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View Full Version : Sponge difference 1.7 vs 1.9 vs 2.1



Ndragon
04-22-2018, 02:53 PM
I would like to get the details and personal experiences of the direct differences of the sponge sizes.
Assuming its the exact same rubber sheet and sponge hardness, what would the differences be. Inverted rubbers only.
If possible break it down for as many different types of shots and from all distance from table.

Main shots being FH push, FH opening loop, FH block/counter, FH loop to loop

Thanks in advance

Baal
04-22-2018, 03:05 PM
A lot of work. I am not going to write the amount needed to answer the OP's question and I have never had experience with 1.7 with any modern rubber. In my experience, though, kind of paradoxically, I keep the ball on the table better with thicker rubber (2.1 mm) on nearly every shot (compared to 1.9).

Your results may differ.

langel
04-22-2018, 04:20 PM
What Sponge Thickness Should I Choose?
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%2Fforum%2Fcache.php%3Fimg%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%252Fforum%252Fcache.php%253Fimg%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fbutterflyonline.com%25252Fwp-content%25252Fuploads%25252F2015%25252F09%25252FRGthickness-300x180.jpg
Many rubbers offer multiple sponge thicknesses. The sponge layer, the area between the top-sheet and the wood, acts as a trampoline. Thinner sponge will be less “springy” and have a hard feel, as the ball will generally sink to the wood surface, producing less spin and speed. Thicker sponge will have a soft feel and will be faster and provide more spin as the ball will sink deep into the sponge layer catapulting it outward with tremendous velocity and increased spin. If you are unsure about which thickness to choose, 1.9mm sponge is always a safe bet.


This is the short answer given by Butterfly.

It may look good for a general assumption, but there are much more aspects, needed to evaluate correctly the differences in a bat system behaviour, depending not only on sponge thickness, such as rubber/hardness (soft rubber-hard sponge and the opposite), blade hardness and flexibility. So, comparing all combinations, you may find some deviations from the general assuption. And aside from this, what you would feel better is just very personal.

https://butterflyonline.com/table-tennis-rubber-guide/

Ndragon
04-22-2018, 04:53 PM
What Sponge Thickness Should I Choose?
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%2Fforum%2Fcache.php%3Fimg%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%252Fforum%252Fcache.php%253Fimg%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%25252Fforum%25252Fcache.php%25253Fimg%25253Dhttp%2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fbutterflyonline.com%2525252Fwp-content%2525252Fuploads%2525252F2015%2525252F09%2525252FRGthickness-300x180.jpg
Many rubbers offer multiple sponge thicknesses. The sponge layer, the area between the top-sheet and the wood, acts as a trampoline. Thinner sponge will be less “springy” and have a hard feel, as the ball will generally sink to the wood surface, producing less spin and speed. Thicker sponge will have a soft feel and will be faster and provide more spin as the ball will sink deep into the sponge layer catapulting it outward with tremendous velocity and increased spin. If you are unsure about which thickness to choose, 1.9mm sponge is always a safe bet.


This is the short answer given by Butterfly.

It may look good for a general assumption, but there are much more aspects, needed to evaluate correctly the differences in a bat system behaviour, depending not only on sponge thickness, such as rubber/hardness (soft rubber-hard sponge and the opposite), blade hardness and flexibility. So, comparing all combinations, you may find some deviations from the general assuption. And aside from this, what you would feel better is just very personal.

https://butterflyonline.com/table-tennis-rubber-guide/

oh wow nice, thanks for that.
Hmm I see what you mean. I am wondering specifically with my Mantra S which is quite soft so I wonder if it would still generate good arc at mid distance to keep my counterloops safe

langel
04-23-2018, 07:29 AM
Well, as far as I see, you are a chopper? If so, maybe some choppers in the forum can give you better answers.
About the arc - generally rubbers with higher top spin arc produce lower back spin arc, harder rubbers have higher top spin arc and softer rubbers have lower top spin arc.
The arc of the softer rubbers depends more on the flexibility of the blade - with stiffer blades it will be even lower, with a well-flexy blade it will be higher, speakung of top spin. Thinner sponge will engage blade properties more and that will reflex on the result too.

Ndragon
04-23-2018, 07:39 AM
Well, as far as I see, you are a chopper? If so, maybe some choppers in the forum can give you better answers.

I rarely chop on my FH though. I fish/counter and loop

langel
04-23-2018, 07:56 AM
I rarely chop on my FH though. I fish/counter and loop

Maybe i'm wrong, but I think that your Victas Koji Matsushita + Mantra S is more adequate for choppers. I don't think that it would give you a good looping mid distanse experience even with max ticknes.

Lightzy
04-23-2018, 10:53 AM
It depends only on how hard and accurate you spin the ball.

With flat hits it doesn't mean much, and you will get best results with a thicker rubber the more power and technique you have

Ndragon
04-23-2018, 11:54 AM
Maybe i'm wrong, but I think that your Victas Koji Matsushita + Mantra S is more adequate for choppers. I don't think that it would give you a good looping mid distanse experience even with max ticknes.

I use it in 2.1 and the VKM is an ALL blade not too slow, pretty much like the Stiga ALL classic with speed. Its pretty nice for mid distance looping but I am wondering about the thickness due to a new blade I am looking at purchasing but the recommendation is less than 2mm sponge paired with it. I am not comfortable to get the 1.7 without getting some answers. So if anything I will get 1.9. Just wondering really what are the differences.



It depends only on how hard and accurate you spin the ball.

With flat hits it doesn't mean much, and you will get best results with a thicker rubber the more power and technique you have

For fishing I would assume then it wouldn't make much of a difference. But when I decide to swing hard for the counterloop it will, but what would the differences be you think? Less spin? Less speed? Bottom out? All of the above lol? Maybe I will just ask about the 1.9 compared to 2.1 then. Surely would be very little difference, but I could be very wrong lol

Lightzy
04-23-2018, 12:42 PM
For fishing I would assume then it wouldn't make much of a difference. But when I decide to swing hard for the counterloop it will, but what would the differences be you think? Less spin? Less speed? Bottom out? All of the above lol? Maybe I will just ask about the 1.9 compared to 2.1 then. Surely would be very little difference, but I could be very wrong lol

There is a difference despite it being a small scale. A thicker sponge (of identical composition) will be able to store more energy and wrap around a ball better when that ball has enough energy behind it (with the addition of your swing) to dig into the sponge. When you topspin, the ball digs into the sponge at an angle which makes every millimeter count for more (which is why the differences are more pronounced when topspinning a ball powerfully but not so much when hitting directly, which is why if you like to block hard it's better to get a hard sponge rather than a thick sponge etc).

But really, softness and firmness are more important I think. Though ultimately it all adds to the same stuff.

Ndragon
04-23-2018, 01:14 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. I found a couple of very interesting forum threads on this subject just now and I definitely will not go below 1.9.

Totally see what you're saying @Lightzy and I am willing to take the chance and go with the 1.9 compared to what I normally use being 2.1. I am not expecting it to make my game better, but I am expecting it not to make it worse! :D