PDA

View Full Version : Blade suggestion for in table play- long pips ox



leevittha
01-16-2018, 01:06 AM
Dear all,
I would like to ask for blade suggestion for in table blocking and deceptive play. I am currently using inverted rubber on the forehand and sanwei code long pips ox on the backhand with clipper cr,staying mostly within 1m of the table and blocking.Thank you in advance.

Regards
Lee

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

tropical
01-16-2018, 01:59 AM
I use a 5ply all wood, FH inverted, BH OX and it is great.

leevittha
01-16-2018, 02:48 AM
Hi.Thanks.Any commercially available one would u suggest?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

tropical
01-16-2018, 02:52 AM
Mine is all+ to off homemade by one member in this forum. However, there are many 5ply wood rackets are available like stiga, butterfly, yasaka .. Just get a cheap all+ 5ply (no more than $30) and try if you like it.

Ndragon
01-16-2018, 10:58 AM
Dear all,
I would like to ask for blade suggestion for in table blocking and deceptive play. I am currently using inverted rubber on the forehand and sanwei code long pips ox on the backhand with clipper cr,staying mostly within 1m of the table and blocking.Thank you in advance.

Regards
Lee

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

oh wow very interesting that you're using the clipper CR. Plz can you tell me more how the pips behave with this blade?
I am || close to going long pips BH and was wondering if anyone actually uses pips on -OFF-OFF bats.

DragonOwen
01-16-2018, 11:23 AM
I am || close to going long pips BH and was wondering if anyone actually uses pips on -OFF-OFF bats.
When I was playing with long pimples, after trying a quite a bunch of def blades I understood that it's not for me, so I found off- blade that works for me with playing long pimples, it's Butterfly HADRAW SK blade, I found it very universal blade, I even played defense far from of the table with it quite often, as for the play close to the table it's just was easy to play all type of play comfortable and with great control... but after I switched to middle pimples (and then short pimples) I found the blade that even better, it's Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC, of course it's too fast for comfortable play with long pimples though... just IMHO...

leevittha
01-16-2018, 11:27 AM
oh wow very interesting that you're using the clipper CR. Plz can you tell me more how the pips behave with this blade?
I am || close to going long pips BH and was wondering if anyone actually uses pips on -OFF-OFF bats.I find it a bit hard to control in table shots with the offensive blades e.g.clipper cr.Abit too bouncy for me.But I have read in the Chinese table tennis magazines that some pro players are actually using this combo.Would like to know if anyone keen to share their experience with other long pips blade here.thanks.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Ndragon
01-16-2018, 01:00 PM
When I was playing with long pimples, after trying a quite a bunch of def blades I understood that it's not for me, so I found off- blade that works for me with playing long pimples, it's Butterfly HADRAW SK blade, I found it very universal blade, I even played defense far from of the table with it quite often, as for the play close to the table it's just was easy to play all type of play comfortable and with great control... but after I switched to middle pimples (and then short pimples) I found the blade that even better, it's Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC, of course it's too fast for comfortable play with long pimples though... just IMHO...

Interesting....I have only tried on a Matsushita and Stiga ALL classic. Was very sceptical to try it on my clipper

Ndragon
01-16-2018, 01:02 PM
I find it a bit hard to control in table shots with the offensive blades e.g.clipper cr.Abit too bouncy for me.But I have read in the Chinese table tennis magazines that some pro players are actually using this combo.Would like to know if anyone keen to share their experience with other long pips blade here.thanks.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Interesting to hear this. I wouldn't be playing close to the table but of course the first 2 or 3 shots are close to the table. How did you find it for long pushes? too quick? Too fast for serve return?

DragonOwen
01-16-2018, 01:32 PM
Interesting....I have only tried on a Matsushita and Stiga ALL classic. Was very sceptical to try it on my clipper
But, keep in mind that I not very good player though and I play even worse when I played with long pimples (I hope that now I play a bit better than a couple a years ago... I returned in table tennis after 20 years just about 4 years ago and at that time it was like I was total beginner, no memory whatsoever from table tennis practice in my childhood)... here are one of my matches a couple of year ago when I played Hadraw SK with long pimples (I am in red/black uniform):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWMhVf8cLX8

Ndragon
01-16-2018, 02:07 PM
But, keep in mind that I not very good player though and I play even worse when I played with long pimples (I hope that now I play a bit better than a couple a years ago... I returned in table tennis after 20 years just about 4 years ago and at that time it was like I was total beginner, no memory whatsoever from table tennis practice in my childhood)... here are one of my matches a couple of year ago when I played Hadraw SK with long pimples (I am in red/black uniform):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWMhVf8cLX8 You look like you're handling it quite well tbh! Would be interesting to see you now and specifically with the clipper cr and long pips. You take the ball very early like a push blocker style. What about for the usual chop like returns? I feel like if someone gave me a decent topspin loop, long pips on my clipper would just fly...but it's just assumption

yogi_bear
01-16-2018, 03:32 PM
Try stiga oc cr or primorac off-

DragonOwen
01-17-2018, 08:29 AM
You look like you're handling it quite well tbh! Would be interesting to see you now and specifically with the clipper cr and long pips. You take the ball very early like a push blocker style. What about for the usual chop like returns? I feel like if someone gave me a decent topspin loop, long pips on my clipper would just fly...but it's just assumption
Thanks, but still I think that my play is pretty bad... Didn't have an experience with Clipper, sorry, and for last half-year I come back to playing two inverted rubbers, for now don't plan to go back to pimples, and even if I eventually go back it will be short pimples... As for chop like returns, Hadraw SK worked for me almost as good as any def blade, BUT only if talking about pimple rubber with sponge thicker than 0.7 (for me 1.0-1.2 is optimal... on a video above black rubberthat I playing is probably TSP Curl P-H or P1r with 1.0-1.2 thick sponge), is we talk about OX, then yeah, the ball will fly from Hadraw (but there might be someone who could have such a soft and good "feeling" in his hands, that he could handle the ball enen in this situation, but it's a rare talent probably, I don't have it...), actually I think that with not very bouncy sponge it's possible to chop even with more faster blade and "not so long" pimples, here are a video part of my training a year ago when I tried to chop with Innerforce ALC blade and the piples rubber that I use on this video is probably TSP Millitall II with 1.0-1.2 thick sponge (I probably didn't used to this rubber on the video though, just getting used and trying what I can do with it...):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAKH0Kf42fE

But, of course in a real match with such a racket setup I didn't tend to play chop style of game, it was more or less like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZRuJ6f96aw


P.S. OFFTOPIC: Now my play is something like this with two inverted rubbers, if you interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCjcDchhq_Q

PiZa
01-17-2018, 09:12 AM
For deceptive play on table with long pips OX i suggest balsa blades. Donic Cayman is good for this style also Dr Neubauer Firewall Plus. Because you are playing inverted on forehand combi blades also could be good, such as Donic Alligator.

leevittha
01-17-2018, 09:27 AM
Interesting to hear this. I wouldn't be playing close to the table but of course the first 2 or 3 shots are close to the table. How did you find it for long pushes? too quick? Too fast for serve return?Hi Ndragon,I have problem keeping the balls short with the clipper cr combo.long pushes so far ok for me

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

DragonOwen
01-17-2018, 09:38 AM
For deceptive play on table with long pips OX i suggest balsa blades. Donic Cayman is good for this style also Dr Neubauer Firewall Plus. Because you are playing inverted on forehand combi blades also could be good, such as Donic Alligator.
I think for the close to the table block play Titan is the best blade from Dr. Neubauer, it's have very small rubber surface and it's very lite, also it's a combi blade (one side faster than the other), so IMO it's just made for this kind of play... I have this blade, didn't play much with it though, mostly had fun with it on some trainings and mostly used it with antispin rubber on BH, so while I had fun with it, my opponents was really frustrated, it's really super easy to block with it on the table with something like Nittaku Best Anti rubber, the ball just "dies" when it's flies to your opponent side of the table after your block, it's simply almost have no bounce after it, so it really make opponents gets frustrated ;) BTW also have Combination Effect blade from Dr. Neubauer, used to play a long time with it before I started to play Off- blades, I don't think that this blade is very good choice if your play is based close to the table and mostly on block, it's simply not very comfortable to play close to the table with a blade that have such large rubber surface, this blade is good when you chop in the middle/far zone from the table... IMHO

Ndragon
01-17-2018, 10:24 AM
Hi Ndragon,I have problem keeping the balls short with the clipper cr combo.long pushes so far ok for me

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

did you try any other blades? or only the clipper?

leevittha
01-17-2018, 10:30 AM
did you try any other blades? or only the clipper?Hi,I have tried other offensive blades e.g.dhs pg 7,tg7,tibhar samsonov pro and etc.But I don't see much improvement with any of them.Currently I am looking for other more controllable setup for long pips ox.Maybe I should invest on all-round or defensive wood instead

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Ndragon
01-17-2018, 10:49 AM
Hi,I have tried other offensive blades e.g.dhs pg 7,tg7,tibhar samsonov pro and etc.But I don't see much improvement with any of them.Currently I am looking for other more controllable setup for long pips ox.Maybe I should invest on all-round or defensive wood instead

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

I'm not really in position to tell you what are the better options but I have read a few times about the VKMO (Victas Koji Matsushita Offensive). or the orinigal also. For ALL blades I have only ever played around with the Stiga ALL classic. But I haven't played enough to give a worthy opinion.

Der_Echte
01-17-2018, 03:57 PM
You will discover that hardcore defensive long pips players are by far the most extreme Equipment Junkies trying to find that magical combination... and in a decade purchase every existing equipment twice over.

Good luck Dec player, hope you discover it before the end of 10 yrs and 75,000 USD in equipment expenditures.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Loopadoop
01-18-2018, 08:31 AM
Your best bet is an XVT Balsa Carbon 10mm plays all around
$18-25 depending where

I have 2 of them

MydasDiablo
06-01-2018, 07:07 AM
The answer to this question is highly dependant upon the pips you decide to use on your backhand and whether you mix chops in with loops/hits on your forehand.

Tensor pips such as D.TecS, Piranha, Kamikaze etc are very sensitive to blade speed and should only be used up to All+, possibly Off- if you have good hands (meaning you are good as softening your grip at the point of impact).

Hellfire, Dornenglanz I and Giant Dragon Talon are best with All to Off- blades for a pushblocking game, however they can be used with OFF blades as long as you chop block anything closer to the table and chop further from the table. If you chop on the forehand then you have to step back to Def to All+.

I play the chop block, chop, forehand loop/counterloop/hit game with Dornenglanz OX and found I could play with a Viscaria if I stuck to my tactics and loosened my grip when using the pips. Dornenglanz is the least sensitive pip I have used to blade speed. Hellfire was tough for me on anything with a harder outer ply above OFF- speed. I think this boils down to the stiffness of the pips, Dornenglanz has fairly stiff pips which forgive a faster blade up to a certain impact force, which I don't allow to be breached if I can help it by using soft hands. Hellfire and all the tensor pips are softer and bend easier so the hard and heavy plastic ball needs less force to bend them and get into the wood making them more sensitive to the speed of the blade.

I have had success with tensor pips and the S&T Zeus blade, Dr N. Titan and Joo, but for my game which relies on forehand attacks to win the point (good players tend to use the pips against you rather than give you free points by sticking it in the net or sending no spin pushes long) I prefer to use Dornenglanz on OFF blades. I am about to try the Clipper Oversize WRB to replace my Viscaria/Double Day Terminator as I think the Koto outer and carbon in those lessens my ability to dampen the speed on chop blocks closer to the table just that bit too much, and the Clipper won't be that different in terms of forehand speed.

Another tip, the new Sauer & Troger Super Stop rubber in 1.9mm can be used in combination with OFF and OFF+ blades and you can play LP strokes with it. If you don't chop a lot (although it chops pretty well) and rely more on push/chop blocking then this is a better option with the plastic ball than OX LP, much easier to hit with and distribute the balls to awkward angles, as well as dropping the ball short over the net to avoid getting killed. I think this Toni Hold kind of classic anti will be the new go to in the plastic era for pushblockers, OX LP still have their place for those that chop further back as much or more than they block at the table. Review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GmqW36ijZQ

Loopadoop
06-02-2018, 08:27 PM
Using my XVT Balsa Carbon 10mm, with long pips OX, I play close to the table mostly, very effective. For your offensive inverted side, it is better for consistency using hard sponge.

Der_Echte
06-03-2018, 08:20 AM
You will need to identify the most frequent and important shots or kind of ball you are trying for, then select equipment in the middle of that "Zone".

That "Zone" can be many different zones depending on what you are attempting.


Some pips players want the slowest thing out there, some go ALL, some go more. Korean OX punchblockers go OFF+++ (think Schlager Carbon) with OX BH and control rubber FH. They punch with BH, so they need as short a dwell as possible, so those fast, solid blades are the sweet spot for them, plus they don't spin, but step around power hit...


I know am OX player who tries to take it all off the bounce with his BH and use his grip pressure change to drop ball short or punch it deep... The OFF- kind of wood blades are great for him, but he has the touch to use faster or slower with pretty much the same result or level.


Think a bit about what you want to do and go middle of zone for whatever that is.

MydasDiablo
06-03-2018, 09:22 AM
Do the Korean punchblockers play shakehand grip?

Impressive use of the wrist if so, because punching with OX pips is not easy, the angle of the blade and contact point above the net has to be perfect because it travels in a straight line. I have seen penhold players play with this style very effectively because the grip lends itself to that shot on the backhand, for power and consistency of finding the right angle.

Loopadoop
06-03-2018, 03:29 PM
From what I have seen of the Korean long pips attackers, they look good at times, but still not that consistent, probably less than 40% winning the point.

Der_Echte
06-03-2018, 05:58 PM
Do the Korean punchblockers play shakehand grip?

Impressive use of the wrist if so, because punching with OX pips is not easy, the angle of the blade and contact point above the net has to be perfect because it travels in a straight line. I have seen penhold players play with this style very effectively because the grip lends itself to that shot on the backhand, for power and consistency of finding the right angle.

Most Korean OX players are O40 ladies using a very fast SH blade, control rubber on FH, and OX LP on BH. This lady in this vid is different as she has SP on FH. Korea OX Punch blockers pretty much poke or jab at the ball to get an error or wait for the high ball to step around and FH kill. They do not use a lot of wrist. However, the coach, Coach Yoo from YDJTTC teaches every possible shot of OX and he uses his wrist and arm very fluidly. (Second vid I post here.) They sometimes just stick the bat out there, loosen grip some, and just get the ball back... but they are pretty much trained to play aggressively with the OX.

This is from the weekly Thursday handicap club tourney. The guy spots her 2 points as he is one level higher classified. He is REAL different from most guys as he uses C-Pen with OX on FH.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_63ocsEw_M8&t=314s

Coach Yoo putting an OX rubber through some paces.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msh2yY2CyOI

Der_Echte
06-03-2018, 06:11 PM
From what I have seen of the Korean long pips attackers, they look good at times, but still not that consistent, probably less than 40% winning the point.

Not bad on you, but you have likely only seen vids of Div 4 and Div 5 players. 80-90 percent of players are in this class. Div 5 city runs from 1000 to 1300. Div 4 runs from 1300 to 1700 USATT level.

Even 1700 players have huge holes and will not be super consistent being aggressive. I think it is more of a level thing than an equipment thing. Even a 1700 2x inverted player trying to play like Ma Long is gunna look real inconsistent silly. OX players just LOVE opponents like that who will gift them free points and errors left and right.

Yamaguchi
07-28-2019, 10:54 AM
I know this is an old thread but i'd like to share my experience playing with a clipper like blade with ox pip which is tibhar force pro black. I was surprised when i first slapped an ox coming from a def blade. My ox rubber is jengking from pimpleholics. I really like the control of this blade with ox from slow to medium to medium fast and maybe upto fast drive/spin to my ox. Another advantage is that it gives me the speed needed to attack with the inverted side and blocking is superb since the blade is a bit stiff. The reversal is very decent too.
The downside is when i face a very fast loop drive or a flat drive. It tends to bounce very hard that my balls are going long but not so much.
This is so far the best setup I've tried for my play style but I'm still in search of a blade that is almost the same speed with clipper or a notch slower that has a capability to flex/absorb some speed when chopping or blocking with the ox side. So suggestions are welcome.
You can see some of my games on this link:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwjY6FodUatqIEyQjtRusZw

Loopadoop
07-28-2019, 11:36 AM
I have never played with your blade. The best blade I have used for blocking using OX is a thick balsa by far. I have used various other types of blades from defensive to offensive.