Trial C-pen?

steventt · Feb 6, 2018

Hello all! I play TT seriously for a half a year now and play shakehand, but I would like to try C-pen.

Why? I believe it may be suited for my play. My strongest play is close to the table push and fast loop. I also have a weird shakehand block when I get attacked on the BH side, I hold it in front of me tilted down (racket angle is like TPB block/short drive), it's quite effective. Also, when I do a drive or loop I naturally change my shakehand grip a bit: I loosen the pointer finger and press the thumb, this is quite like the pen grip I believe. I would like to start off learning to play with a TPB but also in the longer term try to learn RPB as well.

I did a few days of playing using my shakehand blade held like a penhold blade, and I liked it. Do you think it's a good idea to get a cheap basic C-pen blade for this, and what would you recommend for me? My current racket is the 'premade buster' from colestt.com (Yinhe N11 FL + 2x Dawei 2008 2.0mm) if that helps. If possible something I could find there or aliexpress, eacheng, etc. would be preferable for my situation. Thank you!

Milan Nemec · Feb 6, 2018

You can get soma Yasaka, DHS or Donic under 40 USD so I would try one of those mainstream blades in Cpen form

suds79 · Feb 6, 2018

I can't speak highly enough of the Gambler Fire Dragon series. Very nice & afrordable. You can find them at zeropong.com. if you can't do zeropong for some reason, i'd check with gamblertt.com and see if you can call or order from there. The Fire Dragon Touch is very nice. If you want something that's a pinch faster & still flexy, there's the Fire Dragon Fast.

Anyways, if you're going to learn penhold, learn it right from the jump. Start off with RPB. Trust me when I speak from experience that once you learn & get comfortable with TPB, going to RPB is tricky and can sometimes cause indecision.

"oh quick one to my bh? Do I TPB? Do I RPB?". type of thing. No longer term RPB. Trust me that's a big, big mistake. Just learn the modern game and play RPB right now while you're still new to the grip. You'll thank me later.

Just get use to playing RPB from the jump. You can even learn to push from that side. Most penholders push from the TPB side still but there are others to push from the RPB just fine.

Bo Chen for example. See him here.

passifid · Feb 6, 2018

I would reccomend a Ma Lin Extra Offensive with any rubber you fancy from pips to tack

OldschoolPenholder · Feb 6, 2018

steventt:

First, welcome to TTD !

Secondly, very cool you may consider playing PH! I'm not biased, nope, not biased at all given my nickname LOL

Third, I'm oldschool. Have been playing a little less than 3 yrs now after a 30+ yrs break. I am not a true EJ (equipment junkie) despite playing with a variety of rubbers and blades during my 'unretirement'. So I will defer to others WRT blades/rubbers.

However, I would offer you this perspective on something suds brought up ...

1. You can work with what you have now and probably adapt fairly fast if you play PH TPB and use your block
and "punch" (think this is what you meant by TPB 'drive' ... in the 1980's, this was called a 'push-block' by the Chinese).

or

2. You can take longer now to learn RPB properly and in the long run will have an effective all-around PH game than the limited olschoold PH TPB of 'block on the left and attack on the right'.

I will mention that if you have a good or decent SH BH loop, then RPB may be easy to pick up.

Please do report on your progress! Good luck in your training!!

~osph

Simas · Feb 6, 2018

steventt said:
Hello all! I play TT seriously for a half a year now and play shakehand, but I would like to try C-pen.

Why? I believe it may be suited for my play. My strongest play is close to the table push and fast loop. I also have a weird shakehand block when I get attacked on the BH side, I hold it in front of me tilted down (racket angle is like TPB block/short drive), it's quite effective. Also, when I do a drive or loop I naturally change my shakehand grip a bit: I loosen the pointer finger and press the thumb, this is quite like the pen grip I believe. I would like to start off learning to play with a TPB but also in the longer term try to learn RPB as well.

That's really interesting. This is the first time I hear someone is going from SH to PH. Maybe that's just me. Let us know how it turns out!

steventt · Feb 6, 2018

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

So yes suds79 I will absolutely try learning to RPB right away. Looking at footage of modern penholders it seems the TPB backhand, or 'push-block'/'punch' as OldSchoolPenholder said it's called, is virtually unused unless they are surprised by a return that lands close to them on BH side. I think again it is already when I'm surprised myself that I do my weird shakehand 'backhand' blocks holding my racket forward, hitting with the FH side. Really I should work on the RPB just as hard as I should have on a proper SHBH (it's bad, I can hardly loop with it!), and gain the benefit of a more 'natural' forehand loop for me with the pen grip.

It seems most of your recommendations go rather expensive for my liking (and my bank account currently

). With those blades averaging 30~40+ euros already and then some rubbers I feel like it would be a too expensive experiment for me (currently). Would a basic 5-wood ALL blade (in penhold) such as Sanwei M8 or Yinhe N11 with Friendship Cream Transcend (2.2?) rubbers be a good fit? I know I like the charcteristics of the N11 in shakehand, as it's my current blade for many many hours of play, and the Sanwei M8 is well-reviewed online as a cheap ALL blade. Cream Transcend also seems good for my close to the table loop game looking at the reviews on TableTennisDB (decent spin, decent gears, OK speed, low-medium throw angle).

Simas, I know. Trainer at my club was surprised at the idea, that penhold players were rare, but shakehand to pen was unheard of. But he does think it's interesting and he knows penhold technique and would like to help me experiment with it. Once I get a good penhold setup and have some hours trying it I will certainly share my experience.

noisyboy101 · Feb 7, 2018

I am a penholder with RPB, and I agree that RPB is better learnt early. You'll always be able to pick up TPB but RPB is much harder. I also went from being a SH to PH, but in my case ironically it's because I couldn't play SH BH

You have to really dedicate to playing to RPB though. You should look into the DHS H301. It was released very recently and very competitive in terms of price. I have heard good things about it. It's also not too expensive.

It is worth experimenting with PH. You'll need very good footwork to play it well. Good luck with it! It is a very fun style to play!

Flatstyk · Feb 7, 2018

Why not just duplicate what you got from Cole? " 'premade buster' from colestt.com (Yinhe N11 FL + 2x Dawei 2008 2.0mm?"
It is a solid set up and as you compare styles you will not be second guessing yourself by thinking maybe it is the difference in blade or rubber rather than technique.

steventt · Feb 7, 2018

noisyboy101, really it's just like you with the SHBH: mine is also terrible, and it is added motivation to try the RPB for me. It will be interesting to see how learning RPB goes.

Flatstyk yes, that was my first idea. Really I could not go wrong with that, but I saw learning the penhold as an opportunity to not just get a new different CS handle, but also maybe use my time played to try a set up more suited to my style. The premade buster I got just because it was affordable and advertised as good and durable for serious beginners, and I felt like at first learning proper technique is way more important than what you use. Perhaps just getting the same combination in CS would make more sense since playing penhold is a whole new task with significant basic differences after all.

berndtjgmann · Feb 7, 2018

(pasted from a photograph taken by John Oros at the Buckeye, Ohio Open, 2001)

This is a photograph of me at age 59 executing a crosscourt backhand reverse penhold hardbat counterdrive in a warmup with a hardbat player whose name alas I've forgotten. I'm using a 6-ply C-pen racket made by artisan Don Varian.

I don't recommend that you use a C-pen similar to the one I used 17 years ago, but If yoo want a blade, steven tt, that doesn't tear a big hole in your pocketbook perhaps the DHS Power G8 might be appropriate. Paddle Palace sells this blade for $39.95, it's rated (relative to other DHS C-pens) OFF-, and is described as follows:

"Power G8 has classic 5-ply wood structure with good handling. The perfect combination of friction and clean striking makes it perfect for close to the table quick loop drives. Handle C." (conical?)

As for choosing a rubber, I'll leave that up to the knowledge of other contributors, as I haven't played competitively since 2005 either hardbat or inverted and the equipment scene has changed considerably since then. In other words, it's become chaos out there.

steventt · Feb 7, 2018

berndtjgmann, actually that looks like a price category I could somewhat deal with. I found the DHS PG8 for 20 euros on a reliable Aliexpress store (GH Sports), thinking about what I might pair with it now. Thank you, and great history sir!

noisyboy101 · Feb 7, 2018

Leaning RPB will be fine as long as you have the discipline to do it. I've been playing PH for 2 years now and I've gotten different advice from different people on how to hold the bat and none of their advice worked. Apparently the way I hold it is wrong. I've attached a picture of the way I hold my bat. What I will say is select a grip you're comfortable with. If there are any problems then you make adjustments. In matches I actually rely more on my BH now to keep me in rallies. Fair to say my percentages between FH and BH makes my BH look much better!

TPB is a nice way to troll your opponents because they don't see that shot coming if you constantly rely on RPB!

steventt · Feb 7, 2018

Wow, you have a large gap, and is that a gap on the BH side? I've yet to see someone playing penhold gap the backhand side, only the forehand side a few mm!

noisyboy101 · Feb 7, 2018

Yeh that is the BH side. I needed a big gap to cut the weight down! I don't have big hands so it hurts my fingers

All that rubber there is useless anyway so why make my bat heavier

steventt · Feb 7, 2018

That's not a common modification is it? Either way that is not bad thinking. I dislike heavy rackets. When I ordered my current one I made sure to ask what the weight would be before I got it, and even if it's a bit lighter than average it still feels a little too heavy imo. I will consider that modification myself maybe!

suds79 · Feb 7, 2018

Just in case you forget as this is something you might or might not have done with your shakehand rackets but sand those wings. It'll make your penhold blade much, much more comfortable.

I like rounding my wings both ends and both sides. this way in whatever orientation you hold it, (i twiddle sometimes) it's comfortable. Good luck.

songdavid98 · Feb 7, 2018

Simas said:
That's really interesting. This is the first time I hear someone is going from SH to PH. Maybe that's just me. Let us know how it turns out!

I went from SH to PH when I first started. It was mainly because swinging hard with shakehand hurt my wrist for some reason. I tried penhold, learned RPB from the start and here I am!

noisyboy101 said:
Leaning RPB will be fine as long as you have the discipline to do it. I've been playing PH for 2 years now and I've gotten different advice from different people on how to hold the bat and none of their advice worked. Apparently the way I hold it is wrong. I've attached a picture of the way I hold my bat. What I will say is select a grip you're comfortable with. If there are any problems then you make adjustments. In matches I actually rely more on my BH now to keep me in rallies. Fair to say my percentages between FH and BH makes my BH look much better!

TPB is a nice way to troll your opponents because they don't see that shot coming if you constantly rely on RPB!

Here's how I hold it. I never use TPB. I RPB all the time, but I'm still a forehand dominant player. Been playing for 5 and a half years.

noisyboy101 · Feb 7, 2018

steventt said:
That's not a common modification is it? Either way that is not bad thinking. I dislike heavy rackets. When I ordered my current one I made sure to ask what the weight would be before I got it, and even if it's a bit lighter than average it still feels a little too heavy imo. I will consider that modification myself maybe!

Haha no that definitely is not a common modification. But us penholders are more unique aren't we? We all play with slightly different grips so we will need gear that fit us differently!

Yes do consider the modification yourself, will make your racket swing much faster!

My FH has about the same cut as my BH. Saved me around 60g!

suds79 · Feb 7, 2018

I would recommend to the OP they go with the traditional penhold grip. Basically what Song David pictured there.

I have a video talking penhold grip where I advocate a more cured finger grip at the time. And I still prefer that grip for twiddling but if you're not doing that and you're playing standard duel inverted? I recommend, and prefer the extended/slightly curved fingers approach.

IMO the more almost extended fingers on the paddle give greater feel and add power.

Trial C-pen?

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