Choing - Fairplay?

aaahhhh, the "choing"...to cho or not to cho. I'm cool with it, especially after a great point, a winner. Personally, I don't do it, but if the opponents do, I really don't mind. But having said that, excessive "choing" after every single point does get on my nerves sometimes.

But the way Liu did it was subtle, so I think it's okay. I think in the spirit of the game, or any racquet games, the umpire will take action if a player shouted "cho", clenching the fist while looking straight at the opponents.

Only excessive. Not too much and I am okay.
I do chos after a great point tho.

P.s. Sorry Dan, late to read your mail yesterday X(
Then it is school today..

Choing can be annoying, but I don't think it's unfair. If anything the French team are the best at annoying cho's. During the team event they gave a standing ovation for every single point, including a serve error from the opponent. If you watch this match at 4:05 You can see that Gauzy doesn't even apologize for a clear netball, and the French dude on the far right stands up to applaude. It annoys me very much.

If u look at the vid in this thread at 2:34 Gauzy cho's loud for another clear netball. That is worse than Lin's cho's. But those from Lin are quite annoying as well. In the team event when his teammates were playing you could see him hanging in a chair as if he didn't care, but his cho's were still the loudest. If he keeps doing them like in this match against Gauzy, one of them will eventually break his back I'm afraid.

So I would call it bad sportsmanship rather than being unfair, but it comes from both sides, in this match at least. From Lin it is arguable if it's bad sportsmanship or not, from Gauzy it isn't arguable.

I think it is funny. I agree with everything that Wiwa says above, but it makes me laugh that these kids keep saying cho so loud. I know Wang Hao and Zhang Jike seem to use it as an intimidation thing where they are looking straight at the other player as they do it. These kids sound more like they are pumping themselves up. But when it is after every point that a player wins, it gets tiring to listen to as a spectator. I doubt it would bother me as a player though.

Carl Horowitz said:

I think it is funny. I agree with everything that Wiwa says above, but it makes me laugh that these kids keep saying cho so loud. I know Wang Hao and Zhang Jike seem to use it as an intimidation thing where they are looking straight at the other player as they do it. These kids sound more like they are pumping themselves up. But when it is after every point that a player wins, it gets tiring to listen to as a spectator. I doubt it would bother me as a player though.

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Zhang Jike did it worse when he was younger. I guess it just sounds more annoying when you have a teenagers' voice

I think you're making a big deal of this. I think it's worse when you shout out and look at your opponent as Wang Hao or Zhang Jike (as Carl Horowitz said above). But I don't think it's right when the French guy stands up to applaude due to the net ball. My coach had killed me, if i would have done that in my times of player. BY THE WAY, Simon Gauzy was chosen fair play player together with Ankita Das from India.

Romina said:

I think you're making a big deal of this. I think it's worse when you shout out and look at your opponent as Wang Hao or Zhang Jike (as Carl Horowitz said above). But I don't think it's right when the French guy stands up to applaude due to the net ball. My coach had killed me, if i would have done that in my times of player. BY THE WAY, Simon Gauzy was chosen fair play player together with Ankita Das from India.

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That is pretty stupid that he is chosen fair play player. Do they pick that by lottery?

WiWa said:

Choing can be annoying, but I don't think it's unfair. If anything the French team are the best at annoying cho's. During the team event they gave a standing ovation for every single point, including a serve error from the opponent. If you watch this match at 4:05 You can see that Gauzy doesn't even apologize for a clear netball, and the French dude on the far right stands up to applaude. It annoys me very much.

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I am totally disagree with you.. Did you see the score at 2:34 and 4:05 or not? This is a 1/4 final of a WJTTC single, it is THE competition for those young guys ! He clearly Cho"ed" cause of the score, if he woul be like a 6/7 score i am sure that he would not yelled like that ! Gauzy is really fair play in many time !
Maybe you don't realize how much this competition means to them, i don't see anything bad from gauzy there..

To answer the question, I think Choing is part of the game, self support is an important thing in this psychological sport, of course some are yelling high but anyway, it's psychological, the opponent has to stay concentrate on his game, great players stay focus in any time!

Bastoun said:

To answer the question, I think Choing is part of the game, self support is an important thing in this psychological sport, of course some are yelling high but anyway, it's psychological, the opponent has to stay concentrate on his game, great players stay focus in any time!

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I think Choing should be banned out by the youngones. If you let them Choing on this ages it get worst by the generation and you will get levels like in Womans tennis is this what we want?

Bastoun said:

I am totally disagree with you.. Did you see the score at 2:34 and 4:05 or not? This is a 1/4 final of a WJTTC single, it is THE competition for those young guys ! He clearly Cho"ed" cause of the score, if he woul be like a 6/7 score i am sure that he would not yelled like that ! Gauzy is really fair play in many time !
Maybe you don't realize how much this competition means to them, i don't see anything bad from gauzy there..

To answer the question, I think Choing is part of the game, self support is an important thing in this psychological sport, of course some are yelling high but anyway, it's psychological, the opponent has to stay concentrate on his game, great players stay focus in any time!

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It is understandable, but that doesn't mean it is good. Cho'ing at a lucky ball is never good. Even if it is matchpoint at 10-9 in the 7th.

To be clear, I don't think Gauzy is a bad guy because of this. Just those moments are not very nice of him, I believe you that for the rest he is a great guy. But the moment on itself is not what it should be.

rhonis said:

I think Choing should be banned out by the youngones. If you let them Choing on this ages it get worst by the generation and you will get levels like in Womans tennis is this what we want?

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The voice in woman tennis should be considered as grunting. Actually, it is very common among heavy weight lifter. Usually it is due to that how you translate the strength from the stomach to your body motion, and at the same time, breath out the air. Because it is a very common practice that breathing out the air instead of holding your mouth shut while lifting could help you produce much more power

But some how, the woman tennis player tends to have louder voice lol. You can heard this grunting in TT too, when two players are rallying hard. Especially Dimi has a clear grunting voice everytime he make some loop.

But for cho, it is kind of the mental part. unless the ittf draw a line in between what should be agressive cho and what should not practice, just like in NBA and NFL. Else, I don't think there is anyway to prevent it.

dici said:

The voice in woman tennis should be considered as grunting. Actually, it is very common among heavy weight lifter. Usually it is due to that how you translate the strength from the stomach to your body motion, and at the same time, breath out the air. Because it is a very common practice that breathing out the air instead of holding your mouth shut while lifting could help you produce much more power

But some how, the woman tennis player tends to have louder voice lol. You can heard this grunting in TT too, when two players are rallying hard. Especially Dimi has a clear grunting voice everytime he make some loop.

But for cho, it is kind of the mental part. unless the ittf draw a line in between what should be agressive cho and what should not practice, just like in NBA and NFL. Else, I don't think there is anyway to prevent it.

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Yes i understand and someone at my club said you get 15% more power when you grunt. Well i just uwaaahhh! when i walk around my backhand and hammer the ball inside out (impossible to block i think, it hurts when somebody plays it back). Never say Cho after a point, maybe say Yes! or Good! but thats only at the good shots. Never at fauls by the opponent or faul service.

dici - watch Zoran Primorac, how he is playing lately..
I like him as a player, but the sound he makes is really weird, its like 99 year old man is trying not to die, lol..

Anyways, funny video about women tennis, made me laugh

And. about that net that Gauzy did,.. I think..

Compare!
The one, was after 10:8, then 10:9 and he needed just one more point to make it 10:10!
It was not an easy rally, he was happy net or no net, that he got the point!
The other net he got in the next game at 3:1 .. compare these two!
In the second, no player from french bench clapped or stood up.. none!
It was completely different situation..
So it has nothing to do with not being fair or something like that..

About that yelling that Hongyuan was doing, because I cant call that thing as choing.. it was stupid pure yelling.. I didnt like it..
Not a bit.
It was much exaggerated and I think he did it by purpose, maybe his coach told him to do.. or what, I dont know, but certainly first 2 games or so he didnt do it.
So he doesnt have to do it.
It was just too much..

That is my opinion

Michal_Z said:

dici - watch Zoran Primorac, how he is playing lately..
I like him as a player, but the sound he makes is really weird, its like 99 year old man is trying not to die, lol..

Anyways, funny video about women tennis, made me laugh

And. about that net that Gauzy did,.. I think..

Compare!
The one, was after 10:8, then 10:9 and he needed just one more point to make it 10:10!
It was not an easy rally, he was happy net or no net, that he got the point!
The other net he got in the next game at 3:1 .. compare these two!
In the second, no player from french bench clapped or stood up.. none!
It was completely different situation..
So it has nothing to do with not being fair or something like that..

About that yelling that Hongyuan was doing, because I cant call that thing as choing.. it was stupid pure yelling.. I didnt like it..
Not a bit.
It was much exaggerated and I think he did it by purpose, maybe his coach told him to do.. or what, I dont know, but certainly first 2 games or so he didnt do it.
So he doesnt have to do it.
It was just too much..

That is my opinion

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It was GAOyuan with the cho-ing And cho-ing is never unfair There is a difference between fair (according to rules) and nice Or is there a rule against cho-ing or it falls under distracting the opponent maybe? Anyways cho-ing after a lucky ball is never nice, regardless the score and importance of the point.

WiWa said:

Choing can be annoying, but I don't think it's unfair. If anything the French team are the best at annoying cho's. During the team event they gave a standing ovation for every single point, including a serve error from the opponent. If you watch this match at 4:05 You can see that Gauzy doesn't even apologize for a clear netball, and the French dude on the far right stands up to applaude. It annoys me very much.

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Why on earth should a player be expected to say sorry for every time he has a bit luck?

If all his focus was on remembering such a little thing as saying "sorry" for a lucky shot, then how could he ever hit the big ones?

Simon Gauzy is a great player, and I don't think he intends to be unfair to his opponent.

Anders said:

Why on earth should a player be expected to say sorry for every time he has a bit luck?

If all his focus was on remembering such a little thing as saying "sorry" for a lucky shot, then how could he ever hit the big ones?

Simon Gauzy is a great player, and I don't think he intends to be unfair to his opponent.

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If the player needed focus to say sorry, he wouldn't even be close to national level of play.
The point is that you want to make your points, either by forcing one yourself or by having your opponent make a mistake. Net or edge balls are often free points where you get a point in a different way than you intended. As a results, in table tennis everywhere in the world people say sorry if they get a point that is not as much acquired by skill or lack of skill from the opponent as it is by having luck.

Once again I repeat: Gauzy is a great player, I have no doubt about that. Once again I say: unfair is different from bad sportsmanship. Celebrating a point that wasn't won by skill but by luck is bad sportsmanship in my opinion.

Every player has the right to Cho after their point. Being obnoxious about it as LGY can get is just a part of the game. Losing focus because of something that happens in between points is a sign of poor mental toughness. I'm not saying that everyone should go out and Cho, but here's some food for thought. The world chooses to use a word "Cho" which is a slang term from the Chinese languages. While meaning 'ball' it's different in Cantonese and more translates to great ball or good shot. What pisses me off more than any other thing about the word "Cho" is that EVERYONE in the world chooses to use that word as a positive announcement to one's point. It is however a negative connotation because it's a Chinese slang term. It is the same as saying "China will always be at the top of this game." The sport was created and founded in Europe/U.S. depending on how one looks at the history of TT. China has some background history as well having played similar games as well, but the creation of the sport itself was from Europe's ITTF and the U.S.'s APPA.

I really hate to see european players and non Mandarin/Cantonese speakers saying the word Cho because it is basically admitting defeat to the Chinese as the standard of this sport. Don't get me wrong. They ARE the standard of this sport to grow to and strive for as far as technique, tactics, and winning goes; but to continue using their slang term for OUR sport is really really disappointing. It's their National Sport I get it, but if you really love this sport why resort to their customs and their growth when you can do the same with your own language.

I've heard WLQ and WH say "come on," rather than or after a Cho so why can't we all do the same. Yiyong Fan, a Chinese immigrant, chooses to say "Yes" rather than Cho in our tournaments and I really respect him for that. As someone trained and raised in China, to come over to the U.S. and learn our language he understands the necessity to be loyal to one's country. He's an American and he respects us by saying yes. To those of you who Cho, or enjoy the Cho-ing of others think more about your country's growth rather than the testament of China's.