Want to be smart about feeding my EJ

AlBaron · May 21, 2018

Hello gang,

I think my game is a pretty decent balance of off vs def. But I am working on transitioning to being a more offensive player, concentrating on being able to consistently attack/loop chops/short chops being used against me by defense-oriented opponents.

I'm currently playing with the YSE with Mark V on both sides, and looking to move up in the speed department.
I'm exploring upgrades on the Rubber side (considering Xiom Vega Intro/Pro and also Rakza 7/7 soft).
But, as you may very well know, EJ attacks you from different angles. Last night I thought "I don't have a backup blade????"
Of course, I woke up this morning thinking that I also need to explore adding another blade to my arsenal, something a little faster than my YSE.
So now I'm thinking PowerWood vs Primorac vs Korbel vs something else?

What do you guys think?

Alex

JST · May 21, 2018

Hi Alex, few comments as I was using 3 of the blades in question. I was playing with Primorac for most of my "career" before I left the game and then I was using it for few months last summer when I came back (used H3neo on FH and Rozena on BH). Then I was looking for something with more feel and control and I've moved to YSE (with Yasaka Rising Dragon on FH and Rakza 7 Soft on BH). Great combination which gave me slightly more spin and control then my Primorac set-up and I plaid most of the season with it (with overall score like 120:2). Finally few months ago I felt already back in the training rhythm and technique and I wanted something faster, hence moved to Tibhar Stratus Powerwood (keeping the same rubber combination as with YSE = YRD on FH and YR7soft on BH).

My outcomes after spending at least 2 months with each set-up (training/match at least twice a week): Primorac is only hair faster then YSE (if at all - probably depends on rubbers and technique more then comes from the wood in my opinion) while YSE has better feel for me. TSPW is visibly faster then both Primo and YSE and with my rubbers it has lower throw then YSE. In other words I would recommend to upgrade only if you are having good technique and you are ready to adjust the angle of the racket on both FH and BH strokes when moving to it. To me all three set-ups have enough power to finish any offensive point in sub-2000 USATT game so it's rather personal preference. When it comes to control and feel I would stay with YSE but I'm fine with TSPW now because I wanted to move towards more offensive game (being allround player by nature since my teens) and it helps me to stay focused on the offensive faster topsin strokes from both sides (rather then safe returning of the ball from mid-distance which is more fun for me with YSE).

Hope this helps.

Ilia Minkin · May 21, 2018

If you need a backup blade (i.e. the setup you use in case your main one is damaged), it is best to have exactly the same racket, to the point of having the blade of the same weight.

Ranger-man · May 21, 2018

If you are looking to change/upgrade your setup then maybe you want to wait on a backup blade for now. As Ilia Minkin said your backup needs to be the same setup as your main, or very, very, very, very, very, very, (can never have enough 'verys' here

) close to your main setup.

AlBaron · May 21, 2018

Ranger-man said:
If you are looking to change/upgrade your setup then maybe you want to wait on a backup blade for now. As Ilia Minkin said your backup needs to be the same setup as your main, or very, very, very, very, very, very, (can never have enough 'verys' here ) close to your main setup.

Ok, you guys caught me. "Backup" blade was just an excuse. I want a second blade.

AlBaron · May 21, 2018

JST said:
Hi Alex, few comments as I was using 3 of the blades in question. I was playing with Primorac for most of my "career" before I left the game and then I was using it for few months last summer when I came back (used H3neo on FH and Rozena on BH). Then I was looking for something with more feel and control and I've moved to YSE (with Yasaka Rising Dragon on FH and Rakza 7 Soft on BH). Great combination which gave me slightly more spin and control then my Primorac set-up and I plaid most of the season with it (with overall score like 120:2). Finally few months ago I felt already back in the training rhythm and technique and I wanted something faster, hence moved to Tibhar Stratus Powerwood (keeping the same rubber combination as with YSE = YRD on FH and YR7soft on BH).

My outcomes after spending at least 2 months with each set-up (training/match at least twice a week): Primorac is only hair faster then YSE (if at all - probably depends on rubbers and technique more then comes from the wood in my opinion) while YSE has better feel for me. TSPW is visibly faster then both Primo and YSE and with my rubbers it has lower throw then YSE. In other words I would recommend to upgrade only if you are having good technique and you are ready to adjust the angle of the racket on both FH and BH strokes when moving to it. To me all three set-ups have enough power to finish any offensive point in sub-2000 USATT game so it's rather personal preference. When it comes to control and feel I would stay with YSE but I'm fine with TSPW now because I wanted to move towards more offensive game (being allround player by nature since my teens) and it helps me to stay focused on the offensive faster topsin strokes from both sides (rather then safe returning of the ball from mid-distance which is more fun for me with YSE).

Hope this helps.

JST, a lot in your reply hits very very very close to home.
You are saying the Primorac and YSE are too close together, and therefore probably not worth the move. But TSPW is noticeably faster and different enough to be considered. What about Korbel?

Alex

Lightzy · May 21, 2018

If you wanna EJ intelligently:

Try ali-express and buy radically different blades for low prices.
You already have a slow 5ply wood one, so get a really fast carbon one, get one with an outer koto ply that's a bit harder and crisper..
That way maybe you'll feel that you've covered all bases when it comes to equipment and bring the EJ to conclusion

Same for rubbers. Get AK47 Yellow for a fast cheap one, get a tacky one, something in the middle

For the price of one good euro rubber you could have a collection of chinese ones to test, and same for blades :>

If that's not up your creek then I guess Vega Pro is a rubber you can't go wrong with and will match amazingly well with the YSE you have

yogi_bear · May 21, 2018

I would go with Primorac with Vega Pro.

perham · May 21, 2018

I would say just change the rubbers to Rhyzers and you would see plenty of change in speed, but then again, EJ is a virus not to be cured only by advice.

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usualsuspect · May 21, 2018

IMHO, YEO (extra offensive) or YES (extra special) are both viable options for someone moving from YSE. If you want a faster 5-ply allwood, go with YEO. If you want to transition to a solid 7-ply allwood, go with YES. Both YEO and YES have very good feeling and control. Obviously, YES is a bit heavier and faster than YEO, since it's 7-ply. I personally recommend YES, because YEO isn't too different from YSE if you want some variety. But if you are not used to playing with a 7-ply, it'll take you some time to get used to it. I had some trouble keeping my loops on the table when I first moved from 5-ply allwood to 7-ply allwood, but now I love my YES.

JST · May 21, 2018

AlBaron said:
What about Korbel?

I have never plaid with Korbel longer then 5 minutes so I can only say that it's kind of logical progress from Primo in terms of similar feel and faster/more powerful response to the ball. Note that all 3 blades (Bfly Primorac OFF-, Bfly Korbel OFF and Tibhar Stratus Powerwood OFF- but rather slower OFF) are as far as I know the same 5-ply composition (Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba) so there won't be big differences in terms of vibrations/feel/stiffness, just slightly slower or faster outcome (based on the width of each layer).

Lightzy said:
If you wanna EJ intelligently: Try ali-express and buy radically different blades for low prices.
You already have a slow 5ply wood one, so get a really fast carbon one, get one with an outer koto ply that's a bit harder and crisper..
That way maybe you'll feel that you've covered all bases when it comes to equipment and bring the EJ to conclusion
Same for rubbers. Get AK47 Yellow for a fast cheap one, get a tacky one, something in the middle

For the price of one good euro rubber you could have a collection of chinese ones to test, and same for blades

This is very good point and I will add one more story of mine (without being asked

: I've thought that I will maintain focus on the game/tactics/technique/physical preparation itself but I couldn't resist EJ virus attacks over past 12 months and now I admit that trying new materials is at least 30% of fun for me (especially in between the seasons May-August when there are basically no leagues or tournaments in my country - probably because all people run outside to play tennis and soccer

. So I did quite a research on this and other forums (+ TTDB etc.), went to Aliexpress and selected few blades and rubbers from Yinhe/DHS/Sanwei/729 to experiment with. I've always used all wood baldes since 90s but after reading and looking on some people in my local league I selected few cheap outer and inner ALC(-like) blades + rubbers like Palio AK47, Friendhip Battle, Palio Big Dipper and started to test. It's still quite soon for bigger conclusions but there are some notes which might give you some ideas where to go with your EJ journey:

I dropped going with "old" major brands like Butterfly and Stiga for now. They are good, they were pioneers 30 years ago and still are to certain extend with new materials like ALC/ZLC/glass/heat/cold but if you get into hands blades from Yasaka/Yinhe/DHS and others you will see that manufacturing quality and consistency starts to match in the fraction of price (typically 20-30%). So I might come back to these brands in the end once I will know what kind of composition/characteristics I'm looking for to get the "final" masterpiece (which will cost me 100-300$) but not now (and very likely never
Today simply every brand have such a pieces like "5-wood OFF- for beginners/intermediate players", "5 and 7-ply wood OFF for advanced" and "Viscaria/TBS/TB ALC outer composite clone for really advanced" (+ few more) and it's just about to find the direction and then trying 4 or 5 of such woods to fine-tune.
It obviously costs a lot of time and money. There are literally billions of combinations if you would like to try all rubbers and woods produced today and even if you limit it to "well known" pieces you have like 2-5 rubbers and 2-5 blades from 5-10 manufacturers = incredible space to try, probably not worth for one TT life By doing it "smarter" I understand going with certain directions with 5 set-ups a year maximum when you really can spend 30+ hours with each of them, test it in real match under stress and then go to next step in terms of speed and composition without going in circles or doing too big jumps (like from DEF blade with long pips to OFF+ composite blade with T05s).
If you take some Chinese "clones" you can have such set-up at 50-100$ each instead 100-300$ if you would go with Stiga/Butterfly/Nittaku set-up from US retail. If you have that money (and you are willing to suffer then with discomfort of adjusting your technique to it and probably losing some matches because of it) and EJing makes you happy (like some of us) then definitely go for it.
One big condition from my perspective: you need to have very good baseline in terms of skills and technique otherwise you might be easily heading to the wall. Firstly you need to be able analyze how set-up works for you ("I feel better" or "I won two matches tonight" aren't enough, it's more about trying different situations, taking videos and looking how blade performance in your hand interacts with speed of your feet, length of your swing, how it matches your tactics and strategy in offensive/allround/defensive style against different opponents etc.) and secondly you need to be able to adjust your short and offensive game to it quickly and hopefully without any harmful side effects (this including real injury caused by e.g. too heavy paddle and your poor physical condition but also harm to your muscle memory and developing bad habits).
Finally one example: after these 3 set-ups I've described in my original post I'm now testing Yinhe V14 with Palio AK47 yellow and blue (so theoretically very different set-up from all-wood OFF-/OFF blades) and in case I will like harder outer ply (koto) and composite I can go to options like Yinhe V14 PRO, Sanwei F1/F3/F3 PRO, DHS PG5/FB2/H301... just finding how fast, how stiff, how reactive the composition should be (all of them in 30-60$ range). Yinhe V14 is Bfly TB ALC clone, Palio AK47 have some attributes reminding eur/jp non-tacky tensor rubbers and all that you get for 20% of price of Bfly TB ALC + two T05 sheets. Not the same but it gives you the direction without throwing lot of money into the hobby. If carbon blades won't be for me then there are plenty of 5 and 7 ply wood compositions to try (did I mention I have Bfly Mazunov at home from my teens?

AlBaron · May 22, 2018

Folks,
thank for all your responses, makes for a very interesting read. I've decided to proceed with the following:
1. I do have a Sanwei M8 with 729 from aliexpress, but I will stay away from purchasing Chinese blades/rubbers for now. They are just too many unknowns for me at this point. I understand that there is this whole "this is a clone of that" system, but I guess I'm too lazy to properly research and learn it.
2. I'm going to continue working the "slow blade/fast rubbers and fast blade/slow rubbers" approach. I just bought a Korbel (Japanese version) and will probably move the Mark Vs on it, and will get either Vega Pro or Rakza 7/7 soft on my YSE.

What do you guys think?

Alex

JST · May 22, 2018

AlBaron said:
Folks,
thank for all your responses, makes for a very interesting read. I've decided to proceed with the following:
1. I do have a Sanwei M8 with 729 from aliexpress, but I will stay away from purchasing Chinese blades/rubbers for now. They are just too many unknowns for me at this point. I understand that there is this whole "this is a clone of that" system, but I guess I'm too lazy to properly research and learn it.
2. I'm going to continue working the "slow blade/fast rubbers and fast blade/slow rubbers" approach. I just bought a Korbel (Japanese version) and will probably move the Mark Vs on it, and will get either Vega Pro or Rakza 7/7 soft on my YSE.

What do you guys think?

Alex

Yes, this is one possible way

I guess EJ virus will strike again in few months so you will see at that point... what is suggested in general is to change only one parameter at the time so e.g. change blade and keep rubbers (at least for 10-20 hours to get some feeling about what new blade does differently and if that is the way you want to go) and then change the rubbers while keeping the blade. Good luck!

AlBaron · May 22, 2018

JST said:
Yes, this is one possible way I guess EJ virus will strike again in few months so you will see at that point...

I welcome the challenge!

AlBaron · May 25, 2018

Folks,
I think I'm a little stuck here. Can't quite make a call on Vega Pro vs Vega Europe, and Rakza 7 vs Rakza 7 soft.
Would I be completely off base if I were to get one of each and just try them all on BH and FH?
Or would it be too much emphasis on the equipment and derail my development progress?

Alex

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hillwalker · May 25, 2018

Lightzy said:
If you wanna EJ intelligently: Try ali-express and buy radically different blades for low prices.

I was impressed by the AliExpress app actually (I just bought some Palio rubbers), it's a lot smoother and more modern than I expected. Easy to sort through a bunch of reviews and track your orders. I'm definitely buying any Chinese brands this way from now on.

yogi_bear · May 25, 2018

Go with vega pro, more spin and power.

darucla · May 25, 2018

Sticking with the Yasaka blade and moving to Rakza 7 rubber is logical. Although, the difference between any number of tensor rubbers is less than the difference between R7 and Mk V. But you should find that the Yasaka combination gives you more spin and speed with minimal requirement to change technique.

If you really want to EJ radically, get a cheap ALC clone, and put the old Mk V on it for messing about. I was surprised at how well that worked for me recently. (but keep up with the Yasaka blade for competition).

Want to be smart about feeding my EJ

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