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Shifu
05-03-2018, 08:49 AM
Wow... I didn't know this was 'possible'. I think it's an amazing gesture but I think it's unfair to the other teams...
I don't know how I would have decided if it was my decision at the ITTF


https://www.ittf.com/2018/05/03/one-korea-unified-power-table-tennis/

zeio
05-03-2018, 08:59 AM
The main draw happened to be in favor of the ITTF for another Ping-Pong Diplomacy - perfect chance for free publicity. I would've green-lit it if I were in power. Though Netherlands and Thailand, both 4th in group, might not like it.

jawien
05-03-2018, 09:23 AM
I was just wondering what happened to the matchup ; ) hah ... intersting. Awkward for the competition, but quite special in terms of "ping pong diplomacy". I support this one, shows that table tennis community cares about something more than just simple competition.

zeio
05-03-2018, 09:32 AM
News from roughly 21 hours ago.

http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=3047615

According to the KTTA, the performance improvement committee, headed by KTTA Vice President Lee You-sung, will go over measures that will “minimize the damage to South Korean athletes” should there be a unified squad.

One way to do so would be to expand the entries for the proposed Korean team.

...

If the unified Korean team is allowed to send extra athletes, then South Korean players won’t have to cede their spots to North Koreans.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2018/05/03/0200000000AEN20180503009751315.html

The two have agreed not to cut any of the current five South Korean and four North Korean players for the semifinals. The South Korean players are: Jeon Ji-hee, Kim Ji-ho, Suh Hyo-won, Yang Ha-eun and Yoo Eun-chong. The North Koreans are: Cha Hyo-sim, Choe Hyon-hwa, Kim Nam-hae and Kim Song-i.

The joint squad will be called Korea. Should the new team reach the podium, all nine players will receive a medal, and both South Korean and North Korean national flags will be raised in the medal ceremony. The athletes will each don their respective national uniforms, since their teams were brought together during the tournament and hadn't prepared any joint gear.

...

The KTTA said ITTF President Thomas Weikert helped arrange the joint team at the worlds. The KTTA has also proposed a unified Korean team at this year's Asian Games in Indonesia, pending the ITTF's approval. The KTTA said it would like to see both Koreas retain their allotted roster spots -- two players each in the men's and women's singles, two teams each in the mixed doubles and five players in the team event -- even if they combine their teams.

rainneverever
05-03-2018, 10:15 AM
Chinese Taipei must be very regretful and Hong Kong, beat Romania and join CNT to get free gold!

zeio
05-03-2018, 10:44 AM
"A Brilliant Move for Peace, A Foolish Move for Competition. Surprised by Sudden Unified Team"

That's the title of one entry (http://world-tt.com/ps_info/ps_report_detail.php?bn=188&pg=HEAD&page=BACK&rpcdno=60#60) on Japanese magazine Table Tennis Kingdom.

Japan is not warm about the decision.

zeio
05-03-2018, 11:09 AM
For the Korea lineup, I think Suh Hyowon, Yang Haeun and Kim Song I will be benched. They wouldn't stand much chance against Japan now. Jeon Jihee would be a suitable choice.

Xylit
05-03-2018, 11:14 AM
A Brilliant Move for Peace, A Foolish Move for Competition
Exactly my thoughts. No matter how great this news is, you can't just change the competition during a World Team Event. They still could have celebrated the unification and spread the news regarding FUTURE events. They still had to play a last time against each other due to the draw. One team could have surrendered or they could have played show matches or even real matches for the last time. But changing the competition just because their countries are about to make plans about a unification... it is not like they did unify already.

As much as I like the news I don't agree with what has happened at WTTTC.

NextLevel
05-03-2018, 11:28 AM
Exactly my thoughts. No matter how great this news is, you can't just change the competition during a World Team Event. They still could have celebrated the unification and spread the news regarding FUTURE events. They still had to play a last time against each other due to the draw. One team could have surrendered or they could have played show matches or even real matches for the last time. But changing the competition just because their countries are about to make plans about a unification... it is not like they did unify already.

As much as I like the news I don't agree with what has happened at WTTTC.

My compromise is that Korea should allow their opponents to pick the team with at least one from each part of Korea.

Tony's Table Tennis
05-03-2018, 12:32 PM
I am happy that every one agrees this is a good move for peace and bad move for competition

so will this open up against Germany and England to team together against China in the future
or South Korea and Japan to team together?

if this was unified before the tournament, then that is fine
but now 2 teams both progress to the next round is unfair in many ways.
surely the unified team can only have 5 players, not 10 to choose from...

ITTF has made a big mistake with this move.
They are a table tennis organization and best interest of table tennis must come first.
How can they make 2 countries interest over 70 other countries?
teaming up would strengthen you and for other countries not to team up is unfair...
ie formal soviet can have all the numbers 1 team up to be a very strong unified team too.

again, if unity was before the tournament - then this would allow another country to fill up the 72 team roster
and unified korea would only have 5 players
but half way in the competition,,,ittf should discourage it.
they should compete with each other, and who ever wins should share with the other korea (whether it is medal or prize money) or the reward for winning....

or maybe U korea A vs U korea B and then the winner to progress (not both teams progress)

countrybread
05-03-2018, 06:03 PM
Feels political more than diplomatic. They need to train together and repeat the formula of success as they did in the first unified team. Otherwise, the biggest opponents to this team might be each other. During previous Olympics, when they marched together, two athletes held the flag and they were ordered by their respective governments to try and hold the higher position on it.

Having said that, a unified Korean team would be loaded with talent (except maybe the men's). I sometimes wonder what Korea would have looked like if it wasn't divided by communist forces.

jawien
05-03-2018, 06:15 PM
Yeah, I've made emotional comment before, because it is always nice to see people or countries, for that matter, overcomming what separates them ...
But the more I think about it and read your comments, the more I see how risky it was on the ITTF's part. Such special events should really leave no room for any controversy. If it was a final match for gold - briliant (!) but 1/8 ... I can see why Japan feels not too warm about it. I mean I'm (and Japan must be too) really happy for the Koreans, but Tom is right, the fairness of the competition suffered a little. There might have been a better way.

rainneverever
05-03-2018, 06:41 PM
I am serious about HK and CNT women team join together to proceed to the final. Hong Kong is part of China, no controversy. The two teams know each other pretty well, train together and the head coach of HK is Liu Guodong, LGL's elder brother. I see NO points that ITTF don't let these two teams unify.

zeio
05-03-2018, 07:05 PM
A little correction here. Korea was not divided by communist forces, but occupied by the Soviet and US after WWII. If the Soviet Union and US didn't interfere, Korea would never have split into two countries.

zeio
05-03-2018, 07:18 PM
I am serious about HK and CNT women team join together to proceed to the final. Hong Kong is part of China, no controversy. The two teams know each other pretty well, train together and the head coach of HK is Liu Guodong, LGL's elder brother. I see NO points that ITTF don't let these two teams unify.

Nah, it's a different situation. The Basic Law grants Hong Kong and Macau the right to participate in international sport competitions under the official titles "Hong Kong, China" and "Macau, China" after the handover, respectively. Think of them as England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland, all representing the UK in Soccer and Rugby.

The more accurate analogy would be China and Chinese Taipei.

rainneverever
05-03-2018, 07:24 PM
I mean if ITTF allows North Korea and South Korea teams to unify and proceed (these are two separate nations), why Hongkong and China cannot unify and proceed (these are two separate associations of one nation).
The chance for Hongkong to beat China then win the final is 0. If Hongkong asks to unify and skip the semifinal, they will have 99.9999999999% chance to get gold at the end. What a deal.


Nah, it's a different situation. The Basic Law grants Hong Kong and Macau the right to participate in international sport competitions under the official titles "Hong Kong, China" and "Macau, China" after the handover, respectively. Think of them as England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland, all representing the UK in Soccer and Rugby.

The more accurate analogy would be China and Chinese Taipei.

jawien
05-03-2018, 07:35 PM
Next I imagine will be Germany and Japan (just my predictions) merging together in the semis before the final with China ... ; ))

Tony's Table Tennis
05-03-2018, 07:36 PM
Zeio,

Chinese Taipei, Hong Kong, Macau is all on the same position. or rather Chinese Taipei is more independent from China rule than Hong Kong is - anyways, you get my point.

So China + all "chinese/china" form 1 team
All commonwealth form 1 team
All European Union form 1 team
All former Soviet form 1 team
Americas form 1 team

zeio
05-03-2018, 07:38 PM
Doing so would undermine the "one country, two systems" promise. That promise is paramount in recovering(liberating in Mao's term) Taiwan from Beijing's perspective.

"Unified" is not the best word here. "Returned" is the official term used by UK and China. Hong Kong was never recognized as a country during its British colonial era, which is why it's totally different from North/South Korea, both of which are recognized as countries.

As I just wrote, multiple associations from one nation is a common occurence in other sports. Puerto Rico is a US territory, yet the US and Puerto Rico field thier own teams.

It wouldn't matter if Hong Kong could beat China or not, representing the region is all that matters, an exercise of a right granted by the law.

Tony's Table Tennis
05-03-2018, 07:40 PM
I mean if ITTF allows North Korea and South Korea teams to unify and proceed (these are two separate nations), why Hongkong and China cannot unify and proceed (these are two separate associations of one nation).
The chance for Hongkong to beat China then win the final is 0. If Hongkong asks to unify and skip the semifinal, they will have 99.9999999999% chance to get gold at the end. What a deal.

And for China, they have a "walk over" and players can rest and be stronger the next match

Look at Chinese Taipei Chen Szu Yu - getting insured playing against a North Korean chopper....
If you can skip a game vs choppers, its good for the next match

Tony's Table Tennis
05-03-2018, 07:42 PM
Doing so would undermine the "one country, two systems" promise. That promise is paramount in recovering(liberating in Mao's term) Taiwan from Beijing's perspective.

"Unified" is not the best word here. "Returned" is the official term used by UK and China. Hong Kong was never recognized as a country during its British colonial era, which is why it's totally different from North/South Korea, both of which are recognized as countries.

As I just wrote, multiple associations from one nation is a common occurence in other sports. Puerto Rico is a US territory, yet the US and Puerto Rico field thier own teams.

It wouldn't matter if Hong Kong could beat China or not, representing the region is all that matters, an exercise of a right granted by the law.

So Puerto Rico and US should get together
Having Diaz and Zhang added together would strengthen them a lot

Tony's Table Tennis
05-03-2018, 07:46 PM
I think if ITTF could of made 2 x Unified Korea teams

with half players from NK and half player from SK per team
and let the "mix teams" compete in the scheduled QF

A) players can watch schedule match
B) best team progress - 5 players max per team

But then again if few ITTF members are not happy of this, what authority does ITTF have to decided these matters.
Does the ITTF President have power to decide this, or does this go to the board for votes?

Again, its good gesture, but there is legality issues with such decision making and would therefore undermine rules of the tournament and maybe constitution of the ITTF

rainneverever
05-03-2018, 07:57 PM
In the ITTF press conference, ITTF said they haven't determined the rules like which players can be selected in the next match. They just did it.
What a joke and what a show...

Loopadoop
05-03-2018, 07:58 PM
The ITTF saw it as a way to get media attention across all news networks.

zeio
05-03-2018, 09:25 PM
Here is Weikert's response to concerns over the fairness and formality of the decision:

"Yes, we respect the rules; yes, we have changed the rules; yes, it is beyond the rules. This is my answer. This is the symbol of peace. Also, there will be more in the future."

http://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pingpang/2018-05-03/doc-ifzfkmth8445319.shtml

igorponger
05-03-2018, 11:19 PM
RULES DICTATE AS FOLLOWS: NOT PLAYING A MATCH SHALL ENTAIL DISQUALIFICATION FROM COMPETITION.

This morning, North and South both refused to play the 1/4 match as scheduled, and, according to the Rules Book, they both must be withdrawn from the event.. This is the Rule of table tennis, now still in force. See the Rule clause of "Presentation".

Again, every National Team participating here in Halmstad did make a writen pledge that they keep up all the Rules and Fair Play. It is a solemn pledge obligatory to all the participants. Yes.
South and North "unification" action is a gross profanation of the Rules, indeed.

So then, North and South both must be excluded from the event, and Japan must progress walkover to Final.

National Umpire/

BeGo
05-03-2018, 11:45 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_World_Table_Tennis_Championships#Unified_team_of_Korea

This not the first time They made a united team. :(

Sent from my I7D using Tapatalk

rainneverever
05-03-2018, 11:54 PM
1991 is different case. You don't unite in the middle of a tournament and have 10 players on your team

ttpshot
05-04-2018, 12:00 AM
Wow, what a mess. I thought Germans are known for obeying the law. South and North Korea unified. Sports and politics unified as well.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
05-04-2018, 12:12 AM
don't worry , Japan will crush them :-)

hillwalker
05-04-2018, 12:21 AM
I'd note that Thomas Weikert is old enough, to remember when Germany was split in two with a fortified border between communist and capitalist halves, and to remember the fall of the Berlin wall and the reunification.

So not surprising the Germans will have strong feelings and a soft spot about this situation.

talbon
05-04-2018, 12:30 AM
don't worry , Japan will crush them :-)
Maybe, which would be a bit embarrassing. Bad timing, we just united our teams and then proceeded to lose. Sounds wrong. I'd rather see them reach the final, but Japan has a strong team. (I have nothing against the Japanese team either, if anything they are generally among the more entertaining teams, especially against CNT.)

On a side note, lol at the whining and bitching. O my gawd what does the rule book say? Without being naive about ITTF's motives either, that's still a pretty lame point to argue.

ttpshot
05-04-2018, 12:33 AM
don't worry , Japan will crush them :-)

Not really bothered about playing against united Korea as their goal is to win a whole thing. Never thought ITTF would make a mockery of the WTTC. I do feel a bit sorry about players who missed out on potential ranking point though.

NoFootwork
05-04-2018, 12:35 AM
The ITTF saw it as a way to get media attention across all news networks.
This.

However, only 3 players can be selected to play a match. Do you pick 2 from S. Korea and 1 from N. Korea or the other way around. Whichever country gets only 1 player selected to play will be offended and immediately war will be declared for the insult.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
05-04-2018, 01:04 AM
I was thinking the same LOL
If I take hint of the interviews seen on tv it looks like it will be Yang Haeun, Suh Hyowon and Kim Song I. No surprise for Yang and Kim. Jeon Jihee might be stronger than Suh Hyowon but it really depends on their form and their opponent

Takkyu_wa_inochi
05-04-2018, 01:06 AM
They interviewed the Japanese players who said they were surprised and that the unified team would be even stronger but they are excited about the challenge. They don’t seem angry at all and I believe they’re too young to have much interest in politics

rainneverever
05-04-2018, 02:03 AM
Ishikawa said to Chinese CCTV journalist that it has happened and players have to accept it. She has to be herself and will try her best to play.
She also wrote her weibo in Chinese, better myself and keep fighting tomorrow.
I don't see she is angry but not excited as well.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
05-04-2018, 02:13 AM
I saw her on Japanese TV with her teammates...

UpSideDownCarl
05-04-2018, 02:40 AM
Did I hear correctly that ITTF announced ML and FZD would play on the women's team in the next round? And that Japan and Germany were going to join forces to commemorate their alliance from a bygone era?

Loopadoop
05-04-2018, 04:06 AM
Did I hear correctly that ITTF announced ML and FZD would play on the women's team in the next round? And that Japan and Germany were going to join forces to commemorate their alliance from a bygone era?

That probably is not right, did a Google search, didn't find anything to corroborate your hearing

Jimbob MacInbred
05-04-2018, 05:38 AM
I'd note that Thomas Weikert is old enough, to remember when Germany was split in two with a fortified border between communist and capitalist halves, and to remember the fall of the Berlin wall and the reunification.

So not surprising the Germans will have strong feelings and a soft spot about this situation.


Do not overestimate the size of that soft spot. Quite a few people in Germany do not have that spot (any longer)...the ones that still have it, might have some feelings about it, but not all of them are positive feelings/emotions...
As for Weikert: No comment...

Jimbob MacInbred
05-04-2018, 05:44 AM
...And that Japan and Germany were going to join forces to commemorate their alliance from a bygone era?


Dima 'n Koki walking hand in hand together into the sunset after a long battle in the trench? Why not! Like that picture...;)

countrybread
05-04-2018, 08:10 AM
A little correction here. Korea was not divided by communist forces, but occupied by the Soviet and US after WWII. If the Soviet Union and US didn't interfere, Korea would never have split into two countries.

Haha, I suppose that's the diplomatic way of looking at it. However, I'm doubtful the communists would be happy with having a democracy on their border. They would have done something about it. And the US could have just given this small country up to a brutal regime and decided it wasn't worth the trouble.

bzing
05-04-2018, 08:27 AM
Before 1989 was there East German team and West German team both seperate representing table tennis and in other sports like North Korea and South Korea has had ever since 1945 ?

zeio
05-04-2018, 08:35 AM
East Germany and West Germany were both among the founding members of the ETTU in 1957. You bet there was.

zeio
05-04-2018, 09:05 AM
Haha, I suppose that's the diplomatic way of looking at it. However, I'm doubtful the communists would be happy with having a democracy on their border. They would have done something about it. And the US could have just given this small country up to a brutal regime and decided it wasn't worth the trouble.

Not nececessarily, as China later broke ties with the Soviet and Vietnam. What communists do not like is US-influenced democracies.

Had the US done that, it's likely Korea would've declared independence in 1989.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
05-04-2018, 09:05 AM
apparently the Korean team is 3 NK players and 2SK players (YANG Haeun & JEON Jihee)

SUH Hyowon must not be very happy about it

zeio
05-04-2018, 09:14 AM
I don't know. Jeon Jihee is getting steamrolled. Ito is the best against choppers and Ishikawa has gotten better, too. I thought they would bench Kim Song I.

Dan
05-04-2018, 01:28 PM
Hey guys i took this video yesterday, it was from behind the scenes of the North and South korea unity.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgS9NKg6LoE

UpSideDownCarl
05-04-2018, 01:50 PM
Did I hear correctly that ITTF announced ML and FZD would play on the women's team in the next round? And that Japan and Germany were going to join forces to commemorate their alliance from a bygone era?


That probably is not right, did a Google search, didn't find anything to corroborate your hearing

You knew I was joking, right? :)

Lightzy
05-04-2018, 04:55 PM
Huh, Trump finished uniting Korea already? Making the world great again

countrybread
05-04-2018, 05:35 PM
Not nececessarily, as China later broke ties with the Soviet and Vietnam. What communists do not like is US-influenced democracies.

Had the US done that, it's likely Korea would've declared independence in 1989.

You're a very optimistic person, haha! I like that.

Suga D
05-04-2018, 05:39 PM
I'd note that Thomas Weikert is old enough, to remember when Germany was split in two with a fortified border between communist and capitalist halves, and to remember the fall of the Berlin wall and the reunification.

So not surprising the Germans will have strong feelings and a soft spot about this situation.

We sure do. But as much as i understood, they just felt the heat of the moment and then took advantage of it AS A SYMBOL AND A SIGNAL OF WORLDPEACE.
You might wanna read this:
https://www.mytischtennis.de/public/buntes/12362/weikert---bdquo-das-hier-ist-groesser-als-die-regeln-ldquo

Unfortunately i have no time to translate now, but maybe you could use an online translator.


Do not overestimate the size of that soft spot. Quite a few people in Germany do not have that spot (any longer)...the ones that still have it, might have some feelings about it, but not all of them are positive feelings/emotions...
As for Weikert: No comment...

Some of my russian friends won't like the following, but most of my russian friends will appreciate what i wrote, so here we go:
Nah, even though these voices seem to be getting louder lately, that is exactly what a troll-factory from St.Petersburg is trying to make people think, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Most people haven't forgot and are thankful for what Mr. Gorbatschow and Mr. Bush and Mr. Kohl have made possible for us.
As a matter of fact many also haven't forgotten what Mr. Putin said when he was first "elected" a while ago, when he said that he wanted to correct the biggest geopolitical mistake of the 20th Century, the collapse of of the former soviet union. Back then everyone was guessing what he could have meant. Now about 20 years later after seeing what has happened to the Krim and actually the whole Ukraine things are getting a little clearer...

Anyhow most people in Germany are happy for the fall of the wall!

igorponger
05-04-2018, 10:08 PM
Weikert citation as follows:

--"Ja, wir respektieren die Regeln. Ja, wir haben sie geändert. Aber das hier ist größer als die Regeln.“

Yes, we respect Rules. Yes, we oversteped Rules. But it is beyond any Rules.

jawien
05-04-2018, 10:45 PM
The decision must have been consulted with other federations, right? "Luckily" Japan won the duel, by if it was the other way, there might have been some controversy ...

tropical
05-05-2018, 02:29 AM
So how about Hong Kong and China? They are apparently ONE country.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
05-05-2018, 03:54 AM
Japan is happy.
They killed two birds with a single stone