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View Full Version : Penhold forehand vs Shakehand forehand



Andyzhao123
04-12-2018, 02:34 AM
Hi again!

As a beginner penholder, I'm wondering if there are any differences, big or small, between forehand strokes of penholders and forehand strokes of shakehanders. Is there a certain micro-adjustment that advanced penholders use to make their forehand more powerful/consistent? Does the wrist freedom affect the stroke? Is it better for penholders to keep their elbows slightly further from their body than shakehanders? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks to everyone in advance.

Musclesturtle
04-12-2018, 06:29 PM
I'm a penhod player who used to play shakehand.
I can tell you that the wrist is definitely more free to bend in a natural way, which you can use to generate more spin on loops and chops and serves and whatnot.
The penhold forehand is generally a more potent weapon than shakehand, I believe.
As far as elbow placement goes, I'm not too sure. I usually have my elbow away from my body on loops and drives.

Ranger-man
04-13-2018, 05:59 PM
The Cpen forehand is definitely a more potent weapon but you have to move around a lot to convert max killing opportunities into forehands. Jpen forehand is even more powerful than Cpen because with the fingers curled around the cork you can swing harder without having to worry about losing your grip. The longer Jpen blade face also means the sweet spot is further away from your elbow and shoulder joints making for a more powerful swing.
Last but not least, the Cpen forehand is a movement that is a full arm motion so it is more physically demanding and the elbow will be a farther away from the body compared to shakehand forehand. It is definitely a more demanding - and I believe more rewarding - style of play.

Andyzhao123
04-14-2018, 09:30 PM
How far, exactly should the elbow be from the body?

Ranger-man
04-14-2018, 10:46 PM
The best way to do this is to keep your stroke and arm motion as natural as possible. I mean if the shot is close to you and you are cramped for space, then of course you will keep the elbow tucked in as you try to loop the ball. The motion then will be more from your elbow and wrist and less from your shoulder. But when you are well positioned and the primary motion is from the shoulder, your elbow will automatically be farther away from your body.
Don't focus too much on how far away it should be since the difference between the two is not huge, it is in inches at best. Just remember that the motion starts with your shoulder, then the elbow comes into motion. Or maybe I should say it starts first with your body because you will lower your body, bend the knees a bit, bend and twist at the waist and lower your arm and then start your upwards swing to loop the ball. This is where all the power comes from

This video helped me a lot when I was trying to perfect my forehand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W70Op2ACiJ0

Andyzhao123
04-21-2018, 07:48 PM
I've heard that at the beginning, it's better to have the elbow at a fixed position so that the shots become more consistent, with using the leg to adjust to the ball rather than the arm.

https://youtu.be/hybQkZMUifo
At the start of the video, you can see that Ma Lin keeps his elbow fairly close to his body when looping.

https://youtu.be/A5lmr4FoqH8
In this video, Xu Xin's forehand looks almost fully outstretched.

Which one do you think is better for beginner players?

ajtatosmano2
04-21-2018, 08:21 PM
I've heard that at the beginning, it's better to have the elbow at a fixed position so that the shots become more consistent, with using the leg to adjust to the ball rather than the arm.

https://youtu.be/hybQkZMUifo
At the start of the video, you can see that Ma Lin keeps his elbow fairly close to his body when looping.

https://youtu.be/A5lmr4FoqH8
In this video, Xu Xin's forehand looks almost fully outstretched.

Which one do you think is better for beginner players?


Xu Xin doesn't stretches his arm either. He just has a more fixed elbow position. From another angle they would seem more similar. fixed elbow and wrist is good. It gives you more consistency. But don't do it hard! The key points:

you shouldn't have tension in you arm or shoulder or wrist when you start the swing, the loop should feel natural. If you feel you're slow, then the problem is with your weight transfer.

loop forward!! look at fang bo in the video you posted

weight transfer.

accelerate at the contact!!!!! it will increase the quality of your loop in every aspect: spin, speed, control. tons of people I see to play are trying to swing hard. I did it too. That's not the right way. the swing should feel loose and natural. of course you mustn't just swing it totally free, a loosely fixed elbow and wrist is needed, but avoid having too much tension. When you're about to contact the ball: BANG! It's a short, intense action. it's quite hard to notice in the videos, but it's there. When you hear Fang Bo breathe out when they are counterlooping in the video you posted, that's the moment when he adds power) You will feel when you doing it right.

EDIT: Over time, when you're more consistent you want to add more wrist action. some people is talented in this and able to use wrist correctly from early on, some just messes up his loop with his wrist, either with not using it or overusing it. I would recommend you to don't pay attention to your wrist other than not having it totally locked and tense.
EDIT: +1 point: don't contact the ball at it's back! it will either cause a spinless ball or encourages a bad upward looping motion
3rd EDIT, I promise this will be the last :) : you might see that the chinese players let their arms down before the loop, especially FZD.I would recommend you to avoid letting your racket below waist level, because it also encourages upward motion. It's not that it's wrong, just FZD and other chinese know the right technique. however, unless you're very conscious during training and train a lot it might build bad habits when you aren't aware of it. here is Harimoto looping, he is a good player to imitate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sGQz5Xp7uE