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View Full Version : Counterloop against Spinny Loop fh and bh



Gabgrohriel
04-29-2018, 03:04 PM
Hello,

can you give me some tips how i can loop against a spinny loop (with more sidespin ? let the ball fall ? step away from the table ?) to my forehand side and to my backhand side, i want to bring my game to the next level, do you have some good tips, must i change my technique (european looping style) to chinese technique (ma long style) to loop these balls agressively and how do i counterloop this balls on the backhand side, with a long stroke or a fast short stroke ?

here is a video from ma long, but i can't explain why this looks so easy, when i counterloop with european style the ball will fall very wide out off the table. I hope you have some good tips :DD

it starts at 0:47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtsU_-LI6nE


thank you very very much

Hamasaki_Fanz
04-29-2018, 03:50 PM
you need to hit the ball when it starts to fall down, and make sure you have the correct yinpai, so you can overcome the opponent's spin ;)

Der_Echte
04-29-2018, 04:56 PM
There are several ways to go about things.

You can be close to the table and take it right of the bounce with a loose hand and go forward with a short stroke.

Advantages are it is quick, easy to do, takes very little energy to do, is low risk, high landing percentage, and the quickness of the shot wrecks the timing of the opponent.

Disadvantages are that it is not very powerful, and does not have the most spin of your available options.

You can be close to the table and let the ball rise to net height or so and strike it at the rise firming up the grip right at impact.

This option gives you the maximum combination of quickness and explosive pace. The timing of the strike and firming of grip pressure are more advanced and difficult than the off the bounce loose impact. A player beginning to try this out will go through a period of adjustment and miss many shots getting this timing of impact and grip... not to mention the position.

You can play away from the table and impact the ball on the descent, preferably around table height or whatever height you see and feel the ball best. You can have TWO easy ways for control. LOOSE grip at impact and/or impact the ball going forward, but strike it some on the outside to make a hookshot.

The loose grip at impact is way under-taught at any level. The loose grip absorbs the pace and spin, in this case incoming spin. The loose grip will give you control. Use a medium stroke with less than full power. Start with 50% power or less. Impact ball head on and go forward. You will return the ball back with decent topspin. Once you get the timing and feel, you can progressively swing with more power and grip pressure and get more pace and spin, but know that this takes a long time to develop fully. Start off with the easy grip and easy power and move on up.

The impact on side with light grip pressure is an easy way to control incoming heavy topspin. The impact on the side avoids the spin to a degree and allows your impact to easily over-rule the incoming spin. You will have to still make a stroke, you cannot just stick the bat out there and expect it to work. Start out with less than 50% power. Once you get the habit of impacting this way, increase power and grip pressure progressively. It will take a while to fully get there, but once you do, you will easily rip counter loops if you are in position and ready.

You can overcome the heavy spin on the ball with your IMPACT hitting it straight on or on the side some.

You are in position and have a real heavy topspin ball come into your impact zone. One option is to use any level of power and really firm up the grip RIGHT AT IMPACT. This will over-ride the spin and give you pace and some good spin. This is way under taught, but very effective. Many top J-Pen players do this instinctively and absolutely punish such a ball with a smash-mouth return that leaves a vapor trail. Executing this shot at first is difficult, like many other shots, this will take time to develop. Like just about every shot, you must be in position ready and willing.

OK, so I laid out some options for you, but don't expect to be a pro right away with these. Out of all the options, the soft hand options are easiest to execute right away with consistency. You could start out with these if you want to see some kind of positive results right away, but I would advise trying them all out and in general, growing all of these options at the cost of losing some points in some matches or losing face in practice.

But what the heck, what is my advice worth? I could be so full of it that the sewer pipes running below Carl's secret Brooklyn Crack House #13 all burst from my excessive BS. Carl would be real disappointed if that happened as his captured Goonies would then escape early before their sentence was over.

yogi_bear
04-29-2018, 04:57 PM
contact the topside part of the ball

Der_Echte
04-29-2018, 04:58 PM
Another note on the last option where you firm up the grip, you can play the shot at any part of the rise or descent, but you must know it will take a long time to develop it. Expect a lot of errors while you learn it, but it is a good investment.

Der_Echte
04-29-2018, 05:00 PM
Another thing is these techniques have nothing to do with a Euro or Sino style of looping. They are all solid concepts that will work and you decide when and how to use them.

Atas Newton
04-29-2018, 05:50 PM
Join the Dark Side, go long pips and forget about the incoming spin!

yoass
04-29-2018, 05:58 PM
Join the Dark Side, go long pips and forget about the incoming spin!

Naw, no reason. Der_E nailed it. I prefer it short on the BH and on the descent on the FH. And much like pretty much everything, footwork is key to making the stroke work.

Andy44
04-29-2018, 06:50 PM
As Der Echte said, you can block or counter loop off the bounce or step back and take it on the way down, but these work best if you get the contact point and racket angle right for the amount of incoming spin. Less accurate judgement is required for his last option, driving through the ball to overwhelm the incoming spin. This is the first way I was taught exactly because it requires less experience, although it puts a premium on footwork. Shot mechanics stay the same for almost any amount of moderate to heavy topspin, so easier to learn consistency. The key is holding the ball on your racket as long as possible (this is what overwhelms the incoming spin), and you do this mostly with your legs and core driving your weight through the ball. Since you're going for maximum weight transfer, the hardest part of this shot is recovery to ready position.

Garrison
04-29-2018, 07:03 PM
You need to get on top of the ball. If you look at players like Timo Boll or Marcos Freitas, you see that they have a curve motion while Ma Long has a straight motion.

UpSideDownCarl
04-29-2018, 07:50 PM
The basics have been covered. How you touch the ball for a counterloop is important. With a counterloop it is easy to use the opponent's power against them so you can swing soft and take their power if your touch is right. But you can also swing big. And as Der pointed out, on a counterloop you can take the ball on the rise, at the top of the bounce or while it is falling.

But it would be useful to see what you are and are not doing when you try to counterloop. If the ball is flying long on you, it is likely the angle of the racket and how you are touching the ball that are at least part of the problem.