Carbon blades - are they better?

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Can anyone point me towards any evidence that carbon blades are superior to all-wood? I'm looking for independent scientific data rather than subjective opinions. Thanks for any help.
 
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Superior in a way equals inferior in another way
I guess you first need to understand the subjective opinion that it is a scale, when one side is higher, the other side is lower. I'm sure even there is data to back my subjective opinion, I will leave it to the guys that holds or willing to find such data. imo, experience outweigh data
 
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I would not use words like "better" or "superior/inferior". I would just say that they are highly prioritized because of several reasons, one of the most important is that their characteristics fit much better the modern meta game.
But like Tony said, better in certain aspects making them worse in other. It is a give and take. it depends on what somebody is searching for in a blade.
 
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Thanks for that Tony. Sounds like you are sitting on the fence, but I'm pleased to have a reply so quickly after posting my first question on TTD!
 
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I would not use words like "better" or "superior/inferior". I would just say that they are highly prioritized because of several reasons, one of the most important is that their characteristics fit much better the modern meta game.
But like Tony said, better in certain aspects making them worse in other. It is a give and take. it depends on what somebody is searching for in a blade.
Very interesting - thanks. I haven't heard that term "meta game" before, but I'd like to know if this is different from table tennis....
 
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Thanks for that Tony. Sounds like you are sitting on the fence, but I'm pleased to have a reply so quickly after posting my first question on TTD!

you are welcome

I guess if you shared a bit more about yourself and the reason of your question, experience people here can assist you find the answer you want.

There is way too many questions that relate to "why this is better than that"
I for example prefer wood over carbon, and I can find you tons of "data" that prove my point
But then any one else can provide the total opposite

table tennis is a complex game with very complex equipment to understand.
wood / rubber pairing for example will alter your data results of carbon vs wood
 
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Can anyone point me towards any evidence that carbon blades are superior to all-wood? I'm looking for independent scientific data rather than subjective opinions. Thanks for any help.

You’re chasing ghosts here.

The question contains an assumption. It assumes a complete partial order is induced by the relation ‘superior to’.

This entails comparability, ie either X is superior to Y or Y is superior to X. Note that ‘superior’ is a rather absolute notion.

Out here in the real world, neither notion of absolute nor comparability holds water.

Counterexample for ‘absolute’ is: blade X may have desirable properties in one aspect, and lesser ones in another - in relation. There is a correlation between speed (desirable often but not always) and control. Flexibility helps in some part if the game, rigidity in another. And composites typically ofter a larger or less pronounce sweet spot - but give less feedback. You get certain things at the expense of others. And which tradeoff is the superior one, then? None. It depends.

Comparabilty is indefensible for similar reasons. X may have more speed, where Y might have more gears.

You can of course recreate the marketing fallacy here. It has the structure: most (or many) people bought (use) X, therefore X is the best (very good).

You can do that in many ways. Following that reasoning, you’re likely to find some popular affordable blade with Friendship on it as the superior blade, in one path of reasoning. In another, zooming in on the broader body of top players, you’ll find Viscarias with Tenergies as the superior thing du jour: and if you narrow that down, you’re more likely arriving at a DHS blade with H3 covered in pixie dust a the superior item.

It’s a mistake. There is nothing superior, it’s all messy and fluid tradeoffs and interdependencies.
 
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I guess the mytt is the one that op is looking for
I only saw few lines and I closed the page lol, I guess I'm more a coach/hand's on and not a science/data person, that is too much reading for me

I actually think that the elasticity indices used in ttgearlab's analysis are easier to understand. There are also some posts by zeio on mytt on the subject.
 
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You’re chasing ghosts here.

The question contains an assumption. It assumes an complete partial order is induced by the relation ‘superior to’.

This entails comparability, ie either X is superior to Y or Y is superior to X. Note that ‘superior’ is a rather absolute notion.

Out here in the real world, neither notion of absolute nor comparability hold.

Counterexample for ‘absolute’ is: blade X may have desirable properties in one aspect, and lesser ones in another - in relation. There is a correlation between speed (desirable often but not always) and control. Flexibility helps in some part if the game, rigidity in another. And composites typically ofter a larger or less pronounce sweet spot - but give less feedback. You get certain things at the expense of others. And which tradeoff is the superior one, then? None. It depends.

Comparabilty is indefensible for similar reasons. X may have more speed, where Y might have more gears.

You can of course recreate the marketing fallacy here. It has the structure: most (or many) people bought (use) X, therefore X is the best (very good).

You can do that in many ways. Following that reasoning, you’re likely to find some popular affordable blade with Friendship on it as the superior blade, in one path of reasoning. In another, zooming in on the broader body of top players, you’ll find Viscarias with Tenergies as the superior thing du jour: and if you narrow that down, you’re more likely arriving at a DHS blade with H3 covered in pixie dust a the superior item.

It’s a mistake. There is nothing superior, it’s all messy and fluid tradeoffs and interdependencies.

what I said, but 10 x more better English
I guess a better and more direct question should be in the lines of - in what way of superiority does OP want to find data for
 
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Very interesting - thanks. I haven't heard that term "meta game" before, but I'd like to know if this is different from table tennis....


Meta game, is a term with a specific meaning i used because i think it fits well when we talk about style and the developement of a game.
If we are willing to look at table tennis as a game, the term "meta game" could be very well used for it. I don't know exactly where the origin of this word lies. I heard it in e-sports. Usually it is used to express the most efficient or successfull Strategy towards victory. Some tactics and stretgies become mainstream for the reason that they are the most efficient and successfull. They can be refered to as "following the meta".

A change of the general conditions of a game i.e. introduction of the plastic ball affects the meta (what is most successfull) more towards speed, taking away a bit spin. And players with a certain style i.e. Lin Gaoyuan are favored because their style comforts the Meta game. And of course going on topic here again it affects the use of equipment too.
One of the reasons that At the moment pro players favouring carbon is that they need to be able to generate more power with their equipment, carbon comforts that, so it follows the meta, if you want.
 
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Superior is what feels superior in your hand when you strike a ball with it. I hate the feel of carbon blades, hate it. But what to me signals playing with a frying pan, to others signals large sweet spot. My all wood is superior for me. His carbon/composite is superior for him.

I'm with Tony on this one. Scientific tests can tell you evverything about a blade, except fot the one thing that matters.
 
At least choose a carbon arylate or aramid composite instead of having a pure carbon blade if you have the skills. Nowadays, the rubber can compensate with the speed even if you are.just usong an all wood blade.
 
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Superior is what feels superior in your hand when you strike a ball with it. I hate the feel of carbon blades, hate it. But what to me signals playing with a frying pan, to others signals large sweet spot. My all wood is superior for me. His carbon/composite is superior for him.

I'm with Tony on this one. Scientific tests can tell you evverything about a blade, except fot the one thing that matters.


I don't remember you using an all wood blade when I first met you. And I also remember you using a 1 ply hinoki for a while before a coach forced you to use an All wood 5 ply ALL+ to play (and you have stuck with them ever since). Acquired taste based on success in your most intensive training period?
 
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I’d like to share some comments from Chinese National team’s coach Qin Zhiqian, primary coach of Ma Long. When he was asked this question, he said right now it’ about 50/50 uses of wood vs carbon in chines national team. In the past definitely wood blades. He said the moment of carbon blades hitting the ball, they are faster than wood. But wood blades is a little bit more powerful and has better control. The players always try different blades and find whichever felt best.

Sorry my English is not that good and I just tried to translate what he said.
 
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