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View Full Version : Why some player dint like anti and pimple player



Arif panamera
12-25-2017, 08:50 AM
Hye all ... I don't understand why there are few players who look down on the player player anti spin also pimple player..

Some call them coward, ...

Some even thought they use the pimple or anti because don't know to receive serve from the opponent.

Do they not know anti pimple also has its own art ... the unique art of ... their own toil to had themselves.

It is not professional for me that may look cynical to anti pimple player and..

Yes, I am a anti player.. I voiced my disappointment in. ..




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countrybread
12-25-2017, 09:07 AM
I knew an anti-spin player who slowly developed his craft until he became recognized as the top player in his state. It didn't hurt that he was also a very physically fit athlete and intensely competitive. It also didn't hurt that no one else used anti-spin except him. Out of curiosity, I started looking up anti-spin information and couldn't find very much. Even Larry Hodge's Tactics book has scant information. But we need variety in table tennis so I wish anti-spin players good luck and, no offense, I hope I never play you. Haha!

UpSideDownCarl
12-25-2017, 09:19 AM
http://www.gregsttpages.com/articles3/53-articles/long-pimples/87-long-pimples-for-beginners

Greg Letts has some decent information on long pips and antispin.

yoass
12-25-2017, 09:25 AM
Hye all ... I don't understand why there are few players who look down on the player player anti spin also pimple player..

Some call them coward, ...

Some even thought they use the pimple or anti because don't know to receive serve from the opponent.

Do they not know anti pimple also has its own art ... the unique art of ... their own toil to had themselves.

It is not professional for me that may look cynical to anti pimple player and..

Yes, I am a anti player.. I voiced my disappointment in. ..




As is said elsewhere, variety the spice of life is.

Moreover, anti and pimples-out rubbers do offer different possibilities and challenges, both to those that use them and those that meet them in matchplay.

Yes, they can be disturbing and break your rhythm, but with most opponents I’ve encountered relying on these aspects they did so for want of masquerading a weakness. Add to this that the material itself imposes its limits and has exploitable disadvantages, the challenge becomes not merely outgunning the opponent, but finding that tactic that turns his strength into a weakness.

Once you do that, the table turns in your advantage. And all it takes is the willingness to gain an understanding of the effects these rubbers have – and experience playing it. Practice

I once encountered a much higher-rated opponent in a tournament. Still recovering from injury, my FH topspin was not sustainable against his LP blocks and chops. However, slow, spinless balls into wherever his LP were (he twiddled) forced many errors on his part, and I won without breaking a sweat. It disturbed me to win that way, and still feel like that; like many, I much prefer killing it over leading my oppo into unforced error country.

Arif panamera
12-25-2017, 09:35 AM
As is saud elsewhere, variety the spice of life is.

Moreover, anti and pimples-out rubbers do offer different possibilities and challenges, both to those that use them and those that meet them in matchplay.

Yes, they can be disturbing and break your rhythm, but with most opponents I’ve encountered relying on these aspects they did so for want of masquerading a weakness. Add to this that the material itself imposes its limits and has exploitable disadvantages, the challenge becomes not merely outgunning the opponent, but finding that tactic that turns his strength into a weakness.

Once you do that, the table turns in your advantage. And all it takes is the willingness to gain an understanding of the effects these rubbers have – and experience playing it. Practice

I once encountered a much higher-rated opponent in a tournament. Still recovering from injury, my FH topspin was not sustainable against his LP blocks and chops. However, slow, spinless balls into wherever his LP were (he twiddled) forced many errors on his oart, and I won without breaking a sweat. It disturbed me to win that way, and still feel that way; like mant, I much prefer killing it over leading my oppo into unforced error country.


Hye Yoass

your statement is true and some a part of them is originally inverted but because like to hide their weaknesses and also goes the anti and pimple ... it was so desperate and so sad ...




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Baal
12-25-2017, 12:46 PM
The last two American players to reach the world top 30 were anti players on one side. Back in the 80s., before the two cokor rule. You give up a lot with anti and nowadays it would probably put a ceiling on your development. Rare styles can be effective especially at low to mid amateur levels. People will complain but so what? If it helps you, use it.

Baal
12-25-2017, 12:52 PM
As for some people switching to anti or LP to cover a weakness, especially in serve return, there is no denying that this is true in many cases. However it only helps those players up to certain level and a decent server will easily make them pay for it. There are many ways to deal with those kinds of rubbers,. You need to have good control of the depth of your serve.

yoass
12-25-2017, 04:32 PM
The last two American players to reach the world top 30 were anti players on one side. Back in the 80s., before the two cokor rule. You give up a lot with anti and nowadays it would probably put a ceiling on your development. Rare styles can be effective especially at low to mid amateur levels. People will complain but so what? If it helps you, use it.

I remember John Hilton vividly. Black and black, stamping or grinting when hitting. Hard to tell what he hit with, and you could not watch the greats (Sécretin comes to mind) collapse in desperation without a cringe.

vvk1
12-25-2017, 04:47 PM
Hye all ... I don't understand why there are few players who look down on the player player anti spin also pimple player..

Some call them coward, ...

Some even thought they use the pimple or anti because don't know to receive serve from the opponent.

Do they not know anti pimple also has its own art ... the unique art of ... their own toil to had themselves.

It is not professional for me that may look cynical to anti pimple player and..

Yes, I am a anti player.. I voiced my disappointment in. ..


Most people who moan about pips or anti simply do not understand how to play against such rubber surfaces and also have no idea just how difficult it is and how much actual skill is required to use pips or anti effectively, especially as you encounter better and better opponents.

Hence the complaints about "ugly" playing style or lucky net balls, etc.

Just ignore them and enjoy easy wins.

tropical
12-25-2017, 06:02 PM
As a LP player my guess to the OP is it is either too easy or too difficult to play junk rubber players. But why do you care? I don't because I know some players love to play me for the above reasons ;).

DragonOwen
12-26-2017, 02:45 PM
In my local table tennis community there is a lot of players that openly don't like players with pimples or anti rubbers, they say mostly "it's not table tennis!!" "they should play among themselves!", some of them even forfeits matches against players with pimples/anti rubbers... There are even a regular (every week) tournament which doesn't allow to participate players with pimples/anti rubbers (I never was there, itsgoes against my principles, this is a form of discrimination IMO)... IMO all this player's don't want to learn or even think when they play, for them table tennis is simple, most of them plays total attacking style with no compromise, almost no "soft" control play at all, and of course the overall level of this players is not high... it's just IMHO table tennis is not that simple, so this people will never advance with the way they are thinking, I'm kinda pity them... that is only IMHO though, I played LP for about a year, tried anti, played with MP and SP, but for now returned to inverted rubbers and at a moment I'm having great troubles playing against pimples/anti rubbers, but that is entirely MY problem and it's for ME to solve...

P.S. Sorry for my bad english...

Xylit
12-26-2017, 04:53 PM
As for the "coward" thing. First of all I'd never call anyone names due to their playing style. But players exist who change to pips because they suck so hard with "regular" rubbers so they change as a last resort. They have no idea about how to play with pips but still win a match here and there against opponents who have no clue how to play against pips. That is why some people say that playing pips is only for people that cannot play table tennis with normal rubbers. Sometimes it is true. Most times not.

And if you lose against someone who has no clue of what he is doing, well, I guess you must be even worse then :p

allencorn
12-26-2017, 06:06 PM
According to some of this logic, world class choppers are "masking" a weakness because they play with pips on one side. I don't think that is true. I think many who play with pips, anti, or whatever rubber, do so because it fits their style and preference. There are many types of inverted rubber, too, with fairly substantial differences. Imagine if people would say, "Oh, I don't want to play you, you play with that fast Chinese rubber. You should play with more traditional rubber."

A friend of mine used to say, "It is just a ball with spin. It doesn't really matter how the spin got there - deal with it."

NextLevel
12-26-2017, 06:29 PM
"Oh, I don't want to play you, you play with that fast Chinese rubber. You should play with more traditional rubber."

A friend of mine used to say, "It is just a ball with spin. It doesn't really matter how the spin got there - deal with it."

This is so true it is not funny. Whenever I see someone using Hurricane or Tenergy, I want to complain. Seriously. Especially Hurricane.

As for spin, even world class players who have been playing all their lives sometimes make mistakes in spin read on serve return. If it can happen to them, it can happen to you.

Xylit
12-26-2017, 06:31 PM
According to some of this logic, world class choppers are "masking" a weakness because they play with pips on one side. I don't think that is true.
If you are referring to my post, I have said that SOMETIMES it is true, but MOST TIMES not.

Moreover, we have a young man in our club who struggled hard to learn a decent backhand. Therefore our trainer decided to give him long pips on his backhand. This guy right now is our best player with a German TTR of 2000. Add the 300-400 points and you have your estimated USATT of about 2400. He is awesome with pips but at the very beginning they were meant to "hide" his backhand weakness. Sure, no doubt he would be an awesome player right now even without pips as well.

tropical
12-26-2017, 07:32 PM
As for the "coward" thing. First of all I'd never call anyone names due to their playing style. But players exist who change to pips because they suck so hard with "regular" rubbers so they change as a last resort. They have no idea about how to play with pips but still win a match here and there against opponents who have no clue how to play against pips. That is why some people say that playing pips is only for people that cannot play table tennis with normal rubbers. Sometimes it is true. Most times not.

And if you lose against someone who has no clue of what he is doing, well, I guess you must be even worse then :p

I find this post pathetic. I myself could still play inverted very well, as good as LP, at least in the 1st 40 years until my arm/wrist/body too slow to play aggressively. So I decided to slow my game a bit and LP suited me well to handle young and quick players.

The reason people choose a certain style because it suits them; certain strokes need inverted some need SP, anti, LP. Be it attacking with 2 wings BH and FH or chopping with LP and attacking with inverted FH or chopping/blocking with LP or attacking with SP and BH with LP, or you name it ... these styles suit certain people.

Please don't call them they try to hide a weakness. Weakness so what? Can you play LP so that you can beat others? You can't, right? we may say you have a weakness against LP player and if we see you in a tournament we will use LP to beat you. The best way to deal with LP is to play more with them then you will find a way to beat them consistently like many folks here already said. It is pathetic to say this person has a weakness to hide. A good tactic is play more against the LP side! We LP players know this LP side is the weakness and must try to adapt to it.

brokenball
12-26-2017, 07:37 PM
Arif, learn to twiddle and people will hate playing you. You opponents will have to always be paying attention to your BH rubber that hit the ball. Difference between a slow backspin anti return and a fast top spin inverted return is extreme and will win many points for the twiddler when the opponent assumes wrong spin on the ball.

vvk1
12-26-2017, 08:26 PM
This is so true it is not funny. Whenever I see someone using Hurricane or Tenergy, I want to complain. Seriously. Especially Hurricane.

As for spin, even world class players who have been playing all their lives sometimes make mistakes in spin read on serve return. If it can happen to them, it can happen to you.

Just out of curiosity, what makes Hurricane so relatively troubling for you?

pgpg
12-26-2017, 08:28 PM
In my local table tennis community there is a lot of players that openly don't like players with pimples or anti rubbers, they say mostly "it's not table tennis!!" "they should play among themselves!", some of them even forfeits matches against players with pimples/anti rubbers... There are even a regular (every week) tournament which doesn't allow to participate players with pimples/anti rubbers (I never was there, itsgoes against my principles, this is a form of discrimination IMO)... IMO all this player's don't want to learn or even think when they play, for them table tennis is simple, most of them plays total attacking style with no compromise, almost no "soft" control play at all, and of course the overall level of this players is not high... it's just IMHO table tennis is not that simple, so this people will never advance with the way they are thinking, I'm kinda pity them... that is only IMHO though, I played LP for about a year, tried anti, played with MP and SP, but for now returned to inverted rubbers and at a moment I'm having great troubles playing against pimples/anti rubbers, but that is entirely MY problem and it's for ME to solve...

P.S. Sorry for my bad english...


Your English is fine and easy to understand. Also - nice to see you here (I've read your thread on ttsport.ru, all 70+ pages of it :cool:)

NextLevel
12-26-2017, 08:31 PM
Just out of curiosity, what makes Hurricane so relatively troubling for you?

The slow release of the ball. Throws off my timing especially on pushes. Sometimes the arc does as well, as it comes through the table with more spin than the arc tends to communicate until I adjust.

Baal
12-26-2017, 11:50 PM
These rubbers are legal. It is an important part of the sport. Every inverted player who encounters such a player should be happy. It is either a learning experience or maybe an easy win depending on who you and your opponent are. All good.

Tony's Table Tennis
12-27-2017, 07:58 AM
These rubbers are legal. It is an important part of the sport. Every inverted player who encounters such a player should be happy. It is either a learning experience or maybe an easy win depending on who you and your opponent are. All good.

Yep
I think those people who tends to complain about anti/pips etc, tend to complain a lot in general.
So I think it is not the equipment - it is the person

next they will complain about lefties, cpen, twiddling, the colour of your shirt, wall, floor, light, table, noise, choing etc
I think most of the time, these moaners are merely using it as a tactic to mess around with the opponent's head

Tony's Table Tennis
12-27-2017, 08:04 AM
In my local table tennis community there is a lot of players that openly don't like players with pimples or anti rubbers, they say mostly "it's not table tennis!!" "they should play among themselves!", some of them even forfeits matches against players with pimples/anti rubbers... There are even a regular (every week) tournament which doesn't allow to participate players with pimples/anti rubbers (I never was there, itsgoes against my principles, this is a form of discrimination IMO)... IMO all this player's don't want to learn or even think when they play, for them table tennis is simple, most of them plays total attacking style with no compromise, almost no "soft" control play at all, and of course the overall level of this players is not high... it's just IMHO table tennis is not that simple, so this people will never advance with the way they are thinking, I'm kinda pity them... that is only IMHO though, I played LP for about a year, tried anti, played with MP and SP, but for now returned to inverted rubbers and at a moment I'm having great troubles playing against pimples/anti rubbers, but that is entirely MY problem and it's for ME to solve...

P.S. Sorry for my bad english...

discrimination will always limit growth
so if one day, those players who discriminate against anti/pips play them, guess what - they will loose as they don't have experience/skills to play against them

you can't change discrimination habbits, I guess you can only find other people to play with.

another reason for discrimination is that those people are amateurs and unmature
if anyone is serious about table tennis, playing against anti/pips is very important aspect of the game.
I even build up 2 SP, 1 MP, 3 LP setups to use when I train juniors (its difficult for me as I'm a fast attacking CPen player who hates balls lasting too long, and with these setups, I need to hold patience and that is difficult for me :p)

Loopadoop
12-27-2017, 02:53 PM
The argument, a lot of those players use, I just play for fun, I don't enjoy playing against junk rubbers.

suds79
12-27-2017, 07:02 PM
As one who has played plenty of both. Duel inverted & combo bats, just like anything, there are pluses & minuses with both.

I enjoy the freedom to play aggressively almost any shot with dual inverted. At the same time, I like turning the game into a more tactical thinking game that pip play brings. Particularly if you can twiddle. There are those out there who just like to turn their brain off & hit the ball. I generally feel it's these people who don't like "junk rubbers" because then they have to think vs just play and they simply don't understand what's going on. They get frustrated with unforced errors and that's where silly comments can come out. If you're a junk rubber player, you learn quickly to not let these effect you whatsoever. Just say GG and go about your business.

On the whole if one choose that style because it fits them best or if they're covering up a weakness, does it really matter? lol. I mean really who cares what people call you or think about you. This isn't high school. Just play. A moster FH loop for a winner counts just the same as a pips chop that opponent puts into the net. Just one is more impressive to look at than the other. Again... Who cares?

I personally like the variety as that's what I find keeps the game interesting. The game would be boring if everybody played shakehand duel inverted.

berndtjgmann
12-27-2017, 09:47 PM
To pip or not to pip: that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous comments from one's fellow players or to take up pips or anti- against a sea of inverted and, through a few victories, overcome them, and then...ay, that's the rub...

Half-arsed parodies of Shakespearian soliloquies aside, this decision, given the numerous beyond numerous types of rubbers available to today's players, is one of no great insignificance.

If you choose to use long pips, medium pips, short pips, or antispin rubber on one side of your blade, you will most likely have to learn how to use them through trial and error against your opponents, as there are virtually no coaches who can or will teach you how to use these rubbers for maximum effectiveness.

Antispin rubber at the world class level has not been effective to my knowledge since the time of the American players Dan Seemiller and Eric Boggan some 40+ years ago. Today's antispin rubbers can, I suspect, be effective if used by a capable amateur player who has a sound backhand block and a decent backhand chop to go along with it.

Long pips are another animal altogether. They can be extremely frustrating to competitive players who do not understand what they can and can't do, and totally bewilder newcomers to the competitive sport. The same is true for inverted rubbers, which take time and practice to even begin to master a wee bit, and again are not user friendly to newcomers who have never played with them or have played with recreational rackets providing limited speed and limited spin.

Table tennis is, and has been for several decades unbalanced, and biased in favor of an attacking approach, discouraging players who haven't the time to become comfortable with such an approach, and in addition lack a coach or a somewhat knowledgeable practice partner to show them how to serve, push aggressively, loop, and block. The player who chooses to use long pips, short pips, or antispin rubber is presently pretty much left on his or her own.

Der_Echte
12-27-2017, 11:53 PM
One can go back even a decade ago and see Der_Echte makes a stand for pips players to choose and slap on the up bats whatever scheize they are of a mind to... need every player in this sport...

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Loopadoop
12-28-2017, 02:29 AM
I play double inverted with my stronger hand. I play a long pips BH with my off hand. I tell them the long pips are masking my BH weakness. I tell them how to play and serve vs the long pips. I let them serve illegal to the long pips or my 4H inverted. They have no argument with me now.

Simas
12-28-2017, 08:02 AM
In my local table tennis community there is a lot of players that openly don't like players with pimples or anti rubbers, they say mostly "it's not table tennis!!" "they should play among themselves!", some of them even forfeits matches against players with pimples/anti rubbers...

That's should be enough for me to go and change to pimples :) To annoy such "players".
As it was said in this thread, if someone can't beat the pips it theirs fault, not the opponents.
There is one player in my cub who plays with pips and I am always struggling against him and must consciously think what I am doing or I loose it. But that's exactly why I like playing against him.


There are even a regular (every week) tournament which doesn't allow to participate players with pimples/anti rubbers (I never was there, itsgoes against my principles, this is a form of discrimination IMO)...

That's crazy...