTF claim to do is for the player, for the fan, for the audience
But:
For Player: player retire or loose out with all these changes, player get injured more, player need to find other avenues to make income (ITTF tournament can barely break even the costs of being an athlete or simply just getting to the tournament), lots to list
For Fan: Every time equipment rule change, pricing goes up up up. Be a good fan - pay more money?
For Audience: well technology is improving, ITTF didn't approve, it just went with technology

Yes, ITTF is doing very well to get every nation on the planet as a member.
But at the end of the day, ITTF prize money is a joke for any professional sport.

In South Africa, you generally classify Table Tennis as a game and not a sport
But I guess if the international and national bodies don't take the sport serious, it can only remain a game (now how many countries are the same here?)

You take China out of the equation, viewer ship on TT is not too great

Suga D
11-25-2017, 12:14 PM
Yes, I agree changing to the plastic ball was a move that virtually no one wanted. It was due to the customs and transportation issues with the celluloid balls, as they are highly flammable. My father is the Joola & Yasaka distributor in my home country, I remember his frustration when the shipments were frequently held up at customs because of the balls. I set one on fire once, and it burned fast!

At the WTTC this year I witnessed only a single ball break in the main hall (though undoubtedly there would have been more), which is a vast improvement from the celluloid ball. It has taken a while to reach this stage of course, and some brands are still not there yet.

My point is this, sometimes change is unavoidable. The ITTF is made up of people looking to improve the sport for all parties. It's like TTX (which I'm not particularly fond of), it gets so much flak from Table Tennis players. But what they don't realise is TTX is not for them. It's for everyday people who might play once in a while with friends. The kind of people who would visit Bounce or Spin (Table Tennis bar/nightclubs in London & New York) for a business event and find the sport enjoyable but not in the way we did when we got involved. It's for people who aren't going to spend half a grand on equipment, who aren't interested in beating the pros on the next table, or attending weekly training sessions. The problem with TTX is that the only audience it's reaching currently is the one which hates it.

That was a bit of a tangent from the original topic but to bring it back to WR I'll say this:
When enough decisions are questioned and debated by the community it creates a stigma towards the organisation, in this case ITTF. If a new player started out today and asked about the ITTF he/she might be told they're a counterproductive lot who don't know what they're doing. The Youtube comments can attest to that! Not many of the people plastering negative slurs on ITTF highlights are aware of the process involved there. To have HD 1080p 60fps videos requires transferring an enormous file size to the editors who are not with the team on site, this alone would take too long and mean highlights take days longer to upload. It would cost more and viewers would complain that the event is over already. Besides this the ITTF has agreements with TV networks around the world which stream at high quality. So demanding free material at top quality is somewhat selfish. When the Olympics are on I always pay for coverage, and the same goes for any other sporting event of significance. Imagine if people had a tantrum because the McGregor vs Mayweather UFC bout wasn't free...

When we take the time to analyse and research the reasons behind certain decisions, and stop spreading hate towards the ITTF, the organisation stands a better chance at getting Table Tennis to the big screen more often. Their aim is to be in the top 5 Olympic sports. A little support wouldn't hurt. The goal of this new WR is to make things more exciting for everyone. Since it hasn't started yet let's wait and see what happens before deciding it'll be the death of Table Tennis as we know it.

Thanks again TT Guru for your insightful answer and taking time to reply so detailed.

Your post makes a lot of sense. I've heard that ball production and transport in the c-ball era has been more than hazardous, but never met someone whose set one on fire personally. Hope nothing serious happened.

Since the days when internet forums and trolls came up spreading hate has become quite fashionable.
Maybe a bit more understanding and less excitement in discussing is more goal and result oriented and could be quite nice for a change.

My main point of critique is actually just one.

If a change didn't work out the way it was intended, it should be taken back IMHO. This applies for everything in life.

Yet i fail to see that the ITTF has ever done that. What are they afraid of?
I think admitting having made a mistake is a sign of greatness and largeness and makes them appear more 'human' and less profit oriented.

But thanks again for your post. Very appreciated. I like healthy discussions without the need of name calling.

Tony's Table Tennis
11-25-2017, 02:06 PM
That is the problem
some one don't agree, then they are labeled haters or troll

So one forum member's father is a distributor for two brands
I'm a distributor for 10 brands
Throughout the years, there are no problems - it just that logistical companies has since become more stricter (just like commercial airlines). It is illegal to carry celluloid balls onto airplanes - thus you also can't airfreight it.
Sea freight is still possible

I guess NZ customs law is special, but I don't really have customs issues on cellu balls

hater or troll, but I was the first person in TTD to tell this forum that celluloid did cause factory fires (i'm more than just a keyboard warrior or troll or hater, I'm very well in the sport with connections in factories, national bodies, international bodies etc etc)

I would say, from an environmental part, the cellu change is good
But ITTF was never ready for the force change.
The result - fans pocket hurting (yes I can sell more balls as a shop, but it is not right what ITTF is doing)

1) shortage of balls
2) balls was never ready for mass production (breaks easily)
3) pricing justification is not fair. Should ITTF be the good man as some hope them to be, they should of regulate 300-500% increase of pricing with rule changes. But then again, licensing cost to use the ITTF approved logo isn't cheap either.

Back to world tour
I know many that hardly breaks even by taking part - it is a huge financial strain to compete
If the seeding is off, then a lot of disappointment tier 2 or 3 of your top 100 would just be knocked out at round 1 by facing a top 10 player, whereby in the old ranking it would be only the 2nd up. This thus means they will go home with no money (not even to cover airfare)
So yeah, your China's and Japans who have endless cash for TT, can do 12 events a year. Then these two country would be 80% of the top 30 (just look at juniors ranking)

TTHopeful
11-25-2017, 02:22 PM
What do USA TT mean on Facebook this is correct?

14760

rainneverever
11-25-2017, 03:45 PM
What do USA TT mean on Facebook this is correct?

That is the ranking of World Tour standing points for Grand Finals.
For world ranking, it is by months not by events.

Suga D
11-25-2017, 04:13 PM
That is the problem
some one don't agree, then they are labeled haters or troll

So one forum member's father is a distributor for two brands
I'm a distributor for 10 brands
Throughout the years, there are no problems - it just that logistical companies has since become more stricter (just like commercial airlines). It is illegal to carry celluloid balls onto airplanes - thus you also can't airfreight it.
Sea freight is still possible

I guess NZ customs law is special, but I don't really have customs issues on cellu balls

hater or troll, but I was the first person in TTD to tell this forum that celluloid did cause factory fires (i'm more than just a keyboard warrior or troll or hater, I'm very well in the sport with connections in factories, national bodies, international bodies etc etc)

I would say, from an environmental part, the cellu change is good
But ITTF was never ready for the force change.
The result - fans pocket hurting (yes I can sell more balls as a shop, but it is not right what ITTF is doing)

1) shortage of balls
2) balls was never ready for mass production (breaks easily)
3) pricing justification is not fair. Should ITTF be the good man as some hope them to be, they should of regulate 300-500% increase of pricing with rule changes. But then again, licensing cost to use the ITTF approved logo isn't cheap either.

Back to world tour
I know many that hardly breaks even by taking part - it is a huge financial strain to compete
If the seeding is off, then a lot of disappointment tier 2 or 3 of your top 100 would just be knocked out at round 1 by facing a top 10 player, whereby in the old ranking it would be only the 2nd up. This thus means they will go home with no money (not even to cover airfare)
So yeah, your China's and Japans who have endless cash for TT, can do 12 events a year. Then these two country would be 80% of the top 30 (just look at juniors ranking)

Tony, i hope you know my post wasn't addressed towards you. I don't know why you put yourself in that bracket. Your not hiding behind unknown identity opposed to many hatespreaders on the web.

I mean just look at the comments underneath ITTF YouTube vids or on FB or actually even here on TTD as well.
Many people are quite handy with namecalling, accusations, etc...
Most of the times not very productive.

As i said, nothing against a healthy and lively discussion but people should stay respectful then probably they would be heard more...

Just saying.

Tony's Table Tennis
11-25-2017, 04:14 PM
ITTF and USATT both made this mistake
They each had "world ranking" which is incorrect
as Rain said, it is world tour standings (of which such yearly ranking existing when it was still called Pro tour)

The world tour standing is really for grand finals

Tony's Table Tennis
11-25-2017, 04:17 PM
Tony, i hope you know my post wasn't addressed towards you. I don't know why you put yourself in that bracket. Your not hiding behind unknown identity opposed to many hatespreaders on the web.

I mean just look at the comments underneath ITTF YouTube vids or on FB or actually even here on TTD as well.
Many people are quite handy with namecalling, accusations, etc...
Most of the times not very productive.

As i said, nothing against a healthy and lively discussion but people should stay respectful then probably they would be heard more...

Just saying.

all good, wasn't directed at you
directed at who ever feels that about me
I like to critise and I like to give credit, both where due

I'm also eager to see where this ranking goes, but I already know some players have headaches.
I could just become like Junior ranking with Japanese players everywhere, because they have tons of funding until 2020 to take part in internationals

sktrdie
12-04-2017, 07:22 PM
Does anybody know what happened to Xu Xin's ranking? He seems missing but played and won the last tournament (Swedish Open).

rainneverever
12-04-2017, 09:50 PM
He did not attend any tournament from Jul to Oct. Therefore his ranking was hidden in Nov due to 4-month without activity.
As he played Swedish Open, his ranking was activated and will show up in Dec issue of ranking which will be released on Dec 6.
XX's ranking points are 2994 in Nov although hidden, below Dima's points of 3011 (#3). Dima will get more bonus points from German Open than XX's bonus points from Swedish Open. Dima shall get more rating points beating FZD than XX beating FZD. Therefore, Dima will still be #3 in Dec and XX #4.

Does anybody know what happened to Xu Xin's ranking? He seems missing but played and won the last tournament (Swedish Open).

TTHopeful
12-04-2017, 10:02 PM
Will Dima be number 1 after Grand Finals?

rainneverever
12-04-2017, 10:10 PM
As long as Dima does not lose in the first round, he will be #1 in Jan no matter what result he and FZD have in Grand Finals. If Dima indeed loses in the first round, FZD has to win the champion to be #1; otherwise Dima will still be #1.


Will Dima be number 1 after Grand Finals?